New king of the hill! - CEG Archives

Good news. What is the HMS Dog-Box expected to handle? Crank hp wise... I am really happy to see 400+ Crank Hp out of our little Franken-Ford platform.

Originally posted by Buckshot77:

A/F is still around 12.0/1 so there is some tuning to be taken advantage of there. The aftercooler may actually be holding me back as far as peak numbers go because I'm showing about a 3-4 PSI drop with it in place.

Rick

Is that 3 to 4psi drop going to present a problem (hp losses) when used with the standard Vortech set up on a 2.5l?

Only if you can bread about 340 to the wheels.

you guys and your fancy horsepower...

That's great, Rick! It's funny, even with 396 fwhp, we nit-pick to try and get 4 extra hp... a true sign of addiction.

Congrats on the numbers, Rick. I hope everything goes smoothly from here on out!

Guess you gotta give the Vortech a lil respect now

thats beautiful

All of these responses and still nobody mentions the low RPM the peak HP was achieved at. Please notice how quickly the HP curve is starting to go North just before he shut her down! Until we see the natural HP peak somewhere's about 8 grand, this combo ain't done yet!

You guys can say better this or better that all you want. Just wait for the chip to come back from fordchips and you'll have your 400+ at the wheels easily.

Originally posted by cawong11:
Rick

Is that 3 to 4psi drop going to present a problem (hp losses) when used with the standard Vortech set up on a 2.5l?

Trade a few pounds of boost for cooler denser air any day of the week.

Hey Rick, were you running any ice in the aftercooler? Water alcohol mix???

Finally it has come together!!! Sweet lord have mercy!

Congrates buddy...its been a loooong time coming!

soooo.... have you had it to the track....

Nice job Rick! That's insanely good!

hey congrats rick! get that car tuned and make the 400 whp pull at SZ!

WOW! Thats awesome!

Originally posted by bnoon:
the low RPM the peak HP was achieved at.

I noticed he stopped at 6750... is he just waiting for a tune/chip to go higher?

I think I know what I am going to spend my college money on

I can always come back in a year right.

, some one talk me outa this

This was all done without any tricks such as ice in the cooler etc and was about the 6th run in 15-20 minutes time so everything was pretty warmed through. I'm guessing with a little better A/F range I should be able to hit close to 410. Of course that magic number equates to 500 if we go with the 18% driveline loss.

Rick

Way to go Rick.

No don't blow it.

Look forward to seeing what it does in the 1/4 mile.

nice

Originally posted by Nate S:
[homer] mmmm....395 hp svt ford contour...mmmmm [homer]

i agree with that

1. your the god of contours
2. OMg
3.OMG
4. wanna trade??

awesome rick, hopefully you won't be the only one there soon. . . ..1/4 should be a since the power comes on a bit later in the curve. . .sexy curves though (the DYNO curves). . .

That's just disgusting Rick. Disgusting.

Also, this little tidbit of info...

80 more hp and 800 less lbs than a '03 M5.

I gotta run to to the bathroom.

That's awesome Rick! I'm glad she's back together and running gooder!

Glad the new clutch can hold the power.

Originally posted by JVT:
Also, this little tidbit of info...

80 more hp and 800 less lbs than a '03 M5.

I gotta run to to the bathroom.

Now it just needs to be RWD....

Very nice power, I wasn't expecting to see any vortech users in the power competion but it's proving to not be too bad. Now we just gotta see what burrita does.

Originally posted by Keyser:
1. Awww that's too bad Rick. You almost made it.
2. Anyone notice he has an intercooler on his Vortec?

1. The thing is why did he not spin it to 7200rpm???

It would have easily broken 400. (sand bagging

)

2. Yes that is the first thing I commented on as well on another site.
Funny how a significantly cooler and denser intake charge does that.
The reduced heat adds a lot of reliability too.

I did another run up to 7250 and I peaked at 6750 still. I'm guessing that at 6750 I'm just outflowing my aftercooler. I do have a dyno graph showing peak hp at 400.22 but it's not a nice pretty one like this so I didn't post it. There's pretty easily 410 in this thing. I've all ready got measurements on a bigger cooler core so I'm going to have to see what I can fit in there.

Rick

Conrgads ! Those are some unbelievable numbers! Very curious to see what it does in the 1/4. If I was you, I'd be out right now looking for M5's to smoke...

Sweet numbers, congrats!

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

2. Yes that is the first thing I commented on as well on another site.
Funny how a significantly cooler and denser intake charge does that.
The reduced heat adds a lot of reliability too.

Yes, very true, and I suppose looking at intake temperature to HP relationship, the HP gained by the cooler air charge will outweigh the loss of maximum boost pressure.

What a gross display of power, it's obscene.

WOW

Now beyondloaded and BurretaSVT have some competition..........

Mother of Gaawwdd!!!

I forgot..do you have forged internals in that thing??

Yes he does.

Rick-
Did you get teh AEM UEGO Wideband hooked up on that thing? Just curious to see how difficult the install was and if it was accurate with the tuning you did with the engine. . .(A/F ration on the gauge vs. from the dyno). . .

Suneil

holy crap!!! that is so f-ing cool. CONGRATS! i can imagine the traction problems you have with that!

Originally posted by cawong11:

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

2. Yes that is the first thing I commented on as well on another site.
Funny how a significantly cooler and denser intake charge does that.
The reduced heat adds a lot of reliability too.

