except for certian classic cars from ths sixtys fords lick the male lower extremity. the GT40 was and still is an excellent automobile, and anything shelby touched are of course great cars. These days the only thing which ford makes that remotly resembles a drag car is the mustang and that cant touch a camaro. I know you are all going to tell me "well.. mustang special vehicle teams has a car with an engine that i dont know how it works has this and that bolted to it, i dont know what any of them are or how they work, but it has 390 or 400 somthing HP(whatever that is) and it can beat a camaro" if you want to talk limited production suck on the '99 ZL1 it comes with a 572c.i.(thats 9.3L for losers) V8 with 770 HP and un imaginable torque runs from 0 to 60 in 2.7 seconds and gets a 10.4 in the 1/4. So pease get your family, soccor mom, almost mini van, grocery getters off of the track.

Um, the ZL-1 Camaro was a one-off prototype built by John Moss. It doesn't qualify as a limited run car because it isn't even street legal.

i guess i cant really argue you there, but we can just look at the ZL1 of '69 all aluminum 427 12:1 compression just under 600 HP from the factory, ford cant touch that. One other arguement, try rebuilding a ford smallblock then a chevy i can tell you which is better

Yeah, they were great cars, all 69 of them. Problem was, noone wanted to plunk down $7,200+ for a Camaro back in '69.

Oh, and it was only 430 Bhp and 450 pounds of torque, which is "under the 600" you mentioned.

Tommy's schoolin' the troll

We don't really like trolls here, maybe if you have something intelligent to discuss here real quick you'll avoid getting the post locked?

Oh, and BTW - which of the following three cars is not ceasing production a) Mustang b) Camaro c) Firebird

Oh dear, words don't describe your incredible lack of intelligence. I could probably count you're IQ level on my thumb.

What in the world prompted you to come on here and badmouth the blue oval? No friends I presume.

The Mustang still won the Pony Race, they don't even sell Camaros because they wern't selling compared to Mustangs. Don't get me wrong I love the Camaro (probably more than the Mustang).

Consider this:

Ford had no "supercar" like Chevy did with their Corvette. Ford had the potential to make their Mustang faster and faster without worrying about making it faster than some "supercar." Chevy couldn't put out a Camaro faster than it's own Corvette and sell it for way less than the Corvette. Of course we all know that the highest Camaro is basically a Corvette or vice versa. Chevy did a lot of damage to itself this way.

Chevy blames SUV popularity and that people don't want gashogs... hmmmmm there's a contridiction right there. They also blame the fact that people don't want sport cars any more... oh that explains why there's a shix load of Japanese sport cars comming over. The price was right but Mustangs still out did Chevy and Plastiacs.

Ford basically built a car that killed the competition. It's sad though, I mean it's great from the business aspect (i'm a marketing major so I love this) but no more rivalry. No more seeing a new camaro and mustang line up at the track...

Ford finally is changing the Mustang platform finally! Damn that cars been on the same platorm since the 70's.

So who's better?

Oh and why are you on a Ford Contour message board?

oh and isn't the ZL1 just a '99 concept car... and how much does it cost...

Give me some money and i'll make a Geo Metro faster than anything on 4, 3, 2 or 1 wheel.

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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So pease get your family, soccor mom, almost mini van, grocery getters off of the track.

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So i'm guessing you own a Camaro and got owned by a Contour LOL, it's okay man really just get some motion lotion and turn that frustration into good energy.

You can dissagree with my view of ford cars, but insulting my intellegence and social status, sounds like you dont have an actual arguement. As to the 430HP on the ZL1,it was under rated for insurance purposes. 430 was also the rating on the stock L71 427. I also think you all are missing my point. I have 2 main problems with fords. A) the contour is not a race car never has been it never will be. B) Chevy smallblock parts fit all chevy smallblocks regardless of displacement (granted a 283 crank will require some crazy bearrings in a 400 block it isnt ideal but it will work)not all ford 351 parts fit all ford 351s. You are also overlooking another statement i made. There are some cars made by ford that are absolutly excellent; shelby gt350/500 , gt40 , the shelby cobra (the 289 was an amazing little powerplant). I guess my real question is why you would spend a bunch of money on a 4 door car and all sorts of little kits and junk when you could buy a stock Z28 that would absolutly eat it.

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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I have 2 main problems with fords. A) the contour is not a race car never has been it never will be.

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Every heard of BTCC?

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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I guess my real question is why you would spend a bunch of money on a 4 door car and all sorts of little kits and junk when you could buy a stock Z28 that would absolutly eat it.

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I have had Z28 for lunch in a prior configuration at the dragstrip, and in the current configuration on a road course and SCCA, so don't try.

We spend money on the Contour, because we can.

If you are looking for a fight using 3000 lb automobiles, BRING IT!

What kind of HP is that running and what did it cost?

I drive my Contour every day, everywhere I go. Rain, snow, sleet, hail - can't be stopped. And I enjoy driving it all the time. Why does that bother you?

I take all the extra crap out of the car, drive it to the drag strip, and race it without doing anything else but window chalking my number and dial-in on. Heck, I have a trophy in my living room that I earned that way. From a bracket racing event organized by a GM club.

Guess what? You can bracket race just about anything, and that form of racing is more about driver skill than how fast the car is. I don't need a car that (direct from the showroom foor) can beat 90% of all other cars in a heads-up race in order to enjoy racing.

