Radar Detector - CEG Archives

to answer your question, to my knowledge there is nothing that will detect an emergency vehicle; just the radar they emit. I have V1 and love it.

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
to answer your question, to my knowledge there is nothing that will detect an emergency vehicle; just the radar they emit. I have V1 and love it.

ditto. You wont be dissappointed with a V1.

Please for the love of god dont' buy a cheapy, nothing I hate more than my V1 actually detecting a cheap radar detector that actually EMITS radar... from some dude in a minivan or a truck.

Once had a truck behind me in a traffic jam, his cheap radar detector that I could see on his dash was making my V1 go almost full signal.

I wrote up a how-to install a V1 in your contour as well: http://www.frankensteincs.com/contour

one thing to keep in mind is that no radar detector is perfect.

they'll increase your chances of detecting the cops, but that
doesn't mean you'll always get them.

if they find a perfect spot behind a curve/hill/bridge, you can be
busted or if they use instant on at night, you can be busted
no matter what detector you have.
(both happened to me and I have a V1)

all that said, a good detector is very useful, just you should
know what to expect.
I'd say a good detector might half the number of your tickets,
but it won't eliminate them completely.
on the other hand (in my experience) cops tend to be more stern
if they see that you have one. practice stashing it under the seat
in 0.1 seconds

T.

Originally posted by Steve Benthal Jr.:
I was walking through best buy and I saw radar detectors. the guy there that was supposed to help out didn't know what he was talking about so I decided to ask you guys. Is there a radar detector that'll detect a cop... i mean... emergency vehicle without the radar gun hitting your car? I know the Cobra is a good choice. but which cobra? How do I know that the radar detector will pick up a radar over a hill? I would get false alarms than none at all... Thanks for any help.

Steve

The thing you have to remember is that a radar detector does exactly what it's name implies: it detects radar, not cops. I can't tell you how many times i've passed a cop and had someone in the back say "Why didnt ur radar pick him up?"

I agree, if u are going to get one, get a good one like the valentine 1 or the escort passport 8500. If you waste your money on some $50 one from best buy, it will probly pick up the radar signal after you see the cop yourself, rendering it completly useless.

I have the passport 8500 and I absolutely love it. Like the V1( I think) you can program out the X band in city mode. My old cobra had X band going off constantly!! Its nice to have , and has saved me numerous times. I also swear the 8500 has picked up cops from over a mile away, and not on a straightaway, its crazy. I LOVE IT!!!!

How much is a really good Radar cost?

betweeb $250 and $350, I think both the V-1 and passport 8500's are about $300 depending where u get it. Check ebay for a good deal on one.

Get a V-1

Thanks guys. I'll check out prices on those two and see what i can find

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
to answer your question, to my knowledge there is nothing that will detect an emergency vehicle; just the radar they emit. I have V1 and love it.

amen - if you look in my sig you'll see the V1 - it is priceless.

But just remember when you get it to really read the book and learn the features and how to understand what is going on, otherwise it can be overwhelming.

What kind of features does it have

Sorry for the Hijack

Originally posted by Steve Benthal Jr.:
Is there a radar detector that'll detect a cop... i mean... emergency vehicle without the radar gun hitting your car?

Yes. Some radar detectors also have a saftey warning system built into them as well. they will display up to 61 different messages (only if that message is being broadcast) for example: driving down the road.... utility crew up ahead... warning tone goes off and utility crew ahead flashes on the lcd panel. Also sometime firetrucks will set it off w/ an "emergency vehicle" message. Also will alert of road construction, railroad crossings, ect. But the drawback is that if these alerts are not being broadcast they will not be picked up. To my knowledge this is not in all areas yet though and I very rarely get a message and if I do it is usually a utility crew or those highway message boards that bring up a saftey message. Here's a link to one similar to mine that I'm pretty sure will answer that part of your question. clicky!!
And clicky!

Originally posted by tiv:
I'd say a good detector might half the number of your tickets, but it won't eliminate them completely.

So far, its eliminated my tickets :P But I've done alot of research on radar, and its quirks.

For example, I'm aware of instant-on (Valentine1's website and FAQ is a GREAT resource btw) and usually won't speed if there are no "bait" vehicles out in front of me

If its a wide open road and a long straightaway, I'll usually get on it a bit, but I'll back off in the curves if there's nobody in front of me. So far, everytime I've had a "bait" vehicle some distance ahead of me the cop always hits them with the instant on, allowing me to detect it, and slow down, before its my turn.

And the range of the V1 is just incredable. I'll pick up a cop a good mile away, around a curve, and down a hill in the middle of the woods. So far, its been MORE than worth its higher cost!

My advice is don't waste your money on one! I see far too many people that have them and it makes little to no difference. Remember a radar detector only picks up the radio waves sent out by police radar units which are bouncing off other vehicles, which are always the larger and closest target. So in simple terms, the Officer must leave the radar unit on, and almost all police radars have a on/off button, which means your radar detector won't know what is going on until it's too late. And let's not even discuss getting around the laser! Just some friendly advice from someone who knows;-)

Can sorta empathize with that. I have gotten ONE speeding ticket in the past 4 years (for as long as I've owned this car) and that's when I was late for work, was speeding down this almost empty freeway, and didn't see the cop.