Yes, very true, and I suppose looking at intake temperature to HP relationship, the HP gained by the cooler air charge will outweigh the loss of maximum boost pressure.

That's what a smaller pulley is for...

Not only that but boost will build a little earlier as well.

Rick and I are already discussing how to fit the larger core in there. The one he has was rated to 500 cfm which he obviously out flowed. The new one is rated to 700cfm. This is the one that is on the Beyondloaded project.

Originally posted by Keyser:
Rick and I are already discussing how to fit the larger core in there. The one he has was rated to 500 cfm which he obviously out flowed. The new one is rated to 700cfm. This is the one that is on the Beyondloaded project.

I hope I'm getting the bigger one. I can wait for that.

How about a chip too?

There comes a point and time when something is accomplished that will draw an invisible line in the sand and every 5 feet down that line, there is a sign that reads, "I dare ya!". And I think this is one of those times.

I can see many people just throwing their hands up in the air and saying out loud, "Oh forget it! I'll never be able to accomplish that!", but I also know that their will be a brave, lucky few that will say to themselves in a sly voice.... "PROJECT!"

Congrats Rick. Great job.

The AEM Uego was simple to install. Just welded a bung before my center resonator and hooked the guage up to 12 volt power. I didn't trust the reading on the dyno as it showed me at 12.3:1 and my gauge read out at 11.1:1. I'm going to play with my SAFC and get my guage to reading better and go with that. They were having problems getting a good reading with my exhaust setup and the sensor type they had.

Demon, I'm running a 2.7x" pulley all ready. I think if I go smaller I actually will overspin the max rpm on the S/C.

Chris, you are getting the smaller core as that's what fits without any major problems and as you can see it all ready will support 400 hp which won't happen on your 2.5. I have only barely looked at fitting a larger core and that won't happen until late summer if at all.

In all I'm a little more than pleased with the final results and I know some minor tweaks will yield me over 400 pretty easily. I should also mention this dyno was on about 3 gallons of 1 year old 91 octane mixed with about 5 gallons of fresh 92. So a better fuel will also do me just fine.

Lastly, I've got to give some thanks to my wonderful wife who has given me 1000's of hours to spend in the garage and I wouldn't have been able to complete this project without her understanding.

Thanks,
Rick

Originally posted by Buckshot77:

Chris, you are getting the smaller core as that's what fits without any major problems and as you can see it all ready will support 400 hp which won't happen on your 2.5. I have only barely looked at fitting a larger core and that won't happen until late summer if at all.

Understood, and I received your email.

Thanks.

Chris

PS: Keyser, how about that chip. Hint, Hint.

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
Demon, I'm running a 2.7x" pulley all ready. I think if I go smaller I actually will overspin the max rpm on the S/C.

I know.

I was just reminding Chris of a good way to overcome the minor pressure drop from the intercooler.

Maybe you'll get that ellusive 400 hp pull here in Michigan Rick

Either way, congrats on your numbers, truely amazing!, now get that damn thing into SCC magazine and make us all proud

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

I was just reminding Chris of a good way to overcome the minor pressure drop from the intercooler.

I'm still running the original jackshaft assembly (dated May 2002), so should I run a 2.87 or 3.125 pulley to keep the same psi after the intercooler (compared to no intercooler). I would be afraid of the shaft failing sooner than later.

I'd run the 3.13 if you're currently running the stock pulley.

Rick

How much $$$ did it cost you to reach 400hp,
If you don't mind sharing i understand.

Congrats on your project, very impressive

Rick I bet you were sweating bullets when you ran her for the first time - what with your unbelievable bad luck in the past. Congrats on this achievement!

BTW I see you're running the S-AFC. Hmmm, is the ECU fighting it? I'm having issues with high EGT's right now and am looking at doing something to adjust fuel (until Chris comes up here with his laptop!).

I've got roughly 37,500 in everything, but that includes 3 motor builds and all the peripheral upgrades as well. This isn't just an engine, but engine, trans, suspension, ahh heck I'll let you guys look at the mod sheet and see:

Suspension Modifications

Koni Adjustable Struts
Eibach Lowering Springs front
H&R Lowering Springs rear
24 MM Aussie Bar- Rear Sway Bar
¼ Metal sway bar backing plates
Poly end link bushings
ES Motor Mount Insert
245/45/16 Yoko AVS Tires
5 MM spacers at wheels
Tubular Steel Adjustable Rear track arms
From Buckshot Motorsports
Energy Suspension Rear Control Arm, Front and Rear Sway Bar bushings
12.2�?� Superlite Brake kit from TCE Performance
11.25�?� Upgraded Rear Brake Kit from TCE Performance
Cryo Treated Brake rotors by 300 Below Inc.
Adjustable Front camber kit from BAT Inc.