To say "such and such isn't a race car" is pretty ignorant, as there are a few different ways to race cars that don't depend on massive cubes for power.

I don't mind differing opinions, but with a name of "fordistrash", you start with one strike against you. Be careful where you take your debate, or you'll find it ended early and permanantly.

bracket racing can be done with any car the same with autocross. The racing i am talking about is the more nostalgic raw horsepower man PLUS machine VS. man PLUS machine where mechanic skill (weather it be the factory engineer or the backyard mechanic) is also a factor. To clear up any missconceptions i myself dont own a chevy. I am still interested in this mythical contour which beat a Z28. One more thing, a valid arguement does not include Bar Dar contour good Chevy bad you are stupid i beat chevy therfor it is bad (try coming up with a point, it wont kill you i promise)(that last comment was not directed at everyone, you know if it was directed at you)

Not every girl wants a pony...

Get it? We drive 27's because we like them...

Prior to buying my SVT:C i was given the following choices

94 Toyota Supra TT (yes it will kick the Camaro's ass)
98 Z28
99 GT Mustang
98 SVT Mustang

All in and around the same price range ($15k-$20k). Why did I choose the SVT instead? Because I like having a quick lil 4DOOR. I like the rarity and styling. I like the looks I get. I like having a backseat..if you know what I mean. I see Camaros and Mustangs all the time, I wanted something others didn't have. With a production number of under 11,000 SVT's total it's very attractive. I'm a fulltime college student and given what I want and my budget it worked for me. I would not own a Camaro over my SVT.

Think about what you are asking and why people buy Hondas and soup them up to smoke the very Mustangs and Camaros you talk about? Think about it... many of us had a choice and we made the one that we thought was best for us.

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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I guess my real question is why you would spend a bunch of money on a 4 door car and all sorts of little kits and junk when you could buy a stock Z28 that would absolutly eat it.

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Oh, and I'm not on a 'lack of size' avenging mission to beat every car on the road... get it yet?

Ok, so you've made your point. However, you've tried telling a Contour Enthusiast Group that Contours suck. What high horse did you ride into town on? If we all wanted Cameros, we could all probably go out and buy one.
Bob Dylan said it best: "You're in the wrong place my friend, you'd better leave."

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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I guess my real question is why you would spend a bunch of money on a 4 door car and all sorts of little kits and junk when you could buy a stock Z28 that would absolutly eat it.

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Go back to say 1995 and make a list of all the cars that came with 170hp or more, 5 speed manual transmission and 4 doors - oh yeah, and cost just a gnats ass over 20,000 dollars, and handled like they were on rails. You are going to find a mighty short list!

Move up to 1998 when the C-SVT's came out and competed against BMW 3 series and A4's in the auto mag comparisons, still for just a bit over 20,000 dollars. For the most part we are not here to compete against the pony car crowd, because we have grown up and for one reason or another are in the sport sedan market now. To compare our cars to anything else is pointless (though the few peopele here pushing d@mn near 300hp might take issue with that statement).

okay, "under ratted for insurance purposes" is that GROSS or Net power? GT 350 & 500 & cobras were built by shelby american, not ford. ford took over in late '67. and how much after inflation is that 69 zl-1? also, it was not avaikable to the general public. yes, i have rebuilt both chevy and ford. an engine is an engine. the corvette reverse rotation water pump will not fit all chevys, nor will the pieces from a 262 or 273.

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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You can dissagree with my view of ford cars, but insulting my intellegence and social status, sounds like you dont have an actual arguement. As to the 430HP on the ZL1,it was under rated for insurance purposes. 430 was also the rating on the stock L71 427. I also think you all are missing my point. I have 2 main problems with fords. A) the contour is not a race car never has been it never will be. B) Chevy smallblock parts fit all chevy smallblocks regardless of displacement (granted a 283 crank will require some crazy bearrings in a 400 block it isnt ideal but it will work)not all ford 351 parts fit all ford 351s. You are also overlooking another statement i made. There are some cars made by ford that are absolutly excellent; shelby gt350/500 , gt40 , the shelby cobra (the 289 was an amazing little powerplant). I guess my real question is why you would spend a bunch of money on a 4 door car and all sorts of little kits and junk when you could buy a stock Z28 that would absolutly eat it.

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FYI, I own a 3rd gen Camaro and a 98 Contour SVT. I own them for different reasons.

I bought my Camaro back in 92. It's great for sunny warm days with the t-tops off, the V-8 roaring and Stevie Ray Vaugn blasting out of my sound system. This car is a fair weather friend:

It gets sideways in the rain and it hates snow, whether a dusting or 6+ inches.
I can't carry more than one passenger.
My back hurts on anything more than a 2 hour drive.
Cops follow me and I'm not some teenager punk looking for a street race.
My neighbors hate when I pull in a 3AM with the car or leave at 7AM for work.
Insurance - I don't want to talk about it.
Mustang owners rev at me.
Fourth Gen F-Body owners won't talk to me, except for a select few.
Around town, this thing drinks gas faster than an open bar at a Kennedy wedding.

