P.R.T. optimized TB interest check...

Josh,
Will the TBs be optimized by hand or machine?

I'm down for this. I can actually send you mine ahead of time since I have a spare.

Originally posted by GTO Pete:
Josh,
Will the TBs be optimized by hand or machine?

Hand. However i will be using a micrometer to ensure consistant thickness throughout the remaining shaft portion. I can see a machine being usefull and benificial timewise for plaining the side of the shaft flat; by hand working it however i can chamfer the edged of the shaft as well for smoother flow. I put about 2-3 hours time into each TB.

Some people have requested multiple Tb discounts as well as bypassing the core charges by sending their mounts. I'll sit down tonight when i post pics and set up a broken out pricing system for those that are interested.

Very interested! Price break down and pics would be super.

Originally posted by Schnad:

Do you have the ability to powerdercoat body color?

Not sure how i overlooked this....Yes, i have the abilitly to powdercoat, however there is a hitch. My powdercoater is an hours drive away....so turnaround is affected as i only drop off parts for coating once a week. All TB's will at least have a bead blasted exterior for a brand new apearance.

I DO NOT intend to powdercoat TB's with core exchanges, if you want a powdercoated TB, i would require your TB to service...benifit of this, no hassle with core charges, downside-your car is out of comission for approx. 2 weeks.

Thats fine with me. Can you get the t-red body color though?

What is the benefits of having the TB optimized. Thanks

Interested. I would like to see some pics. Do you do the whole nine yards with countersinking the screws and whatnot?
I'll probably get one or both of your mounts at the same time.

interested

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Do you do the whole nine yards with countersinking the screws and whatnot?

Yes....Do you expect anything less from PRT?

Originally posted by cinder:
What is the benefits of having the TB optimized. Thanks

Link

I'm looking for someone to sell me a stock or optimised TB. I'm in the UK so it will need shipping over the pond.

Anyone?

You have a PM

Interested. Would like to know more info like how much the core charge will be in addition to the cost. And will the TB you use for opt. be an SVT one if I have a SVT core? (same thing for SE's)?

-Joe

How long of a turnaround would this be? i.e. how long will my car be down?
-tropictour

Originally posted by Pole120:

Originally posted by GTO Pete:
Josh,
Will the TBs be optimized by hand or machine?

Hand. However i will be using a micrometer to ensure consistant thickness throughout the remaining shaft portion. I can see a machine being usefull and benificial timewise for plaining the side of the shaft flat; by hand working it however i can chamfer the edged of the shaft as well for smoother flow. I put about 2-3 hours time into each TB.

Not to knock what you are doing at all, you have done a fantastic job with your motor mounts but...
hand vs. machine...there is no comparison in the quality of the job when it is done properly on the correct machines. I'm not talking hand drill or dremel...I'm talking modifying the shaft in a milling machine, tapering the intake and output of the TB in a lathe and countersinking the TB plate in a drill press with the proper 100 deg. counter sink not a drill bit like some others have done. Also replacing the screws with 100 deg. flathead S/S screws and cutting them down flush with the back side of the TB shaft. Plus if you are spending 2-3 hours on each TB that is way too much time. Set up on the proper machines can be done easily in half that time with far superior quality work.

You can't produce this kind of results by hand on the TB housing...the shaft isn't as hard and can be done by hand if nessasary as long as the plate is countersunk on a drill rpess with a 100 deg. countersink. This SVT TB was smothed and opend up on a lathe...now it was an experiment and is over bored a LOT to repair a botched attempt by another member to create a 65mm TB out of a SVT TB...it is now a 67mm after the repair and machining (see the small circular area around the TB shaft). I have not finished the new shaft and TB plate yet but you can see the results of using a lathe to do the machining, this can not be matched by hand no matter how much time you spend.

Here is a optimized 65mm Mustang TB (bottom, shaft not done yet in pic) vs. a stock SVT TB for a comparison of optimized vs. no-optimized (housing only of course).

