It is me or Contour/Cougars just don't ET??

Originally posted by Anthony Thomas:

If I end up getting a 'Tour, I don't wanna make a bunch of changes expecting say 12 second ET's and not get them because the car just isn't capable of it.

You want 12's from a tour expect to lay down what, at least 10,000 dollars or so? Figure an upgraded ADC kit with a custom tune, forged internals, lsd, upgraded axels...

I don't think even our 400 hp 'tours are laying down 12's yet due to launch troubles.

Originally posted by ScottK:

Originally posted by Anthony Thomas:

If I end up getting a 'Tour, I don't wanna make a bunch of changes expecting say 12 second ET's and not get them because the car just isn't capable of it.

You want 12's from a tour expect to lay down what, at least 10,000 dollars or so? Figure an upgraded ADC kit with a custom tune, forged internals, lsd, upgraded axels...
I don't think even our 400 hp 'tours are laying down 12's yet due to launch troubles.

Easier then that.

Strategic weight reduction.
Nice 3L
50-75 shot of Nitrous
BFG DR's or much better yet SLICKS!!!

I bet I could hit 12's with just a little love tap of juice & sticky tires and we found out my car's not that light.

12's are all about Traction.

Well unless of course you go Scott's route and make mad mojo power!

Even with that said several "big dogs" should be in the 12's anyway.

They easily have the power and/or trap speed.

how Light are we talking here?

Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
how Light are we talking here?

100lbs, you supposedly can't remove more weight than that.

so what are you waiting for girly man..

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

I bet I could hit 12's with just a little love tap of juice & sticky tires and we found out my car's not that light.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
how Light are we talking here?

100lbs, you supposedly can't remove more weight than that.

Oh boy, round 3.. DING DING DING!

Mark

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
how Light are we talking here?

100lbs, you supposedly can't remove more weight than that.

Originally posted by FreeShyne:

Originally posted by Anthony Thomas:
Please no - "You should buy a Mustang post" If I bought a Stang when I was done it would do wheel stands but get 4mpg in the process, no thanks.

I'm interested in making a neat sedan whoop butt on the mean streets of Southern California and occasional track use. That way I don't have rent a car when I feel like my Neon is too edgey for dates.

Thanks

Get an M5 ...Hey, I didn't say get a Mustang. What the hell do you mean by your neon is "too edgey for dates". HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I hope that is sarcasm. Is this a regular neon or an SRT-4? If it is an SRT then your problem would already be solved. If it is a regular neon,well, then you should get rid of it, it is just way too edgey.

Check his sig, your answer is in there.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Even with that said several "big dogs" should be in the 12's anyway. They easily have the power and/or trap speed.

Demon said you cant drive

A lot of people have ignored the little tricks that help the contour hook up. They spend a ton of money on their engine and forget the rest. I think subframe connectors, reinforced control arms and foamed frame rails would help a lot. I also think konis and ground controls set up properly would help quite a bit. Also a few of our big hp guys have admitted that they do not drag race well.

the konis set full hard in the rear reduced a LOT of driveline movement, etc. I think a good suspension setup with solid MM is the way to go, and obviously don't drop the clutch above 3.5k and you'll be able to get into 12's. . .I haven't tried yet. . .

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
how Light are we talking here?

100lbs, you supposedly can't remove more weight than that.

If you removed your rock filled head you could drop another 100 easily.

That "100lbs" basis was based on all the easily removable parts. Jack, spare, inner trunk siding & extras, rear seat back & bottom, and all misc junk in the car.

There definitely are other ways to lower the vehicles weight however they don't "just happen" before going to the track though.
(i.e. headers for precats, aftermarket Y for stock, CF hood, 13lb battery, removing extra metal brackets, et cetera)

Its all about the launch and hookup, any E.T.'s are all about that, period

Originally posted by Intercom System for Contour.org:

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
If you removed your rock filled head you could drop another 100 easily.

Attention, again.

Ross has been own3d by Greg. Yes, this is an own3d statement.

That is all.

On a side note Greg, it's nice to know that the rear seat is "useless junk."

Originally posted by RTStabler51:
so what are you waiting for girly man..

Well there is the whole fact I don't like nitrous.

I hate temporary power! If I can't use it 24/7 then it's not for me.

That doesn't mean there are times I don't wish I had a nitrous kit on my car when I went to the track but that it is just not my cup of tea.

BTW - how fast was your SVT with nitrous??? Did you break into the 14's?

Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:
I think subframe connectors, reinforced control arms and foamed frame rails would help a lot.

I agree.

I personally skipped the subframe connectors because of weight. Also there is not a tremendous amount of twist being transfered through the body in a FWD platform. It is all localized to the front.
There is only really some lateral G bending and our platform is very rigid for a unibody. All the suspension and stress points are over engineered. It is part of the reason why a FSTB has no real effect.

I do have re-enforced control arms and foamed frame rails.

Though I did both for handling and not specfically for drag launches.

I feel the 94A filled roll resistors made the biggest difference by far. They broadened the range you could go before you hit wheel hop.

After that comes practice, practice, practice.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

this is pretty much my point of veiw on nitrous either but it would be nice sometimes

.

aaron

Originally posted by ScottK:

I don't think even our 400 hp 'tours are laying down 12's yet due to launch troubles.

burritasvt is a good example. whenever he is able to get axles that won't break on the first run he may just be in the 12's.

Originally posted by CSVT1214:

Originally posted by FreeShyne:

Originally posted by Anthony Thomas:
Please no - "You should buy a Mustang post" If I bought a Stang when I was done it would do wheel stands but get 4mpg in the process, no thanks.

I'm interested in making a neat sedan whoop butt on the mean streets of Southern California and occasional track use. That way I don't have rent a car when I feel like my Neon is too edgey for dates.

Thanks

Get an M5 ...Hey, I didn't say get a Mustang. What the hell do you mean by your neon is "too edgey for dates". HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I hope that is sarcasm. Is this a regular neon or an SRT-4? If it is an SRT then your problem would already be solved. If it is a regular neon,well, then you should get rid of it, it is just way too edgey.

Check his sig, your answer is in there.

He recently added that...Wasn't there when I posted.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
how Light are we talking here?

100lbs, you supposedly can't remove more weight than that.

If you removed your rock filled head you could drop another 100 easily.

That "100lbs" basis was based on all the easily removable parts. Jack, spare, inner trunk siding & extras, rear seat back & bottom, and all misc junk in the car.

There definitely are other ways to lower the vehicles weight however they don't "just happen" before going to the track though.
(i.e. headers for precats, aftermarket Y for stock, CF hood, 13lb battery, removing extra metal brackets, et cetera)

Seems like ur the one with rocks... Those extra pounds can be removed. Just because you don't spend the time doing doesn't mean it's not doable. ONCE AGAIN, if you haven't done it, doesn't mean it's impossible.