Drivetrain & Performance Modifications

Buckshot Motorsports prepped 3 liter block
SVT Cams, w/ water pump drive removed
Cunningham Chrome Molly Rods with upgraded rod bolts
Diamond Racing 9.5:1 pistons with Total Seal piston rings
Clevite 77 rod & federal mogul main bearings
Dual Mode Mondeo Damper
SHO Shop lightened Billet Flywheel
Crank Knife Edged by Horn Race Engines
Engine Balanced by Midstates Machine
Crank, and rods cryo treated by 300 Below Inc.
3 Liter Heads Port & Polished with multi-angle valve job by BNM
Port matched UIM and LIM
SPEC Stage III clutch and pressure plate
2000 Model Year Transmission
HMS Inc. Mark III transmission update w/ full lube system & Zetec Final Drive Ratio
Quaife LSD installed by HMS Inc
Driveshaft Shop level III CV shafts
Cryo treated wheel hubs and studs
42 lb Ford Racing Injectors
Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump
MSD DIS-4 ignition Control
Water Injection Kit
Accusump 2 qt accumulator
Remote mount oil filter
Apex-I SAFC
Ford 9MM Plug Wires
B & M short Shifter
75 MM Pro-Flow MAF

65 MM Throttle Body optimized by
Buckshot Motorsports.
2.5�?� True Dual Exhaust w/ Magnaflow race series mufflers and crossover
Ford Chips tuned flip chip
Custom 1.75�?� Nickel Plated headers by MSDS Inc
Vortech Supercharger w/ upgraded shaft and 2.87�?� pulley
Secondary bearing block on cross shaft by
KnuKonceptz.com
Custom water to air aftercooler by Buckshot Motorsports
Autometer Phantom gauges including Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, Fuel Pressure, Boost/Vacuum and 5�?� monster tach w/shift light.
AEM Uego wideband O2 monitor
4 point Safety Harness
Dual Honed SVT upper intake
Trunk mounted Optima red top battery with remote disconnect
Derale Oil Cooler

Aesthetic Modifications

Buckshot Motorsports polished stainless sill protectors
Removed door ding guards
Foglights run w/o head lights
BNM Indiglo Gauges & HVAC Panel
Powdercoating of Various engine pieces by Buckshot Motorsports
Billet Pedal Kit including dead pedal
15% window tint
Body color matched grilles at all locations
Painted SVT Emblem at hood grille
Custom Front Fender Badging
SSR GT1 series 17�?� Rims street use
SSR GT1 series 16�?� Rims track use
PIAA 510 Driving Lights
Front Splitter by Mirko Racing

Sponsors

Brad Noon Motorsports
Buckshot Motorsports
Cunningham Rods
MSDS Inc.
RAM Clutches
TCE Performance
300 Below Inc.
Wolfe�??s Auto Body

You might have posted this somewhere already, but what are all the mods you did to the car to get it to that much HP.

I would assume 3.0L upgrade, some forced induction and stuff, but I am looking to put a lot of work into my new CSVT and want to know what went into yours.

Uh check my mod list the last post on page 3.

thanks,
Rick

damn......now you need to enter the nevada open road challenge or silver state classic.....show everyone what a built tour can do...

holy crap rick...i just saw this now, congratulations, but no you didnt catch the camaro yet

Good to hear you have her running Rick. Congrats

Hey a post from the guy who was there for the first meltdown! Thanks Ryan. Drop me a line when you get back.

Rick

I bow down to the King!

OMG!!!!!

Congratulations Rick! I'm glad to see you satisfied(for now) with all the work/money you put into that thing....I could only imagine your frustrations!

I was curious of the air/fuel comparison between the UEGO controller and the dyno...seeing as I'm running the same gauge. I guess if you were showing 11:1, you've got some power lurking in the curve.

Good luck and take that thing to the track!

Hey Rick, what do you think that bad boy could top out if given a straight shot on a closed road

I figure if he has the zetec final drive he'll top out just under 170mph. gear limited.

i think the drag would get to him before that.

by the way, ARE YOU FREGGIN SERIOUS?? 400HP!?

Good Laaaawd Rick nice job

I'm very curious what will happen after more tinkering.

i think with that kind of horsepower he would have plenty of pull to overcome the drag limitation.

nice numbers! and what was the final psi(on the boost gauge)???

I'm guessing a top end of 170-180ish.

The AEM guage read a lot fatter than the dyno, but I think the dyno sensor was messed up. I'll check it again at SZ and see how everything is running.

Boost was around 9 psi at 7250. I just couldn't force anymore air through the aftercooler.

Rick

Originally posted by ezsvt:
holy crap rick...i just saw this now, congratulations, but no you didnt catch the camaro yet

I'll play the displacement card for him.

183ci vs 388ci

396 vs 478

2.17 per vs 1.23 per

2 mean beasts either way!

Originally posted by The Striped SVT:
Hey Rick, what do you think that bad boy could top out if given a straight shot on a closed road

I can tell you right now.

...at 7200rpm in 5th gear with the 3.84 Zetec gear and 245/45/16's it is:

~180 mph

Yes he has enough HP to wind out the tach at will.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

183ci vs 388ci

396 vs 478

2.17 per vs 1.23 per

Hooray for 4 cams!

what does all the cryo treating do? wheel hubs and studs? crank? whats the benefit. i've seen cryo treating rotors which i see u did too.

Hey Rick,

How much of the 37k did sponsors help out with? That is one HUGE project. Very nice job.

~Paul

p.s. I deleted that rollover vid off my computer...it makes me sad.

The cryo treating is basically a strengthening method that is supposed to help against wear cycling and stress fractures.

As far as the 37K, that is my portion of the investment. For sponsorships, I'm basically just getting their cost on a few parts and/or they helped me get everything together on this so I listed them. I don't have any actual monetary sponsors (except me

)

Thanks,
Rick

where is the burnout video?

