Carbon fiber v.s. Fiber glass

First hand welcome fellow Illinoisian! AHAHHAHA

Like stated above it all depends on what you are looking for. I would go with the CF caues it is lighter and I believe to be stronger. Also make sure you get a good quality CF hood. When shopping for CF hoods look for the edges to be ROLLED with CF. They are alot of cheap CF hoods out there so make sure you do your research.

I oculd deal with an ugly CF hood. I'd rather paint it anyway. Do I smell a group buy??

Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Do I smell a group buy??

Brensenvill, Is it much cheaper to do "plain jane" Carbon fiber? Would most CF parts companies have the means to do it? I would think being really concerned about the asthetics of CF would account for most of the high price.

Originally posted by Tourgasm:
Brensenvill, Is it much cheaper to do "plain jane" Carbon fiber? Would most CF parts companies have the means to do it? I would think being really concerned about the asthetics of CF would account for most of the high price.

I have no idea what the costs are for CF. We had several 12ft rolls, so it was basically an unlimited supply. But I was always given the impression that the standard twill was a good bit cheaper than the weave stuff.

like I said, I only know boats. I have no clue how they fabricate the hoods [although I know how _I_ would fabricate them]. The way I was taught to do it is incredibly labor intensive and I would highly doubt that commercially they are made the same way.

about doing a group buy. no way. First off, I own a cougar so if I did, it would be cougar parts. 2nd, I no longer have access to my workshop where we made our boats [so I no longer have the equipment or the free carbon fiber]. 3rd, I dont have the space to fabricate or store the rather bulky molds I would have to make. 4th, I just dont like dealing with people, I'm an engineer for christ sake.

[sorry I hope I'm not hiijacking anything... but I wanted to post a photo or 2 for credibility]

heres one of our older hulls [which by the way is a solar powered hydrofoil]

and heres a very early photo of our newer hull [sorry that was the last photo I took, and that was over 2 years ago]. this is just the beginning of the mold.

That's pretty interesting. How fast do those boats move?

Originally posted by Tourgasm:
That's pretty interesting. How fast do those boats move?

the top boat had about 8hp [12 theoretically] and can hit 31mph in a dash configuration [the whole drive system is hotswappable, we have about 6 or 7 different configuations].

the bottom boat, I never piloted. it was way too frickin scary, I added waayyy too much power [but hey thats what they wanted... right??]. but that boat had a 32hp configuration [and was pushing 2000amps at 36volts], so I imagine it was pretty damn quick.

where do they sell a fiber-glass hood for the tour at?

i dont understand the people who buy CF hoods, you think it saves weight? Look at it this way, you save probably what.. 15-20 pounds, given the weight of our cars already and how much power most of us make, 15-20 pounds is equal to like 1-3hp, so your paying 500+ for something that will get you 1-3hp essentially.

To be honest, I could give a rats ass about the weight savings. I want one for the looks.

Originally posted by KingpinSVT:
To be honest, I could give a rats ass about the weight savings. I want one for the looks.

me too..and it does save around 25lbs

Originally posted by Tourige:
i dont understand the people who buy CF hoods, you think it saves weight? Look at it this way, you save probably what.. 15-20 pounds, given the weight of our cars already and how much power most of us make, 15-20 pounds is equal to like 1-3hp, so your paying 500+ for something that will get you 1-3hp essentially.

no comment.... I'll save my discussion for someone who's open minded.

Originally posted by tour96SeVT:

Originally posted by KingpinSVT:
To be honest, I could give a rats ass about the weight savings. I want one for the looks.

me too..and it does save around 25lbs

It's just for looks for our cars - cars r too heavy to make any difference. If your just going to paint it and all you want is a weight drop from stock hood weight, go ahead with a fiberglass one. I would not have gotten one if I didn't have a dark colored car:

Originally posted by blu_fuz:

Originally posted by tour96SeVT:

Originally posted by KingpinSVT:
To be honest, I could give a rats ass about the weight savings. I want one for the looks.

me too..and it does save around 25lbs

It's just for looks for our cars - cars r too heavy to make any difference. If your just going to paint it and all you want is a weight drop from stock hood weight, go ahead with a fiberglass one. I would not have gotten one if I didn't have a dark colored car:

..man your car is so bright at first glance i thought it was fake!!!! very nice

Originally posted by bensenvill:

Originally posted by Tourgasm:
That's pretty interesting. How fast do those boats move?

but that boat had a 32hp configuration [and was pushing 2000amps at 36volts], so I imagine it was pretty damn quick.