Originally posted by acrdklr:

Originally posted by ScottK:

I don't think even our 400 hp 'tours are laying down 12's yet due to launch troubles.

burritasvt is a good example. whenever he is able to get axles that won't break on the first run he may just be in the 12's.

I talked to DSS on a seperate occasion and asked about that. He said the shaft that broke was a stage I piece that accidently got put on a stage II set up.

Thanks Demon -

Hey you going to throw the GM Racing Supercharger for the Ecotec on your wife's Z24 sedan?

On topic -

Seems to me that tour owners aren't the drag racing types. I remember when I got my first Neon, everybody use to say "ya its only good for autocrossing and road racing". Given how well the car was and still is doing on a club local level in both autocross and SCCA Showroom Stock. That's simply not the case as there are plenty of 13,12,11,10 and now 9 second "street" cars and low 8 second drag only Neons.

The curb weight of the tour is right inline with other cars in its class. Its roughly 200lbs more than the average Acura RSX and about 300lbs more than a 2nd gen Interga.

Power to Weight doesn't seem like the issue, but traction might be. Seems nobody used drag radials or even tries to use slicks. Slicks are actually easier on FWD drivetrain because it of the bias-ply contruction doesn't allow for wheel hop, the number 1 killer of transmissions, gears and axles on FWD in drag racing.

Glad to see you can get a Tour to run 13's. Makes sense to me since there a few 13 second Mazda Probes, even though the Mazda engine is used the traits between both engines are the same.

Now if you an N/A Tour can run 13's, there's no reason the turbo cars shouldn't run 11's in street trim.

As for a turbo, naa I'm move of a supercharger kinda guy, especially when its an option.

About my Neon, it already faster than most Tours anyway because its some 500lbs lighter. After this current engine swap is completed, it will put me around 150hp at wheeels and have another block waiting for Eagle rods and Wiseco pistons and I haven't decided on a turbo system or nitrous or even both on the car.

"Edgy" in my terms is showing up to a 3-4 star resturant with a date and jumping out of my lower Neon with a nice exhaust tone I might add. Just seems a tad imature for events like that. A Contour is bit more mature but still fun to drive and fun to modify. I've always wanted a SVT anyway...

Thanks for the insite.

Originally posted by Anthony Thomas:

About my Neon, it already faster than most Tours anyway because its some 500lbs lighter. After this current engine swap is completed, it will put me around 150hp at wheeels ...

150 at the wheels. woOt!!! You'll surely kick the [censored] out of a CSVT.

I was sold on your post until I read this.

Otherwise, there's reasons we haven't gotten a CSVT into 11s territory. The cars are simply just too delicate and nobody yet has the balls to risk breaking something severe.

I don't think there's any reason to rip on this guy.

Someone with a bullet proof tranny, reinforced roll restrictors, rock solid rear suspension, upgraded driveshafts, an LSD, a set of Mickey Thompsons and 400hp might break into the low 12's, high 11's, but that basically means having a car that's only good for the strip.

And IMHO that's not what the Contour and it's owners on this board are about.

I just want an all round fast car - with a concentration on Auto-X'ing.....and I'm getting there. Mind you with "only" ~300hp, I'm not going to see 12's any time soon. My poor tires already struggle with putting down the power I have, during a launch and powering out of tight corners. Nonetheless, I will say that my car is a fun street car with more than enough anbility to embarass many other high hp cars on the road.

Upgraded halfshafts are BEYOND a must.

Maybe solid billet axles.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Upgraded halfshafts are BEYOND a must.

Maybe solid billet axles.

Does somebody have first hand experience here with breaking a halfshaft?

I may or may not have heard that through the grapevine

Mark

I am up to 2 now!

Both driver's side.
1 OEM and 1 HD.

See my other post in this Forum.

I'm done going for sub 2.0 launches. I wanted to to nail one but you other folks can have it.

i have broken 2 shafts on both sides.....therefore i have not been to the track in a few months, but i am getting the itch. especially now that the colder whether has returned. i want to see if i can beat my 9.8 from last winter. i know i know 9.8 but hey my car is not far from stock.

aaron

Originally posted by rkneeshaw3.0:

Best image i have ever seen.

I predict that BurritaSVT will be the first to make it to the 12's...

Being on these boards I have learned to look at trap speed and ignore the 1/4 mile time.

If this board had many members like the Neon boards I'm sure you would see much better times...we just don't have the #'s...I think that is why it is still impressive to see a Contour in the 13's.

That's true. Greg and Burrita are running roughly the same ETs, but Burrita's trap is almost 10 mph faster.

I'm actually the first to run 12's on the board....oh wait, that's my new car!

Seriously though, these guys have really stepped up and put down some good times especially Greg....shoot he bested my 8psi run with his N/A 3liter, and I held the quickest run record for quite some time......

Oh, and for those interested my new car went 12.5 at 115mph with a 2.0 60' in 82* weather.....stock!

RWD and 405 hp does wonders!

Originally posted by wavrdr:
Oh, and for those interested my new car went 12.5 at 115mph with a 2.0 60' in 82* weather.....stock! RWD and 405 hp does wonders!

Nice times.. Get the hang of that car, and they are capable of 12.0's with a 1.9 60' and cool weather.

Mark

The quickest stock ET to date is 11.59 at 120 mph in 50* weather on stock F1's.

I will definitley be attempting to work some magic in this car!!!

Well I asked about the weight out of curosity.

I have weighed my cougar at 2680lbs. With 19" rims and a wing west lip kit. And as soon as i get my spare doors and hatch i should be down in the 25xxlb range.

I dont know about you contour guys but there is plenty of weight to be lost on our platform. As serious as some of you guys seem I would have thought at least some of you would have gutted the car prior to a good track run.

Though I agree that most of the CEGers seem to want a more all around car. I applaud that and hope to do the same with my cougar. Hell i havnt even ran my car in the 1/4 yet, i have too much fun on our twisty mountain roads.

There's no doubt some of the boosted Contours should be running a lot quicker than they are. It doesn't take wild suspension setups. All it takes is a tranny that can handle the power and the launch on slicks. Do Greg's tranny mods and a turbo CSVT should be able to do this:

http://www.fastmaxima.com/vids/HlH%20Turbo%20Compilation%20III.wmv

Turbo Maxima with a 50 shot used in 3rd and 4th. Stock tranny and stock motor. 11.9@124mph with a 1.9 60' on 26" slicks. Currently 515whp.

