My 3.0L Duratec Project

Here's the oil filter adapter Noble supplied. It has connections for the Mocal oil cooler.

Ended up not using it. Replaced it with a thermostatically controlled unit, so that the oil can warm up faster. The oil cooler is bypassed until oil reaches operating temperature. Probably not necessary where I live, but nice to have.

Mocal oil cooler is on passenger side. Added a Spal 5.6" fan to it. Here's a picture before the install. Just measuring fitment.

Here it is mounted up. Temperature probe goes on the mocal to control the fan.

Anyhow, back to the engine.

Picked up a Fidanza 9lb aluminum flywheel. You guys have probably seen them a million times.

It uses an ultra-light Ford/Getrag 6-speed transmission based on a 3-shaft design (1 input, 2 output). It has two layshafts with the most commonly used gears â�?��?? first to fourth â�?��?? on one with dual synchros and fifth, sixth and reverse on the second layshaft, using a different final drive ratio. Entire transmission and clutch weighs less than 115 lbs. Clutch is an AP racing unit. LSD is from Quaife.

Here's the engine with the tranny installed. You can also see the modified larger capacity gated & baffled oil pan. 8 liter oil capacity for this application.

Closeup of the pan:

Drain plug is on the far corner.

Has oil temp and pressure.

Oil pressure and oil temperature are on 1 gauge. I believe a company called Green Gauges makes it.

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
Looks sweet!

What means of forced induction are you using? Im not sure what the Vortech looks like up close. Maybe thats why there is a big support bracket on the front bank?

What camshafts?

Any reason why you chose the Wiseco pistons over the Diamond pistons?

Thanks. I'm going to be using just the standard setup, at least in the beginning. I'm actually not going to be increasing the HP that much over stock.

It uses a pair of Garrett GT28R turbos (twin-cartridge ball bearing units).

The support bracket on the front bank you see holds the air conditioning pump and starter.

Just got the watercooling pipes in (they were delayed).

Sent the exhaust manifolds out to be Jet-Hot coated, using their JetHot 2000 product (good for 2450 degrees F or melting point of metal it's attached to). Heat control is kind of a big issue with this car.

Using HeatShieldProducts Turbo Wrap product on the turbos.

Using Thermotec Gen 2 copper based header wrap on the downpipes.

I was just on that Noble site cool stuff. That jet hot caoting is great I have jet hot on my headers and it made a difference. the car runs cooler now...noticeably cooler.

Got pis of the whole car? Damm that would be a fun project!

Car's not done yet, so no complete pictures.

Engine is now in though.

More parts:

Fuel pump:

Closeup of Ford Lightning 42 lb injectors:

Speechless!!!!

Did a few mods, but not many. I figured I'd do it now while the engine is going in. Might be easier this way.

Stock, the car is pretty minimalistic.

425 hp
390 lb/ft torque
2337 lbs curb weight

I figure it's really not going to need that much more HP to perform.

This car, the Noble M400, is supposed to be:

0-60: 3.5 seconds
0-100: 8.0 seconds
Quarter mile: 11 seconds

However, Car & Driver just tested the GTO-3R, the model below the M400. The GTO-3R has 352hp, 350 lb/ft torque, 2380 lbs. They got:

0-60: 3.3 seconds
0-100: 8.1 seconds
Quarter mile: 11.8 at 118 mph

I'm guessing the M400 may be able to beat manufacturer's estimates.

Here are some things I picked up.

A toothed ring for the driver's side wheel. This will allow wheel speed sensors to work.

Here's what it looks like installed. You can see the wheel speed sensor & wire:

The rear axles do not need it, as they already have a band that the wheel speed sensors can pick up on.

That allows me to use the Racelogic programmable traction control system.

That system allows you to pick the amount of wheelspin you want, 0%, 5%, 10%, 20%, or system off. As you guys know, max grip happens around 10% slippage.

The one I got also gives you launch control, which puts a secondary temporary rev-limiter, so you can launch on boost.

It also has the full throttle shifting option, with a secondary soft limiter and another hard limiter. That way, I can shift with my right foot completely floored. It requires a switch for the clutch:

your project > our projects

im very very jealous.

Here's the RaceLogic head unit:

As you can see, there's also the head unit for the Blitz SBC-iD III sequential boost controller. I don't plan on going wild with the boost. Stock is .8 bar (12 psi or so), and the GT28R's are efficient to 17 psi or so, I believe.

I put the turbo timer head unit (Blitz Full Auto Turbo Timer) above the rollcage on the driver's side. It tucks in pretty well; the wiring is hidden behind the cage and goes down into the dash.

To help lower the weight of the car (my car has air con, so it's a bit above the 2337 lb curb weight), I picked up a Hawker Odyssey PC680mjt battery.

The stock battery is a 38lb red top Optima.

The Hawker Odyssey is basically an improvement on the design of the Optima Yellowtop. It's supposed to be good for over 400 full deep cycles (100% depth of charge). It's just 15.8 lbs.

Here it is installed:

That is Beaut. I want! Give me!

Can't wait to see it when it's done.

Here's a few picts of the interior. I'm not changing too much.

The interior is covered in alcantara. The stock steering wheel & knob are a bit ugly, so I swapped in the Momo Race steering wheel, and the Momo Race Aluminum Airleather knob.

Here's a close up of the oil temp/pressure gauge and boost gauge.

The stock rollcage is covered with alcantara as well.

The M400 gets upgraded seats. They're custom made by Racing Sparco. Sparco makes a very similar one called the Roadster, in a fiberglass shell, and it weighs 16 lbs. The ones they make for the M400 are in carbon fiber, and weigh around 10 lbs each.

It uses a Willans 4-point racing harness. Some people do swap it out for a 5 or 6 point set with wider webbing. I'm not sure if I'm going to.

There's not much room in the footwell because of the large front tires, and mid-engined configuration. I ended up removing the thin dead pedal.