Now for my Contour SVT. I had a 90 Isuzu Trooper for a bad weather/city vehicle. The SUV was on it's last legs and I was looking for a replacement. My friend back in May bought a Contour SVT to keep the high milage off his leased 4Runner. I drove it and fell in love with the car. So I looked around and bought one a month later. I had to drive from Philly to Baltimore to get the car. It's a great car:

Limited edition - less than 10,000 made total.
4 doors - I can carry people around without cramming them in the back.
Leather seats that fit me perfectly. This is a long haul car.
The car looks good.
Insurance for a 4 door is much cheaper.
Stick shift - need I say more.
Happy revving V-6. Once the secondary valves open, this car takes off.
I don't feel like a redneck when taking a date out (Rarely happens lately).
This car can handle like noone's business. I have taken my Camaro AutoXing and this SVT could probably procuce faster times even with a smaller motor.


*Bottom Line - People buy different cars for different reasons. I raced Bracket racing for the first time this past weekend with my SVT. It was my first time taking the SVT or even a stick shift car to the track. I beat out two V-8 Mustangs before losing in the third round when I lost my concentration (see quiz post for full story).

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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bracket racing can be done with any car the same with autocross. The racing i am talking about is the more nostalgic raw horsepower man PLUS machine VS. man PLUS machine where mechanic skill (weather it be the factory engineer or the backyard mechanic) is also a factor. To clear up any missconceptions i myself dont own a chevy. I am still interested in this mythical contour which beat a Z28. One more thing, a valid arguement does not include Bar Dar contour good Chevy bad you are stupid i beat chevy therfor it is bad (try coming up with a point, it wont kill you i promise)(that last comment was not directed at everyone, you know if it was directed at you)

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The hotest club in racing is the SCCA, might want to tell them their mechanic skill is lacking. Some of us like to turn corners... even GM owners do it sometimes. I've even seen Camaros and Mustangs (yes, even the Z28's and GT350/500/Boss which all came to be because of Trans Am series ROAD RACING) all misused to turn corners apparently.

There are some things a Contour can't do well as a dedicated drag car, but it is fast enough to be fun at the drag strip. I've been accused of spraying to win against cars I *shouldn't* have beat... still hasn't been anybody that can find NAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWSSSSSSSSS on my baby... I do well because Duratec parts swap in place of other Duratec parts...

I, for one, will miss the GM pony cars. It's just to bad that more HP couldn't fix what was wrong with it in time to save the GM vs. Ford era.

BTW, what DO you own?

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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i guess i cant really argue you there, but we can just look at the ZL1 of '69 all aluminum 427 12:1 compression just under 600 HP from the factory, ford cant touch that.

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I take it you've never heard of a 427 Cammer? It's a SOHC 427 that Ford produced starting in 1964. They were factory rated at 616 hp through a single 4 barrel carb, or 658hp through two 4 barrels . Much like the ZL1 it was intended as a race only engine, but many of them did find their way onto the street.

Now may I point out the absurdity of arguing which car company is better based on very limited edition engines that were produced more than 30 years ago? Or the flawed logic that an engine family is great simply because you can swap parts from a 327 into a 383? Or the stupidity of the idea of coming onto a Ford enthusiasts site and trying to argue that Ford sucks by citing a concept car from 1999 that IIRC broke down while Car and Driver was trying to do a head to head against a similarly prepared Mustang.

Bob

Why don't you ask that 3.8L camaro I smoke with my little 2.5L stock at the darg the other day. HAHA! and then he accussed me of having N2O which they never found.

But everyone has a F Body car.... there are to many of them. But if you feel the need to fit in then buy a F-body.

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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bracket racing can be done with any car the same with autocross. The racing i am talking about is the more nostalgic raw horsepower man PLUS machine VS. man PLUS machine where mechanic skill (weather it be the factory engineer or the backyard mechanic) is also a factor. To clear up any missconceptions i myself dont own a chevy. I am still interested in this mythical contour which beat a Z28. One more thing, a valid arguement does not include Bar Dar contour good Chevy bad you are stupid i beat chevy therfor it is bad (try coming up with a point, it wont kill you i promise)(that last comment was not directed at everyone, you know if it was directed at you)

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If it wasn't for Henry Ford... Chevy wouldn't been invented... The new Cobra and Lighting will destory most stock F-Bodys. But you are comparing your 8 Cyl. to our 6 Cyl. Compare a Chevy 6 to ours and then let me know what you find. I have raced pleanty of 6 Cyl camaro's. It's not even close. I have race 2 Z28's and i beat them too. But it's your opinion too. But at least we can drive our car everyday, including rain and snow. All a F-Body does in wet weather is spin.......

In reply to:

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There are some things a Contour can't do well as a dedicated drag car, but it is fast enough to be fun at the drag strip. I've been accused of spraying to win against cars I *shouldn't* have beat... still hasn't been anybody that can find NAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWSSSSSSSSS on my baby... I do well because Duratec parts swap in place of other Duratec parts...

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I get this all the time..... NASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS lol

GM guys always say, "We got the Camaro.." But, 99% of the rest of GM is crap. They have the Grand AM and Malibu to match Ford'sedans, what jokes.

Nobody here is looking to beat 350 V8's. Get a life..