I wouldn't go so far as to say a Turbo CSVT will do 11.9's. A RWD car weighing 3000-3200lbs with 400RWHP should be in that range.. Most of the Turbo Contours are doing mid to low 300 HP with pump gas. That is still enough to put you into the 12's no problem, just need someone to prove it.

Mark

Considering most Neons kick the shhh out of ZX2's and ZX3's I guess you wouldn't know how 150hp+ wheel hp and 135lbs of torque moves a 2250lbs chassis with driver.

In my experience thats mid 14's at 93-94mph, what's your ZX2 run?

That's with a couple of bolt-ons and OEM parts btw

A dead stock CSVT is a low 15 second car. That in my est. makes a modified POS Plymouth Neon faster than a CSVT and that's with blowing a head gasket in the process....

Oh yeah don't take me seriously.

Originally posted by Anthony Thomas:
Considering most Neons kick the shhh out of ZX2's and ZX3's I guess you wouldn't know how 150hp+ wheel hp and 135lbs of torque moves a 2250lbs chassis with driver.

In my experience thats mid 14's at 93-94mph, what's your ZX2 run?

That's with a couple of bolt-ons and OEM parts btw

A dead stock CSVT is a low 15 second car. That in my est. makes a modified POS Plymouth Neon faster than a CSVT and that's with blowing a head gasket in the process....

Oh yeah don't take me seriously.

In no way did I play off my ZX2 as better than your Neon, so pulling my car into the argument will do you no good.

I have no intention of drag racing a car intended to be economical.

-SAV

actually I would classify a zx2 and neon in the same class...oh wait, I would put the focus in that same class too.

But I do agree it doesn't take much when your car is so light...

Originally posted by SAV-ZX2:

Originally posted by Anthony Thomas:

About my Neon, it already faster than most Tours anyway because its some 500lbs lighter. After this current engine swap is completed, it will put me around 150hp at wheeels ...

150 at the wheels. woOt!!! You'll surely kick the [censored] out of a CSVT.

I was sold on your post until I read this.

Where does 150 HP at the wheels put a stock weight ZX2? At just above 130 at the wheels ZX2's run 15.0's and 15.1's ons treet tires. Neons with the 3.94 trans run similar speeds with similar power. 150 at the wheels should put both the ZX2 and neon well into the 14's. I own both a ZX2 and '95 SOHC neon and as far as straight line stuff goes, with similar power, they are close in acceleration. You have to think of it relative to what you know and not maks assumptions.

Yet again, people miss the sarcasm in my post.

I know exactly what 150 whp would do to a Neon, but it wouldn't exactly be DEADLY fast. Sure it'd be quick. I'll agree with that.

I own a ZX2 as well, obviously. With the ATX it feels nice and peppy, but not 15.0 ET peppy. Please show some timeslips. I'm interested.

-SAV

I sensed no sarcasm, I got the same impression.

It will be hard to get into the 12s without at least 260+hp at the wheels. Don't forget we are talking camaro SS/ svt cobra territory here. If you want a car that will do that, get something that is made for that. The contour is a balance of handling, sound, speed. You compromise to get that balance. On the other hand, buy an srt neon, and you can beat a lot of other cars on the road, but I am sure parts will be falling off by around 30k.

Quote:

On the other hand, buy an srt neon, and you can beat a lot of other cars on the road, but I am sure parts will be falling off by around 30k.

VERY doubtful. But thanks for the blind bashing of a relatively cheap performance car.

Originally posted by JonnySVT:

Quote:

On the other hand, buy an srt neon, and you can beat a lot of other cars on the road, but I am sure parts will be falling off by around 30k.

VERY doubtful. But thanks for the blind bashing of a relatively cheap performance car.

Agreed very doubtful. Ever drive one dutchie? Sure the interior parts are the best, but not the worst, and the engine and tranny are gooood.

Actually, I deserve the scolding if I were blindly bashing a car, but my comments come from experience and observation (the proven scientific method). My brother's kid has a wrx, and his best friend an srt-r. They drive them like kids do, but they are supposed to take the abuse. The 'bulletproof' wrx was on 3 cylinders and blew the turbo. The srt has been in the shop already for various things...turbo noise that is 'not normal' and posible head gasket problem. These cars are fast cars, and the parts have been beefed up to take the power, but they are only as good as the people who put them together. I had a regular neon for a year and a half and drove it like an old lady, still had more problems than I should have had. There is a reason why their resale is so low.
You said it yourself, they are a 'cheap' performance car. What car wouldn't perform the way the srt does considering the power to weight ratio of the vehicle. An inexpensive performance car would be a nissan 350z if you want a good combination of price, performance, quality, style etc.

So your brother's kid's friend owns one... Not very close personal experience there. I don't own one, but my best friend does, I've driven it, ride in it often, and have worked on it. ANY car can have problems if not treated right and there is always an occasional lemon of ANY brand. My guess is the kid isn't treating it right. The cars can be driven hard, but any car can be driven too hard, which the kid is most likely doing. 350z cost atleast $5k more than a srt4 and is not quite as fast or as cheap to make even faster. It's a different level.

yeah its a different level...the 350z is actually a nice car....the srt-4 is a cheap pos...yeah its fast but that is all it has to offer...it is still ugly as a regular neon,and as cheaply made.....just because its fast and cheap so what...

How it looks is individual taste, I neither like nor dislike its looks.
Again, we have another unexperienced, talk out your butt kinda person here. The interior, as I said isn't the best, but I have also seen worse. The car is put together fairly well, with the majority of the engineering put into the important things: engine, tranny, suspension, and aerodynamics. None of these were skimped on. Just because it's fast and cheap, well people buy it and have a fast and cheap car that's what.
Before you comment on it again, research the car, drive one, ride in one, work on one. Seems like some people are just angry that there is a car that is reliable, cheap, and can beat out more expensive cars. Not sure why people feel this way, but that's way it seems.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
How it looks is individual taste, I neither like nor dislike its looks.
Again, we have another unexperienced, talk out your butt kinda person here. The interior, as I said isn't the best, but I have also seen worse. The car is put together fairly well, with the majority of the engineering put into the important things: engine, tranny, suspension, and aerodynamics. None of these were skimped on. Just because it's fast and cheap, well people buy it and have a fast and cheap car that's what.
Before you comment on it again, research the car, drive one, ride in one, work on one. Seems like some people are just angry that there is a car that is reliable, cheap, and can beat out more expensive cars. Not sure why people feel this way, but that's way it seems.