What clutch are you running!?

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
What clutch are you running!?

It's an AP Racing unit. It's supposed to be reasonably stout.

A bit more of the exterior:

Here are the rear tires. They're 265/35ZR18 Pirelli P-Zero Corsa tires, DOT legal competition tires. Sadly, 60 treadwear rating, though it's what is necessary to put the power to the ground, with so little weight.

They use custom made AP racing 4-piston calipers, and vented & crossdrilled 13" rotors, front and rear.

Here are the rears:

Here are the fronts. As you can see, the hats are different.

I have the 6th M400 in the United States. Unfortunately, there was a little bit of a backorder on the shocks. I have the GTO-3R shocks in these pictures.

Front:

They changed over from a custom Dynamic Suspension shock setup to a Bilstein setup, with the same specs.

I was thinking, "I've seen some of these pictures before" and saw your screen name. You posted some of these pics over on VWVortex. I was wondering when you were going to find this place.
It's basically the only place that has high-hp Duratecs. Glad to see you here.

I just nutted in my pants.

Originally posted by JCSVT:
I was thinking, "I've seen some of these pictures before" and saw your screen name. You posted some of these pics over on VWVortex. I was wondering when you were going to find this place.
It's basically the only place that has high-hp Duratecs. Glad to see you here.

Yeah, CEG is definitely the place to look for high hp duratec info. There are serious vehicles on this forum.

Few more picts:

Look Ma, no MAF! GM (strangely) MAP:

And no EGR:

Also, installed a HKS Racing Bypass valve (red dot). Will pipe the air back into the intake for the front turbo, though it's not done yet in this picture. I guess it's not strictly necessary to get the air back in since it's not a MAF system. May as well do it though.

Wow. I can't say much more. Looks hot man.

wow this was worth feasting my eyes over!!

I thought porn was better..helllooo CEG pics/videos

Originally posted by R_G:
Speechless!!!!

I don't even know what to say!....brain, overloading...about to explode...

is that electrical tape around your piping?

why did you decide to go with no egr?

also your fuel rail looks like the high volume svt rail not the 3.0 one. Did you modify it? My 3.0 one is much thinner than yours...

Originally posted by svtProdigy:
is that electrical tape around your piping and green 19lb injectors?

Are you running with the egr and why did you decide your choice?

Do you ever read before posting

Originally posted by livinsvt:

Originally posted by svtProdigy:
is that electrical tape around your piping and green 19lb injectors?

Are you running with the egr and why did you decide your choice?

Do you ever read before posting

haha

FIGHT

(cripple fiiiiight)

ok I'll shut up

Originally posted by svtProdigy:
is that electrical tape around your piping and green 19lb injectors?

Are you running with the egr and why did you decide your choice?

go back and actually READ what he posted, and see if you still have any questions.

Originally posted by livinsvt:

Originally posted by svtProdigy:
is that electrical tape around your piping and green 19lb injectors?

Are you running with the egr and why did you decide your choice?

Do you ever read before posting

no egr did not catch my eye...Now i want an explanation why not... I doubt cause its easier to not do it, do to the thought put in this car... Its not maf system..got it now..

Originally posted by svtProdigy:
is that electrical tape around your piping?

why did you decide to go with no egr?

also your fuel rail looks like the high volume svt rail not the 3.0 one. Did you modify it? My 3.0 one is much thinner than yours...

The black piping is simply piping. The banding is simply the outside structure, which helps keep the pipe from expanding under pressure.

If you're talking about the exhaust section, it's copper based exhaust wrap. It's made to keep heat inside the pipes. This helps keep the exhaust gases moving at a good speed instead of cooling down. It also helps with the temperatures under the rear shell. The copper based wrap is supposed to be about 30% more effective at keeping heat in than the standard 2000 degree F high end heat wrap. I sprayed it with silver heat wrap paint (also 2000 degree), because the orange copper color is ugly.

Nobles tend to need some good heat management. I had LizardSkin (ceramic based insulation paint) sprayed on the firewall and in the center tunnel. This stuff gives you about a 25-30 degree differential between the sides.

The standard Noble system removes the EGR.

The fuel rail is also a Noble standard system.

Is the noble standard fuel rail system different from the rest of the duratecs? I would really like to get the oval port centered injection high volume fuel rail like the noble...

its gotta be badass to own such a car! Twin Turbo 3L Duratec

i thought there was a supercar that was basically 2 duratec engines put together...

Nice choice of intake manifolds.

Demon *cough* Demon. And by the way apex...

That is fukken sick - AWESOME. I'm so jealous.

Excellent work! Looks like no expense was spared.

Very interesting to see that Plastic UIM was reatined - I've always thought it was the way to go due to it's fantastically smooth internals. Will be interesting to see if it holds up to 17psi.

Also was shocked to see that Noble runs a 4x108mm bolts pattern.

to those who complain about having a 4-bolt hub.

It'll be awesome to see pics when it's all buttoned up and hopefully lots of movies too!

VERY COOL!

Originally posted by Stazi:
Excellent work! Looks like no expense was spared.

No kidding!! Must suck to be rich

Very impressive setup you've got going there gotapex!! Where are you from? You are DEFINITELY invited to come to Spring Zing 05 in Fort Wayne, Indiana.. I think we'd have to rope your car off to keep the

off of it!!

Mark

Originally posted by livinsvt:

Originally posted by svtProdigy:
is that electrical tape around your piping and green 19lb injectors?

Are you running with the egr and why did you decide your choice?

Do you ever read before posting

Obviously this thread to svtprodigy, is like a porno magazine to most men, he only looks at the pictures..

Mark

Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
its gotta be badass to own such a car! Twin Turbo 3L Duratec

i thought there was a supercar that was basically 2 duratec engines put together...