You wanna know why I drive a contour? Try to get a late model Malibu to do a sub 15 second 1/4 mile or take a hairpin corner at 40mph+.

i didn't read it all, but this guy is coming in here to tell us fords suck?!?!? that's funny, true world's fastest street legal car is a camaro with something like a 632 and 350hp shot of nitrous, but i can out handle it ... mustangs are some killa cars, the main car you'll see at nearly any track (though some people mess them up by dropping chevy engines into them ) , svt cobra is one of the best,fastest, most affordable new performance cars out there, and it actually handles pretty well. and our cars look better

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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except for certian classic cars from ths sixtys fords lick the male lower extremity. the GT40 was and still is an excellent automobile, and anything shelby touched are of course great cars. These days the only thing which ford makes that remotly resembles a drag car is the mustang and that cant touch a camaro. I know you are all going to tell me "well.. mustang special vehicle teams has a car with an engine that i dont know how it works has this and that bolted to it, i dont know what any of them are or how they work, but it has 390 or 400 somthing HP(whatever that is) and it can beat a camaro" if you want to talk limited production suck on the '99 ZL1 it comes with a 572c.i.(thats 9.3L for losers) V8 with 770 HP and un imaginable torque runs from 0 to 60 in 2.7 seconds and gets a 10.4 in the 1/4. So pease get your family, soccor mom, almost mini van, grocery getters off of the track.

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On behalf of the CEG...

Let me be that last of many to say: "Go the F*ck away! F*in troll!"

There's a few cars around here pushing the same power as a camaro ss and seeing as how YOU DON'T HAVE ONE then there are even more who could school you in a race.

warmonger

have u ever heard of a 10L boss mustang.

598 cu in. 10L V8
850hp
800tq
0-60 1.9s
10.xx s 1/4 time


btw, i love the poster of the camaro that says "30 years of total domination"......yet were gonna drop the car.

that boss sounds excellent, never heard of it before , but it sounds pretty sweet. I never dissed contours as a family car i just dont see them on the track. As to the supra twin turbo kicking a camaro's ass: try a twin turbo on the camero see what happens. Once again i see the IQ from some of you shooting through the roof(heavy sarcasm implied) try making a point, it doesnt take any intellegence to diss someone with different views as you. Raising a little mayhem is a good way to learn things you dont know (i.e. i didnt know about that boss mustang nor was i aware that shelby wasnt always with ford, altough i think he always used thier powerplants). To address the break in production of camaro. Mustang is mainly sustained by chicks who think they are cute and dont care if it is the pos v6 auto (i think we can all agree that a pony car like mustang or camaro sucks with a v6 auto). I will give ford one thing, they offer many different models with lots of different options so they have somthing for everyone, good marketing. Despite that i am not a big fan of their vehicles...

There is a chevy with a 350 that was equiped with twin turbos, callaway made it and it went 254.1 mph. Niether Ferrari nor Porche could beat it in an all out top speed contest and that was 1989... supra cant touch that

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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that boss sounds excellent, never heard of it before , but it sounds pretty sweet. i didnt know about that boss mustang nor was i aware that shelby wasnt always with ford, altough i think he always used thier powerplants).

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I see you too show your IQ.... so all those shelby dodge cars used ford motors???? now that's an interseting thing...
I would of thought that the dodge viper which shelby helped with used a dodge motor not a ford one.... but hey you are the all knowing car god so tell us how it is

ooh and if you care to find out more about the 10L boss mustag try going on to fords SVT site and click on the concept lab....

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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There is a chevy with a 350 that was equiped with twin turbos, callaway made it and it went 254.1 mph. Niether Ferrari nor Porche could beat it in an all out top speed contest and that was 1989... supra cant touch that

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Do you really believe this engine used anything that came out of a GM owned factory? It used an aftermarket block, aftermarket heads, custom intake manifold, aftermarket crank, rods, pistons, waterpump, oil system, valvetrain etc. Even the bolts holding the alternator on were probably aftermarket. The only reason they call it a small block chevy is because the bore spacing and the cylinder head bolt pattern are the same as small block chevy.

What were the displacements of the Porsche and the Ferrari in this competition? I'm guessing 3.2L (195 cu. in.) for the Porsche, and the F40's 2.9L (177 cu. in) for the Ferrari. So basically a "no holds barred" Chevy engine was able to make more power than two other "no holds barred" engines that were approximately half the size of the Chevy engine. Wow, there's a shocker.

If Porsche or Ferrari wanted to beat Chevy in those competitions, they would have had no problem. When's the last time GM won a Formula 1 title? It wasn't Porsche and Ferrari and Chevy in that competition, it was aftermarket companies.

You have yet to state one good point in your argument. Basically all you've proven is that there is good aftermarket support for one engine GM makes. Please just give up now and move on to the next forum you want to antagonize.

Bob

The Camaro (in any factory produced model) couldn't compete with a Ford Mclaren F1 (from the factory the world's fastest car).
Hell, even the new Vette can't compete with it.
The F1 might be expensive, but it was a factory produced Ford car.

Originally posted by Sleeper:

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The Camaro (in any factory produced model) couldn't compete with a Ford Mclaren F1 (from the factory the world's fastest car).
Hell, even the new Vette can't compete with it.
The F1 might be expensive, but it was a factory produced Ford car.

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What?? Not to come to the rescue of this camaro clown, but i have to ask... What is a Ford McLaren F1?

-Mark

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, the McLaren F1 uses a BMW powerplant.

Either way, this is turning into a catfight consisting of "I know this one brand car that can beat this other brand car." LAME.

Listen, Fordistrash, if you want to hang around and learn something, please feel free to do so (but you should change your name ). If you wanna bash our cars, ideas, and members, please leave.

Its a Ford re-enginered BMW power plant.
Still, its a Ford car.