for one just because one of your butt buddies has one you chime in every time one is mentioned...it also seems to me like you have a friend that has every kind of car ever mentioned on this site

and for your info little boy i have driven the dogs**t out of one,that belongs to my brother in law...and like i said it is fast but that's it....the interior is cramped and just as cheap looking as a regular neon,and wow it has a little wing and a different front bumper cover,but other than that it still looks like a regular neon.....

i will give it props because it does run like a bat out of hell....and it will run neck and neck with my car,would probably be a little faster than me with a better driver....also a friend with a '00 stang gt got his a$$ handed to him by one...i was there,and i laughed my a$$ off,because he thought it was just a neon,he didn't even know what an srt was...

and don't come on here and whine that i'm just angry that its a fast cheap car(which cheap being a word you even used)that is what i said....i said it was fast...and once you get past the quickness of it it is still a cheaply made NEON with a turbo period...the looks suck,and so does the interior.....

and i didn't know you were a master mechanic either....what kind of work did you even do on one?????and even if you did work on one since when does that make you an expert on the car....you know i've ignored alot of stupid crap you spit out on here because you are a fellow southeast ceger,and some of the people i like on there,also like you for some reason,but contrary to what you believe you are not an expert on anything but having a high post count on ceg....and most of your posts are immature babble,and i'm sure i'm not the only one on here that thinks you need

I've driven both cars, I thought you might assume that from the fact that my brothers kid owns one. However I don't own the car, like you do not. My brother's kid does. I see and hear about it all the time, him being my brothers kid. He is the one driving it everyday and paying for the repairs, not me. You are right, every car model has their lemons. Some have more than others, again consult consumer reports. I wasn't saying they are pos, and I am not blindly bashing the car. Any car I will take the time to 'bash' will be one with which I have had personal, or close personal experience with through friends/family. I am over at my brothers house almost every weekend tinkering on cars, including the before mentioned. I've built engines with the help of my brother (who has been putting cars together for about 15 years). You don't have to have an engineering degree to know the ins and out of what makes a car tick or go fast, and you don't necessarily have to own a car or work on it to know whether or not the car will be reliable or how much value it will retain when you sell it. That is what consumer reports magazine is for. The neon and z are totally different cars. I've driven both cars (best friend has one which I am in all the time, and have worked on) and I would buy a used z over a new srt anyday, but that is just my personal preference. If I am going to drop that much cash, I am not going to buy a car that looks like a jacked up tonka toy over a car that looks like the z. 5k more for the z is actually a deal if you ask me. The neon is made for straight line acceleration. Reminds me of the Omni GLH.
anyway, to each his own....

ouch kremit = owned by dutchie....and i also agree with dutchie i would take a used z which stock for stock is just about as fast as an srt4,and outshines it in ANY other catagory as well IMO.....

btw dutchie do you have any pics of your 240z...i am thinking about a 70's 240 as a project car...sounds like yours is pretty sick...

Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
ouch kremit = owned by dutchie....and i also agree with dutchie i would take a used z which stock for stock is just about as fast as an srt4,and outshines it in ANY other catagory as well IMO.....

btw dutchie do you have any pics of your 240z...i am thinking about a 70's 240 as a project car...sounds like yours is pretty sick...

Yep,I have some kicking around. I'll have to post them tonight or tomorrow. They are great cars to work on and modify if you can find one with no rust, which is a challenge up here in Canada.

Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
ouch kremit = owned by dutchie....and i also agree with dutchie i would take a used z which stock for stock is just about as fast as an srt4,and outshines it in ANY other catagory as well IMO.....

You are kidding right?

No Z car was remotely close to 14's (most 16's) until the twin turbo version in the early 90's. Even with it's HP it still barely made it because it had become just so damn portly. (i.e. luxo-barge sports coupe)

I do agree the early year Z cars would be a great project though. The hardest part is finding one worth building and then finding suitable parts. Then there is the whole $$$ factor of building a rare car. I know all about that.
It's worth it if you have the patience and money though. I would take unique over common place any day!

I think when he says 'Z' Greg he's refering to the 350....

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
ouch kremit = owned by dutchie....and i also agree with dutchie i would take a used z which stock for stock is just about as fast as an srt4,and outshines it in ANY other catagory as well IMO.....

You are kidding right?

No Z car was remotely close to 14's (most 16's) until the twin turbo version in the early 90's. Even with it's HP it still barely made it because it had become just so damn portly. (i.e. luxo-barge sports coupe)

Originally posted by RTStabler51:
I think when he says 'Z' Greg he's refering to the 350....
Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
ouch kremit = owned by dutchie....and i also agree with dutchie i would take a used z which stock for stock is just about as fast as an srt4,and outshines it in ANY other catagory as well IMO.....

You are kidding right?

No Z car was remotely close to 14's (most 16's) until the twin turbo version in the early 90's. Even with it's HP it still barely made it because it had become just so damn portly. (i.e. luxo-barge sports coupe)

yep you got it i meant the current 350z's...

i was just asking about his 70's model because i have always wanted to fix one up....

Originally posted by chrisilversvt:

for one just because one of your butt buddies has one you chime in every time one is mentioned...it also seems to me like you have a friend that has every kind of car ever mentioned on this site and for your info little boy i have driven the dogs**t out of one,that belongs to my brother in law...and like i said it is fast but that's it....the interior is cramped and just as cheap looking as a regular neon,and wow it has a little wing and a different front bumper cover,but other than that it still looks like a regular neon.....

i will give it props because it does run like a bat out of hell....and it will run neck and neck with my car,would probably be a little faster than me with a better driver....also a friend with a '00 stang gt got his a$$ handed to him by one...i was there,and i laughed my a$$ off,because he thought it was just a neon,he didn't even know what an srt was...

and don't come on here and whine that i'm just angry that its a fast cheap car(which cheap being a word you even used)that is what i said....i said it was fast...and once you get past the quickness of it it is still a cheaply made NEON with a turbo period...the looks suck,and so does the interior.....

and i didn't know you were a master mechanic either....what kind of work did you even do on one?????and even if you did work on one since when does that make you an expert on the car....you know i've ignored alot of stupid crap you spit out on here because you are a fellow southeast ceger,and some of the people i like on there,also like you for some reason,but conrary to what you believe you are not an expert on anything but having a high post count on ceg....and most of your posts are immature babble,and i'm sure i'm not the only one on here that thinks you need

LMAO, umm no. I got friends with some cars, definitely not everyone mentioned. Maybe like 4 or 5 cars I can think of. Are you a big guy? I wouldn't call a srt4 interior cramp. It has a big wing, different bumper covers, and hood. Yeah, like I said looks aren't its big thing. Aerodynamically it's better than a stock neon.
I think you're missing the point. Yes it's cheap and fast, GOOD. Missing other point, yes interior isn't great, my friend was vacuuming and some carpet sucked right up. Like I said though, the IMPORTANT parts are made right. And that's what you pay for. I'd rather have a car with the important parts made right than just it look all nice or the interior be perfect. I don't see what is wrong with a cheap, fast car. Please explain. Remember if you don't want a car you don't have to buy it.

