New dyno result: 200+ fwhp NA 2.5L SVT

200hp on a Mustang dyno from a NA a 2.5? I seriously doubt it.

Edit - info added on my car:

Mustang dyno:
Max Power: 202.4 @ 6500 RPM
Max Torque: 177.0 @ 5750 RPM

My mods of note at the time of dyno:
3.0 hybrid
Ported & polished heads
SHM long tube headers
Extrude Honed Power Flow UIM
65mm throttle body, optimized
AFE 8" filter w/ heat shield
Bassani cat-back exhaust
Torsen LSD
SPEC Stage 1 clutch
SPEC flywheel

that's exactly what I wanted to say. With the amount of work it would take to get a 2.5L there you could just drop in a 3L.

Question is, did we believe it? In a word...NO. Were we surprised? Yes. Could it be a fluke? Could be. Could be ideal weather conditions, could be ??? Following this run, the first thing we checked was calibration. It was on the money. Then we put a FF AC Cobra on the Dyno, that had known Dyno numbers from another MD Dyno in Florida that the customer had purchased and transported in. He wanted to verify his numbers and Dyno sheet he received when he purchased the car, and as he put it, wanted to make sure he had been "told the truth about the power output".
425 HP and 437 ft/lbs in Florida. 420 HP and 436 ft/lbs on ours.
What does all this tell us? We are not sure except to say we knew it made 110 HP with the exhaust plugged. 33.7 psi of back pressure. We installed new plugs, wires, exhaust and raised the rev limiter and installed a tune. Those are the numbers it spit out.
One other comment. Last year we did a 69 BB Chevelle. A 90 HP gain. Did our customer believe it? NO. That was, until he hit the track. He previous best ever was a 12.80. His new ET? 11.90.

Ron

Originally posted by GTO Pete:
200hp on a Mustang dyno from a NA a 2.5? I seriously

Disreguarding the idea of just bolt-ons, Mumm Brothers had i believe 295 hp out of their n/a 2.5 race engine.

I'm basing my hesitation to believe the 2.5 #s based on his mods.

98 2.5 liter SVT:
MSDS
SHO-shop Y
2.5" catback
xcal2
63mm TB
K&N 3530
Quaife
SpecII
UR fly
Nima UD pullies

Mustang dyno:
Max Power: 211 hp
Max Torque: 174 tq

vs.

As a basis for comparison, the day the dyno on my (former) 3 liter was done, several other SVTs dynod and put down typical Mustang dyno numbers.

Here's an example of a dyno of an SVT from the same day as mine:

11/13/04
2000 2.5 liter
MSDS Jet-Hot coated
MSDS y-pipe Jet-Hot coated
Bassani exhaust
Extrude Honed Power Flow UIM
K&N intake

Mustang dyno:
Max Power: 171.6 @ 6750 RPM
Max Torque: 145.3 @ 5500 RPM

vs.

Date: 11/13/04
3.0 hybrid
Ported & polished heads
SHM long tube headers
Extrude Honed Power Flow UIM
65mm throttle body, optimized
AFE 8" filter w/ heat shield
Bassani cat-back exhaust
Torsen LSD
SPEC Stage 1 clutch
SPEC flywheel

Mustang dyno:
Max Power: 202.4 @ 6500 RPM
Max Torque: 177.0 @ 5750 RPM

I'm not calling this bs or anything, I'm just having a trouble believing that a 2.5 with much fewer mods put down more than a heavily modded 3.0.

we def need a second dyno comparison.

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
I'm pretty sure he dyno'd his 2.5L, at around 195/6fwhp.

About 193/172 before many major mods. (duals, TwEECer, UIM, LIM)

I never dyno'd after those mods. ~200 wheels would have been a decent "assumption."

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
I'm pretty sure he dyno'd his 2.5L, at around 195/6fwhp.

About 193/172 before many major mods. (duals, TwEECer, UIM, LIM)

I never dyno'd after those mods. ~200 wheels would have been a decent "assumption."

To be clear: Mustang or Dynojet?

At the dyno day I hit 183.5 hp with my 2.5L I dyno'd higher than some 3L's....

Originally posted by WRX Barge:
At the dyno day I hit 183.5 hp with my 2.5L I dyno'd higher than some 3L's....

What was your mods?! TH fix and TweeCer!?

Here are a couple of things to note....I talked to my tuner "guy" this AM. hood open vs. hood closed= 5 HP. All the testimng we have done on oils, synthetics will yield 5-6 HP. For example on an S2000 it showed a 5 HP gain, on an LT1 a 6 HP gain.

Ron

Originally posted by ronster:
Here are a couple of things to note....I talked to my tuner "guy" this AM. hood open vs. hood closed= 5 HP. All the testimng we have done on oils, synthetics will yield 5-6 HP. For example on an S2000 it showed a 5 HP gain, on an LT1 a 6 HP gain.