I have not gotten a single ticket since. How? By knowing when to speed and when NOT to. As others said, leave some "bait" cars in front and behind you. Don't hang in left lane by yourself and limit yourself to 15 above the general flow of traffic. Don't speed by much until you're near a pack of cars, and so on.

It may not be as much fun, but you can spend that $250+ elsewhere.

Originally posted by 98SVT_LEO:
My advice is don't waste your money on one!

To each his own.

Mine has saved me a number of times, specifically when passing. I detected an officers radar and waited to pass some cars instead of passing and getting busted.

I dont drive without my V1 anymore.

Whether you need a radar detector or not depends on your driving habits.

Originally posted by 98SVT_LEO:
My advice is don't waste your money on one! I see far too many people that have them and it makes little to no difference. Remember a radar detector only picks up the radio waves sent out by police radar units which are bouncing off other vehicles, which are always the larger and closest target. So in simple terms, the Officer must leave the radar unit on, and almost all police radars have a on/off button, which means your radar detector won't know what is going on until it's too late. And let's not even discuss getting around the laser! Just some friendly advice from someone who knows;-)

There's a reason that people are still willing to pay $400 for a V1 even after all these years. You won't be ticket-proof, but it goes a long way in helping you avoid them. No, it won't detect cruisers that don't have their radar guns on, and that's why speeding alone is risker than a pack. However, it is sensitive enough to pick up other cars that have been radar'ed, and in enough time to make any necessary adjustments to your speed.

I've had my V1 for five years and not coincidentally I've never had a speeding ticket even though I frequently drive at 80 (safely of course).

I have a Cobra...it's pretty old. One time it only went off when I was right beside a cop...

Originally posted by rkneeshaw:

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
I wrote up a how-to install a V1 in your contour as well: http://www.frankensteincs.com/contour

Great article! I just completed modding my car with such an operation (sadly without a Valentine for I am poor) and it looks and works great! I just went an extra step and wired it so that the left light switch turns on/off the detector and the right switch turns on both lights It's so pretty now.

As it has been said before, if a cop sees the radar detector, they are less likely to let you off with a warning. But if you live in an area like Miami-Dade county, where county officers don't have dash mounted radars or lasers and have a speed judgement certification(which usually doesn't hold up to well in court), a radar detector will do you little to no good at all. However, State Troopers don't always use rader, they'll sometimes use NASCAR, which is where they time you from one line to the next and determine your speed from and aircraft flying overhead, and on the other side of the hill, they have like 14 troopers sitting there waiting for you. But trooper cars usually run they're dash mounted radars constantly, i do know of a camaro trooper who uses his Instant-on a lot. Radar detectes are great on expressways and such, but a not very useful in big metropolitain cities like Miami, where very very few of the cops you pass will have dash-mounted radars. Sorry for the long post, but just thought i'd drop my $.02 in.

Robert

Originally posted by CincySVT:
I have the passport 8500 and I absolutely love it. Like the V1( I think) you can program out the X band in city mode. My old cobra had X band going off constantly!! Its nice to have , and has saved me numerous times. I also swear the 8500 has picked up cops from over a mile away, and not on a straightaway, its crazy. I LOVE IT!!!!

i have an 8500 too. agree its a great detector and has saved my butt and my paycheck a number of times. very versitile as well.

It's VASCAR not NASCAR that they use from airplanes.

Also, there is a cb radio that can detect state patrol cars (within 6 miles or so supposedly) because the cars are equipped with radio signal repeaters because they have to travel so far from land antennas sometimes.

Anyways, I'm getting the 8500. Check the GB section, only $245 shipped.

I just got a Beltronics Vector 995. $260 @ Circuit City. Works great. Hardly any false alarms. Has the safety warning option but it has yet to go off. You can set it up with a lot of diffrent programs. Drove from NY to NC picked up everything even laser and I had plenty of warning. It also is stealth to radar detector detectors.

The Bel 995 would be my second choice behind the escort passport 8500. Both are good detectors, the 8500 is just a step better. Personally I would love to see a mix of the 8500 and the V1, something with the features and the very few false alarms of the 8500 with the arrows of the V1.

Why are you guys looking for a detector with less false alarms?!? Thats just retarded!

There's no way a detector will EVER be able to differentiate between a police radar signal, and a door radar signal, except maybe by strength of signal. But my whole point is, if it has less false alarms, then its not as sensitive, and when your on the freeway at higher speeds, you need as much sensitivity as possible. Less sensitivity = less notice = busted = worthless detector.

To get a detector because it has "less false alarms" is screwing yourself.

Originally posted by rkneeshaw:

To get a detector because it has "less false alarms" is screwing yourself.

I've always wondered why people never figured this out...

Originally posted by mbSVT:

Originally posted by rkneeshaw:

To get a detector because it has "less false alarms" is screwing yourself.

I've always wondered why people never figured this out...

