how come? - CEG Archives

Dude, it's the off-season. Everybody's holed up in their garages.

off season? Nice and sunny here

Though... our region isn't running this month because Phoenix International Raceway cancelled our agreement because "we were tearing up their asphault". Funny that the courses are designed around their crappy parkinglots (cracks, holes, etc). PIR was fun though... they gave us 3 big lots, so the courses were really fast (hit 3rd gear a couple times) and average course times were still around 65-80 seconds (depending on layout).

We're back at Firebird Intl Raceway starting next month (tiny skidpad).

has anyone ever ran in autocross here? I think out duretec runs in the G class. I will run in one of these if I get a chance to.
joe

I instruct track days occasionally at waterford hills. If you are ever interested coming out send me a pm. I'll probably be doing quite a few this year.

PS I wonder how my grand cherokee would fare?

I autox regularly, though in my escort. Roger is right, it's off-season (our season starts next month though

). Which reminds me, I really should be fixing a couple things.

Contours aren't bad for autox, so if you're thinking about starting, go for it. No way can they be nationally competetive, but locally you can have fun. I ran mine once here and got a great time with it and it's just an auto zetec.

Yeah... the Contour (SVT and non-SVT) is GS. I did pretty good in GS... 1-5 place each event. But now I'm in STS Open... and everyone else in that class has loads of mods. I only ran 1 event in STSO before my diff seized though

So are you saying zetec powered contours aren't contours?!?!?

j/k .... but zetecs are in HS.

heheh you mean long focus's

Actually... I'm sure the HS Contours do pretty well in HS. I know Focus's are pretty competitive. SVT Focus's (GS) don't seem to do as well.

One of the guys that goes to nationals has a stock Focus and an SVT Focus. He autocrosses his non-SVT.

I would love to run my car in somekind of auto cross, or just take it out on a track sometime. My biggest problem is the ATX. lol

Don't worry about the ATX. just come out and have some FUN!!!

Yeah... and make sure you run an extra .5 quart of oil too. I always put in 6.5 quarts when changing my oil.

Where are there tracks in PA? I'm pretty sure they are some out there! Maybe this summer I'll have a little fun. I would love to have a track with turns that it would be safe to lose my car in.

All the turns were I live are hills and dirt enbankments(had to learn that lesson twice)

Well we can run at SZ this year. I just asked if we have any more details about this and I will research what needs to be done to the cars before we are allowed to run. I am pretty sure that we have to wear a helmet and have to have numbers for our cars(magnetic?). Anyone with experince in this please clarify.

Originally posted by ZeroHour:
I would love to run my car in somekind of auto cross, or just take it out on a track sometime. My biggest problem is the ATX. lol

I actually ran on a course once that the atx was beneficial. Of course the take-off was slow, but once going, I stayed in first the whole time, almost always in my power band. All the other cars had to shift or be out of the power band at times. I was able to run a great time that day. Obviously not every course is like that.

Originally posted by ZeroHour:
Where are there tracks in PA? I'm pretty sure they are some out there! Maybe this summer I'll have a little fun. I would love to have a track with turns that it would be safe to lose my car in.

BeaveRun is a GREAT track just west of Pittsburgh. I try to get there at least 2-3 times a year. Then another 2 hours or so west of that is Mid-Ohio which is another EXCELLENT track.
Check Track Schedule for updates on who is renting what tracks when.
Good luck! Email me or post with any questions you may have.

Depending on where you are in Eastern PA, you have a choice of SCCA chapters and others. In the Harrisburg area, we run at Park City Mall in Lancaster, Hershey Park and the Farm Show Parking lot in Harrisburg. Check www.scca-susq.com for more info.

John

Let me know when you are at park city. I will be there to watch. I live about 3 miles from there.

Originally posted by Hdbngr8:
My guess is that the vast majority of people are interested in dyno queens and/or drag racing. There are a few of us that drive on road courses and/or auto-cross. Check out the SVTOA - they have many events throughout the country and are a lot of fun. May also want to check into local car clubs and see whats available.

