I'm in the process to push for either an actual production or even a regrind GB through Comp Cams. I'm also checking with as many cam producers as I can to make sure this happens.
So what I need to know is how many people would be serious enough to want some new cams? After talking to Terry and many other Duratec Gods, I've been aiming for just 10 degrees more lift. Nothing is set in stone, so sound off if there is some interest!
I would be interested if the price is right and if it would work in 3.0 heads
depending on cost and who the final manufacturer is going to be. i like crane though ive only used them in a small block chev. also when it is set, let me know the specs on it.
thanks,
John
I will be talking with Crane also. I've always used their cams in my previous projects with 100% satisfaction.
This is still in the earliest form, BUT I want to get some numbers before I get too deep into this and then find there isn't enough to get something to go through.
Again, this is just to check for interest in a 'better' than SVT cam or even a re-grind GB. More info to come within the next month.
I know I want some better cams regardless, and I figured if I was going to do the leg work maybe others would like to reap the benefits
Does anyone know if more lift is good or bad for Forced induction?
I THINK FI guys would want the normal Duratec cams. You might loose power running more lift with FI.
Lift = good.
Duration = semi bad...
Overlap = very bad.
You want a little bit more lift to allow better air flow into/out of the engine. (Hence Demon's post in FI)
ill be building a 3l this spring/summer, so im interested depending on when this would happen.
Originally posted by chknhwk:
You know me. I'm in!
Chknhwk, you're a GB whore!!!! 
Definitely interested
also interested.
Would I benefit from having a custom exhaust with a cam like this, or would my gutted/magnaflows work ok?
I'd be interested, I figure I would get close to 25mor hp
Seriously, let us know what the specs are, what we should expect in terms of gains, etc.
Originally posted by Sharkey:
also interested.
Would I benefit from having a custom exhaust with a cam like this, or would my gutted/magnaflows work ok?
They'd work ok, but you could always gain more power with higher flowing U/LIM, heads, exhaust, injectors w/ engine managment, ect
Also, without any specs hammered out I would be hesitant to guess what power increase you'd see. If cost is outragouse for NEW cams, then I'll be going down the re-grind route. If this is the case, we could be getting FI and NA friendly specs readily available. The only problems with the regrind is that were are working with a thin skinned heat treated cam. We only have so much to play with before we actually ruin the cams.
BUT,
This was just to give you guys an idea about what I'm facing. I still am in the earliest stages of trying to get this done. If it all works out, then we'll all have that much more out there in the world of Duratec options!! Cam options now are lacking to say the least!
try to get ahold of david z and see if he still has the specs of his old cams.....maybe he would be so kind to let that info loose.
How about if we contacted the people that were making cams for Leo Capaldi?
For re-grinds I would say that it'd be just for NA purposes and a FI version wouldn't come from just a re-grind. If completely new cams can be made for a fair price, then both NA and FI guys would have a new options of cam profiles.
I have sent off an email to Leo Capaldi in hopes of getting in on his source or even 'used' cams for sale. As with all of the other emails I've sent off, if no replies by next week then I'll hit the phone up.
I have already got DemonSVT willing to put his ideas of cam profiles into play if we get the option of doing so.
After having a 50/50 history with email replies from companies in the past I'm not expecting much from it and am planning on making a bunch of calls next week. But if a company is on top of their game and respond via email......even better. I really want this to work and am willing to put in whatever I can to do this even if it turns out to just be a source rather than a GB.
Sounds cool!
I'm in if the price is right.
How would these hotter cams affect streetability? Or would they?
i am DEFINATELY in!
I would deffinatly be interested. But if i would buy them depends on the price.
Originally posted by SVTnKC:
Chknhwk, you're a GB whore!!!!
Uh huh!
Hey, I've got an idea: why don't you send us the info on the company that seems most interested in the idea and we can email them asking them how close they are to completing it? That way they can gauge how much interest there is w/o going only on your word? Good idea?
Will do, but it's looking like I'll be making calls after all at the start of next week.
Keep in mind that these aren't going to be low cost right off the bat if we end up getting them produced. This would be a good alternative for NA guys to milk as much power by altering the power band to our favor. FI guys would have to be really seriouse to add the expense of aftermarket cams on top of the turbo expense!
People are paying about $5K for turbo kits, $3-4K for the supercharger and almost if not over a grand for custom headlights. I've heard ballpark figures on production costs, and it would be an investment. Deffinatly one of those items that you're going to only get if you plan on keeping them.
I'm not trying to scare anyone off, I just want the totally eager beavers to stick around if ya smell me.
I'm not going anywhere!! I've tried contacting people about custom cams a few times but to no avail... I'm very interested!
I've got a lead on a company called Kinetics. They are setup to give us what we want too! Now to get in contact and over come some sticker shock
Originally posted by Swazo:
I've got a lead on a company called Kinetics. They are setup to give us what we want too! Now to get in contact and over come some sticker shock
IIRC, that's the same company that made Leo Capaldi's cams.
Nice!
Things are getting sweeter by the minuet!