-Scott

def interested just need all the info posted

Originally posted by scottd60:
Not to knock what you are doing at all, you have done a fantastic job with your motor mounts but...
hand vs. machine...there is no comparison in the quality of the job when it is done properly on the correct machines. I'm not talking hand drill or dremel...I'm talking modifying the shaft in a milling machine, tapering the intake and output of the TB in a lathe and countersinking the TB plate in a drill press with the proper 100 deg. counter sink not a drill bit like some others have done. Also replacing the screws with 100 deg. flathead S/S screws and cutting them down flush with the back side of the TB shaft. Plus if you are spending 2-3 hours on each TB that is way too much time. Set up on the proper machines can be done easily in half that time with far superior quality work.

You can't produce this kind of results by hand on the TB housing...the shaft isn't as hard and can be done by hand if nessasary as long as the plate is countersunk on a drill rpess with a 100 deg. countersink. This SVT TB was smothed and opend up on a lathe...now it was an experiment and is over bored a LOT to repair a botched attempt by another member to create a 65mm TB out of a SVT TB...it is now a 67mm after the repair and machining (see the small circular area around the TB shaft). I have not finished the new shaft and TB plate yet but you can see the results of using a lathe to do the machining, this can not be matched by hand no matter how much time you spend.

I concur. I have examined one of Scott's optimized throttle bodies and there is absolutely no comparison between hand and machine optimization. Scott has told me he will be offering this service in the near future. Josh, no intent to hijack your thread or anything - I'm sure your TBs will be a good offer to CEGers.

Originally posted by scottd60:
I'm not talking hand drill or dremel...I'm talking modifying the shaft in a milling machine, tapering the intake and output of the TB in a lathe and countersinking the TB plate in a drill press with the proper 100 deg. counter sink not a drill bit like some others have done. Also replacing the screws with 100 deg. flathead S/S screws and cutting them down flush with the back side of the TB shaft. Plus if you are spending 2-3 hours on each TB that is way too much time. Set up on the proper machines can be done easily in half that time with far superior quality work.

The only thing you're doing any different than I am is the boring of the TB inlet and outlet....I use propper machinery I.E. Drill press and correct countersink bits and screws(90 degree in my case)....If i had a lathe i'ld be doing the extra steps you are...i'm a bit limited in that department as i'm just getting started, or trying to at least.

Originally posted by scottd60:
Set up on the proper machines can be done easily in half that time with far superior quality work.

Far superior quality? Have you seen my work as of yet to state something like that? Sorry but i put a lot of time into my work so that the quality is as good as it is. That statement was taken as a bit of a slap in the face, though i'm sure you didn't intend it that way....I'll have pic up tomorrow night...

I understand you're not trying to Knock what i'm doing...but in essence isn't that exactly what you've done?

Damn, you guys all suck. I'm lost on what to do now.

For those that were wondering i've added SE flow data to this thread

Originally posted by GTO Pete:

Josh, no intent to hijack your thread or anything - I'm sure your TBs will be a good offer to CEGers.

If you had no intent to hijack maybe you should have just kept your fingers off the keyboard then.

Originally posted by scottd60:

My way is better but i'm too lazy to offer my own group buy so I'll screw someone else's over while I wait.quote]

Sure.. machines can offer much easier repeatability but with skill and dilligence that pole has his will flow with the best of them. If he wants to spend 2-3 hours a peice and he thinks that's profitable to him then make your own group buy for cheaper and then everyone will buy yours... until then get your TB's flowed and prove they are better or keep your mouth shut.

Less pretty pictures and more tech.

Originally posted by WRX Barge:
...until then get your TB's flowed and prove they are better or keep your mouth shut.

Unnecessary.

Originally posted by WRX Barge:
If you had no intent to hijack maybe you should have just kept your fingers off the keyboard then.

Scott was chiming in, I offered my opinion on an alternative that was posted. Two CEGers offering their services. I'm certain both Josh and Scott will offer top notch products.

I'll bow out of Josh's thread. Apologies to Josh if he found my posts disrespectful in any way.

I'll post pics tomorrow and people can then decide if machine vs hand are comparable...untill then i'm done in here.