Yes there is - The Aston Martin Vanquish V12. The engine design is basically 2 3.0L Duratec's put together

gotapex - your project is too cool! Thank you for gracing us here at CEG with your Noble presense

This is the first Noble in the states in the summer of '03 at Road America. Love that blue!

Which event? Damnit I was probably there and missed it!

Brian Redman Challenge.

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:

Thought I'd whore my sightings.

Very nice.

Tiff drove the hell out of that car in TG.

Question: Assuming MSDS + true duals / trubendz exhaust piping, does jethotting the headers and using the exhaust insulation wrapping give a dyno increase ? Or is it just a placebo kinda effect ? (On SVT's of course)

Originally posted by ODC:
Very nice.

Tiff drove the hell out of that car in TG.

Question: Assuming MSDS + true duals / trubendz exhaust piping, does jethotting the headers and using the exhaust insulation wrapping give a dyno increase ? Or is it just a placebo kinda effect ? (On SVT's of course)

IDk about dyno numbers, it just aids in bringing engine bay temps down a lil bit.

Thanks for the welcome, guys.

I was a bit surprised at the 4 x 108 hubs. Honestly it is a bit of a pain, because it means that upgrading my rims requires quite a bit of money. Stock, they're:

18 x 8.5" front, 5.5" backspacing
18 x 10" rear, 6.75" backspacing

2.5" center hole.

Another problem is the calipers, which are pretty big. They tend to be close to the spokes, especially on the front rims.

A 5 bolt system would give us a lot more options in terms of wheels. The vast majority of light wheels do seem to be 5 lug, especially the ones I seem to like.

I'm considering waiting for those carbon fiber / titanium ones to come down in price a bit.

On turbocharged applications Jet-Hot should increase the HP a little bit, but I would say probably not more than a few HP. It'll also increase spool up speed a tad. The main benefit is really the heat management though.

If you take a look at that blue car above, that was the GTO-3. You can tell by the headlights. The steel gray car is a GTO-3R.

The M400 looks like a GTO-3R on the exterior, except it has enlarged side vents, slightly different coloring on exterior trim pieces, and anthracite wheels. I got mine in the silver though, since black on black is a bit too much for me.

BTW, if you guys have time, come visit us at http://www.nobleforums.com. That's the US owner's forum for Nobles. It would be great to exchange ideas. Though not everything will work cross platform, I'm sure there's stuff that we can both benefit from.

I think I am gonna be sick...

The exhaust is almost done. Stock system is kinda weird. Starts with two 2.5" mandrel bent pipes, one per turbo. Goes out to a pair of cats. Then, goes into a Y pipe, and into 1 muffler. Goes from the muffler out to two tips.

Here's a picture of one of the cats. Both are identical.

The weird thing is the muffler. The inlet is that pipe on the right side. The outlets are the holes on the left:

Here it is again:

You can see the air goes into that pipe on the right, then through those tiny holes in the pipe (which is terminated at the end of the muffler body, as you can see), into the body of the muffler, into the tiny holes on the left pipe, and then out through the tips. There's no packing or anything.

I replaced it with this system:

No cats (not required for kit cars), though they can be put back in pretty easily. 2.5" mandrel bent straight through. Two borla mufflers. Stock tips (which are upside down in that picture, but they're not attached yet). We tried to get slightly tighter bends (though still mandrel) for the rear turbo, since the piping is a bit shorter, just to even out the resistance a bit.

Turned it on for the first time. Pretty pleased by the sound.

You are living my frickin' dream, man. Thanks for this great thread.

Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:
You are living my frickin' dream, man. Thanks for this great thread.

This has been one of the most interesting threads I've ever read.

Originally posted by gotapex:

Turned it on for the first time. Pretty pleased by the sound.

Ah sound clips duh. Do we need to train the newbies,lol

Originally posted by livinsvt:

Originally posted by gotapex:

Turned it on for the first time. Pretty pleased by the sound.

Ah sound clips duh. Do we need to train the newbies,lol

I don't have a sound clip for mine yet, but some guy on nsxprime took a short video of one when it passed him. You can hear the sound near the beginning. Turn it up.

http://www.nobleforums.com/images/onyxm400/video/noblepass.mp4

Drove it for the first time tonight. Man, nothing prepared me for the experience. The duratec engine sounds CRAZY. I now know why you guys like it so much.

Originally posted by gotapex:
The duratec engine sounds CRAZY. I now know why you guys like it so much.

gotapex, since engine and trans is sold seperate from the noble, where does everyone get the getrag 6 speed from?

Over on fordcontour.org, there's a thread started by a guy who's been in the car biz for years, and he said that the closest thing a Duratec reminded him of was the Ferrari Dino V6 engine from the 1960s. He and TH were speculating about what a Duratec would sound like with a Weber carb setup.

That would be fuuuuun. I wish more performance cars used this engine.

Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:

That would be fuuuuun. I wish more performance cars used this engine.

http://www.marcos-eng.com/ts250.html

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:

That would be fuuuuun. I wish more performance cars used this engine.

http://www.marcos-eng.com/ts250.html

That's awesome!

They spelled it Duratech... is that UK, or a screw-up?

wasn't the duratec a joint project between ford and porsche/cosworth? that may explain things.

It was all Porsche engineering. Cosworth is responsible for the process used in the cylinders, I believe.

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
gotapex, since engine and trans is sold seperate from the noble, where does everyone get the getrag 6 speed from?

Snakebite performance, the sister company to 1gracing (the US distributor for Noble Cars).

This is great stuff.

Thanks for posting all the pictures. Now I want to see the finished product w/ some dyno plots so I can drool endlessly.

-J

Originally posted by gotapex:

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
gotapex, since engine and trans is sold seperate from the noble, where does everyone get the getrag 6 speed from?

Snakebite performance, the sister company to 1gracing (the US distributor for Noble Cars).

Thanks for the info.