I was wondering when we would get to see a dyno sheet on that monster.

Congrats!

Congrats, Rick! Now I just hope we can pull that outta my S/C'd 3L as well!

when are we gonna see some number on this? Better not be any less than 11's

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:
when are we gonna see some number on this? Better not be any less than 11's

Step away from the crack pipe... Any street suspensioned front wheel drive with this much power would be lucky to get low 13's because of low traction at the start through probably the end of third gear. Even with slicks it would be hard pressed to run anything consistantly in the high 12's. It will, however, have one hell of a top end charge!!!

Luckily, Rick's more of a road racer anyway.

Originally posted by bnoon:

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:
when are we gonna see some number on this? Better not be any less than 11's

Step away from the crack pipe... Any street suspensioned front wheel drive with this much power would be lucky to get low 13's because of low traction at the start through probably the end of third gear. Even with slicks it would be hard pressed to run anything consistantly in the high 12's. It will, however, have one hell of a top end charge!!! Luckily, Rick's more of a road racer anyway.

mid to high 12's are had with less than 300 whp srt's on a fairly consistent basis. In fact as soon as I get off my ass and buy some slicks I plan to be there myself, but I'll wait for a timeslip to go into any further detail about that.

For road racing it'll be flat out beast. Is this going to be a circuit car or an ameture enthusiast weekend warrior car? You should bring it to One Lap next year and try it out against the ol Lake-Effect-Racing Neon.

I'm hoping to hit something in the mid 12's on road race slicks. We shall see up at SZ as long as I don't lunch the trans.

The car was pretty much built for weekend enthusiast use as it still has a full interior, no race seats, no cage, etc. One Lap is a goal of mine, but only after the car has proven itself reliable. I don't relish 5,000 miles of stopping to fix every few hundred. For that reason OTC may be a more viable option as I can at least trailer the car from event to event there.

Thanks,
Rick

that damn trans is the achelies heal ain't it. Regardless, nice work on that motor, it looks "reliable" on paper.

The trans is a bulldog box by HMS. However, the gears are still stock so there's a good possibility of actual stripping the teeth off the gears.

Rick

if I remember right from blowing my diff and installing the quaife, there aren't any upgraded gear options for the mtx-75?

can't you have the gears cryo treated?
i know you could do that to the Suby gears and they handle up to 500whp!

Amazing! Great work!

Yes you can have the gears treated, however, for the cost I'd have a lot more piece of mind with the quaife gearset. About $3200 plus install.

Rick

Quote:

if I remember right from blowing my diff and installing the quaife, there aren't any upgraded gear options for the mtx-75?

Hm?

http://www.quaifeamerica.com/gears/mtx75.htm

Of course, that $5k pricetag might not be an option.

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:

mid to high 12's are had with less than 300 whp srt's on a fairly consistent basis. In fact as soon as I get off my ass and buy some slicks I plan to be there myself, but I'll wait for a timeslip to go into any further detail about that.

Hurry up and get some slicks before the 23rd.

I predict 400 hp on readily availble 94 Sunoco here in SE MI

Congrats Rick on almost 400 at the wheels. Very, very impressive.

I will not be surprised if your car traps at 115+ while just skirting into the 12's.

Flashback here......I remember seeing you way back at SZ02....after you threw in a regular SVT engine just to make the trip up after your original 3L mishap.

Originally posted by MystiqueSVT:
Flashback here......I remember seeing you way back at SZ02....after you threw in a regular SVT engine just to make the trip up after your original 3L mishap.

Hey I helped install that engine

Rick has most of the prep work done but we still dropped it in, hooked it up and was running in about 8 hours IIRC.

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:

Originally posted by bnoon:

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:
when are we gonna see some number on this? Better not be any less than 11's

Step away from the crack pipe... Any street suspensioned front wheel drive with this much power would be lucky to get low 13's because of low traction at the start through probably the end of third gear. Even with slicks it would be hard pressed to run anything consistantly in the high 12's. It will, however, have one hell of a top end charge!!! Luckily, Rick's more of a road racer anyway.

mid to high 12's are had with less than 300 whp srt's on a fairly consistent basis. In fact as soon as I get off my ass and buy some slicks I plan to be there myself, but I'll wait for a timeslip to go into any further detail about that.

For road racing it'll be flat out beast. Is this going to be a circuit car or an ameture enthusiast weekend warrior car? You should bring it to One Lap next year and try it out against the ol Lake-Effect-Racing Neon.

You said it, SRT's can get there. They have a better suspension and get it to the road better than a Contour can. Mid 12's at best.

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
I've got roughly 37,500 in everything, but that includes 3 motor builds and all the peripheral upgrades as well. This isn't just an engine, but engine, trans, suspension, ahh heck I'll let you guys look at the mod sheet and see:

Suspension Modifications

Koni Adjustable Struts
Eibach Lowering Springs front
H&R Lowering Springs rear
24 MM Aussie Bar- Rear Sway Bar
¼ Metal sway bar backing plates
Poly end link bushings
ES Motor Mount Insert
245/45/16 Yoko AVS Tires
5 MM spacers at wheels
Tubular Steel Adjustable Rear track arms
From Buckshot Motorsports
Energy Suspension Rear Control Arm, Front and Rear Sway Bar bushings
12.2�?� Superlite Brake kit from TCE Performance
11.25�?� Upgraded Rear Brake Kit from TCE Performance
Cryo Treated Brake rotors by 300 Below Inc.
Adjustable Front camber kit from BAT Inc.