Since you're talking souped up Camaro... how about the Jun Supras or Top Secret Supras? Now there are two fair comparisons. The Akira Supra top speed was 249.292mph, out of a hellbent 6... that still looks like a street Supra

Do a quick search on the net on the Supra, there are streetable Supras (STREET LEGAL) capable of pulling 8's and 9's. Fastest SS TT i've seen pulls the same out of a v8. The Supra does this out a i6.

But that's not important.

You need to lay off the crack. Have you gone to every other board and proficized you BS yet? Go tell the Honda and Nissan people or the IS300 folks. If people like you are effective in your message I can think of several Drag Strips closing down due to lack of business.

Get over it man, you're all too emotional ( <you) take a pill and chill. What did the Contour do to you? Did you lose a girl over it? Your dignity? Or where u mad because some Grocery getting 4 door beat some Camaro?

Don't get all butt hurt because one or two Contours want to check how they're car is performing at your strip. Give me another institution that provides this at a good cost.

Originally posted by Sleeper:

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Its a Ford re-enginered BMW power plant.
Still, its a Ford car.

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I think you need to do a little more research there

try this site for starters: McLaren Cars, LTD.

The car was designed by Gordon Murray & Ron Dennis and built completely inhouse @ McLaren with the exception of the BMW powerplant.

-Mark

I was under the impression that the motor had some rework done by Ford, guess I was wrong.

But I was just making a point about the cars.

The McLaren F1 is a Ford that from the factory will whoop @ss on any Camaro from the factory.

Sorry for any details I got wrong.

You missed the point - a McLaren F1 is a McLaren, not a ford.

Hasn't anyone ever told you guys not to feed the trolls? That said the key reason I have a Conout is for the 170 hp v6 matted to the (heres the key) MTX. Most car manufactures in North america don't offer this combo now and day, and sadly nor does Ford anymore. Unless you move to the Lincoln LS. I really don't know what my next car will be as a result of this but I'm guessing I'll be moving to some foreign car like a BMW or something.

In reply to:

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Once again i see the IQ from some of you shooting through the roof(heavy sarcasm implied) try making a point, it doesnt take any intellegence to diss someone with different views as you. Raising a little mayhem is a good way to learn things you dont know (i.e. i didnt know about that boss mustang nor was i aware that shelby wasnt always with ford, altough i think he always used thier powerplants).

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Raising mayhem appears to be your whole goal when you show up out of nowhere to insult us on our own forum. We call that trolling. Perhaps you are moving around the net with some noble intent to convince others that your opinion is correct, but this does not appear to be the case when you make statements (quoted below) such as your opening post and subsequent posts. You are either inciting conflict or are very thick-headed in thinking you are making intelligent conversation. Then AFTER you make these statements you attempt to convince us that you wanted intelligent discussion. I would say more and argue many intelligent points, but you will throw up even more examples of hearsay about cars don't even own, citing facts you can't properly support, or siting facts that are outright wrong.
I almost feel like I am wasting my time explaining to you why some of us won't take the time to argue with you, but then this in itself is an argument. So I guess you could say I am responding to the only intelligent argument that you made, the fact that we resorted to expletives. So far nothing else merrits all the attention you are getting so if you want to make a good point, take some time and write an essay to post that we can read.

warmonger

In reply to:

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except for certian classic cars from ths sixtys fords lick the male lower extremity.

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In reply to:

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So pease get your family, soccor mom, almost mini van, grocery getters off of the track.

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Wow....Can't say much after reading this.....Dissing fords huh....Better stay away from My Family! LoL... You mention chevy's interchange ability.....well....True, a lot of parts interchange and even sometimes between a bbc and a sbc....But Fords are about the same. Plenty of windsors with cleveland heads.....Hell.....a 302 and a 351 have the same bore!! Machine work is amazing....And my STOCK 351W block will have no problem running 6" CHEVY rods!!.....Go to your local dragstrip and park your self behind the burnout box....Bend over and take a nice look at all the rearends under those "camaro's or any chevy that puts down decent power....What kind of rear is under there.....I bet 9/10 are FORD 9"s or some sort of fabricated Ford 9" rear. You have no point mr fordistrash....so leave...or get some proff that your "opinion" is better the mine/fords.

If you don't want to leave, post your IP and I will make sure you go away!

why do I drive a Contour?

I think it is because I can take it to the strip run a sub 15 sec 1/4, after that run it at an auto-x and take home a top 3 finish in my class. After that, load up the wife and kids and take it on vacation. Getting 25+ mpg, fit all of our luggage in the trunk, and also get all of those long stares and positive comments. "No way that's a Ford!" or "There's is a Ford I'd drive." Just to name a few. So if I had a Z28/SS camaro it could only do ONE of those things better than my lil ol Contour...beat it at the drag strip. Am I missing anything?

-neal

The reason he doesn't see contours at the track is because we don't have a track here I know this guy...lol anyway yeah in bismarck we have no tracks except for the airport scca autocross everynow and again but anyway my thoughts on this entire post
peace

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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I have 2 main problems with fords.

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Lets just agree that you have 2 main problems period...

reason i bought my 'tour over a chevy is i didn't want a cavalier with more miles and problems than my 'tour, not to mention it would be slower,, ford should change slogan to something to do with value on used cars,,, ok that doesn't make sense, but u know what i'm saying.