Originally posted by dutchie:
I've driven both cars, I thought you might assume that from the fact that my brothers kid owns one. However I don't own the car, like you do not. My brother's kid does. I see and hear about it all the time, him being my brothers kid. He is the one driving it everyday and paying for the repairs, not me. You are right, every car model has their lemons. Some have more than others, again consult consumer reports. I wasn't saying they are pos, and I am not blindly bashing the car. Any car I will take the time to 'bash' will be one with which I have had personal, or close personal experience with through friends/family. I am over at my brothers house almost every weekend tinkering on cars, including the before mentioned. I've built engines with the help of my brother (who has been putting cars together for about 15 years). You don't have to have an engineering degree to know the ins and out of what makes a car tick or go fast, and you don't necessarily have to own a car or work on it to know whether or not the car will be reliable or how much value it will retain when you sell it. That is what consumer reports magazine is for. The neon and z are totally different cars. I've driven both cars (best friend has one which I am in all the time, and have worked on) and I would buy a used z over a new srt anyday, but that is just my personal preference. If I am going to drop that much cash, I am not going to buy a car that looks like a jacked up tonka toy over a car that looks like the z. 5k more for the z is actually a deal if you ask me. The neon is made for straight line acceleration. Reminds me of the Omni GLH.
anyway, to each his own....

Should I even reply to you? You are so full of it. First it was his kid's friend, now it's his kid.
SRT4 is not made for JUST straight line acceleration, it is decent in the corners.
So you rely on magazines for your info, well stick to your magazines and outta car forums. They probably are counting every car some kid rags out, treated right they are fine.
Who is forcing you to buy a srt4? There are plenty of cars I would take over a srt4, used mustang, used miata,etc.... That's not the point. Point is the srt4 is fast, reliable (unless driven stupidly), and cheap. Nothing wrong with the 350z, just a srt4 is faster,cheaper, cheaper to build up, and just as reliable.

Originally posted by chrisilversvt:
ouch kremit = owned by dutchie....and i also agree with dutchie i would take a used z which stock for stock is just about as fast as an srt4,and outshines it in ANY other catagory as well IMO.....

btw dutchie do you have any pics of your 240z...i am thinking about a 70's 240 as a project car...sounds like yours is pretty sick...

Owned, haha, righttttt.
USED... There are plenty of used cars faster,better,cheaper than plenty of new cars, sorta moot point. Again, you can get a 350z, no one is forcing you to buy a srt4. The srt4 is definitely the best car ever, neither is the 350z, I wouldn't buy either.

The twin turbo z cars were the fastest stock, but they got too expensive, so nissan had a hard time selling them. It is fairly easy to make an early 70's z car do 12's and high 11's in the 1/4. Mine runs low 12s consistently, as do a couple others in the z car club. If you are familiar with these cars, you know you don't have to shove a v-8 in them to make them go fast. Mine has the 3L straight six 'stroker' motor and there is more than enough power with the mods for the tires to break out in 2nd. 1st gear is almost useless under full throttle with the 5 speed, without dumping the clutch. The twin turbos are very quick when you get into the heavy mods, just like the tt supras. A guy came out to a z meet last summer with a 90's tt with modded turbos and walked me on the highway. Boost sure does come in handy.

Originally posted by dutchie:
The twin turbo z cars were the fastest stock, but they got too expensive, so nissan had a hard time selling them. It is fairly easy to make an early 70's z car do 12's and high 11's in the 1/4. Mine runs low 12s consistently, as do a couple others in the z car club. If you are familiar with these cars, you know you don't have to shove a v-8 in them to make them go fast. Mine has the 3L straight six 'stroker' motor and there is more than enough power with the mods for the tires to break out in 2nd. 1st gear is almost useless under full throttle with the 5 speed, without dumping the clutch. The twin turbos are very quick when you get into the heavy mods, just like the tt supras. A guy came out to a z meet last summer with a 90's tt with modded turbos and walked me on the highway. Boost sure does come in handy.

wth that gotta do with what we r talking bout? u r on more crack than me. stick to our off topic topic.

Originally posted by chrisilversvt:

btw dutchie do you have any pics of your 240z...i am thinking about a 70's 240 as a project car...sounds like yours is pretty sick...

Hey Chris...

Here are a few pics...not the best quality but they give you the idea.

[IMG]http://tinypic.com/ppyyu[/IMG]

[IMG]http://tinypic.com/ppyzp[/IMG]

[IMG]http://tinypic.com/ppz05[/IMG]

mods are: 3L motor, 280 block, 240 head, altima pistons, maxima crank, racing cam, balanced/blueprinted/torque benched, remote oil filter and cooler, electronic ignition - MSD with rev limiter, adjustable timing (when I can't find 93 octane), tripple webber carbs with custom heat shield, custom fuel rail, electic fan, 6-2 headers, straight exhaust, cascar muffler, R20 rear diff, Camaro 5-speed tranny, digital fuel to air mixture reader.
Brakes/suspension: full adjustable coilover (back yard job...hence the cuts and welds in the strut towers

, lowered 3 inches, swaybars, weld enforced frame, homemade rollbar, rear disk conversion, Willwoods in front with proportional valve, Bridgestone Potenza RE71s.

i have personally watched a 90's model z run down another z of the same year in the 1/8th mile with absolutely no tracion. the one that got run down was running with a stock setup but with the boost up to 20psi. and the other one creeped of the line for about the first 100ft. and then nailed it.........i was like

the whole time his foot was to the floor!!!!!

they were both auto's.

yeah, the autos are best for dragging because they make the most consistant times. Must have been nice to watch. I had to watch from my driver side window...

i know some1 that built up a 240 using a v8 and blewed it up now gonna do one with the nissan/datusn parts. but
this is stoopid i wanna argue more. so there was a srt4 and it had a turbo, ~300whp stock turbo. and then there was another with aftermarket turbo, bit over ~400whp on stock engine no problem. ARGUE!