Drivetrain & Performance Modifications

Buckshot Motorsports prepped 3 liter block
SVT Cams, w/ water pump drive removed
Cunningham Chrome Molly Rods with upgraded rod bolts
Diamond Racing 9.5:1 pistons with Total Seal piston rings
Clevite 77 rod & federal mogul main bearings
Dual Mode Mondeo Damper
SHO Shop lightened Billet Flywheel
Crank Knife Edged by Horn Race Engines
Engine Balanced by Midstates Machine
Crank, and rods cryo treated by 300 Below Inc.
3 Liter Heads Port & Polished with multi-angle valve job by BNM
Port matched UIM and LIM
SPEC Stage III clutch and pressure plate
2000 Model Year Transmission
HMS Inc. Mark III transmission update w/ full lube system & Zetec Final Drive Ratio
Quaife LSD installed by HMS Inc
Driveshaft Shop level III CV shafts
Cryo treated wheel hubs and studs
42 lb Ford Racing Injectors
Walbro 255 LPH fuel pump
MSD DIS-4 ignition Control
Water Injection Kit
Accusump 2 qt accumulator
Remote mount oil filter
Apex-I SAFC
Ford 9MM Plug Wires
B & M short Shifter
75 MM Pro-Flow MAF

65 MM Throttle Body optimized by
Buckshot Motorsports.
2.5�?� True Dual Exhaust w/ Magnaflow race series mufflers and crossover
Ford Chips tuned flip chip
Custom 1.75�?� Nickel Plated headers by MSDS Inc
Vortech Supercharger w/ upgraded shaft and 2.87�?� pulley
Secondary bearing block on cross shaft by
KnuKonceptz.com
Custom water to air aftercooler by Buckshot Motorsports
Autometer Phantom gauges including Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, Fuel Pressure, Boost/Vacuum and 5�?� monster tach w/shift light.
AEM Uego wideband O2 monitor
4 point Safety Harness
Dual Honed SVT upper intake
Trunk mounted Optima red top battery with remote disconnect
Derale Oil Cooler

Aesthetic Modifications

Buckshot Motorsports polished stainless sill protectors
Removed door ding guards
Foglights run w/o head lights
BNM Indiglo Gauges & HVAC Panel
Powdercoating of Various engine pieces by Buckshot Motorsports
Billet Pedal Kit including dead pedal
15% window tint
Body color matched grilles at all locations
Painted SVT Emblem at hood grille
Custom Front Fender Badging
SSR GT1 series 17�?� Rims street use
SSR GT1 series 16�?� Rims track use
PIAA 510 Driving Lights
Front Splitter by Mirko Racing

Sponsors

Brad Noon Motorsports
Buckshot Motorsports
Cunningham Rods
MSDS Inc.
RAM Clutches
TCE Performance
300 Below Inc.
Wolfe�??s Auto Body

Holy [censored] shyt. That's a lot of mods. A $40,000 Contour! And I bet my booty it's worth every penny.

For all those that didn't think 396 was quite good enough

, I did dig up a sheet from the session that is unsmoothed and shows a spike of 400.22 HP. Also some better pics of the engine bay.

Rick

Thats awesome!!

So when are we going to see it in a magazine? If you need a pic of it I am your man

, see you at Spring Zing.

I wouldn't mind shooting some pics. now that it's complete I'm going to start shopping for some actual sponsors.

Rick

I'd say you have the T-red coating down. Very, very clean install!

Rick-

Your timing in the mid range is being pulled. I don't understand why hp and tq don't cross at 5252, I assume Mustang dyno's print out differently. It looks like the knock sensor. In some programs and I'm almost positve in yours, the knock sensor shuts off in higher rpms like 5800 rpms because of false knock from noise. It looks like 'the man' moved it down a bit but you will likely need to lose it forever. There is just too much noise with that much cfm flowing.

That makes perfect sense to me. As far as the torque cross goes, they were having problems picking up the actual rpm points on that graph so I'm thinking they're pretty skewed. I'm hoping to get a little better graph and comparison of my wideband gauge on the dyno at SZ. You really should fly out and tune my car and Beyondloaded

Rick

yeah Keyser, fly out and tune some cars.

Sure I'll just take the company jet and I'll be there in 4 hours. Be at the airport waiting OK?

Originally posted by Keyser:
Sure I'll just take the company jet and I'll be there in 4 hours. Be at the airport waiting OK?

No problem, I'll just push the contour there.

This may an obvious question, but why would anyone think the knock sensor is seeing "false knock" and how do you know it is false. Seems counter - intuitive to me.....

Could it simply be doing what is was calibrated to do?????

Because most heavily modified engines are noiser than stock engines, the knock sensor detects false knock. Some people wrap the knock sensor in a rag or something or move it to a quieter place, but if you know you have a good tune and use good gas then you don't really need it.

Or you can just be like ford and randomly choose which engines get knock sensors. I've worked on 3 duratecs (2 2.5's and one svt 2.5) that haven't had them and never even had the wireing on the harness for one.