Because it's WRONG. The 8500 has been rated by many places as having less false alarms than any other detectors BUT still having the best range out of almost all of them (comparable with V1).
I (like you) am no expert on radar, so I can't give a good explanation why, but I do realize that police radar and the things that give false alarms (other detectors,etc.) use different frequencies usually. Also, the 8500 is still going to alert on automatic door openers BUT probably alert less on them then some other detectors AND alert A LOT less on cheap detectors that are emitting radar.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
It's VASCAR not NASCAR that they use from airplanes. Also, there is a cb radio that can detect state patrol cars (within 6 miles or so supposedly) because the cars are equipped with radio signal repeaters because they have to travel so far from land antennas sometimes.

Anyways, I'm getting the 8500. Check the GB section, only $245 shipped.

It's a scanner, not CB radio. Uniden BearTracker BCT-7 (replaced by BCT-8) to be exact.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by mbSVT:

Originally posted by rkneeshaw:

To get a detector because it has "less false alarms" is screwing yourself.

I've always wondered why people never figured this out...

Because it's WRONG. The 8500 has been rated by many places as having less false alarms than any other detectors BUT still having the best range out of almost all of them (comparable with V1).
I (like you) am no expert on radar, so I can't give a good explanation why, but I do realize that police radar and the things that give false alarms (other detectors,etc.) use different frequencies usually. Also, the 8500 is still going to alert on automatic door openers BUT probably alert less on them then some other detectors AND alert A LOT less on cheap detectors that are emitting radar.

Here's the thing... the V1 does have less false alarms than others. I'm sure that the 8500 does too. No denying that... it has to do with the signal processing.

However, noone's debating whether or not your detector has less falses than another... read the quote again... what I said was I've never understood why people base their decision on which brand has the least false alarms!!! That's the LAST thing that you should be worrying about... i can't tell you how many times i've heard people say, "well i dont want the thing going off all the time"... THATS THE POINT!!

I'm hardly an expert on radar, but given that my dad was a cop and I've grown up on BOTH ends of the radar gun, I'd like to think I know a bit...

Originally posted by mbSVT:

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by mbSVT:

Originally posted by rkneeshaw:

To get a detector because it has "less false alarms" is screwing yourself.

I've always wondered why people never figured this out...

Because it's WRONG. The 8500 has been rated by many places as having less false alarms than any other detectors BUT still having the best range out of almost all of them (comparable with V1).
I (like you) am no expert on radar, so I can't give a good explanation why, but I do realize that police radar and the things that give false alarms (other detectors,etc.) use different frequencies usually. Also, the 8500 is still going to alert on automatic door openers BUT probably alert less on them then some other detectors AND alert A LOT less on cheap detectors that are emitting radar.

Here's the thing... the V1 does have less false alarms than others. I'm sure that the 8500 does too. No denying that... it has to do with the signal processing.

However, noone's debating whether or not your detector has less falses than another... read the quote again... what I said was I've never understood why people base their decision on which brand has the least false alarms!!! That's the LAST thing that you should be worrying about... i can't tell you how many times i've heard people say, "well i dont want the thing going off all the time"... THATS THE POINT!!

I'm hardly an expert on radar, but given that my dad was a cop and I've grown up on BOTH ends of the radar gun, I'd like to think I know a bit...

The V1 actually has a good bit of false alarms from what I hear. Probably less than some of the lower end models but more than some of the higher end models like the bel 995 and the 8500.

I didn't see anyone in this thread basing their decision on false alarms. I agree it would be stupid to base the decision soley on that. BUT you really don't want it going off all the time. Why? Because if it is going on 24/7 you'll either just stop using it or just ignore it. You want something that filters out the false signals so that the detector is actually useful. If it was going off all the time, why even use it??? Of course you want a detector that does go off when it should, so you don't want to buy a cheap detector because it gets less false alarms, because it probably does not have a good range BUT a high end model that gets less false alarms but still has good range is worth it.

So really, false alarms is a main concern you should be worried about, other wise your detector is useless. You might as well put just some toy in your car that beeps all the time if you don't care about false alarms and actually think a detector that gives tons of false alarms is worth a crap. Of course you have to combine amount of false alarms with range,etc. to choose a good detector.

And cops are not experts on radar either, they just know how to use the radar gun. So you know a little bit about how to use a radar gun.

You're missing the point. There is no way a detector can tell if a radar signal is a cop or not, it just can't. Radar is just an electromagnetic wave on a certain frequency, it doesnt have a protocol encoded in it for communication that a radar detector can use to tell if its a cop or a door. All it can do is scan a range of frequencies that the FCC has said radar can work on, and if it detects a signal within that frequency range, it will warn you, and show you the strength of that signal, because that's radar.

A radar gun sends out a signal, and listens for the return of that signal bouncing off an object, then repeats this a fraction of a second later, compares the time it took for each signal to "echo" back and determines the speed of that object. There is nothing in that signal that is different than what automatic doors and security systems use.