It really is about 1/2 as tall as the VW next to it:

Congrats on getting it completed. How would you(or your tech) rate the diffculty of installtion. Assuming the person perfoming the operation is expereinced. Also what about tuning. I beleive theY send you a pre-programed pcm correct? But what about when doing upgrades, i.e. exhaust, tb, boost etc...

Oh and you need some videos man. The last link did not work for me.

Originally posted by livinsvt:
Congrats on getting it completed. How would you(or your tech) rate the diffculty of installtion. Assuming the person perfoming the operation is expereinced. Also what about tuning. I beleive theY send you a pre-programed pcm correct? But what about when doing upgrades, i.e. exhaust, tb, boost etc...

Oh and you need some videos man. The last link did not work for me.

Thanks. It was kind of a long process, because I wanted to get a bunch of upgrades done at the same time. But at the end, it's all worth it.

The installation isn't horribly difficult, but you need some measure of familiarity with the basic workings of a car.

In terms of the tuning, there's nothing to do with the stock one. Everything is already set. However, I purchased a boost controller, which I still need to play around with, and a traction control system, which I still need to tune. Of the two, the traction control system will probably be more involved, especially since I got the full throttle shifting option, and the launch control option.

BTW, the Fidanza clutch (for the Contour) is GREAT! The car rev's up almost like a motorcycle. The Noble clutch is really REALLY short though, so it takes some getting used to. I've stalled it a few times.

Quote:

BTW, the Fidanza clutch (for the Contour) is GREAT! The car rev's up almost like a motorcycle. The Noble clutch is really REALLY short though, so it takes some getting used to. I've stalled it a few times.

You mean the Fidanza Flywheel?

I'm surprised you use one for a 2.5 in there. You know they just released one for the 3.0L Duratec for the Mazda6? There's probably not much difference though.

Originally posted by sigma:

Quote:

BTW, the Fidanza clutch (for the Contour) is GREAT! The car rev's up almost like a motorcycle. The Noble clutch is really REALLY short though, so it takes some getting used to. I've stalled it a few times.

You mean the Fidanza Flywheel?

I'm surprised you use one for a 2.5 in there. You know they just released one for the 3.0L Duratec for the Mazda6? There's probably not much difference though.

Oops, yeah. The flywheel, not clutch.

The stock noble flywheel is the SVT contour one.

I wonder what differences are between the Contour one and the Mazda one.

I sell the one for the 3.0L Duratec. Here's what it looks like:

It's an 8lber. Not sure what the weight is on the 2.5L one. 8lbs is a HUGE difference over the stock one on the Mazda6 which is 25lbs.

There's also a 15lb one available for the 3.0L (we custom machine it) that is just a lightened version of the stock one that's quite a bit more streetable than the 8lb Fidanza. I doubt anyone with a Noble is really too worried about streetability though

Ah, nice looking. Looks like the center holes are dished, which is different from the Contour one. The Contour one from Fidanza comes out to 9 lbs (plus or minus 0.2 lbs, according to my scale), while the SVT Contour one came out to 19 lbs.

I've definitely stalled it a few times already. It's going to take some getting used to, but it rev's up and down very quickly. The tradeoff is definitely worth it.

A few new pictures.

The HKS Racing Bypass Valve is finally pipped back into the intake (of the front turbo):

Here is the actuator for the Blitz SBC iD-II boost controller.

I pulled the stock solenoid, so that I could lower the boost below stock levels (12 psi). Kinda nice for the break in process. Here's the stock one:

Finished up the exhaust system.

View from driver's side:

View from passenger's side:

Not much left to install.

Still got to break it in, and then fine tune it.

A bigger custom intercooler is coming 4/15/05 or so. I ended up going with a bar & plate design with louvered fins, and tapering (in both directions) end tanks.

I wonder what BOV's would sound like on that car.

My GOD

That's so much work involved there!!

Great Job!

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
I wonder what BOV's would sound like on that car.

the same as our cars.

Ok...scott just put the RFL on his car last fri @ stazi's. Sounds soooo hot.

With that much power/torque, why go with a light flywheel? A heavier flywheel will allow you to maintain more revs between shifts and would drop you into more of the sweet spot than a Fidanza would. Now, with your "foot-to-the-floor" option on the traction control system, this won't really matter, but without it, you will have to blip the gas every time you depress the clutch. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

BTW, sweet car ... you are living a great many people's dreams ... thank whatever god it is you believe in that you can afford this project.

It's a light sports car, so it should rev as quickly as possible. Hence I say he SHOULD have a lightened flywheel. The Porsche Carrera GT doesn't even HAVE a flywheel.

The lighter the flywheel the faster it will accelerate. e.g. F1 cars, Champ cars, motorbikes, etc.

Originally posted by Stazi:
It's a light sports car, so it should rev as quickly as possible. Hence I say he SHOULD have a lightened flywheel. The Porsche Carrera GT doesn't even HAVE a flywheel.

The lighter the flywheel the faster it will accelerate. e.g. F1 cars, Champ cars, motorbikes, etc.

That's a given ... I'm speaking with respect to how it impacts shifting. I did however forget just how light the car was until you replied ... good point.

Originally posted by Stazi:
The Porsche Carrera GT doesn't even HAVE a flywheel.

Stupid question ahead....

So how does the [censored] transfer the power to the ground?

-J

Through the clutch via the crank.

It has a special multiplate clutch that is small in diameter to keep the rotational inertia to a minimum, compared to a regular MT which has the clutch bolted to the flywheel, which is bolted to the crank. In the case of the GT, they left out the flywheel.

uhm.....I would think twice if I saw that car while on my bike.....omg....cleanup aisle 5......where do I sign up for one :drool

Originally posted by Stazi:
Through the clutch via the crank. It has a special multiplate clutch that is small in diameter to keep the rotational inertia to a minimum, compared to a regular MT which has the clutch bolted to the flywheel, which is bolted to the crank. In the case of the GT, they left out the flywheel.