BTW: Nice numbers Rick I hope you have that supercharger figured out so we don't see another one rip itself apart. I'll eventually get a turbo for one of my 3L's but I just bought a house so I'll have to wait a few months until we get settled in.

Still looking for another set of oval port heads so keep me in mind when you find some.

Originally posted by svtjeff:
This may an obvious question, but why would anyone think the knock sensor is seeing "false knock" and how do you know it is false. Seems counter - intuitive to me.....

Could it simply be doing what is was calibrated to do?????

In one of my few early dyno runs with boost we couldn't figure out the mid range drop in power. We turned off the knock sensor and picked up about 30hp.

Keyser -
I understand - but again I would be careful with doing that. The knock sensor cal is not very robust to begin with and it has difficulty seeing all of the cylinders - especially #4 - which is usually the hottest one of all.

Last (and only) time I've had the knock sensor actually go off, the piston all ready had a hole in it. It's more about knowing your car and having a proper tune than using that as your safety valve.

BTW I unscrewed mine from the block last night and wrapped it up to shield against vibration. We'll see if the dyno plot straightens out at SZ.

Rick

Originally posted by svtjeff:
Keyser -
I understand - but again I would be careful with doing that. The knock sensor cal is not very robust to begin with and it has difficulty seeing all of the cylinders - especially #4 - which is usually the hottest one of all.

Jeff- warning noted but consider this. Why would they program the sensor to turn off under high rpm if it wasn't prone to false knock? The stock sensor pulls -5 degrees which is pretty robust when the mid range WOT spark is probably only about 18 degrees. That's almost 1/3 of the timing.

those are both good points. Question is, why would you engineer a knock sensor that can't do it's job properly? Even in stock conditions.

Also, if you're losing 1/3 of your mid range timing buckshot, you've got 500 hp monster waiting to be free'd. Or at least 400 hp a lot sooner in the rpms.

You don't read well. I said the knock sensor turns off in high rpms. His top number will not get any higher by turning it off. I also said the under FI it hears false knock not under stock conditions. Sometimes with long tubes it will throw it off but usually not stock.

while we're talking about timing and tuning in general. Anybody here use the Innovative LM-1 for a/f's?? I've decided that for the cost of one damn dyno tuning session I can practically buy everything I need to do my own data analysis.

Originally posted by Keyser:
You don't read well. I said the knock sensor turns off in high rpms. His top number will not get any higher by turning it off. I also said the under FI it hears false knock not under stock conditions. Sometimes with long tubes it will throw it off but usually not stock.

I read just fine but thanks for askin';) You said "why would they program it to turn off in the high rpms if it wasn't prone to knock." Maybe by "they" you mean somebody other than Ford. If that's the case then my bad, I never tried to beat a dead horse an FI my contour.

THe other comment about 500 hp was a bit of sarcasm on my part. There is more HP to be had with a proper tune albeit, nowhere near 500.

I hope to have the 500 crank HP title by next weekend

Rick

"beat a dead horse and FI a Contour" - I take offense Mr HIGH AND MIGHTY SRT OWNER.
Edit: Unless you just meant your old SVT was bunk and not all of them.

The MTX-75 is the death of the tour!

I am on my 4th MTX and only have about 180 FWHP.

Congrats Rick...Great numbers!

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:

If that's the case then my bad, I never tried to beat a dead horse an FI my contour.

THe other comment about 500 hp was a bit of sarcasm on my part. There is more HP to be had with a proper tune albeit, nowhere near 500.

Dude, we bought our boost off a shelf; these guys took an already well-performing engine, some metal, a torch, some high-dollar grease, and lots of beer and more than doubled the amount of power than our cars put down stock, using less displacement than mine and probably about the same amount of boost as yours prior to your modding. I'd call that an accomplishment worthy of nothing but respect.

To say, "I never tried to beat a dead horse an FI my contour" is to skate on extremely thin ice. I would imagine the LS1 forum would have the same thing to say about a Neon. Represent for your old ride, man, even if your new one is faster

Tim

Thanks for the kind words. I like how you worded it as well. There is most definitely a lot of blood, sweat, and tears in this project, especially being something of a pioneer for forced induction on the 3L.

Rick

Originally posted by Tim:

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:

If that's the case then my bad, I never tried to beat a dead horse an FI my contour.

THe other comment about 500 hp was a bit of sarcasm on my part. There is more HP to be had with a proper tune albeit, nowhere near 500.

Dude, we bought our boost off a shelf; these guys took an already well-performing engine, some metal, a torch, some high-dollar grease, and lots of beer and more than doubled the amount of power than our cars put down stock, using less displacement than mine and probably about the same amount of boost as yours prior to your modding. I'd call that an accomplishment worthy of nothing but respect.

To say, "I never tried to beat a dead horse an FI my contour" is to skate on extremely thin ice. I would imagine the LS1 forum would have the same thing to say about a Neon. Represent for your old ride, man, even if your new one is faster

Tim

Now that is well said.

And I'm faster. If I didn't like my contour, I wouldn't be here telling buckshot "good job". Dammit I love this board. Like making fun of retards. Buckshot: nice job dude. Tools who are pissed off:

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:
And I'm faster. If I didn't like my contour, I wouldn't be here telling buckshot "good job". Dammit I love this board. Like making fun of retards. Buckshot: nice job dude. Tools who are pissed off:

I need an interpreter for this fragmented mess... eerrr

Huh?

GWAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Rev. Po-Jay:

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:
And I'm faster. If I didn't like my contour, I wouldn't be here telling buckshot "good job". Dammit I love this board. Like making fun of retards. Buckshot: nice job dude. Tools who are pissed off:

I need an interpreter for this fragmented mess... eerrr Huh?

I understand it. Tim was complementing Rick and some people misunderstood. Tim liked his svtc and thus still lurks these forums, though his current ride is faster and I think he enjoys it a little more than the 'tour. Some of ya'll need to calm down and think,,, he's was saying anything bad about rick's car and no one needs to be pissed off.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by Rev. Po-Jay:

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:
And I'm faster. If I didn't like my contour, I wouldn't be here telling buckshot "good job". Dammit I love this board. Like making fun of retards. Buckshot: nice job dude. Tools who are pissed off:

I need an interpreter for this fragmented mess... eerrr Huh?

I understand it. Tim was complementing Rick and some people misunderstood. Tim liked his svtc and thus still lurks these forums, though his current ride is faster and I think he enjoys it a little more than the 'tour. Some of ya'll need to calm down and think,,, he's was saying anything bad about rick's car and no one needs to be pissed off.

I wasn't pissed, I literally needed an interpreter. You did it. Thanks.

Originally posted by Tim:

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:

If that's the case then my bad, I never tried to beat a dead horse an FI my contour.

THe other comment about 500 hp was a bit of sarcasm on my part. There is more HP to be had with a proper tune albeit, nowhere near 500.

Dude, we bought our boost off a shelf; these guys took an already well-performing engine, some metal, a torch, some high-dollar grease, and lots of beer and more than doubled the amount of power than our cars put down stock, using less displacement than mine and probably about the same amount of boost as yours prior to your modding. I'd call that an accomplishment worthy of nothing but respect.

To say, "I never tried to beat a dead horse an FI my contour" is to skate on extremely thin ice. I would imagine the LS1 forum would have the same thing to say about a Neon. Represent for your old ride, man, even if your new one is faster

Tim

Oh yeah.......all us LS1 guys just love the Neon guys!

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168210&highlight=SRT4

Holy Sh!t !!!! You definately need to get that in a magazine. That is some amazing work.

Originally posted by MystiqueSVT:

Originally posted by Tim:

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:

If that's the case then my bad, I never tried to beat a dead horse an FI my contour.

THe other comment about 500 hp was a bit of sarcasm on my part. There is more HP to be had with a proper tune albeit, nowhere near 500.

Dude, we bought our boost off a shelf; these guys took an already well-performing engine, some metal, a torch, some high-dollar grease, and lots of beer and more than doubled the amount of power than our cars put down stock, using less displacement than mine and probably about the same amount of boost as yours prior to your modding. I'd call that an accomplishment worthy of nothing but respect.

To say, "I never tried to beat a dead horse an FI my contour" is to skate on extremely thin ice. I would imagine the LS1 forum would have the same thing to say about a Neon. Represent for your old ride, man, even if your new one is faster

Tim

Oh yeah.......all us LS1 guys just love the Neon guys!
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168210&highlight=SRT4

Ya'll make yourselves sound worse than srt4 owners. I know f-body owners that act worse than srt4 owners and vice versa. Funny how people can't differentiate a car from a person. I think it's just the ws6 and ss owners are just mad because a stock $21k neon can come so close to beating them. And with just $3k, a srt4 could absolutely SMOKE a ws6. I know first hand what a stock srt4 vs. ws6 race looks like, and it won't take much for that 4cyl to kill the 8cyl.

Funny thing was, after the race(s), the srt4 owner was telling it straight to everyone, while the ws6 owner was really really inflating how much he won by.

This thread is turning to [censored] and off topic as usual

Originally posted by livinsvt:
This thread is turning to [censored] and off topic as usual

It always does when it comes to the SRT4, from what I've seen in the past.

Originally posted by livinsvt:
This thread is turning to [censored] and off topic as usual

That's because people RESPOND to off topic posts!! EVERYONE is the reason they get off topic and EVERYONE possesses the ability to make it cease!! Am I the only one that sees that?

Originally posted by chknhwk:

Originally posted by livinsvt:
This thread is turning to [censored] and off topic as usual

That's because people RESPOND to off topic posts!! EVERYONE is the reason they get off topic and EVERYONE possesses the ability to make it cease!! Am I the only one that sees that?

I'm sorry.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by MystiqueSVT:

Originally posted by Tim:

Originally posted by ATL-SVT:

If that's the case then my bad, I never tried to beat a dead horse an FI my contour.

THe other comment about 500 hp was a bit of sarcasm on my part. There is more HP to be had with a proper tune albeit, nowhere near 500.

Dude, we bought our boost off a shelf; these guys took an already well-performing engine, some metal, a torch, some high-dollar grease, and lots of beer and more than doubled the amount of power than our cars put down stock, using less displacement than mine and probably about the same amount of boost as yours prior to your modding. I'd call that an accomplishment worthy of nothing but respect.