Its like a wave in a pool. If you make a wave with your hand, or a boat makes a wave, there's no way to tell the difference, its just a wave (granted the wave would be larger with a boat, as a radar signal is stronger from cops due to the range they require, and is hte reason we can pick up police radar with greater range than doors and security systems).

If you have a radar detector that doesnt give you false alarms, then it is not as sensitive as the higher end detectors, and therefore is inferior. If I'm on the freeway, I want as much notice and sensitivity as possible.

Unless you live in an area that uses X band radar frequently(Iowa, for example), you can pretty much dismiss X band alerts.

The local PD in my town uses K and Ka and occasionally lidar. The same goes for the Sheriffs department and State Police, which are also using aircraft on certain stretches of roadway, which is where the scanner comes in handy. In addition, I have encountered a NM Commercial Vehicle enforcement officer using lidar as well.

Originally posted by rkneeshaw:

If you have a radar detector that doesnt give you false alarms, then it is not as sensitive as the higher end detectors, and therefore is inferior. If I'm on the freeway, I want as much notice and sensitivity as possible.

Higher end units false less because they have better technology. When they sense a signal, some of them will desensitize and see if it's still a true signal. Then if it senses the radar signal, the detector will then alert you. And lower end units are so poorly designed that they actually emit radar waves and set off other radar detectors. That, is not a good thing.

Bank and supermarket doors aim their signal at a 45* angle to the ground to detect people's presence. A true cop radar will be aimed on the roadway to clock cars. I want a radar dectector that can filter out the errant junk and give me what it believes is a real threat.

In high school, my friend bought the cheapest BEL around. That think falsed so much that he started ignoring it. It's like crying wolf.

Originally posted by TommySVT:

In high school, my friend bought the cheapest BEL around. That think falsed so much that he started ignoring it. It's like crying wolf.

Finally, someone isn't a complete retard on these forums.

Though if ya'll think false alarms=good detector. Then go ahead and buy a detector that constantly goes off. That will really help you. You'll never know what is real and what isn't. My 8500 falses plenty, but still less than other detectors. And still better than other detectors. Or I guess it really isn't better because it isn't falsing all the time.

You're still not getting it.

Basicly you're saying that unless your detector detects a signal that is pointed directly at it, you want it to not tell you anything. That's silly because if a cop is sitting around a corner, and hitting traffic in front of you, you're basicly asking the detector to ignore it. And trust me, if the cop is pointing his radar at your car, your done anyway, making the detector useless.

My wave in a pool analogy is the best I can give you. If you make a wave with your hand, its still a wave. If you're around the corner from that wave, you still see the wave, although it is weaker. If a ball fell in the pool and made that wave, you couldn't tell, its still just a wave. Anything could have created it, you can never tell because all waves are simply waves of water, with no identifying marks or signs.

Same thing with radar and detectors. If it senses a signal, it should bark, because that signal may be faint, but it could be from a cop that is sitting around a corner, and its had to reflect off of other cars and objects before it gets to you, but nonetheless, its a cop's radar signal. To ask a detector to differentiate between that signal and a doors signal that is pointed at the ground and reflecting towards you, is the same as asking you to tell what caused a wave in a pool by looking at just the wave; thats impossible, its just a wave! There's no identifying mark on that wave. The only way you could possibly tell anything is by the strength of that wave, and it would still be a guess!

Radar isn't all that complicated. Its just a wave. It doesnt carry any data, doesnt have any protocol, its simply a wave. Since doors create the same "waves" as cops radar guns (in the same band, either X, K, or Ka) there is not a way that circuitry can be used to filter out false alarms.

Thinking less false alarms makes it a better detector is a false understanding.

Originally posted by TommySVT:

Bank and supermarket doors aim their signal at a 45* angle to the ground to detect people's presence. A true cop radar will be aimed on the roadway to clock cars. I want a radar dectector that can filter out the errant junk and give me what it believes is a real threat.

And I want a radar detector which detects all kinds of reflected signals which bounced off other people's cars and terrain objects. I want no radar detector which detects only the strong, straight signal aimed at my car. Guess why.

If you're 2 mi away from the partol car, all you can catch is a weak, probably several times reflected and distorted signal.
That is exactly what I want to pick up.

Tiv

I will admit that yes, if a detector is always going off, then it makes you less likely to notice it when a cop is really ahead. But I'll take the sensitivity anyday above a detector that doesnt tell me there's a cop until the last minute when his signal stregth is nearly 100%. By then its usually too late.

I'll also note that I've never seen a cop use X band radar ever anymore. I safely ignore X band. K band is shared between a majority of cops and automatic doors (at least in Michigan) and Ka band has so far been solely cops. I have yet to see anything but a cop use Ka band in Michigan.

Originally posted by rkneeshaw:

I'll also note that I've never seen a cop use X band radar ever anymore.

I never did until I moved to Iowa.

actually:

To clarify your wave in a pool theory:

You are assuming that there is only one wave.. created by a ball, or a hand, or what have you..

but because radar is not ONE pulse, but (as an example: the AN/SPS-49 surface search radar works on the band of 850 to 942 MHz

So.. if your theory were to be more accurate, you would need to state that I (the radar detector) would need to be able to identify what created the wave, by COUNTING the waves, and how far apart they are (signal processing, and frequency determination.)