Ron

oh no u went there. Synthetic gained u 5-6 hp

K now was this dyno jet in somebodys garage. I bet it was built from duck tape and super glue??

Did your car have a wing and sitckers. Add that 8 hp. no wonder your car got better numbers!!

Originally posted by WRX Barge:
At the dyno day I hit 183.5 hp with my 2.5L I dyno'd higher than some 3L's....

Mustang and Dynojet?

Originally posted by ronster:
...synthetics will yield 5-6 HP. For example on an S2000 it showed a 5 HP gain, on an LT1 a 6 HP gain.

Ok, now I'm really starting to question the dyno results.

Todrasbyassociation dyno'd 182hp with with his stock SVT with just an Apexi during a CEG dyno day. Everyone else dyno'd normal numbers so reason to think it was the dyno. Some freak motors out there.

Originally posted by GTO Pete:

Originally posted by WRX Barge:
At the dyno day I hit 183.5 hp with my 2.5L I dyno'd higher than some 3L's....

Mustang and Dynojet?

This was on a Dynojet... and I got "normal" svt number the year before, same dyno, same basic weather conditions.

And mustang dyno's don't always read lower.. depends on what correction factors.. etc..etc.

Look at SZ 04's dyno number which were on a mustang dyno. Everyone was putting down dynojet like numbers.

Well I guess this would be the duck (actually duct tape).
http://home.fastspecialties.com/index.php?option=com_ponygallery&Itemid=40&func=special

Just click on the shop numbers and check out the customer cars. We see everything from AC Cobra's to original GT350's that we maintain for some avid high end collectors. Believe what you want about synthetics...100's of different vehicles have been tested before and after and it WORKS. What kind of facility do you have?

Ron

Synthetics and certain oil weights have shown to add power. In the case of changing oil weight, it sometimes results in an oil that doesn't last as long or protect as well.

Originally posted by ronster:
Well I guess this would be the duck (actually duct tape).
http://home.fastspecialties.com/index.php?option=com_ponygallery&Itemid=40&func=special

Just click on the shop numbers and check out the customer cars. We see everything from AC Cobra's to original GT350's that we maintain for some avid high end collectors. Believe what you want about synthetics...100's of different vehicles have been tested before and after and it WORKS. What kind of facility do you have?

Ron

I own a Shop full of Ferarri's

I'll do my best at SZ but without a chip of any kind or a tune i don't think i'm going to even turn anything remotely worth noting.

Originally posted by 5V7 Dr1v3r627:
I'll do my best at SZ but without a chip of any kind or a tune i don't think i'm going to even turn anything remotely worth noting.

Yeah, pretty much. If you do ONE thing...Xcal 2 with PrP and a wideband.

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

Originally posted by 5V7 Dr1v3r627:
I'll do my best at SZ but without a chip of any kind or a tune i don't think i'm going to even turn anything remotely worth noting.

Yeah, pretty much. If you do ONE thing...Xcal 2 with PrP and a wideband.

Bah, get the PRP with a 4 bank chip! It's not hard to pull your chip to burn, and it's nice to have 4 custom tunes at your finger tips

The raptor is an amazing datalogger too

Originally posted by Swazo:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

Originally posted by 5V7 Dr1v3r627:
I'll do my best at SZ but without a chip of any kind or a tune i don't think i'm going to even turn anything remotely worth noting.

Yeah, pretty much. If you do ONE thing...Xcal 2 with PrP and a wideband.

Bah, get the PRP with a 4 bank chip! It's not hard to pull your chip to burn, and it's nice to have 4 custom tunes at your finger tips

The raptor is an amazing datalogger too

Because 3 isn't enough?! I can see wanting 4 for the boosted apps...but 3 is plenty for him, right?

how about unlimited tunes on the xcal. You can only have three on the unit at a time, but you can keep others stored on your computer. It is so much easier to troubleshoot. If one on your programs is good just email it to your tuner and you can have it back in an instant. No waiting to mail a chip.

Originally posted by Swazo:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

Originally posted by 5V7 Dr1v3r627:
I'll do my best at SZ but without a chip of any kind or a tune i don't think i'm going to even turn anything remotely worth noting.

Yeah, pretty much. If you do ONE thing...Xcal 2 with PrP and a wideband.

Bah, get the PRP with a 4 bank chip! It's not hard to pull your chip to burn, and it's nice to have 4 custom tunes at your finger tips

The raptor is an amazing datalogger too

Yeah, but unless you run Nitrous where you need two tunes, I can't see needing more than ONE good tune!

I think after tuning for quite a while now, ONE good tune can take advantage of varous octanes including 93 octane with a can of booster or just 91 octane and no booster if you set your parameters correctly.