I'm sorry Stazi, but I think you are wrong here:

Far right of the clutch setup looks like a flywheel to me ... toothed gearing for starter engagement.

Post deleted by rmcd79

linky

yep, I was wrong. I just checked the top gear video again. But that "flywheel" is still only the size of a dinner plate. I don't know what I was thinking when I though it was longer.

Porsche Ceramic Composite Clutch

I wouldnt mind one of those... either way the Noble and GT are sweet cars nice work man.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
With that much power/torque, why go with a light flywheel? A heavier flywheel will allow you to maintain more revs between shifts and would drop you into more of the sweet spot than a Fidanza would. Now, with your "foot-to-the-floor" option on the traction control system, this won't really matter, but without it, you will have to blip the gas every time you depress the clutch. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

BTW, sweet car ... you are living a great many people's dreams ... thank whatever god it is you believe in that you can afford this project.

I went with a lightened flywheel because it rev's faster, both up and down. I'm more interested in roadracing than dragracing. Between shifts though, you're dropped to the same RPM, despite the 9 lb difference in flywheel weight.

Originally posted by rmcd79:
That doesn't look like the clutch out of a Carrera GT, unless the perspective is real weird. I remember it being like 9 inches across and 11 inches long, extremely small. I could be wrong though.

That is the ZF Sachs Race Engineering ceramic clutch for the Carrera GT. Info here:

http://www.zfsachs.com/direkt.php?link=owx_7_129494_2_6_0_00000000000000.html

There's no standard dual-mass flywheel, but a flywheel ring gear. Sometimes, they call it flywheel-less. The clutch itself is 6.6" in diameter and 7.7 lbs.

Yeah, it's essentially flywheel-less. It has such little mass that the engine stops from compression before it even turns over once. So instead of the dying engine sound while the moving parts' momentum carries the engine around a few times, it's like a switch: just instant silence and motionlessness.

Care to retract your statement, fastcougar?

must-read about the Carerra GT

flywheel info for Cougar

Originally posted by Stazi:
Care to retract your statement, fastcougar?

I'll be the first to admit when I am wrong ... I'm wrong. I was basing my comment on the picture, which you have to admit looks like a very small flywheel on the right. Here is a link to an article that actually says it has no flywheel ... all the other links simply talk about the clutch setup, not the lack of a flywheel in such a setup: http://www.fast-autos.com/fan/carreragtprodn.html

There are some good reads on 6speedonline, where a bunch of Carrera GT owners post. Quite a few of them hate the on/off feel of the clutch, but most seem to be getting used to them. One guy couldn't even get the car home and sold it immediately.

Originally posted by gotapex:
One guy couldn't even get the car home and sold it immediately.

He didn't deserve it. Tool.

gotapex, do you know the hp limits of the getrag 6 speed gearbox? Has anyone stripped any gears? Whats the highest horsepower Noble running the getrag? Im guessing the Getrag 6 speed is stronger internally than the MTX-75?

nobles are rwd and mid engine cars right? Are you thinking what i think you are thinking?

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
gotapex, do you know the hp limits of the getrag 6 speed gearbox? Has anyone stripped any gears? Whats the highest horsepower Noble running the getrag? Im guessing the Getrag 6 speed is stronger internally than the MTX-75?

I think the most anyone's run on the street is around 400-425 rwhp. Lee Noble's been running one in the mid-engined sports car series and winning though, and I think that's probably putting much more strain on the powertrain than street use.

It uses 265/35YR18 tires in the rear. The stock tires are DOT-R semi-slicks. I'm sure that if we were talking about street tire or smaller tire applications, it could take a LOT more power.

Originally posted by svtProdigy:
nobles are rwd and mid engine cars right? Are you thinking what i think you are thinking?

Yeah, mid-engined, RWD.

how much does the tranny cost?

Originally posted by gotapex:
It uses 265/35YR18 tires in the rear. The stock tires are DOT-R semi-slicks.

I'm afraid I may have just soiled myself. Goodness, are you Noble people ever serious about this car business.

Originally posted by Russell-3L:
how much does the tranny cost?

Sorry, no idea. It's part of the package. I'm sure it's not too bad, as it's from one of the Ford Mondeo models.

Originally posted by 95Sleeper:

Originally posted by gotapex:
It uses 265/35YR18 tires in the rear. The stock tires are DOT-R semi-slicks.

I'm afraid I may have just soiled myself. Goodness, are you Noble people ever serious about this car business.

Treadwear sucks though. I'm guessing it'll last maybe 5000 miles. However, it should be a fun 5000 miles.

Yeah, that really does say 60 treadwear.

gotapex, truely jaw dropping.

just curious how long this drivetrain project took?

It actually took quite awhile because:

1. We were waiting on some parts that were backordered. This was the 6th M400 in the USA.

2. I had my mechanic put in a bunch of upgrades while the engine/tranny were going in. I figured this would be the best way to do things, eventhough it delayed the install a bit.

All in all, it took about 3 months, but most of that was waiting. Actual work time was about 2 weeks.

Off topic, but I had to say this one. We sold a Carrera GT to a guy in Cali like 3 weeks ago. On his first try to drive it, he destroyed the clutch!

There goes $40K!

New custom intercooler from Bell came:

Core Size: 18" long, 10.5" tall, 3.5" thick.
Core Type: Bar & Plate
Fins: curved, louvered

Old one was a 1.97" thick Tube & Fin, with extruded internal fins.

Stock on top:

I went with a dual-tank on the passenger side, to minimize end tank volume & turbulence. End tank, passenger side comparison:

Comparison of passenger side end tank, top view. Stock on left, only tapers in 1 direction. Bell end tank also tapers width wise. Also, because of the bar & plate design, the end tanks can be fit to the width of the intercooler almost exactly:

Comparison of the fins (Bell is sitting atop the stock intercooler). Bell has greater fin density, and louvered fins.