Yeah, no matter what kind of car it is, you'll tend to find many more of them at the drag strip than at the autocross, and even less in a sanctioned road course race. It's simply because it's easier to drag race... there's less to learn as a driver, it's easier to do well, low entry cost, possible winnings, and it's easier and more convenient to participate. It's something that just anybody off the street can do, and with a small amount of advice and practice, they'll do as well as their car will let them.

Autocross is fun and all, but it's quite intimidating to a novice, and many are hesistant to try it. Novices are also sometimes a bit discouraged after their first event because they don't do well, and it takes participation in many events for them to start to become competitive drivers. Many just blame their lack of performance on their car not being prepared enough, and we don't see them out there again. Obviously, we all know that the car only performs as well as the driver, but novices usually wont believe that until they figure it out for themselves, and plenty quit before that. So, if their whole goal is to go out there and show everyone what a great driver they are and what a badass car they have, looking for bragging rights, they wont exactly be having a lot of fun, then they'll make excuses, bad mouth autocrossing, and never return. You also have to invest your entire day out there and do a work assignment, but the drag strip gives you freedom. So, autocross is really only enjoyable for people who have fun just doing it, even when they don't do well, and are willing to invest time and energy into improving themself as a driver, rather than modifying the car more.

And that's just autocross, which is pretty entry-level and not even officially called "racing". There's are much higher commitments and prerequisites to enter an event under a Club Racing sanction. Of course, once you get into it on that level, there's a lot more freedom, seat time, and fun than autocross or drag... it's just really damn expensive and you've already invested a lot of time and money to even be qualified for such events. Some people will go to an open track day where anyone with a helmet can go out on the road course, but that's not racing, and the novice thing kicks in again when they are constantly being passed by "lesser" cars that happen to have experienced drivers. Some will be humble enough to have fun and decide to actually get into the sport and greatly improve their driving, but most will make excuses and stay away from anything involving turns, because they don't want to get their doors blown off again.

In any case, I'll probably take my daily driven '98 LX out to an autocross one of these days, just to see what I can do with a Contour... I already took it out to the road course once, back when it was open for free to me and I had already gone through all of the race car's brakes. I was a bit pleasantly surprised at how it handled. Being a 100% stock 2.0L Zetec at 5000+ ft elevation, it sure didn't have any acceleration, but I was pleased with how it handled and braked. It certainly responded well for it's super-soft stock suspension, didn't have as much understeer as I was expecting, it was stable, and the stock brakes really held up well, even with drums in the rear. My only beef is that I don't have a tach and the engine is too quiet to hear, so my shift points were less than optimal. I believe it has decent potential, and it would make an awesome sleeper.

I love being the underdog, so I'm somewhat tempted to make a few modifications to this car and surprise the hell out of a bunch of people. My designated race car is to well known to be able to do that much anymore. I'm not sure if I really want another money pit, but I do see a lot of easily unlocked potential in it...

WestonP22:

You really have that right!!

I'm older than most of the people on this forum and did my first auto-x a week after I got the Tour. In four runs I learned that after 30 years of driving on the street, I still didn't know how to drive. I'm getting better but I think I lost most of my fearlessness so I'm haveing a hard time improving but I'm having GOBS and GOBS of fun!!!

I hope to do a track day at Summit Point W.VA this year.

John

It wouldn't cost too much to make your contour handle very well and maybe have a bit more acceleration (o yeah, swap in a cluster with tach). Shouldn't really be a money pit unless you're doing something crazy with it.

Yup... because of autocrossing, I was able to avoid a significant accident in my Cougar. A lady made a u-turn from the right lane (I was in the left) and I almost t-boned her at about 40mph. My initial reaction was to hit the brakes as she was still going forward.... then she stopped.. right in my path. My non-anti-lock brakes locked up and started sliding towards her. At the last second (literally) I let off, and slolommed her. I think that if I didn't have decent autocross tires (Azenis RT-215's) and had been autocrossing for a couple seasons... I would have smacked right into her. I was amazed that I didn't even hit her front bumper. When my wifes car needed new tires, I was sure to put more sticky rubber on.