So, yes.. the FCC has set aside certain frequency ranges for RADAR, but if the manufacturer can make the detector MORE selective, then you can be able to further eliminate "false signals" from real ones. (there is a difference in selectivity and sensitivity.. ask about that and I would be glad to provide details on the simple RF radio block diagrams, particularly the RF selectors) for now, suffice to say that selectivity is the ability to "zoom in" on a certain freqency, and sensitivity is the ability to pick up a weaker signal.

most police RADAR work on microwave levels
While there are some radar bands from 1,300 to 1,600 MHz, most microwave applications fall in the range 3,000 to 30,000 MHz (3-30 GHz). X-Band resides at 10.6 GHZ

X Band
Developed during the 1950s and in use since about 1965. X Band ranges between 10.5 and 10.55 GHz (10.525 with a tolerance of 0.025), compared to other bands it has low frequency and high output. This makes it particularly easy to detect, in fact it is possible to detect at up to 4 miles away although it's own useful range is obviously a lot less than this. Unfortunately because intrusion alarms, radio masts, and door openers use a similar signal these can be the cause of a lot of false alarms.

In closing, I would like to reiterate that a more selective radar detector, can, and WILL create less audible "false alarms", because of its ability to more easily single out a SPECIFIC range of frequencies, instead of only being reactive to ANYTHING within a wide range..

Sorry to ramble..

Ray

If I undestand correctly, being selective would be identifying whether a radar signal is a cop or not based on its actual frequency. Saying, for example, athat 10.400-10.425 GHz is reserved for company A making doors, and 10.450-10.475 GHz is reserved for company B making police radar

But, there is no reliable way to say "this part of K band is for doors, and this part is used by cops" etc. While the FCC must liscense each device that sends out a RF signal, it would be nearly impossible to create a detector that has a catalog of known frequencies that cops use vs alarm systems or doors, let alone keep that catalog updated.

We are exactly on the same page..

while it is possible to be more selective, and "further" weed out false signals.. (my point) it is also not advisable to pick your detector solely on that ability..(your point)

the technology is around, though not feasible, nor applicable in this curcumstance..

YEA!!! WE DID IT!! WE DEBATED WITHOUT CALLING EACH OTHER NAMES!!! YEAH FOR ME!! YOU SUCK, MEANY-HEAD!!! (had to ruin it, before someone else did, because I asked for it!

Ray

Originally posted by rkneeshaw:
You're still not getting it.

Basicly you're saying that unless your detector detects a signal that is pointed directly at it, you want it to not tell you anything. That's silly because if a cop is sitting around a corner, and hitting traffic in front of you, you're basicly asking the detector to ignore it. And trust me, if the cop is pointing his radar at your car, your done anyway, making the detector useless.

Thinking less false alarms makes it a better detector is a false understanding.

No, I get it fine.

I never stated that at all, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

Thinking less FALSE alarms is a better detector is true understanding (to a point). Because if truly has less FALSE alarms while still having a good range on REAL threats, then it's a good detector such as the 8500 (which still has plenty of falses from automatic doors, but much less than cheaper detectors).

I don't know if you get it or not. I don't really care. You can buy your beeping box and I'll stick with my 8500 with less FALSE alarms and better range than your beeping box.

Well, you have the right to buy a radar detector based on misinformation.

I'll keep my detector with full confidence its going to alert me as soon as it detects the faintest radar signal, knowing that it isn't going to degrade its performance on me, or have inferior performance, just to prevent some false alarms when I'm in city limits.

Originally posted by rkneeshaw:
Well, you have the right to buy a radar detector based on misinformation.

I'll keep my detector with full confidence its going to alert me as soon as it detects the faintest radar signal, knowing that it isn't going to degrade its performance on me, or have inferior performance, just to prevent some false alarms when I'm in city limits.

Hmm, seeing as I didn't JUST buy it based on less false alarms but also its OUTSTANDING range, then OK. Like I said it still has plenty of false alarms. It has a city mode that lowers X band sensitivity that you can use if you want (I don't because most of the doors and cops here both use K band). Ooo but I'm sure my detector has degraded performance as opposed to a cheapo detector that goes off every 2 seconds. I hope you have a good time never speeding because you're always slowing down for a weak false alarm.

I have just one question for you? Do you understand the meaning of FALSE? It means it's not true, not real, NOT A REAL THREAT. So if a detector EFFECTIVELY lowers the amount of FALSE alarms will still having good RANGE for REAL THREATS, are you still gonna say it's a worse detector? One more question, ever heard of the word LOGIC?

I don't know about him, and I won't begin to answer for him.. but I have heard of logic..

LOGIC, would be: NOT SPEEDING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

So.. whether or not you are right, he is right, or you both just have different opinions (oh my gosh, can that be?????) Can we stop the bickering, and move on to more useful information, at least??
I think this thread is about dead, anyway..