Originally posted by Dan Nixon:

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Originally posted by fordistrash:

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I have 2 main problems with fords.

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Lets just agree that you have 2 main problems period...

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LMAO!

I cannot believe you people, you have fallen, and fallen hard for the classic troll!

i can see two examples of this right now. One, there is too much comparing apples to bananas, j-spec. imports cant really be compared to the american v8 (btw there is no replacement for displacment, anything which can be done to a little I6 or I4 can be done to a larger engine for larger power and lets not forget touque which is a very important factor in drag racing). Two, the ford vs chevy arguement will never end, they both have pros and cons and the "one up" cycle will never end. One question, why is it that you ford folks seem to always bring in imports(which are superior to domestics) to argue with?

you are all so disgusted with my posts(as you well should be) its funny you all took time out of your "super busy" days to reply

Originally posted by Rara:

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I cannot believe you people, you have fallen, and fallen hard for the classic troll!

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I think it's the same as when someone gets month old carton of milk out of the fridge, smells it and recoils in horror, then tells me to smell it to see if it's bad. I know I shouldn't smell it, but I just can't help myself. I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, that it only encourages more trolls, but I just can't help myself. I think I need help.

Bob

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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you are all so disgusted with my posts(as you well should be) its funny you all took time out of your "super busy" days to reply

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Please exclude me from the "all" comment for I am bored off my ass at work and was just replying to your comments.

Just for the record, what do you drive?

Oh, and another interesting tidbit I forgot to mention in the beginning: The 99 ZL-1 you mentioned really started life as a 94-97 Camaro and then the decided to freshen up the car with new front and rear end clips of a 99 model. I gotta admit, that car is badass. John Moss has some incredible "concept cars". I don't know if you saw the new all wheel drive six cylinder twin turbo Trailblazer. Just so wicked.

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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you are all so disgusted with my posts(as you well should be) its funny you all took time out of your "super busy" days to reply

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WTF, look at the fool who had nothing better to do than start this whole debacle! We drive fords...deal with it. You want to talk smack, do it over at your chebby site.

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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you are all so disgusted with my posts(as you well should be) its funny you all took time out of your "super busy" days to reply

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look whose talking...

off to my SUPERDUPER BUSY LIFE NOW

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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One question, why is it that you ford folks seem to always bring in imports(which are superior to domestics) to argue with?

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hmm.... i see corvette, camaro and other lower model chevy's comparing themselves to imports all the time... go to the other boards.

You're a troll, so you already classifed us - you don't realize this because it's easier to critize what you see on the outside but go look at the very groups you defend.

you my friend, are a dumbass. I am no longer looking at this post because you accuse us of being the very person you are. email me if you want to comment further.

the subject says it all, looser

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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One, there is too much comparing apples to bananas.

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I agree wholeheartedly. I present Exhibit A, "Limited Production vs. zero Production"

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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...if you want to talk limited production suck on the '99 ZL1 it comes with a 572c.i.(thats 9.3L for losers) V8 with 770 HP and un imaginable torque runs from 0 to 60 in 2.7 seconds and gets a 10.4 in the 1/4...

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Exhibit B, "Contour vs. pony car":

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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why you would spend a bunch of money on a 4 door car and all sorts of little kits and junk when you could buy a stock Z28 that would absolutly eat it

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Exhibit C, "Camaro is the bomb vs. I don't own a Chevy":

Originally posted by fordistrash:

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To clear up any missconceptions i myself dont own a chevy

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Pray tell, what do you own?

What is your favorite pick from the 2003 GM model line, and why?

What is your favorite pick from the 2003 Ford model line, and why?

Mods......PLEASE make this thread go away!

The ZL1 started out as a 94 Camaro, I have even seen this car at Mason Dixon Dragway in Hagerstown MD about 6 years ago... It is a concept, not limited production, well I guess it was limited to 1 if you want to make that argument... And yes the 69 ZL1 was underrated for it's HP, it made closer to 500, not near 600, but that was common with the muscle cars of the era...

Cougar Bob I believe made the statement about the Porche(sp?) and the F40, I know the porche has a 3.2L but I thought the F40's had a V12... 2.9L is an awful small V12, I could be wrong, maybe your talking about a different F40...

I think a lot of people, (especially fordistrash) are missing the big picture. Ford and GM have been competing for decades over who is the better car in every aspect. Especially the sports cars. Both have there ups, both have there downs, but it has really been eachother that has bettered one-another by competition. It is not to be the best, (because no matter how good you are, there's always somebody better) it's for the love of the game. No Ford minds being beat by a chevy (or vica-versa) we just hate being beat.. that is why we all strive to better ourselves. If you can't understand that... go do a crossword puzzle, I'll be cutting the resonator off my contour. Don't dis my car with one that isn't even remotely in the same class or price range. A camaro or z1 or whatever. When you can put my wife, twins, and a ton of luggage into a camaro, and drive 600 miles to michigan in december, then we can compare, until then find something to better yourself instead of making yourself look like a complete idiot. And until you meet a contour with your corsica on a drag strip, or post some time slips for your cavalier, your just running your mouth, and wasting space on our site. and as for our "busy lives" this is our hobby, everybody has to have one. A positive one will change your life for the better. You should try it, instead of wasting our time with your sensless Yama-Yama-Yama!!!

Originally posted by Brad10071977:

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If you can't understand that... go do a crossword puzzle, I'll be cutting the resonator off my contour.