When my daughters are of driving age, I'll make sure they spend at least one season autocrossing, just for the experience. I'm sure they'll get hooked though (oooh, that might get expensive).

Originally posted by morbid:
heheh you mean long focus's

Actually... I'm sure the HS Contours do pretty well in HS. I know Focus's are pretty competitive. SVT Focus's (GS) don't seem to do as well.

One of the guys that goes to nationals has a stock Focus and an SVT Focus. He autocrosses his non-SVT.

I race SCCA Solo II (H Stock) with an Zetec Auto and actually won my class in one race. Went up against 2 Civics and an older Mercades Benz Diesel. Yes, H Stock seems like a good class for the 2.0L Contour.

Originally posted by ZeroHour:
Where are there tracks in PA? I'm pretty sure they are some out there!

Check www.autox4u.com

Philly SCCA runs at Nazareth Speedway, as well as a few sites
in and around philly.

A few notes:
Waergle is right, DON'T RallyCross a car you want to not break. I was going to do it until I did some research. It's VERY tough on the car. Think like bent strut towers happen frequently.

Autocross on the other hand, is fine. The oil starvation problem isn't an issue. If you run 6.5-7qts, you should never find a right-hander long enough to run it dry. You're changing direction so quickly that it's just not a big deal. If you're really, really worried, show up early and look for any really long right handers, and express your concern to the course designer. Every region I've run with would gladly put another element in a sweeper for you, provided you tell them early enough. Then again, the odds of even finding a corner where you will be cornering at max. speed for more than three or four seconds is very slim.

I encourage everyone to change their oil, check bearings/wheel lugs/tie rod ends, and go try it. I've sort of semi-retired from CEG because of the direction it's taken, as have some others who used to frequent this forum. There's just not much interest anymore, so it's usually pretty empty. Check out SCCAforums.com: Kremit, Moxnix, myself, RogerB (I think) and others are there. Not much Contour information, but lots of autocross talk. Come on over!

I'm over there occasionally, as well as GRMOnline.

We had 1 course that I called "The Engine Killer". It was pretty much all right turns... with a long right hand sweeper around the back (about 5 seconds long). I did ok, but I kind of did a blocky sweeper... went straight for the majority of the sweeper and angled the entrance/exit. I got paranoid and didn't want to risk the engine

. Some of the other drivers also voiced their concern, so I'd assume we're not the only ones with engines that have oiling issues.

Originally posted by RogerB:
I'm over there occasionally, as well as GRMOnline.

But if you see "RogerB" on GRMOnline... that's me.

I'm not on SCCAForums.com... yet. Too many forums already.

I browse grm cc and sccaforums. I too have more of less stopped posting here as it is very apparent that the focus of the site has shifted.

What's your handle on C-C?

RogerB, what do you go by over at GRM?

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
What's your handle on C-C?

RogerB, what do you go by over at GRM?

Any time the other RogerB gets there first,

I go by RogerBvonCEG.

Originally posted by morbid:
Some of the other drivers also voiced their concern, so I'd assume we're not the only ones with engines that have oiling issues.

It's not that uncommon when you take a street car to the extreme of its handling capability that it will have oiling issues. VW comes to mind. I'm sure there are others.

best thing you can do for driving in autox is to take the evolution driving school. I did it last year and im gonna do it again this year, if for nothing but seat time. Got 16 runs in last year. Plus i have a totally different Cougar this year(full cage, 3L, mtx)

I ran in SM last year in my built 2.5 atx and almost always finished in the top 15 of 40 -50 drivers, couple top tens in raw times. I won one event in the rain, and have a bunch of 2nd places

the biggest thing in my region is that if your there obvioulsy you want to do it. So if you take it seriously others will take you seriously and help you out. Have someone videotape you run as well so you can see your mistakes