Like i said I know Scott's intention was not to bash my product, however the words he chose did just that, i'm a bit disapointed in it is all...

Scott, the bore and plate size of your SVT TB's have not been altered correct? still stock 60mm?

The fact of the matter is that i'm certain pole's work will be vastly superior to that which is obtainable by most CEG'ers doing it themselves, and thus well worth the asking price.

Matt

Originally posted by volfan98:
The fact of the matter is that i'm certain pole's work will be vastly superior to that which is obtainable by most CEG'ers doing it themselves, and thus well worth the asking price.

Matt

I know there is a ton of people on here that have Pole's motor mounts and they can vouch for him, but i've seen the TB product. Top notch by all means. You WILL NOT be disappointed.

Originally posted by Pole120:
I'll post pics tomorrow and people can then decide if machine vs hand are comparable...untill then i'm done in here.

Like i said I know Scott's intention was not to bash my product, however the words he chose did just that, i'm a bit disapointed in it is all...

Scott, the bore and plate size of your SVT TB's have not been altered correct? still stock 60mm?

Josh,

I apologize if my wording was taken as a bash...sometimes things are taken or come out differently then they are meant. I'm sure your work will be quite good and like said much better then the typical CEG'er. My point was only to make that machining the bore vs. hand sanding/polishing it is nearly impossible to get the same results and very time consuming nothing more. With the minimal results you get from this mod it really won't make that much of a difference on a mildly modded car so really isn't that big of a deal.

I would recommend going to 100 deg countersink/flathead screws. You will like the results much better...less invasive to the TB shaft and better hold on the thin .062" TB plate

No, I don't change the bore & plate diameterâ�?�¦I have been toying with it but it is way more work then it's worth. Bradness discovered that you can open up a 60mm SVT to about 62mm safely without breaking into the bearing wells (why the one in the pic is now a 67mm paper weight

). Then you need to make a new pate and you have to get the plate just right or they will not idle correctlyâ�?�¦its lots of work in my opinion you are better off using a mustang 65mm TB if you need bigger. The optimized 60mm with the improved flow numbers is plenty for the majority.

Sorry again didn't mean any disrespectâ�?�¦your service and workmanship is a valued asset her on CEG.

Keep up the good work,
-Scott

Originally posted by scottd60:
I would recommend going to 100 deg countersink/flathead screws. You will like the results much better...less invasive to the TB shaft and better hold on the thin .062" TB plate

I've noticed this, and was looking into a 90degree 30%reduced height fastener, but can only locate them in standard thread, no metric.

In addition i was only able to locate standard thread for 100 degree screws.

So in both cases(90 or 100 degree) i'm stuck with what i've got at the moment untill i can locate a supplier for either of the two options, it works well but i am on the lookout for another method.

Originally posted by WRX Barge:

Originally posted by GTO Pete:

Josh, no intent to hijack your thread or anything - I'm sure your TBs will be a good offer to CEGers.

If you had no intent to hijack maybe you should have just kept your fingers off the keyboard then.

Sure.. machines can offer much easier repeatability but with skill and dilligence that pole has his will flow with the best of them. If he wants to spend 2-3 hours a peice and he thinks that's profitable to him then make your own group buy for cheaper and then everyone will buy yours... until then get your TB's flowed and prove they are better or keep your mouth shut.

Less pretty pictures and more tech.

As Pete said very unnecessary

You basically need to take you own adviceâ�?�¦I don't think you will be using any of these on you WRX so why are you even in this post other then to run your mouth

What product, advice, service or help have you provided CEG ? I don't need to prove anything to you as I don't need your business, those that know me know the quality of my work. I have done/been part of several valuable and successful group buys and have been providing CEG with both mounting plates for the Steeda Tri/Ax short shifters for the last couple of years. I have been doing machine work for the past 27 years so I do know a little about what I am saying and doing. I respect Josh a great deal for what he does and I'm sure he knows that if not before, he does now. So mind you own business unless you have something beneficial to offer TROLL

end of my rant
-Scott

Originally posted by Pole120:

Originally posted by scottd60:
I would recommend going to 100 deg countersink/flathead screws. You will like the results much better...less invasive to the TB shaft and better hold on the thin .062" TB plate

I've noticed this, and was looking into a 90degree 30%reduced height fastener, but can only locate them in standard thread, no metric.