ME LIKES THE SOUNDS OF THIS
Ya kinetics is bout half hour from my house. I have a friend that works there. Thats definitly a good start. But I think Leo is running stock svt cams (at least I think he used to). A place that I planned on calling when/if money permitted. Good luck
My Lord, I am in! Price of course is an issue, but don't see them being more than 1200. For nice cams, that is worth it for N/A people. Now if we could only get some domed pistons....
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Ya kinetics is bout half hour from my house. I have a friend that works there. Thats definitly a good start. But I think Leo is running stock svt cams (at least I think he used to). A place that I planned on calling when/if money permitted. Good luck
Originally posted by Swazo:
Nice! Things are getting sweeter by the minuet!
Need I say anything else??
I do hope it can be as easy as it seems to be working out, but I do know nothing is easy in the duratec field. So I am getting a good call list going for monday. I won't count any source out until they count themselves out. So hopefully Kinetics will work out, if not we have other sources to try out. The very worst thing that can happen is that we end up empty handed. But at the very least I expect to get some regrinds going.
CEG'ers kick ass! I've received a lot of support with this! Thanks guys!!!!
im in, but i think sho shop in california, is already reserching the best grind for our cars
Let's just say, IF they do then great! No need for a GB anymore, we'll just go to them. But then again it'd be marked up 200% if it's from them.
They were also going to have the 3.5L released in late December, and I've yet to see or hear anything about it.
On a side note, Leo Capaldi got back to me this morning. I guess they are getting ready for a "test day" and he'll see what he can do about having something ready for us after he finishes with his car.
I've been talking to Horse (Scot) about Kinetics and Leo Capaldi a bit, since Horse is the one who pointed me towards Kinetics in the first place. To give you guys an idea of the power Leo Capaldi and Kinetics have been able to muster with a duratec is high enough to strip the first 3 gears at WOT, totally NA might I add!!!!!
Have I said that things are getting sweeter by the minuet yet????
Originally posted by Swazo:
To give you guys an idea of the power Leo Capaldi and Kinetics have been able to muster with a duratec is high enough to strip the first 3 gears at WOT, totally NA might I add!!!!!
Have I said that things are getting sweeter by the minuet yet????
I have been wanting to find out what his new setup is. It sounds great. I think this is going to be the best and problay ony realistic shot we might have. Will see.
THe SVT cams already have more duration we need more lift and if the price is right I'm definately in.
Lift is the only thing we can change if we end up with only a regrind for an option. We are also very limited in how much we change them because of a pre-existing hardened 'skin'. We can only grind so much before we cut through the hardened skin into the softer metal underneath. If that happens, we cannot re-heat treat them as it would make them extremely brittle. If we end up running the cams without knowing the skin has been penetrated they will wear out pretty quick and begin to "custom mill themselves" to various profiles until you ran into problems with valve to piston clearance, ect. Not fun if that crap happened to a fresh 3L Hybrid!!!! Sure that's one of many worst case situations that could happen if things went wrong.
From what I understand, we have to get them CNC machined. Once we know for sure how much room we have to play with on the skin, then it's on for the re-grind! I do have an extra set of SVT cams that I bought specific+ly for this purpose, so I won't need anyone to give anything up. If anyone has anything to loose it's me as they'd be the sacrifice if things go wrong.
Keep in mind, if we have new cams actually built it's gonna be around the 1750-2500 range IMO. New SVT cams are 1200+ new, so think about what you'd be getting for the money.
The quest for cam producers is leading to a bunch of dead ends, so it's really looking like Kinetics or Leo Capaldi is our best bet. I have a few more people to call/pester, so it's not down to them yet. I'll post when something turns up. Something will come of this GB....count on it!
OK,
I need to know who is still interested so far........
well, I'm interested, I just don't know what I'm getting into, so I guess I'll just wait as information develops. . .I've been reading about cam modifications, and they're pretty tricky, and I've seen power yields of only about 10hp or so on other platforms, so I'm just confused and lost about what gains are potentially expected, the loss of durability from regrinding cams (Which I assume will decrease durability since you're taking away metal on an engine part, which will increase heat transfer, etc.), and how much installation would cost (and would I need to rebalance my block and get it blueprinted?) My nanner is asleep as well. . .
Suneil
Well the gains I'm talking about are from a 3L hybrid that is built to soley take advantage of the new cam profile. This would be based on NEW cams, not reground versions. If you are looking to just slap the cams in a stock 2.5L with no mods to support the new power band......then don't expect to get a whole bunch of power from them.
But the cost of these cams should keep those type away.
The only issue with cam regrinds is the thickness of the harden skin. As long as we don't penitrate it, we're golden. I know my last post was a "spooky tale", but I wanted to demonstrate why we need to do as much research as possible to avoid those types of nightmares. But the re-grind is our last option. I think we're going to be able to get new cams made, so that's where I'm focusing on.
Bottom line for new cams,
They aren't going to be cheap,
This isn't going to happen over night,
and
If we can't get something that is worth the $$$$.....then it's down to a regrind of the cams (SVT) for regrind. I will be "donating" a set of SVT cams for the first set if that is the case. If that goes badly, then I loose out on a perfectly good set of SVT cams and this GB ends with shame.
