Thought I would throw this out again in case anyone is waiting for them. The price has gone up, but still very reasonable. 2.5 or 3.0 with any compression you would like.
5 sets of pistons/wrist pins = $640
I don't have the price on the rings just yet. I'm guessing they will be somewhere between $80 and $130 a set.
Chris, would they be able to do a set of 3L pistons that would take a full oval port 3L up to say 11-11.5:1? If so how would they be able to guarantee no interference with the valves?
BTW, I'm just starting my hunt for stuff now as I've decied to keep the SVT since there is nothing else out there in my price range that I want so don't count me in as of yet
Yes they can bump up the compression by adding to the dome that is already there on the stock size, possibly making it a flat top. Takes a lot of math to figure out what the final compression would be so I would have to ask. It would make a sweet nitrous set up though if you had the octane to use it.
I talked to Diamond again since last post and got the price down a bit. $606 for a set of 6 with wrist pins. No word on rings as of yet.
Originally posted by Keyser:
I talked to Diamond again since last post and got the price down a bit. $606 for a set of 6 with wrist pins. No word on rings as of yet.
That is cheap! 
-tropictour
Make sure to mark me/Eternal One down for a set.
Rick
Damn... trying not to spend any more $$$ on the car right now, but that sounds good. I would be interested in a set for the 2.5
Originally posted by Keyser:
Yes they can bump up the compression by adding to the dome that is already there on the stock size, possibly making it a flat top. Takes a lot of math to figure out what the final compression would be so I would have to ask. It would make a sweet nitrous set up though if you had the octane to use it.
Let me know what they say. Right now I'm just waiting on some prices for porting my 3L heads so that's my primary concern. Once I know more about that I'll be able to give you a firm answer
Originally posted by Buckshot77:
Make sure to mark me/Eternal One down for a set.
Rick
What compression would you like? I'm assuming about 9.5:1 on a S/C set up. With ported combustion chambers that would be like 9.2-3ish :1.
Put me down for one set of 2.5 litre pistons with a 10.5:1 compression ratio (if 10.5:1 will work with 91 octane in the Las Vegas heat!). I would like two sets, but I donâ??t dare suggest that to my wife right now. I will be building this engine with a set of Jesseâ??s ported & polished heads with 3.0 litre valves & ST220 springs so that will need to be taken into consideration when adjusting the compression ratio on the pistons.
Not that Iâ??m suggesting that $606 isnâ??t already a great price; but if more than 5 sets of pistons were sold in this group buy would the price get any better? It might make the difference between me buying one set or two.
Originally posted by NVSVT:
Put me down for one set of 2.5 litre pistons with a 10.5:1 compression ratio (if 10.5:1 will work with 91 octane in the Las Vegas heat!). I would like two sets, but I donâ??t dare suggest that to my wife right now. I will be building this engine with a set of Jesseâ??s ported & polished heads with 3.0 litre valves & ST220 springs so that will need to be taken into consideration when adjusting the compression ratio on the pistons.
Not that Iâ??m suggesting that $606 isnâ??t already a great price; but if more than 5 sets of pistons were sold in this group buy would the price get any better? It might make the difference between me buying one set or two.
if your doing taht much work, might as well do a 3L swap also
Originally posted by Russell-3L:
If you're doing that much work, might as well do a 3L swap also
I actually thought about doing a 3.0 litre engine swap over 5-years ago, but I have slowly talked myself out of it since then. Part of the reason is that the SVT Contour has enough trouble hooking-up the front wheels with the torque made by a mildly modified 2.5 litre engine. And from all that I have read the biggest advantage of the 3.0 litre engine is the additional torque so Iâ??m sure that all of the new found torque would just cost me more in tires! But the biggest reason is that I would want to build a 3.0/SVT hybrid and they are more complicated to build than simply modifying a 2.5 litre. If I lived near a CEG member (or two) that had done a hybrid (and he was willing to help me) I might try it, but everyone with some experience and know-how live far, far away from here (in the middle of nowhere).
Originally posted by NVSVT:
Put me down for one set of 2.5 litre pistons with a 10.5:1 compression ratio (if 10.5:1 will work with 91 octane in the Las Vegas heat!). I would like two sets, but I donâ??t dare suggest that to my wife right now. I will be building this engine with a set of Jesseâ??s ported & polished heads with 3.0 litre valves & ST220 springs so that will need to be taken into consideration when adjusting the compression ratio on the pistons.
Not that Iâ??m suggesting that $606 isnâ??t already a great price; but if more than 5 sets of pistons were sold in this group buy would the price get any better? It might make the difference between me buying one set or two.