In addition i was only able to locate standard thread for 100 degree screws.

So in both cases(90 or 100 degree) i'm stuck with what i've got at the moment untill i can locate a supplier for either of the two options, it works well but i am on the lookout for another method.

Can you help me out with locating these fasteners?

Originally posted by Pole120:

Originally posted by scottd60:
I would recommend going to 100 deg countersink/flathead screws. You will like the results much better...less invasive to the TB shaft and better hold on the thin .062" TB plate

I've noticed this, and was looking into a 90degree 30%reduced height fastener, but can only locate them in standard thread, no metric.

In addition i was only able to locate standard thread for 100 degree screws.

So in both cases(90 or 100 degree) i'm stuck with what i've got at the moment untill i can locate a supplier for either of the two options, it works well but i am on the lookout for another method.

open the holes up for the next standard thread (10-32) with a #21 drill (.059) and tap...problem solved. The screw head is ~0.040 bigger in diameter then the originals screws but with the 100 deg. flat head it is not a problem. Or...you could stay on the smaller side (8-32) and and drill the holes out for locking helicoils instead. Both will work just fine and are easily obtained at most hardeware suppliers.

-Scott

Originally posted by Pole120:
Just gauging interest on TB optimizing.

That does legitimately open the door on comments...

Pics posted

Originally posted by scottd60:
... those that know me know the quality of my work.

I, for one, vow for Scott's skill, knowledge and quality work. He is very sincere, and I really think his intension was to provide a discussion from the technical point of view.

Originally posted by SVT3391:

Originally posted by scottd60:
... those that know me know the quality of my work.

I, for one, vow for Scott's skill, knowledge and quality work.

The same can be and has been said for me....can we drop this now and move on?

Originally posted by Pole120:

Originally posted by SVT3391:

Originally posted by scottd60:
... those that know me know the quality of my work.

I, for one, vow for Scott's skill, knowledge and quality work.

The same can be and has been said for me....can we drop this now and move on?

Thanks Rick but I agree with Josh...

nice work on the shaft Josh...make sure to use RED Loctite on those screws. Prety much the same look I get with mine..I wouldn't go any lower on the shaft, that is plenty.

-Scott

Originally posted by Pole120:

Originally posted by SVT3391:

Originally posted by scottd60:
... those that know me know the quality of my work.

I, for one, vow for Scott's skill, knowledge and quality work.

The same can be and has been said for me....can we drop this now and move on?

I don't think quality is problem between the 2 of you guys.
I understand where scott is coming from about chucking up the TB in lathe and tapering out the bores. It will be much more concentric and smooth. Nothing against Josh if he could do it that way he'd be doing it too.

Josh,

This is definitely not toward you. I said that in response to Barge's not-so-kind comments. If my post made you feel that I was saying only Scott does quality work but not you, I apologize, because that was never the intension. I've seen your TB's pics and they are great.

Rick

Originally posted by SVT3391:

Originally posted by scottd60:

Originally posted by WRX Barge:

Originally posted by GTO Pete:

Josh, no intent to hijack your thread or anything - I'm sure your TBs will be a good offer to CEGers.

If you had no intent to hijack maybe you should have just kept your fingers off the keyboard then.

... until then get your TB's flowed and prove they are better or keep your mouth shut.

Less pretty pictures and more tech.

... those that know me know the quality of my work.

-Scott

I, for one, vow for Scott's skill, knowledge and quality work.

I'd be down for this, on my SE TB.

Anyone got a SVT tb they want to sell me instead of shipping mine across the pond?

Originally posted by PEWTNERST24:
Anyone got a SVT tb they want to sell me instead of shipping mine across the pond?

Hello there.

I have one.

GB thread with pics and info coming this week...i currently have only 2 cores, so most definitly peoples best be tis going to be sending their TB to be optimized.

~Josh