There's a nice fresh thread about radar detector placement, if you guys wanna pick it up over there! LOL

Ray

I'm not trying to restart a war here, but here's a link to a small amount of info regarding this argument. BTW I use a bell 995 and I'm very happy with it.

http://www.radarbusters.com/support/product-tests/3.asp

Originally posted by Pienstars:
I'm not trying to restart a war here, but here's a link to a small amount of info regarding this argument. BTW I use a bell 995 and I'm very happy with it.

http://www.radarbusters.com/support/product-tests/3.asp

Ooo, that link must be fake because it agrees with my opinion.

Don't worry.. you weren't trying... ^^^^ He was.....

Ray

Originally posted by Ray:
Don't worry.. you weren't trying... ^^^^ He was.....

Ray

I don't understand what you're saying but OK.

Here's the funny thing: I didn't arrange, format, or clarify my statements in any way that would have indicated that I INTENDED for you to understand...

If you must know: I was saying that Pienstars wasn't trying to start the war, again, by posting relevant information (as he was afraid would happen)..

I was, however, stating that you, instead of reading, gaining knowledge, and walking away with a more profound understanding of the subject, chose to (instead) come BACK here, and in fact try to start the flame again.

Now, do you understand what I was saying, or should I just come out and say that you were being a little bit rude?

Ray

Who cares if I was being rude. I looked at the link and read the whole page and continued following more links on the page to learn even more. But the link confirmed what I was saying and I stated that (rudely) and I don't really care.

I was right and some other people were wrong.

Now I've had to take my share of being wrong so it's not a big deal to me and shouldn't be to the other persons involved but anyways.....

You've posted a link to a marketing site that is trying to sell radar detectors. There is nothing in there that scientificly proves either of us right or wrong. I wouldn't take just anything you find on the internet like that as fact without some sort of informative explanation.

If I want to sell a car to an child who thinks "if it has dual exhuast it must be fast" and I create a website saying LOOK AT THIS SUPER FAST CAR, YES IT HAS DUAL EXHAUST SO ITS FAST and it's a stock honda ATX with duel exhaust, it doesn't mean that I've proven that just because a car has dual exhuast it is fast. I'm just trying to make a sale, and am playing to the misconceptions of that child. Its sad, but thats how our world works.

All I'm saying is a site thats trying to sell radar detectors is going to play on the majority of users opinions, even if those opinions are misconceptions that radar detectors can "filter" false alarms. If it gets them the sale, they'll entertain the idea whether its factual or not.

I'm still waiting to hear the scientific explanation of how a radar detector is going to tell if that radar signal is a cop's, or a security system or door.

Like Ray and I discusseed, it isn't possible unless you have a catalog of all registered frequencies, which will probably never be a practical solution for detector manufacturers.

Here's the thing. Radar detectors do not filter out signals based on frequency even though they could. K-band used by police will ONLY be 24.150 and they could filter out all other frequencies of K band and vastly reduce the number of false alarms though the manufacturers don't do that. It would still false occasionally as some doors use 24.15 as well but most don't. X-band can also be done the same (though I don't know the exact frequency for police x-band). Ka can't be done the same as police have a wide range of frequencies to use on Ka, BUT Ka is almost exclusively used by police and a Ka alert should always be taken seriously. BUT that is not how false alarms are reduced. They are reduced by other technologies the radar detectors companies have developed, technologies that do not reduce range either. If you are interested in how they do it, how about contacting the companies or doing some research? So what do you think the best detector is? The one with the least amount of false signals? So $40 detectors are really the good ones not the 8500 or the V1?

And that site just could have easily used your arguement as well to "sell" radar detectors and they could have said any detector had the most false signals which means it's the best.

I still don't understand how in the world you think more FALSE signals equals a better detector. But I guess the cheap companies need someone to buy their stuff.

I guess even though I've explained it (though not thoroughly on how a detector can show less false signals, like I said how about doing some research) and a link has been shown to you that you will still argue in the favor of a beeping box because as you are saying the more FALSE signals the better the detector is. So what is your detector of choice?

Actually, since the Passport 8500 has a mode where it can identify the frequency of the signal, it wouldn't be far from that to be able to filter frequencies. The cost and the processing time may be prohibitive for the consumer market, however.

Originally posted by svtcarboy:
Actually, since the Passport 8500 has a mode where it can identify the frequency of the signal, it wouldn't be far from that to be able to filter frequencies. The cost and the processing time may be prohibitive for the consumer market, however.

Yes it does have that mode and it's a great mode indeed (the mode I'm using right now). And the software I'm sure wouldn't cost much at all to have it not go off at all on other frequencies BUT I think there must be other reasons they don't have it do that. Not sure what, but you could contact escort if curious. Maybe because of possible use in other countries.

The problem with saying that police radar is only on a specific frequency, and ignoring the others, is what happens when a new radar gun comes out on a slightly different frequency. Then you're screwed with a detector that thinks it should ignore the signal because it thinks its a door or something else.

Everyone has a right to their opinion, and you definately have the right to be happy with a detector that you think is "falsing" less.