A closer look at the louvered fins on the Bell, along with close up of welds:

Internal fins, huge difference from extruded stock. Also, notice the air passages go from one edge clear to the other:

Another picture where you can also see the air pipes run the entire width, thanks to the bar & plate design. As you can see, tube & fin type intercoolers, like the stock one, have narrower pipes, and less volume, even with the same intercooler width:

Detail on welds at the end pipe, plus detail on the beaded end to hold rubber pipe:

Wow, that is a hell of a quality piece.

Picture of the ugly end of the vehicle (rear end) in front of a fine dining establishment:

Originally posted by gotapex:
Picture of the ugly end of the vehicle (rear end) in front of a fine dining establishment:

HOT DAMN!

Im glad I tipped Mr. Noble off to the 3L

Finally washed. Took forever.

That is insanely hot. The only thing about those Nobles that I don't care for is the tack-on rear wing, since the rear of the body has such a big spoiler shape to it anyway. But who cares, I'd drive the bejeezus out of that car.

I hate you!

Amazing car. Now I want to see some vids.

-J

Originally posted by JVT:
I hate you!

Amazing car. Now I want to see some vids.

-J

Def. Agree!

this post was better than porn

That's hot.

Additional heat shielding (bubble type) for the intercooler box:

Intercooler installed:

Still need to get the fans installed. Picked up a pair of Zirgo 8" fans, set for pull-type, for the back of the intercooler. Together, that's 2000 CFM's. A digital thermometer will measure the intercooler outlet temperature to tell the fans when to turn on. A secondary switch in the cabin will allow me to bypass the thermometer.

Pretty cool. You seem to be going all out with this, but in all the right ways.

Thats Noble I told you about with the chick driving was at a local car show on Sunday. Didn't get to check it out to much, but it had HRE wheels on it,

Originally posted by livinsvt:
Pretty cool. You seem to be going all out with this, but in all the right ways.

Thats Noble I told you about with the chick driving was at a local car show on Sunday. Didn't get to check it out to much, but it had HRE wheels on it,

This one?

http://www.nobleforums.com/showthread.php?t=130

Thats it. I guess a guy drove it in. Since my buddy saw it the first time, he said it was the same car, looks like its owned by a guy. Were that turbo NSX you mentioned to me,lol?

Originally posted by gotapex:
Picture of the ugly end of the vehicle (rear end) in front of a fine dining establishment:

i thought that Denny's looked familiar. is that Denny's on the "strip"?

oh yeah, noice car!

I noticed that this month's Car & Driver had a letter from a guy who bought a Noble and proclaimed it to be garbage. Seen it? My guess is it's sour grapes from an "average" owner, not someone who's got the skills you and your wrenching buddies do.

Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:
I noticed that this month's Car & Driver had a letter from a guy who bought a Noble and proclaimed it to be garbage. Seen it? My guess is it's sour grapes from an "average" owner, not someone who's got the skills you and your wrenching buddies do.

Actually, it was a Superformance S1 he purchased in 2002, I believe. The rolling chassis is put together in the same factory, but they're completely different designs. I agree though. It seems the difference between those that love their component cars and those that have a complete nightmare on their hands is their choice of mechanics.

Anyhow, it looks like I completely fried the heat shield blanket on my turbos, in under 1000 miles.

I may have chosen the wrong company's product.

Before:

After:

The entire heat shield has a black felt-like material on the underside. Every part of it that touched the turbo completely burnt off. Not even dust remained.

Whoops that sucks

Guess those babies are getting a little warm you must be driving it right then

If that rear end is what you call ugly, then you must have been raised on milk and honey! Wow!

Originally posted by livinsvt:
Thats it. I guess a guy drove it in. Since my buddy saw it the first time, he said it was the same car, looks like its owned by a guy. Were that turbo NSX you mentioned to me,lol?

jorligan, from NSX Prime.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=431675#post431675

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49786

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43173

Anyhow...

Got my replacement turbo blankets. These things better last.

Got the pair of 8" Zirgo fans in. They're the highest performing narrow 8" fans I could find, each rated at 1000 cfm's.

http://www.zirgo.com/detail.lasso?itemid=ZF8

Installing the fans, we had to shave a good section off of the bezel to give us the amount of clearance we wanted. We pretty much shaved it within a few mm of the blades. If we wanted more clearance, we would have needed to shave the bottoms, to drop the fans down more, but that was unnecessary.

The wiring is not complete yet, of course, nor is the intercooler box screwed back on the chassis yet.

Here is the view from the front:

Here is the temp sensor plug. We haven't decided for sure whether to silicon glue it into the end tank of the intercooler (right below the exit pipe), or mount it on the fins on the outside. Inside will give a more accurate reading, though it does present some risks as well.

They are just like the blanket I have from the ADC kit. Mines held up fine.

me want a noble now.......wish i had 70k

what is the total you have spent making the kit car

Originally posted by Stazi:
They are just like the blanket I have from the ADC kit. Mines held up fine.

Great, thanks. Just got the forward one in, which was by far the more difficult one. I'm hoping to not have to replace them again.

Originally posted by fordrule:
me want a noble now.......wish i had 70k
what is the total you have spent making the kit car

Depends on model (GTO-3R or M400) and options. Normally, they cost between $75k and $100k.

Got around to washing again.

The clear bra is definitely a good investment. Those Pirelli Corsa's pick up rocks like crazy, especially when they're properly heated up from a good canyon run.

And, after some drying:

Very nice ! I like that car a lot .

Beautiful, as usual. Might I ask what your wax of choice is?

Thanks. It's been lots of fun so far. I'm hoping to get it on a dyno soon, so I can bump up the boost while keeping an eye on air/fuel. A nice even 500hp would be nice.

I'm using Zaino Z-2 Pro, and some Z-6 gloss enhancer. So far, I'm very impressed. The longevity seems good, despite being on a black car.