I guess at most you'd need two tunes if you want to run large timing on 105 octane or something.

More than just one tune is practical here. Oregon does not generally allow "self service" gas pumps. With pump jockeys who did not see the "premium fuel only" markings and who also did not follow my requests for "fill it with 92" having a de-tune in place for that twice/year tank of 87 octane gas is a benefit.

These multiple tune/multiple fuel options will affect recreational racers, and us guys without tune/fuel$$ will be left out of it: If this May, Mr. BMWeekend fills up with aviation gas on his way to the road course for track day, then by this June, everybody with a 325 or 330 does.

For an NA car, a street tune and a track tune would be about it. If nitrous was added, one might have 2 tunes for different shot sizes.

I honestly thought that the xcal2 only had one tune at any given time. How do you switch tunes with it?

Originally posted by Swazo:
For an NA car, a street tune and a track tune would be about it. If nitrous was added, one might have 2 tunes for different shot sizes.

I honestly thought that the xcal2 only had one tune at any given time. How do you switch tunes with it?

You just plug the Xcal2 in, and it asks which program you want it to flash. You select that tune, and ~60 seconds later, your computer has that tune. Pretty simple actually, just not as convenient as a flip chip.

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by Swazo:
For an NA car, a street tune and a track tune would be about it. If nitrous was added, one might have 2 tunes for different shot sizes.

I honestly thought that the xcal2 only had one tune at any given time. How do you switch tunes with it?

You just plug the Xcal2 in, and it asks which program you want it to flash. You select that tune, and ~60 seconds later, your computer has that tune. Pretty simple actually, just not as convenient as a flip chip.

Mark

With a flip chip do you just flip a swith or do u physically flip the chip on the computer. I've never had a chip so I wouldn't know either way.

From the flip chips I've seen, you can run a toggle switch, to where you just flip it to the program you want, and it's instant.
The benefits of being able to flip the chip on the fly, didn't outweigh the options of the Xcal2, and I know that I can drive around on my nitrous tune all day, and spray when I want. It's no big deal to pull over, shut the car off, and switch my program to nitrous, if that's what I want to do. I usually know when I'm going to need the juice.

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
From the flip chips I've seen, you can run a toggle switch, to where you just flip it to the program you want, and it's instant.
The benefits of being able to flip the chip on the fly, didn't outweigh the options of the Xcal2, and I know that I can drive around on my nitrous tune all day, and spray when I want. It's no big deal to pull over, shut the car off, and switch my program to nitrous, if that's what I want to do. I usually know when I'm going to need the juice.

Mark

True, and you still have to shut the car off to flip the tune on the chip IIRC. I think it will screw [censored] up if you flip it in the middle of accessing data.

Like I was saying earlier, the stock code is more than able to pull timing in the event that low octane fuel is used.
So except for a nitrous tune or a serious high boost engine like 14psi+ tunes on 10:1 motor, I can't see the need for a second tune.

I used to switch positions on the TwEECer somewhat live. I would just kick in the clutch, kill the car, and restart. Program changes w/o stopping.

I'll be running a tune for 91 octane and one for 113 with more timing.

I've modified the little area next to the defroster button to the left of the gauges to house the switch for my 4 bank chip. It uses an 8 position rotary switch. 0-3 are the different tunes, 4 turns the chip off and allows the OEM tune to be used and 5-8 are "no start" positions and the car will not crank.

You can switch inbetween tunes without damaging anything, only if it's not your OEM tune or anything that won't jive with your currant setup (too much timing for the octane you've got in the tank, OEM tune w/ boosted application like mine, etc)

Just do not remove your chip while the key is on! Ask Keyser

What's better about Xcal2 over the Raptor?

I've never used the Raptor, so I can't say anything bad about it. I just know that the Xcal2 can datalog EVERYTHING. It's pretty much everything in one package. You get 3 tunes, the datalogging, the CEL code reader, and you still have a little bit of control over the tuning(2* timing and 5% A/F).

Mark

Ah, the xcal2 would be sweet for the super anal to get their tune down to near perfection. It would be good once you have your tune just about right though, and only then.

With the Raptor, you can only see your datalogged info in graph or spreadsheet form on your computer. I'm guessing it's the same deal with what you are able to do with the xcal2 when linked to your computer.
This is the only way to go about changing your tune until it's "just about right" IMO.

Anyway, sorry about the hi-jack

IMHO, most would probably like the xcal2 version of SCT's PRP. I like the burner/raptor version.

my 2.5 did 190fwhp, but it had long tube headers and a lot of mods. I think its possible with some heads or a little more work though on a dynojet...a mustang dyno can be setup to read similar to a dynojet (and some places have) as well.

Here is the dyno link, and car link:
http://www24.brinkster.com/ezerner/contour/index.htm
dyno link if you click on the dyno numbers.