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LMAO ....that should be the CEG moto.
><>David<><

Originally posted by SVTMini-Flea:

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Originally posted by Brad10071977:

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If you can't understand that... go do a crossword puzzle, I'll be cutting the resonator off my contour.

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LMAO ....that should be the CEG moto.
><>David<><

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in the case of the zetec, i'll be cutting my three resonators off

Originally posted by SonOfABoss:

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Cougar Bob I believe made the statement about the Porche(sp?) and the F40, I know the porche has a 3.2L but I thought the F40's had a V12... 2.9L is an awful small V12, I could be wrong, maybe your talking about a different F40

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Actually, it's a 2936cc twin-turbo V8...'bout a 1/2mm smaller bore than our 2.5L, but with a short, 69.5mm stroke.

Originally posted by Blk560:

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Originally posted by SonOfABoss:

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Cougar Bob I believe made the statement about the Porche(sp?) and the F40, I know the porche has a 3.2L but I thought the F40's had a V12... 2.9L is an awful small V12, I could be wrong, maybe your talking about a different F40

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Actually, it's a 2936cc twin-turbo V8...'bout a 1/2mm smaller bore than our 2.5L, but with a short, 69.5mm stroke.

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Damn I was wrong lol I always thought the F40 had a V12 in it, like the other super car which I can't spell the name of, lambo...something another lol

You know all this is going on because this dude lost some hot ass girl to the guy with the Contour Personally i think he should hop back in his Geo Metro with the APC stickers , and the fart can, and try to find a hill to roll down. With any luck there will be a large cliff at the end of it. You're out of your league bro. Maybe you should go bug the Honda boys. I heard they were talking crap about your spinach souffle you prepared for them at the last Girl Scout meeting. Peace!

Originally posted by SVTMike99:

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You know all this is going on because this dude lost some hot ass girl to the guy with the Contour Personally i think he should hop back in his Geo Metro with the APC stickers , and the fart can, and try to find a hill to roll down. With any luck there will be a large cliff at the end of it. You're out of your league bro. Maybe you should go bug the Honda boys. I heard they were talking crap about your spinach souffle you prepared for them at the last Girl Scout meeting. Peace!

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LOL

This dude talks trash about Ford. But truthfully Ford came out with the first pony car then chevy came out with the Camaro then Firebird. So if it wasn't for the Mustang the Camaro would not even be here. Also you cant foreget about the Cuda like the AAR Cuda and the Himi Cuda and the Callenger R/T all pony cars also because of the mustang. And which is left in production well lets see, Mustang. And the trend now days is 4dr cars with power because we are grown up now and have families.

My dream car is a '71 cuda w/ hemi and a shaker hood in either plum crazy purple or competition yellow , I guess I will be dreaming for a long time haha, but I have wanted one since I saw one on shadetree mechanic when I was around 10 yrs old

the new mach 1s will have shaker hood scoops... they look nice, not as nice as supercharged cobra, but nice. they need to go back to using an aluminum block though.

I love that new Mach 1. But I'm saving for a 70 cougar either drop-top or Eliminator in compitition orange. The new motor trend has the '05 mustange prototype it looks like a 66 to 69 stang. But hay no camaro well I never liked the new camaro's they are way too fat in the hips. My mom had an '84 camaro with V8 and T-tops it was nice but hay. The mustange lives on.

the new body change mustang will look awesome, i love the retro styling with the some new styling. you know you can get old style back window louvers like old stangs had for new stangs,, they look real nice. i'd rather have a base model camaro over a comparable year base mustang, but the svt cobra would probably be my pick over a SS.

Okay, I am going to settle this arguement.

Everyone is right, and everyone is wrong. Both car companies have made some great stuff, and they have made some junk. Let me further my point:

I work for a racing engine school called ETC Racing Programs. (www.etcracingprograms.com) Our business is teaching people how to build high performance racing engines. All we do all day everyday is racing engine related. We teach the UAW factory workers how to build race motors. The people who teach our classes are professional racing engine builders that build NASCAR, NHRA, IHRA, BUSCH, WINSTON CUP, SCCA, need I say more? Now that you know that I am qualified, here is the truth: all engines are the same. There is NO DIFFERENCE between a chevy motor and a ford motor or a BMW motor for that matter. Any engine is good, if they follow the rules.

Any engine is good if all the proper machining techniques are followed. That means all the cylinders are are 90 degrees to the crankshaft, the main bore is straight, the crank is indexed, basically the engine is "blueprinted."

Part of our running our class is buying engines. We have seen junk from FORD and GM. We purchase crate motors for class use. We have 302's, 351's 514's from ford and 454's and 350's from GM. When we get these engines, we check things like line bore, piston to wall clearance, piston to valve clearance, bearing clearance, etc. Every single engine we recieve has something wrong with it. It doesn't matter if it's GM or Ford. As far as which engine comes from the facory with more power, We've dyno'ed a lot of GM crate engines that say they make 300 at the flywheel, and when we engine dyno them, they only make 260.

Both brands of engine can and will make awesome amounts of horsepower, despite what's cast into the block. It really doesn't matter how they came from the factory, I PROMISE EVERY PERSON HERE that if you took a crate ford or chevy engine, blueprinted and balanced it, you would make 50-70 bhp at the flywheel. They are that messed up from the factory. GM and FORD have to put out hundreds of motors a day. Do you really thing they are going to make every single one perfect to the ten thousands of an inch they need to be? No.