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Nothing wrong with the 350z, just a srt4 is faster,cheaper, cheaper to build up, and just as reliable.

mmmm....Im gonna hafta disagree on that one. i dont think any modern chrysler is as reliable as any modern nissan. after much experience, both personal and through friends, I dont think any domestic CAR is as reliable as any toyota, honda, or nissan (w/ the exception of the occassional lemons as yo pointed out earlier). not that i would let that completely stop me from buying a car. Hell, i bought a contour. i love this thing, so its worth any additional troubles (i hope) i may encounter.

i like the neon turbo. im not sure id pay that much and would maybe take a PT turbo just cuz it has more amenities than the neon. they run nearly as fast too. beyond that, im extremely skeptical about buying any chrysler product no matter how cool it is. For that amount, i would much rather buy a Sentra SEr even though theyre slower. I would be completely comfortable it would last for another 100k miles while suffering abuse. And with the money you save from the neon, you could maybe even slap a turbo on it.

Gonna have to disagree with your disagreement. Well maybe overall nissans r more reliable, but not in this case. And I also meant srt4 more reliable than 350z when modding. I would never own a new se-r. One friend is on his third engine, other on second, cat breaks apart and gets sucked into engine and destroys it. Friend with third engine now has a header since he is out of warranty. Also the 02 had tranny trouble,,, he also got 03 tranny stuff. Also friend had screw come out of butterflies and go into a cylinder, all the other screws were loose as well:

Yeah, unfortunately I have to agree with kermit on the sentra

I was looking into getting an SER spec V because of the engine (I think it is the same motor as in the older infinity cars)displacement, torque etc. But their reliability has gone down the tubes over the past couple of years. A friend has the base model (SE?), the dealer wanted $700 canadian for a starter. The 6 sp tranny problems were dealt with for the 2004 year, when they added the ugly front and rims.

Originally posted by svt4stv:
mmmm....Im gonna hafta disagree on that one. i dont think any modern chrysler is as reliable as any modern nissan. after much experience, both personal and through friends, I dont think any domestic CAR is as reliable as any toyota, honda, or nissan (w/ the exception of the occassional lemons as yo pointed out earlier)...

svt4svt, the last figures I saw, earlier this year, showed that that is more of a myth than a reality.

For sometime now all two/three US automakers have been so close to Toyota, Honda and Nissan in measured quality control standards using number of defects per 100 units produced that they are all within 0.1 to 0.5 of each other IIRC.

Regards, Alan

and dont forget those figured may even be skewed considering a number of japanese auto manufactuers fail to 'own up' to their factory defects in order to save face. (and to keep all those silly americans thinking they make excellent autos that never break)

So what kind of issues Spec V issues are in the 2004 models? My friend has a brand new 2k4 and I'd like to know what he should look out for. That ungrateful bastard probably wouldn't believe what I'd tell him anyway but it'd be nice to laugh in his face once his engine dies and say "I told you so... you bastard".

so i guess when some jap company by the name of honda screwed up the syncros in the all new 99 SI's, and told everyone that had a problem with it to come in and they would fix it, is trying to hide something. for some reason i dont think that hurt honda's name or the SI's name cause those damn99-00's still sell for 11,12,13g's even now and they are freagin 6 years old.

trade in on mine is 5200

Yeah, I'm going to agree with Mr. Cougar here. My neighbor just brought home a black '99 Civic Si coupe with 76,000 miles on it. I asked him how much he paid and he said $13,700...and that was after negotiation.

Hell, I could get two decent CSVTs for that! And turbocharge the bejeezus out of one while I'm at it!

-SAV

Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
and dont forget those figured may even be skewed considering a number of japanese auto manufactuers fail to 'own up' to their factory defects in order to save face. (and to keep all those silly americans thinking they make excellent autos that never break)

This is true. My wife owns a 98 accord 4 cylinder. Very reliable but it has had it's quirks. It has had problems with transmission and clutch 'way before it should have' according to our family honda mechanic. I did a search on 98 accord transmission problesm and sure enough, there were many cases, complaints filed, and even an Internal Technical bulliten, yet Honda fails to acknowledge it and issue a recall. Could you imagine what that would cost them. There are an aweful lot of 98 accords on the road. I found so many people on car opinion sites etc talking about this problem, it actually seemed to be more common than our tranny issues with the contour/mystique.

yes it would cost them a boatload of money to recall a tranny......yah know kinda like it would cost ford a lot of money to replace the syncro's in my 99 tranny(which have proven to be weaker than the post 2000's). i dont blame them i wouldnt either. even though i own one and i love it very much i still hate fords.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Nothing wrong with the 350z, just a srt4 is faster,cheaper, cheaper to build up, and just as reliable.

why are these 2 cars even in the same sentence

one is a true sports car
one is not

period.

i am not even sure the neon is faster than the 350 cause from what i have seen them run in person a 350 would will by a couple 1/10th's in the 1/8mile.

Originally posted by ZetecNinja:

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Nothing wrong with the 350z, just a srt4 is faster,cheaper, cheaper to build up, and just as reliable.

why are these 2 cars even in the same sentence

one is a true sports car
one is not

period.

Which one?
srt4 engineering for speed, power to ground, and decent handling, good braking is above the 350z. More time engineering.
I think neither are a true sports car though at all. True sports car is a viper, z06, ferrrari.

99cougar, srt4 is faster if driver can drive. SEen it.

what are the times on them? i was just saying that aroung where i live the 350 owners must be better drivers. i think most all the ppl aroung here that own an srt-4 just are too retarded to know how to drive it like its supposed to be driven.

expecting a fwd car to put down amazing times in the 1/8 vs a smilarly power rwd car is silly.

The SRT4 should by all means be passing the 350 once past the 1/8 mile mark. I.E. once it has traction.

Yeap yeap. What does these 350zzz run in the 1/8th?

i ahve personally seen it run 8.90's. the quickest srt4 around here that is stock runs 9.30's-9.50's.

oh and to say my staement was silly...yur an ass. aroung here neither of thos ecars have a traction problem. the stock srt-4 lose traction only in 1st for about a half a secong at the most.

and either way you look at it...it is still a neon

Originally posted by 99cougar:
i ahve personally seen it run 8.90's. the quickest srt4 around here that is stock runs 9.30's-9.50's.

oh and to say my staement was silly...yur an ass. aroung here neither of thos ecars have a traction problem. the stock srt-4 lose traction only in 1st for about a half a secong at the most.

and either way you look at it...it is still a neon

bahh ha haa. Coming from person that drives a srt4 occasionally it does have traction problems. It is great for FWD but it spins easy and long if you're not good. Friend's srt4 runs a 9 flat in 1/8 bone stock with a broken motor mount. With a perfect driver it could do high 8s stock. After 1/8th it catches a 350z. Modified with aftermarket rubo saw it run and spun through third. Stock tires though.