Ahhhh, Zaino rules! I need a fresh coat on my car speaking of Zaino. Does it come painted out of the box or do you ahve to get that done on your own? It looks like a pretty good paint job either way. And still a Hawt car!

Needs More Hyundai Sonata!

lol

Originally posted by Metric System Chris:
Needs More Hyundai Sonata!

Yeah, actually I need to pick 2 of those up, since I'm planning to replace my clamshells with carbon fiber ones. It should shave the weight down another 100 lbs. Once I do that and the carbon fiber wheels, it should be under 2200 lbs.

Originally posted by gotapex:

Yeah, actually I need to pick 2 of those up, since I'm planning to replace my clamshells with carbon fiber ones. It should shave the weight down another 100 lbs. Once I do that and the carbon fiber wheels, it should be under 2200 lbs.

Wait, swapping out the stock tailight assemblies for a (what I'm guessing) carbon fiber LED setup will make a weight savings of 100 lbs?? Geezus, that just doesn't seem right!

Originally posted by PlatoSVT:

Originally posted by gotapex:

Yeah, actually I need to pick 2 of those up, since I'm planning to replace my clamshells with carbon fiber ones. It should shave the weight down another 100 lbs. Once I do that and the carbon fiber wheels, it should be under 2200 lbs.

Wait, swapping out the stock tailight assemblies for a (what I'm guessing) carbon fiber LED setup will make a weight savings of 100 lbs?? Geezus, that just doesn't seem right!

No, full front and rear clamshells. They're GRP composite right now. I'd want to pick up new taillights instead of popping out my stock ones.

i hate you now more than ever

kidding bud, car looks absolutely amazing as always. and we all know it performs as well. keep posting your car pr0n, i love it.

Friend traded up his Nikon D2h for a D2x, so he offered to take some pictures for me. It's amazing how much better the pictures are from that dSLR then my cr@ppy point and shoot.

Finally dyno'd.

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=dynodrag&Number=1009260&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1

So ripped the engine out awhile ago. Changing a bunch of stuff. Going for 600+hp

Here's the engine build as it stands now.

1.2mm copper head gasket good for about 1000hp or so.

Ported heads on:

Ferrera super alloy valves, Ferrera retainers, Ferrera keepers, Ferrera valve springs, SPS bolts.

Your engine makes my pants happy.

And good luck with gettin the car back together! Hope all goes smoothly. What other parts are you waiting on?

you are insane!!! but dammmn that is one sexy lookin engine!! I guess alot of hp is never enough for u..your a trooper!

So you drive a Noble and your wife has a brand new M5? You have my vote for the most envied CEG'r

its sooo purty!!

thats just sick.

are those rims 4x108?

Amazing. No other word could describe it.

Originally posted by m!key:
are those rims 4x108?

yes mam

Originally posted by Goonz SVT:

Originally posted by m!key:
are those rims 4x108?

yes mam

Hehe, yep, so if anyone wants to upgrade theirs after I figure out what to get...

Originally posted by gotapex:

Originally posted by Goonz SVT:

Originally posted by m!key:
are those rims 4x108?

yes mam

Hehe, yep, so if anyone wants to upgrade theirs after I figure out what to get...

how much do stock noble wheels weigh?

how much do noble wheels go for used?

i will however need all 4 to be the front wheels.

Isn't the offset for a RWD vehicle?

Mark

Yeah, the offset, width, and stagger setup would probably not be practical with the Contour.

thats a nice looking engine you got there. makes me drool with jealousy

well the rear wheels are spinning but the engine is in the back so.....

Originally posted by m!key:
well the rear wheels are spinning but the engine is in the back so.....

The problem is with stock power (425hp), you can chirp the tires shifting into 4th gear (and spin like crazy in the lower gears). This is with the stock 265/35R-18 DOT-R semi-slicks.

I'm definitely going to need to find a solution to get more grip back there, even with 60% of the weight in the back.

Originally posted by gotapex:

Originally posted by m!key:
well the rear wheels are spinning but the engine is in the back so.....

The problem is with stock power (425hp), you can chirp the tires shifting into 4th gear (and spin like crazy in the lower gears). This is with the stock 265/35R-18 DOT-R semi-slicks.

I'm definitely going to need to find a solution to get more grip back there, even with 60% of the weight in the back.

Wow! And you're still adding more power? You track the car, right? Just out of curiosity, why are you adding more power? Is it not fast enough or bragging rights?
What kind of suspension does the car have, front and rear?

Originally posted by m�?¶bius:

Originally posted by gotapex:

Originally posted by m!key:
well the rear wheels are spinning but the engine is in the back so.....

The problem is with stock power (425hp), you can chirp the tires shifting into 4th gear (and spin like crazy in the lower gears). This is with the stock 265/35R-18 DOT-R semi-slicks.

I'm definitely going to need to find a solution to get more grip back there, even with 60% of the weight in the back.

Wow! And you're still adding more power? You track the car, right? Just out of curiosity, why are you adding more power? Is it not fast enough or bragging rights?
What kind of suspension does the car have, front and rear?

More power is mainly for the higher speeds. I'm going to be working on the aerodynamics too. I also hope to be able to fit 285 or 295 tires with slightly wider wheels. It's such a close fit though, it'll require a wheel manufacturer to come down to actually measure everything.

The suspension is a bespoke coilover with Dynamic Suspension dampeners and Eibach ERS (Eibach Race Springs) springs. There's a front sway bar, but no rear.

Here's a picture:

The lower end M12 GTO-3R gets a bespoke coilover Bilstein shock and H&R springs, with no front sway bar. You can see them in the back:

Originally posted by gotapex:

Originally posted by m�?¶bius:

Originally posted by gotapex:

Originally posted by m!key:
well the rear wheels are spinning but the engine is in the back so.....

The problem is with stock power (425hp), you can chirp the tires shifting into 4th gear (and spin like crazy in the lower gears). This is with the stock 265/35R-18 DOT-R semi-slicks.