We have students that are making 1500 horsepower from a ford big block, we also have students running 2000 bhp mopar engine.

The bottom line is they are all the same, you can make anything go fast, you just have to have the attention to detail to do it right.

There is no special magic to having a fast engine; they all have rods, pistons, rocker arms, etc. Making them all work together correctly is just and making them go fast is just a matter of doing the job right the first time.

Some very nice info tgrimes! Man where can I sign up for that class

Originally posted by Locster:

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This dude talks trash about Ford. But truthfully Ford came out with the first pony car then chevy came out with the Camaro then Firebird. So if it wasn't for the Mustang the Camaro would not even be here. Also you cant foreget about the Cuda like the AAR Cuda and the Himi Cuda and the Callenger R/T all pony cars also because of the mustang. And which is left in production well lets see, Mustang. And the trend now days is 4dr cars with power because we are grown up now and have families.

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Actually Pontiac came out with the 1st pony car, the 64 GTO, then Mustangs, then Camaros... And I believe (correct me if I am wrong) the GTO was offered in 63 as an upgrade to the tempest (sp?)

Originally posted by Champagne96GL:

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My dream car is a '71 cuda w/ hemi and a shaker hood in either plum crazy purple or competition yellow , I guess I will be dreaming for a long time haha, but I have wanted one since I saw one on shadetree mechanic when I was around 10 yrs old

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Don't steal my dream car, bat rastard lol Ahhh gotta love those HEMI engines, and the style of the Cuda, nothing fits more perfectly together than that...

Originally posted by SonOfABoss:

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Actually Pontiac came out with the 1st pony car, the 64 GTO, then Mustangs, then Camaros... And I believe (correct me if I am wrong) the GTO was offered in 63 as an upgrade to the tempest (sp?)

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OK now. The GTO is not a pony car, it does not fit the catagory. The GTO, Torino, Charger, Cyclones, Road Runners, GTX,... etc....are a different class of cars. They are moreoften refered to as musclecars. Pony cars are smaller cars usually 4 seaters, with engine options that ranged from mild to wild. They are called pony cars because of the mustang, and when Ford launched the Mustang there was nothing out there like it. But yes the GTO was an upgraded Tempest. The Tempest and GTO allways shared the same body.

In reply to:

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Originally posted by Rara:
I cannot believe you people, you have fallen, and fallen hard for the classic troll!



I think it's the same as when someone gets month old carton of milk out of the fridge, smells it and recoils in horror, then tells me to smell it to see if it's bad. I know I shouldn't smell it, but I just can't help myself. I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, that it only encourages more trolls, but I just can't help myself. I think I need help.

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LMAO!!! So true..

1) I agree with everyone here. Comming on to this site trying to have decent, civilized debate, with a name like FORDISTRASH.....You are so trippin if you think were going to take you seriously. Your entitled to your opinion,, but what comes down to it, you just badmouthing us becasue we like fords. And thats more disrespect than a debate.

2) I agree with You on one thing...There is no replacement for displacement. But remember one thing too....It also comes down to money. You can have a V8 Camaro and little cash and 4 cylinders will kick your a$$ all day. Why? Becasue they spent less on the car and put more in. Also if your "rich" and you buy a V8, you can do un godly things to it.....So If your "rich" (or even just well off), and you buy a Contour you can do pertty much what ever you want becasuse money talks ( well there ar limitations like how much punishment the block and other scientific things)So any way you place it...it comes to money. Which a lot of people today don't ahve a lot of.

So as you can see...We here make due with what we got and are proud of our cars. Ours may not be the fastest out there but there definitly some of the rarest! So the next time you see a Contour on the street think twice before you decided to race it...Cause you never know....it just might be me!

ROZZY
'99 SVT
KKM Cold air induction
MTX 75 Euro Spec. w/ Quaife TB LSD
Fidenza FlyWheel (11.6 pounds )
B&M Short Shifter
Lead Foot (20 More Horse Power lol)
Recent MODS:
MSDS Headers
Custom 3 inch exahust w/ dualmagnaflow mufflers (no cat)
Chip

Originally posted by FLuiDSVT:

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Mods......PLEASE make this thread go away!

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!eh hem!

honestly, why the hell did u take the time to fill out everything just to come on here and bad mouth us...your not wanted or welcome here so go away!

Originally posted by Locster:

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Originally posted by SonOfABoss:

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Actually Pontiac came out with the 1st pony car, the 64 GTO, then Mustangs, then Camaros... And I believe (correct me if I am wrong) the GTO was offered in 63 as an upgrade to the tempest (sp?)

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OK now. The GTO is not a pony car, it does not fit the catagory. The GTO, Torino, Charger, Cyclones, Road Runners, GTX,... etc....are a different class of cars. They are moreoften refered to as musclecars. Pony cars are smaller cars usually 4 seaters, with engine options that ranged from mild to wild. They are called pony cars because of the mustang, and when Ford launched the Mustang there was nothing out there like it. But yes the GTO was an upgraded Tempest. The Tempest and GTO allways shared the same body.

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actually there was something like the mustang when it was released...the barracuda. it actually beat the mustang to market but they didnt fare well in the A body models especially the 64-66 ones. its popularity all stemmed from the E body model,70-74. just a little more useless info.