I don't think the SRT4 can compete with the 350Z in any way other than the price tag/performance aspect

the overall quality of the 350Z is on an entirely different level

the 350Z is RWD
the 350Z has more displacement (TT anyone?)
the 350Z handles better
the power for both is similar...depends on who is driving to decide the race
the 350Z has a better quality interior

the 350Z is just on a whole nother level like I said, and much more performance oriented than the SRT4.

the 20-22K price tag of the SRT4 seems to blur peoples vision...if it was 30K not nearly as many people would buy it.

All in all, if I could afford a 350Z I would not even touch an SRT4...I can't see any way in my mind how an SRT4 is someway "better" than the Z.

Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
I don't think the SRT4 can compete with the 350Z in any way other than the price tag/performance aspect

the overall quality of the 350Z is on an entirely different level

the 350Z is RWD
the 350Z has more displacement (TT anyone?)
the 350Z handles better
the power for both is similar...depends on who is driving to decide the race
the 350Z has a better quality interior

the 350Z is just on a whole nother level like I said, and much more performance oriented than the SRT4.

the 20-22K price tag of the SRT4 seems to blur peoples vision...if it was 30K not nearly as many people would buy it.

All in all, if I could afford a 350Z I would not even touch an SRT4...I can't see any way in my mind how an SRT4 is someway "better" than the Z.

Well thanks for pointing out every single ovbious thing about this.
BUT

Does not decide driver, SAME good driver in both cars would be srt4 faster.

More performance orientated... NO. It has the luxury enuff for women and children to drive. SRT4 makes enough noise and stuff only people wanting to go fast want it. Due to cost limiting aspect, it is only what it is though.

Of course if you have lots of money you're not gonna get and its prices is it selling point. So what are you trying to say? If the 350z was 50k, I wouldn't touch it either. Point?

and SRt4 is cheaper to modify and more reliablily (to a point).

it is still just a piece of .... neon

Originally posted by 99cougar:
it is still just a piece of .... neon

great arguement coming from a cougar owner.

Good lord....this is still going on...like I said Kremit....if you love Neons so much, go whore the Neon boards.

i never said my cougar was all that...in fact i know it is a piece. but iwould still rather have it than neon.

why dont you go buy one since they are so cheap.

My friend's basically bonestock SRT4 is pretty decent in the 1/8th and 1/4 mile. We ran each other at the track a few weeks back and it's clear the SRT4's torque is the key to it's strong performance.

Maxima SRT4
RT .038 .437
60' 2.18 2.22
1/8 9.26 9.15
MPH 78.19 80.30
1/4 14.31 14.04
MPH 99.34 100.14

I beat him by a car at the finish because I had a nearly perfect RT, but I could see him creeping up from the 1/8 mile on. He was actually closing in on me pretty good right at the very end even though we both finished the race within less than 1mph of each other. I want that kind of torque.

Originally posted by LoCoZs/c:
Good lord....this is still going on...like I said Kremit....if you love Neons so much, go whore the Neon boards.

w3rd...i am beginning to wonder if he secretly works for dodge since he is so in love with this car...

Originally posted by LoCoZs/c:
Good lord....this is still going on...like I said Kremit....if you love Neons so much, go whore the Neon boards.

I hate neons.

Originally posted by 99cougar:
i never said my cougar was all that...in fact i know it is a piece. but iwould still rather have it than neon.

why dont you go buy one since they are so cheap.

I am just enuff of a realist to understand a good car. SRT4 is not a piece and isn't even quite a neon. Now it's your right to limit your options and call it whatever you want but not facing facts is a crappy way to go through life.
Umm yeah sure thing, I'll tell my college that I don't have to pay them any more.

Originally posted by chrisilversvt:

Originally posted by LoCoZs/c:
Good lord....this is still going on...like I said Kremit....if you love Neons so much, go whore the Neon boards.

w3rd...i am beginning to wonder if he secretly works for dodge since he is so in love with this car...

I don't give a crap about this or that car. But you gotta buncha people spouting BS about something they are uneducated on and I will educate them. I think dodge did good and took the high power FWD affordable class to a whole other level and I like that. Just because ya'll BLINDLY hate the srt4 so much doesn't mean it isn't a good car, just means ya'll don't know.

i dont hate the srt-4...i hate neons. i would rock an srt-4 if it was free....and if i could do it on a back road so i wasnt seen driving it. lol im just playing it is a good car i just cant get over the neon thing.

Originally posted by Dave B:
I want that kind of torque.

Me too.

And how did we go from talking about why our cars are slow off the line to debating about cars that have nothing to do with the topic? Just wondering.

Originally posted by 99cougar:
i dont hate the srt-4...i hate neons. i would rock an srt-4 if it was free....and if i could do it on a back road so i wasnt seen driving it. lol im just playing it is a good car i just cant get over the neon thing.

Aight. I am the kinda person that doesn't try to associate things like that. Like if Kia came out with a great sports car, I might would be into it. Yeah it'd be a Kia but if they decide to spend some time engineering things like the srt/pvo/svt,etc. programs do then it would be a good car (with a 10yr warranty).

Originally posted by Teenage Contour:

And how did we go from talking about why our cars are slow off the line to debating about cars that have nothing to do with the topic? Just wondering.

Dutchie mentioned it and I did my thang.

kinda like the only hyundai i would drive is the tiburon.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
I don't think the SRT4 can compete with the 350Z in any way other than the price tag/performance aspect

the overall quality of the 350Z is on an entirely different level

the 350Z is RWD
the 350Z has more displacement (TT anyone?)
the 350Z handles better
the power for both is similar...depends on who is driving to decide the race
the 350Z has a better quality interior

the 350Z is just on a whole nother level like I said, and much more performance oriented than the SRT4.

the 20-22K price tag of the SRT4 seems to blur peoples vision...if it was 30K not nearly as many people would buy it.

All in all, if I could afford a 350Z I would not even touch an SRT4...I can't see any way in my mind how an SRT4 is someway "better" than the Z.

Well thanks for pointing out every single ovbious thing about this.
BUT

Does not decide driver, SAME good driver in both cars would be srt4 faster.

More performance orientated... NO. It has the luxury enuff for women and children to drive. SRT4 makes enough noise and stuff only people wanting to go fast want it. Due to cost limiting aspect, it is only what it is though.

Of course if you have lots of money you're not gonna get and its prices is it selling point. So what are you trying to say? If the 350z was 50k, I wouldn't touch it either. Point?

and SRt4 is cheaper to modify and more reliablily (to a point).

dude, the only difference between a Z and SRT4 performance wise is like a bolt on or two...I think that enough to classify it as a drivers race.

Lets see an SRT4 outhandle a 350Z, or put more power to the wheels...its a pocket rocket not a performance oriented car like the 350Z.

I would take one, don't get me wrong but I still don't consider it on par with the 350Z.