I'll stick with my detector and assume it is going to warn me of all signals, regardless of what they are. I can tell by the number of signals I'm picking up, their direction, and the signal strength if its a threat or not. Besides, I don't speed in city limits anyway up here in the north, too dangerous for pedestrians. On the highway, any hint of a signal I get could be a threat, so I treat it as one. Heck, I'm known to turn my detector off in city limits. I expect my detector to report all signals, and not "think" its a door and not show me. Let me make that call.

As for whether it is possible for a processor to logically decide what signal is a door, and what signal is a cop, thats still up for debate. I've expressed all my reasons for my beleif that its not possible. If I had more time, and it was worth my while, I might try to dig a little deeper on the subject, but honestly, I don't have the time.

I would love to entertain any other theories though if it makes sense. But as I understand radar right now, its not possible.

Well I guess that's why detectors don't ignore frequencies (though I can using the 8500 and just looking at the display). 24.150 for K-band is LEGALLY the only K-band radar cops can use, so if another one comes out it wouldn't be hard to find out. Also if detector companies wanted to program the ability to ignore other frequencies they could just be updated (well the 8500 and some Bels can).

Well my detector does alert on all REAL signals it receives this INCLUDES doors. I guess the reason it is rated for less FALSE signals is because it doesn't alert of signals that aren't even truly present or alert as much on other people's cheap detectors. I notice you have a V1, well it isn't the BEST for having less falses, it definitely isn't the worse for falsing, so I guess you don't have the best detector you can have. Remember, more false alerts equal a better detector.

Anyways you have a very good detector (although overpriced), that doesn't false as much as cheaper detectors and I guess that means not showing an alert every time it receives any/every radar signal. But if you're happy thinking it does then so be it.

It's clear you either don't have any understanding of technology and the word FALSE or you just don't care to change your thinking.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
I notice you have a V1, well it isn't the BEST for having less falses, it definitely isn't the worse for falsing, so I guess you don't have the best detector you can have.

My decision on my detector purchase was based on range and reputation and features (such as the directional display and bogey counter). Since I think "false alarm" detection is a myth made up by uneducated users of radar detectors over the years, I don't consider that in my purchase decisions.

There is no reason for me to defend my choice of radar detector to you. However, because I chose based on range, locating features and bogey counter feature, I beleive I made the best choice for a detector.

If you discount the biased tests on that one website (I think its like, radardetectortest.com or something like that), the V1 outperforms all other detectors in range. Add the bogey counter and directional display, and you've got a heck of alot of intel provided for you. I've been more than happy with my V1 if you must know, and it has proven its high price tag on many occasions by saving me the money of fines and higher insurance rates.

Again, I've never attacked your choice of detector, I've mearly debated the myths of detecting "false alarms" and if thats even possible. I would appreciate it if you kept your posts on topic with the debate instead of trying to attack me personally. It shows maturity.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
It's clear you either don't have any understanding of technology and the word FALSE or you just don't care to change your thinking.

You have yet to show or give an explanation of how this "false alarm" detection could work. My understanding of how radar works (gained by the research I have done on it) is that there is no way to detect these "false alarms". The signal is either there on a specific frequency or its not. There is no way to identify what a signal is coming from just based on the signal unless you can have an updated and accurate list from the FCC of what companies are using what frequencies.

There is no company in the world that could get away with making a detector that only detects that one frequency that police radar uses. If that frequency changed, or a new one was introduced, they'd have to recall all previously sold detectors and replace them, otherwise their reputation would go down the crapper. Even if there was a good way to update a detector's "database" of police radar frequencies, this certainly hasn't been done yet.

I'm saying that not only is detecting false alarms pretty much impossible, but no company in the world is going to segragate signals the way you've said they could unless that company doesnt want to be around in 3 years. It would be a horrible business decision. It's like expecting Ford to update all of our cars as soon as new engine technology is released.

As rk hinted on: the only possible way (at this moment) would be a digital, cataloged database of frequencies, cross referenced to their relative signal strength, or inherent attributes (certain radar emmiters, such as those using the mls-4890-U klystron (and some using magnatrons, as well) leave a signal "scar", and that would leave the ability to determine exactly what emitted the signal.

Processes such as current ramping, or sine signal analysis could properly determine the originating system. and then the altitude, distance, speed, frequency, and course. However, with those capabilities, you are no longer looking at a dash mounted radar detector, you are looking at a full-fledged radar system. (need further info, check out some of the USN Air/Surface Search radar models, such as the SPS-49, SPS-55, SPS-67, SPS-73, or even the older Italian RTN10X.) You'll see, in any of those, there is not only a large amount of power required, there is also a substantially larger amount of storage room, compared to your windshield, and a MUCH heftier price tag (x,xxx,xxx.00)

So, RK.. the ability to determine the originator, SOLELY on the signal frequency (a door at 24.150 or a cop at 24.150)could be determined, because the square would have certain scar marks (peaks, pivots, ramps, slides, etc, on the pulse, which would be caused by the radar oven, or crystal itself. (now... how noticeable is a cop car's scar, compared to almost a million watts of output on the surface search, I wouldn't begin to think it would be.. but it can be done.. lol)