To say, "I never tried to beat a dead horse an FI my contour" is to skate on extremely thin ice. I would imagine the LS1 forum would have the same thing to say about a Neon. Represent for your old ride, man, even if your new one is faster

Tim

Oh yeah.......all us LS1 guys just love the Neon guys!
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168210&highlight=SRT4

Ya'll make yourselves sound worse than srt4 owners. I know f-body owners that act worse than srt4 owners and vice versa. Funny how people can't differentiate a car from a person. I think it's just the ws6 and ss owners are just mad because a stock $21k neon can come so close to beating them. And with just $3k, a srt4 could absolutely SMOKE a ws6. I know first hand what a stock srt4 vs. ws6 race looks like, and it won't take much for that 4cyl to kill the 8cyl.

Funny thing was, after the race(s), the srt4 owner was telling it straight to everyone, while the ws6 owner was really really inflating how much he won by.

First off.....yep...I'm responding to an off topic post. I've paid money for the server...so I feel I can do this just this once!

Dude. A stock Neon will not hang with a stock LS1...not even an A4 Convertible. They all run mid to low 13's.

Dude......with 3k an LS1 will be deep, deep into the low 11's. Heck...with a 150 shot I'd be into the high 11's.

Go here to get a clue. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/

Now...back on topic. Rick....you better get that beast in a magazine! Like SVT Barge said...go get it dynoed on a Dynojet instead of a Mustang and I guarantee you'll be hitting 400+ at the wheels. Mustangs always dyno low!

I wish people would learn how to READ. I never said a srt4 hangs with a ls1. I said CLOSE. And it is VERY CLOSE. I've seen it first hand between a 6 speed ws6 non-convertible and a srt4. But you keep telling yourself that you're untouchable but don't be surpised when a slightly modded "neon" beats you. With $3k, a srt4 won't be into the 11s, but for only one reason, TRACTION. Race between a $3k modificationed ls1 and a $3k modificationed (yes i know i'm making words up) srt4 on the highway would leave the ls1 owner in the srt4's rear view mirror. Nitrous doesn't really count as you can't run a big shot on a low compression 4cyl. Most of us do the majority of our driving off of the drag strip, so FWD isn't that huge of a disadvantage away from the strip. There are srt4 owners running 12s with street tires and less than 400hp. There are srt4s with slicks running into the 11s and still traction is a HUGE issue, but yeah, "neons" are too slow to "hang" with ls1's. ... It seems you and maybe most other ls1 owners don't wanna give credit when credit is due (to dodge/pvo/mopar).

Just don't be surprised when a modified srt4 meets you on the highway and then says bye-bye.

www.srtforums.com to get a clue,,, or actually ride in one, drive one, or race one.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
I wish people would learn how to READ. I never said a srt4 hangs with a ls1. I said CLOSE. And it is VERY CLOSE. I've seen it first hand between a 6 speed ws6 non-convertible and a srt4. But you keep telling yourself that you're untouchable but don't be surpised when a slightly modded "neon" beats you. With $3k, a srt4 won't be into the 11s, but for only one reason, TRACTION. Race between a $3k modificationed ls1 and a $3k modificationed (yes i know i'm making words up) srt4 on the highway would leave the ls1 owner in the srt4's rear view mirror. Nitrous doesn't really count as you can't run a big shot on a low compression 4cyl. Most of us do the majority of our driving off of the drag strip, so FWD isn't that huge of a disadvantage away from the strip. There are srt4 owners running 12s with street tires and less than 400hp. There are srt4s with slicks running into the 11s and still traction is a HUGE issue, but yeah, "neons" are too slow to "hang" with ls1's. ... It seems you and maybe most other ls1 owners don't wanna give credit when credit is due (to dodge/pvo/mopar).

Just don't be surprised when a modified srt4 meets you on the highway and then says bye-bye.

www.srtforums.com to get a clue,,, or actually ride in one, drive one, or race one.

I respect SRTs. I think they're cool little rides. I know what they are capable of.

http://srtforums.com/forums/timeslips.php

From reading the above link, it looks like the Mopar Stage II with Drag Radials is about right where my A4 vert runs. All I've got are Headers (I still have the stock exhaust) and a lid. That's it, it dynoed at 306 rwhp and 310 tq. A set of Nittos and a 3500 stall torque converter...the car will be in the mid to low 12's all day long with ZERO engine work. I'm still saving for this....O' the agony!!!

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/etdb.php

What's your best time so far?

Ok...enough about SRTs and LS1's.........back on topic....Rick's tour.

Rick..when are you finally getting that little beast to the track???? I will not be surprised if you can get a 12.5 @115-117.

Also...how fast does 1st gear go by? I've ridden in wavrdr's and 1st is almost useless....

Keep us posted!!

First is completely useless. Basically let out on the clutch give it a little gas and then short shift to 2nd. I'll be running on street tires this weekend hopefully at the track.

Rick

I'm anxiously awaiting the results.

Have you thought about putting in a different first gear to make it more useable? Maybe even changing the final drive ratio?

Originally posted by MystiqueSVT:
I'm anxiously awaiting the results.

Have you thought about putting in a different first gear to make it more useable? Maybe even changing the final drive ratio?

Final drive is changed to the Zetec final drive already... It needs more room for tire under there, no matter what the final drive is, LOL!

I will be stopped by Detroit to check out Rick's car this weekend. I just hope he has the time to take me for a ride, since he's dropping the exact setup in my Cougar... (drool) Can't wait...

E1

You have a PM, so I can quit hijacking this thread.