Oh, and just because women drive them and kids ride in them doesn't mean they aren't performance oriented...if that were the case Mustang GT's and Corvettes are not performance cars either.

Mustang GTs and base corvettes are not real real performance cars either, they r just bit better than other cars. A cobra and z06 r.
Ok so, I take $5k I save, put aftermarket turbo and other stuff on the srt4. And then not a chance for the 350z.

Yes pocket rocket. Limited by FWD, but still performance orientated kid.

I'd take one of either, but don't want either particularly. They are built for different things so of course not same level.

Anyone want to go blow up a "pimped" out neon in MN? The thing is just spanktastical...body kit, racing stripes, and *wow* an aftermarket muffler, and a piece of aluminum on the back that I think is supposed to be a spoiler....i think. I just WISH i could pull up next to him at a light....Please please please. Then I would rev and rev until the light turns green and go "I am not wasting my gas on that pile". The one thing that might be worse than a neon is a 95 and newer eclipse or talon nonturbo...wait, they are neons in disguise. A better looking car, but still a neon. My girlfreind had a neon once, she says that having it smashed between a truck and another car 75 mph was the best thing that ever happened to it.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Mustang GTs and base corvettes are not real real performance cars either, they r just bit better than other cars. A cobra and z06 r.
Ok so, I take $5k I save, put aftermarket turbo and other stuff on the srt4. And then not a chance for the 350z.

Yes pocket rocket. Limited by FWD, but still performance orientated kid.

I'd take one of either, but don't want either particularly. They are built for different things so of course not same level.

jesus we've got 11 fricking pages of kremit saying the same thing in every fricking post...blah blah blah they are 2 different cars.....blah blah blah srt-4 this....give it a fricking rest...pretty soon you are going to be arguing with yourself...the more you post the more ignorant it makes you look.....

so the new vette(non z06)has like what 400 hp...that's not a performance car????????????????????????????and hell a mustang gt has 300 hp runs well into the 13's(one guy even ran a 13.2 stock)and that also isn't a performance car??????your ignorance really shines through in your posts...of course that's nothing new you have like what 15,000 posts of 90% rambling about things you don't even know anything about....

I agree.

The only real performance cars out there are the Porsches, Lambo's, and Ferraris!

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Mustang GTs and base corvettes are not real real performance cars either, they r just bit better than other cars. A cobra and z06 r.
Ok so, I take $5k I save, put aftermarket turbo and other stuff on the srt4. And then not a chance for the 350z.

Yes pocket rocket. Limited by FWD, but still performance orientated kid.

I'd take one of either, but don't want either particularly. They are built for different things so of course not same level.

si i guess to some people the STI isnt a performance car either? even tho there are very few cars that can beat it stock vs. stock in the 1/8th mile!

Originally posted by chrisilversvt:

jesus we've got 11 fricking pages of kremit saying the same thing in every fricking post...blah blah blah they are 2 different cars.....blah blah blah srt-4 this....give it a fricking rest...pretty soon you are going to be arguing with yourself...the more you post the more ignorant it makes you look.....

so the new vette(non z06)has like what 400 hp...that's not a performance car????????????????????????????and hell a mustang gt has 300 hp runs well into the 13's(one guy even ran a 13.2 stock)and that also isn't a performance car??????your ignorance really shines through in your posts...of course that's nothing new you have like what 15,000 posts of 90% rambling about things you don't even know anything about....

Yeappp. I already argue with myself all the time. It's great. Oo and I looked ignorant with first post I ever made, why stop the trend?

Nope. Has to have atleast 401hp to be performance. 13s is slooww. Gotta run 12s. Yeapp 15k+ posts of nothing. It's great, isn't it.

I love seeing people get worked up over nothing. And I knew that comment would do it (actually expected someone else to say something, cuz I know just about any comment will get you spewing crap).

whoever said the srt4 isn't as performance oriented as the 350z is honestly a [censored] moron.

the srt4 was modified for a SINGLE purpose, to race, ANY kind of race. The engine is so overbuilt it makes even the 4g63t in my dsm look mortal in power handling per liter.

the tranny is bullet proof, the turbo design is exactly what you want in a road race/autox. It has neutral handling and the brakes are just WRONG. It doesn't have cruise control, it doesn't have rear power windows. No supple leather and no 500 way power seats.

the car costs 20k, yet performs with cars that cost 10-12k more. It is basically a 20k 03+ Cobra in terms of power per $.

the 350z is a touring car that has the ability to be raced. Maybe the track model would be a good comparo, but even then, they add what? better brakes, get rid of a few weighted features and stiffened up the suspension a tad?(not really sure on this one)

uh oh, intelligence just entered the thread.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by chrisilversvt:

jesus we've got 11 fricking pages of kremit saying the same thing in every fricking post...blah blah blah they are 2 different cars.....blah blah blah srt-4 this....give it a fricking rest...pretty soon you are going to be arguing with yourself...the more you post the more ignorant it makes you look.....

so the new vette(non z06)has like what 400 hp...that's not a performance car????????????????????????????and hell a mustang gt has 300 hp runs well into the 13's(one guy even ran a 13.2 stock)and that also isn't a performance car??????your ignorance really shines through in your posts...of course that's nothing new you have like what 15,000 posts of 90% rambling about things you don't even know anything about....

Yeappp. I already argue with myself all the time. It's great. Oo and I looked ignorant with first post I ever made, why stop the trend?

Nope. Has to have atleast 401hp to be performance. 13s is slooww. Gotta run 12s. Yeapp 15k+ posts of nothing. It's great, isn't it.

I love seeing people get worked up over nothing. And I knew that comment would do it (actually expected someone else to say something, cuz I know just about any comment will get you spewing crap).

actually i think you have it a little bit backward...i am not getting worked up at all i expect no less out of an immature little boy...YOU are the one that got worked up just like you always do....and as far as spewing crap i think everyone on here knows who the main crap spewer is...

i mean damn you throw your 2 cents into every thread,and act like you are some kind of expert or something on every thread on here...i mean damn like for instance when dom posted pics of his new paint job,instead of being able to read about his car i have to go through countless pages of your babbling and eventually got it locked...

and then in the southeast forum when there were hurricanes that were threating peoples homes,and people that were really in the middle of it...we had to sift through countless pages of your babbling about how you were gonna drink and smoke and wait it out,and you weren't even barely threatened by them....it seems these boards are becoming overly congestsd with mindless posts by you,and i'm sure i'm not the only person that feels this way.....

and to end MY argument with you yes srt4's are the greatest cars ever made,and i am gonna rush out and buy me one,and i will have the greatest car ever conceived

now kremit don't you have an uncle to call so he can send you some money or a super fun meet with one other person that you can post about