And Kremit,
The ability to do so, even though it DOES exist, is not feasible, as I stated before. The "technology" that the radar makers are using is not "new"... it isn't secret, and it isn't there.. The bottom line is this:
the more features you want, and the better you want it, the bigger, hotter, heavier, or more expensive its gonna get. You HAVE to have one of those! (if not more than one...) So.. you COULD effectively weed out MOST false signals, however, there ARE still going to be other systems that use the same frequency as a radar gun,and it WON'T filter that, unless it is a pretty functional system, and that costs money (see above figure on radars...) on another note.. there ARE shifts in frequencies that will change a signal, however not deviate from the center of 24.150. Its called bandwidth, and it can vary .01 to .25 or greater, depending on what application you talking about. (think back to what was referred to as "side band" on CB's and HAM radios.

End point: RK is right: selectivity, and sensitivity are the two most crucial components in a radar detectors abillity to perform to specification, or above

Krem is right: signal isolation and identification is a possibility, and may become a more useable feature in the future, just not now...

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Ray

Well I'm done with this thread as it's clear you are not even trying to understand any of it and are COMPLETELY misinterpreting nearly everything I say.

I will say that there are MULTIPLE tests (most recent one I've seen was motortrend's) that show the 8500 x50 and the V1 to have almost the exact same range (each detector does a little better than the other on certain ranges/conditions). THOUGH the 8500 has less false alarms. Less FALSE alarms means a detector that is more reliable IF the alarms are truly FALSE. I don't know the technology and neither do you about how detector companies keep detectors from constantly beeping but obviously they do it, some more effectively than others. And some detectors (such as the 8500) show what frequency it is, so if say it's k band and it's not 24.15 then you can continue at your speed. It also shows multiple signals at once if you care for it to do so. Though that's getting off topic. My point is that's it's been shown that detectors can have less false alarms and just as good/better range than other detectors. If you don't care to believe that, that's your choice.

Like I said before less FALSE alarms isn't the only factor in choosing a radar detector, but more false alarms DOES NOT means it's a better detector. But somehow you are trying to say it does, which you have yet to explain.

PM me if you really care to carry this crap on.

i have considered the 8500 for quite a while now...still thinking, but this thread is tilting the scale in favor if it...thanks for the info...

Originally posted by Stryker:
i have considered the 8500 for quite a while now...still thinking,

If you're even considering it, then get in on the group buy! You can't go wrong for that price IMO.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Like I said before less FALSE alarms isn't the only factor in choosing a radar detector, but more false alarms DOES NOT means it's a better detector. But somehow you are trying to say it does, which you have yet to explain.

I aggree, a purchase decision on a detector should not be solely decided on false alarms. Since I think detecting false alarms is impossible, I actually think it SHOULDN'T be a consideration at all.

Most important in a detector purchase IMO is its range and some form of bogey counter would be real important I would think. I like the way the 8500 shows the frequency, that rocks. But I also like the way my V1 shows the direction of the signal. Since I thought I'd want to know where that signal was coming from (not a threat if its from the side, and probably not a threat if its behind you) more than I cared what actual frequency was, I chose the V1.

i thought about it, but with buying my wheels and my stereo, my car mods savings accout (i keep all my mod $$$ in a separate act) is pretty much tapped, maybe in a few weeks if it keeps going that long.

BTW, when i clicked on this trhead to view it...

Quote:

views
666

My favorite mode on the Passport 8500 is ExpertMode, which not only tells you how many bogeys you have, but what bands they are and their relative signal strength.

Since you can use signal strength to denote position, I consider the V1 to be less informative (I have driven with one). In the various caravans I have been a part of, I have never been in a case where the V1 was alerting prior to my 8500, allowing for location in caravan.

How does signal strength tell you what direction its coming from?

DUHHHH!!! You get a relative signal strength, and then you whip your car in to an induced 360º, and note when the signal gets strongest!!!!!!

THAT'S the direction!!!

Ray

rofl

The change in intensity and the speed of the change in the intensity gives you relative position if it is front, rear, or side (in most of my driving left or right is irrelevant).

well, man... my $30 radar detector from back in the day would do that... wait.. isn't that the basic principle of a signal meter? it gets higher, faster, as you approach a cop? (and then fades/goes out as you move away from them?)

Ray

Originally posted by svtcarboy:
The change in intensity and the speed of the change in the intensity gives you relative position if it is front, rear, or side (in most of my driving left or right is irrelevant).

The V1 is the only detector on the market with a TRUE rear detection.... it has a radar pickup on the front of the detector (facing rearward), so its not signal strength, but (i believe) a triangulation of signal reception to determine front/back/side-to-side (Is it just me, or do I sound like Ludacris)

And I will still take my detector that picks up every signal, because I'm smart enough that I can figure out what signals are and what signals aren't cops based on their strength and frequency. If you have a good detector that gives you more than a 2 second warning of an approaching cop, then you can ignore the single beeps (false alarm or cop w/instant on in the distance?!) and just pay attention to the stronger beeps.

I still refuse to trade my V1 for anything.