I'm definitely going to need to find a solution to get more grip back there, even with 60% of the weight in the back.

Wow! And you're still adding more power? You track the car, right? Just out of curiosity, why are you adding more power? Is it not fast enough or bragging rights?
What kind of suspension does the car have, front and rear?

More power is mainly for the higher speeds. I'm going to be working on the aerodynamics too. I also hope to be able to fit 285 or 295 tires with slightly wider wheels. It's such a close fit though, it'll require a wheel manufacturer to come down to actually measure everything.

The suspension is a bespoke coilover with Dynamic Suspension dampeners and Eibach ERS (Eibach Race Springs) springs. There's a front sway bar, but no rear.

Here's a picture:

The lower end M12 GTO-3R gets a bespoke coilover Bilstein shock and H&R springs, with no front sway bar. You can see them in the back:

Please stop..you're killing me!!!

MUST......WIN........LOTERRY!

Wow, I want to see that baby in action!

Originally posted by gotapex:

Originally posted by m�?¶bius:

Originally posted by gotapex:

Originally posted by m!key:
well the rear wheels are spinning but the engine is in the back so.....

The problem is with stock power (425hp), you can chirp the tires shifting into 4th gear (and spin like crazy in the lower gears). This is with the stock 265/35R-18 DOT-R semi-slicks.

I'm definitely going to need to find a solution to get more grip back there, even with 60% of the weight in the back.

Wow! And you're still adding more power? You track the car, right? Just out of curiosity, why are you adding more power? Is it not fast enough or bragging rights?
What kind of suspension does the car have, front and rear?

The suspension is a bespoke coilover with Dynamic Suspension dampeners and Eibach ERS (Eibach Race Springs) springs. There's a front sway bar, but no rear.

Here's a picture:

The lower end M12 GTO-3R gets a bespoke coilover Bilstein shock and H&R springs, with no front sway bar. You can see them in the back:

Contact patch is everything...

Actually, I guess I didn't word my question very well and since I'm pressed on time I haven't been able to research it. What type of suspension is on the Noble? SLA? Double McPherson? Live axle? How is it designed?

Originally posted by m�?¶bius:

Originally posted by gotapex:

Originally posted by m�?¶bius:

Originally posted by gotapex:

Originally posted by m!key:
well the rear wheels are spinning but the engine is in the back so.....

The problem is with stock power (425hp), you can chirp the tires shifting into 4th gear (and spin like crazy in the lower gears). This is with the stock 265/35R-18 DOT-R semi-slicks.

I'm definitely going to need to find a solution to get more grip back there, even with 60% of the weight in the back.

Wow! And you're still adding more power? You track the car, right? Just out of curiosity, why are you adding more power? Is it not fast enough or bragging rights?
What kind of suspension does the car have, front and rear?

The suspension is a bespoke coilover with Dynamic Suspension dampeners and Eibach ERS (Eibach Race Springs) springs. There's a front sway bar, but no rear.

Here's a picture:

The lower end M12 GTO-3R gets a bespoke coilover Bilstein shock and H&R springs, with no front sway bar. You can see them in the back:

Contact patch is everything...

Actually, I guess I didn't word my question very well and since I'm pressed on time I haven't been able to research it. What type of suspension is on the Noble? SLA? Double McPherson? Live axle? How is it designed?

Double wishbone, front and rear. Lee Noble worked on chassis development for the McLaren F1, and, of course, wanted to make his own car handle even better.

Originally posted by gotapex:

Double wishbone, front and rear. Lee Noble worked on chassis development for the McLaren F1, and, of course, wanted to make his own car handle even better.

I need to finish my current project(s) so I can work on something really fast.

Timing chain, cams, etc in.

Upper intake manifold powdercoated. Started a candy apple red, but mixed darker for more of a blood crimson.

Man that UIM is bloody sweet

Thought Noble's would have the tumble port heads. So is there an IMRC or something that control's the secondaries or are they just gutted?

Originally posted by Todd aRRRRRRRRR.:
Thought Noble's would have the tumble port heads. So is there an IMRC or something that control's the secondaries or are they just gutted?

Todd, look again. It looks like a special LIM - it looks taller than the Contour unit to me, and with NO through shaft holes for the secondaries. I wander if it is and adapter to a tumble port head?

Originally posted by Stazi:
Todd, look again. It looks like a special LIM - it looks taller than the Contour unit to me, and with NO through shaft holes for the secondaries. I wander if it is and adapter to a tumble port head?

i see holes.

You are right.

He must've had the ends welded and ground flat cos you can't see them from the outside, but when you looks inside the ports you see them.

I took into to Photoshop and lightened and zoomed in. Looks like it is an adapter. So 2ndary butterflys or shafts anyways. That would be nice to do to our cars! Still need to fab up EGR since the UIM would be higher. You would need a cowl hood for the space.

Edit: Guess I still can't tell if it has secondaries. Guess we'll have to wait for Apex.

Originally posted by Todd aRRRRRRRRR.:
I took into to Photoshop and lightened and zoomed in. Looks like it is an adapter. So 2ndary butterflys or shafts anyways. That would be nice to do to our cars! Still need to fab up EGR since the UIM would be higher. You would need a cowl hood for the space.

Edit: Guess I still can't tell if it has secondaries. Guess we'll have to wait for Apex.

Are you guys blind! THere are no secondaries!

No secondaries.

Remember, entirely different control system on this vehicle. No MAF, no EGR either.

RC Engineering 750CC (71.4#) injectors got here.

Compared with the little 42# Ford Lightning Greentops:

that thing is phat! and fat!

wow. im gonna have to say thats a big difference between the two. looks good.

Should've just gotten BiggsvT28 to handle your fuel injection needs. LOL this picture is freaking OLD!

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
Should've just gotten BiggsvT28 to handle your fuel injection needs. LOL this picture is freaking OLD!

And un-linked!!