So, before I do anymore with this GB I would need to know who is still serious enough to follow through.
I'm doing this one way or another, and other duratec owners that are looking to do the same would make it more likely to happen (for new cams to be built).
I know I'm not the only one here that wants them, so if there is any chance to get them......step up to the plate and help me make it happen.
I guess I got my answer
depending on the price and time they would be done if possible i am interested.
I am..... depending on the price
Cams aren't really in my how-to knowledge base, and the price is a little too steep for me
. Thus, I cannot consider myself a serious "in." Though, I'd love to be in on this...
Possible persuasion point: Would these help low end or high end power?
See, I think cams would help NA2.5'ers in the upper rpm region, so that's why I went from TOTALLY serious, to interested depending on price, because it's a big decision since changing cams limits your future FI projects. But you can't say, since NO one knows how these cams will be done, if we'll need a reflash PCM to compensate for the difference, etc.
bottom line for me, and this may sound ignorant: if I can get up to 20hp from this, I would do it and forget about FI'ing my car, because an NA engine is 200X more durable/reliable (considering number of moving parts, heat, etc.) than an FI any day.
Alright Nanner man, let us know. . .I like your night out, BTW. . .
20 hp would be amazing, and considering the fact that I've spent 1000+ on exhaust components alone, cams could be a big bang for the buck!
I don't have any plans for FI. If the engine goes kaput, I'd go 3.0.
OK, let's do it this way-
I'll keep at it and if the option of new cams arises, then I'll setup a new thread for a GB on them. If it comes down to a re-grind, I'll use my 2nd set of SVT cams as the first sacrifice. Under the idea a sucsessful re-grind, I would setup a GB for that as well. I would also have both of my sets done and probably would have a set for sell.
In either case, the new cams would affect the whole power band from my understanding. So there wouldn't be a upper or lower end power increase, it would be a modified power band overall. If it's a re-grind, it'd be basicly a mod'd SVT cam and if they were going in a well ported head matched with a DH SVT UIM or a 3L UIM, custom chip, ect, you could easil ysee 15-25 hp increase, if not more when teamed up with the rest of the upgrades to run the cams correctly in your engine. Keep in mind you should be pulling the engine when installing these to do it right.
If we get new cams, they'd be cut to our choosing! DemonSVT has expressed interest in helping with the cam profiles in either case. This is where your NA 3L Hybrid would be running with the S/C'd 2.5L & 3L's, but with more TQ. There is heat treatment and cam gears we have to worry about also.....
But I'm working all the details out and am running different avenues to get something done. I think we have enough to get something done so I'll just keep you guys posted on any new news as I have been. I'll try to get some estimates on the prices A.S.A.P .
Im still interested, if these come out around the time im ready to put the 3L in this summer and if I have enough cash left.
Just got my sick 3L Hybrid built, lots of head work and I bet the motor will definately love some hotter cams so depending on wether I'll sell the Tour or not by then, I to will/may be interested in this. I'm sure 20hp on my motor shouldn't be a problem.
Remember that the reason why the cams will cost a lot is:
1) Low run numbers. They can't make as many cams for us and sell them as they can for a Honda B18C, for example. Or a 350 shortblock.
2) Amount of cams: We have a dual overhead-cam motor. That means two cams for each bank. Two banks. That's =4= cams. A Chevy 350 has 1 cam. A DOHC Honda motor has 2 cams.
I would so drop the cash if I had it.
Yes, very well said!! Thanks for the adding that!
I've never dealt with reground cams before so (not to sound stupid) what kind of changes can be made ie. lift,duration,overlap? How can you increase lift by taking metal off?
You can only change lift. The lobe is re-ground and it's "profile" is altered, allowing a + or - in lift, depending on what you want. With us, we could use a tad bit more lift. How much we can get is unknown at this time as I have not ventured in that direction yet. We have to get them CNC machined for various reasons, and if it comes down to this option then, so be it.
I am still confident we'll get a new cam
I'm intersested. I've also sent in a request sheet to Comp Cams.
hey swazo, just wondering what happened to this group buy...
Still working on it and playing email tag
Any news? Just keepin an eye on this to see how things develop.
-Matt
Prices are just too high for it to be practicle so as of now I give up trying to get new cams produced. As for the regrind goes, I am a tad busy with a few other projects to devote anymore time to getting some done. So for now, SVT cams will have to do.........
http://www.fastcougar.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=83&threadid=74392
There you guys go, since I couldn't follow through Chknhwk pointed me towards this and I thought I'd let you all know where to go for your custom made billet duratec cams with the specs of your choice all for about $1050 if 5 people get them and 950 if 10 get them. Maybe even less if more jump on in.......let's find out
i want new cams i got a reg. duratec
Originally posted by contour se sport:
i want new cams i got a reg. duratec
Well, you gots money? Point those pointy shoes over the fastcougar, brotha!! I'd LOVE to see some cam work done for our cars - you'd be my personal hero!
God I wish I had the money right now...