Is that on solar power? damn. How much room does all that gear take up? Could you power anything else with it? say a moped or gokart? Sorry for all the questions, I'm sure I sound like the annoying neighbor on "Home Alone"

Originally posted by Tourgasm:

Is that on solar power? damn. How much room does all that gear take up? Could you power anything else with it? say a moped or gokart? Sorry for all the questions, I'm sure I sound like the annoying neighbor on "Home Alone"

yes that is solar powered [hence why its a solar boat]. The panels arent on the boat on that photo. Our competitions limit us to a max of 480watts for the panels. So depending on how much you want to drop on solar cells [we hand make our own panels because commercial ones are way too heavy and dont put out enough power] can range from about 50 cells to 400 cells.

and yes, you can use them to power gokarts or whatever.

about how much room the equipment takes up... all of it. The older boat is 15' long and 2.5' at its widest. The newer boat is 17' long and ~3.5' at its widest. The boat was made just big enough to house one person [uncompfortably], upwards of 86 pounds of batteries [or as little as 36], 2 motors, 2 motor controllers, 7 data logging and control micro computers, one touchscreen dash, and a fish finder. Remember the only reason this boat works/flys [it has ranked as high as 2nd in the world], is because of its obnoxious low weight. The most common configuration totals 300 pounds for everything [including myself]. Fully loaded sitting in the water, the top of the hull is only about an inch and a half above the waterline... needless to say, that doesnt make a difference once you start moving [the hull is literally only used as landing gear].

The carbon fiber was really freaking out that day! It loves direct sunlight! - It almost looks like the hood is photoshopped on! - JOE

Originally posted by blu_fuz:
The carbon fiber was really freaking out that day! It loves direct sunlight! - It almost looks like the hood is photoshopped on! - JOE

..the whole thing just looks out of place..i think cause of the mirrors and the shadow and bright spots they create,kinda "against" what you expect to see outside...

Originally posted by bensenvill:

Originally posted by skifast87:
if it were me and i was going to buy a hood. i would buy a carbon fiber one. only because they seem to have less of a cracking issue. dont get me wrong they BOTH CRACK just CF seems to hold up better. if its color your worried about i know they do make it in different shades. however it is not all one color.

carbon fiber is in such short supply now that your paying enough of a price premium just for the regular stuff, once you start getting into the color weaves or metalics the price absolutely skyrockets.

about cracking. I dont know alot about how carbon fiber car parts are fabricated but I have made 2 carbon fiber boat hulls. That 4x4 weave carbon fiber you are use to seeing used for hoods is probably part of the reason for cracking... it is purely used for astetics [as opposed to other varieties. although I am unsure if they just use it for the top layer or if all ply's are weaves]. The plain-jane twill is the material that should be used for hoods. it is noticibly lighter and stronger [but very ugly]. the weave stuff is what you would typically use for highly contoured shapes [not generally flat areas].

also for our hulls we would include one or 2 layers of kevlar, which was primarily used to help prevent hull punctures. which in our unscientific testing, held up much better to damage. if you are really worried about cracking, you should be able to ask for a layer of kevlar to be added because it doesnt change the fabrication process.

[I also want to add that I think the CF hoods availible are BS, 12 pounds for a hood is way too much for the square footage. my last hull weighed in at 20 pounds for a 17' long enclosed hull, which included the cockpit and my seat]

Lest we forget all the layers of carbon and kevlar will not stop cracking. I believe that is a function of the resin used. Kevlar is not stiff at all, but it provides good abrasion and puncture resistance. Carbon is very stiff if you use the right weave. You can use a stronger weave on the inned layers and put a layer or two of bi-directional cloth on top for asthetic purposes. Kevlar does nothing for a hood except give it a different color. I'll have to double check this, but I think if it's any color but black it is not carbon but a dyed fiberglass or kevlar. I'll look now.

Jim T

For some, the bare CF on the exterior of the car is probably a similar taste to black wheels. Personally I think the patchwork look it gives the car isn't an improvement at all and is likely a rationalization for not wanting to spend any more money on paint. Let's face it the weight of the paint isn't really worth considering on one panel but the cost could be. However, in it's defense, the CF is an option when you need to shave some weight, or have a damaged panel to replace, so why not use CF. I have a painted to match CF hood (and yes the good stuff costs) it's just for shows and events. The steel one is dented and beat up from the 100 mi a day daily driving (not to mention NFS runs) so I'll continue to let it get a beating. I would not expect a CF hood to stand up to that, so I don't use it that way.

For those that have to debate it and compare it to the equivelant in gained HP, that's a way to find the best way to put it in a negative light. The major body panels like the boot and hood/bonett are the quickest, easiest things to replace in order to reduce weight. And, it leaves the car a more complete, functional package that way, rather than gutting the interior or something......what's the combined weight saving in the hood/trunk? I'm guessing Probably 35-50 lbs. You can take that and equate it to horsepower if you like but I'm good with the simple FACT that THOSE pounds are gone. No calculations necessary, you just shaved 35-50 lbs and it isn't a mod that requires tuning, dyno, or challenges your ability to pass emissions, or reduces your seating capacity because you gutted your interior etc, etc. I say using CF is smart.