Any reason you are going for forged pistons on an N/A 2.5 setup? Don't think it is all that necessary, and just increasing the CR by .5 won't give much power at all, maybe a 2% increase, if that! The only need to go with a higher CR is if you have a set of Cams that would benefit. With the cost of 2 sets of pistons and P&P heads + springs, you are 1/3 of the way to a Turbo kit... something to consider.
Originally posted by mamisano:
Any reason you are going for forged pistons on an N/A 2.5 setup?
Longevity. I am already replacing one Duratec at 92,000 + miles because of poor reliability; I donâ??t want to have to do it again for a long while.
Originally posted by mamisano:
Don't think it is all that necessary, and just increasing the CR by .5 won't give much power at all, maybe a 2% increase, if that!
So how high can I go on (91 octane) pump gas in 120 degree heat? 11.5:1? 12.0:1? Anyone know for sure? Iâ??d like to go as high as possible, but I donâ??t want to have pre-detonation problems either. Keyser, your from Arizona, right? What is possible there?
Originally posted by mamisano:
With the cost of 2 sets of pistons and P&P heads + springs, you are 1/3 of the way to a Turbo kit... something to consider.
I have two Contours; one set of pistons for each engine (if I can afford it). The P & P heads would be for my SVT (the toy) along with the â??for sureâ? set of pistons. The SE (with an SVT engine transplant) would get the second set of pistons. As for the turbo; I donâ??t like the way a turbo(supercharged) engineâ??s power delivery comes on (when it rains I especially hate it in my Jetta GLI) and Iâ??m too old and Iâ??ve seen too many supercharged engines fail over the years (that longevity thing again).
Originally posted by NVSVT:
and Iâ??m too old and Iâ??ve seen too many supercharged engines fail over the years (that longevity thing again).
What I meant to say is, I'm old enough to have seen many, many (exhaust gas and crankshaft driven) supercharged engines fail over the years (that longevity thing again).
Oh man, maybe I am "too old" because every year durability becomes more and more important to me.
Ok here we go:
1.Eternal One 3L 9.5:1
2.NVSVT 2.5L 10.5:1
3.Stilov? 9.0:1
4.
5.
Just to let you guys know I was informed of an increase in price after the new year.
Also NVSVT if you can get your car to Phoenix there is almost nothing we can't do to your contour(s). It's only about 5 hours from Vegas.
Chris, I'd love too, but in no way shape or form did I expect the GB to be now!!! At christmas? I just bought my engine and I always spoil my wife (and now daughter) at Christmas. I am afraid I will have to wait.
1.Eternal One 3L 9.5:1
2.NVSVT 2.5L 10.5:1
3.
4.
5.
Any idea when the deadline for this will be. Checkinbg finances to see if a set of 11.5:1 pistons will be in the build for my 3L
Maybe someone can post this over on NECO as well to see if we can get a bit more interest as well
Chris let me see what I can do. Tell me though, what is this "modification" to ross pistons that must be done? What is the deadline on this group buy anyway?
Originally posted by Keyser:
1.Eternal One 3L 9.5:1
2.NVSVT 2.5L 11.0:1
3.
4.
5.
Jesse said I should be able to go 11.0:1
Well the price goes up in 05 so I would say by the end of the month.
I think the Ross piston deal had to have the skirt shaved or something. I'm not quite sure.
Originally posted by Keyser:
Well the price goes up in 05 so I would say by the end of the month.
Let me do some creative financing and I'll get back to you asap.
Originally posted by stilov:
Chris let me see what I can do. Tell me though, what is this "modification" to ross pistons that must be done? What is the deadline on this group buy anyway?
Theres no modification to Ross pistons, at least not anymore. I beleive that was just the first set. 
Originally posted by Keyser:
Well the price goes up in 05 so I would say by the end of the month.
It is already the 9th; is this thing going to happen?
Add me to the list!
3.0L 1mm overbore 9.5:1 CR
Originally posted by Keyser:
Ok here we go:
1.Eternal One 3L 9.5:1
2.NVSVT 2.5L 10.5:1
3.FastCougar 9.5:1 .040 over
4.
5.
Just to let you guys know I was informed of an increase in price after the new year.
Also NVSVT if you can get your car to Phoenix there is almost nothing we can't do to your contour(s). It's only about 5 hours from Vegas.
Make that .5mm overbore ... I was looking at the wrong information
guys these are worth it
mine have worked well in Houston summers at 16psi, no problems. . .no piston slap, nothing. . .I originally got these pistons because the GB needed one extra person, had no plans of turbo charging, but lemme tell ya, well worth it. . .
Pretend you are trying to explain this to a Grade 8 student taking shop class:
1. What are the advantages of these pistons &
2. What is the re/re labour involved?
thanks
Dan
1. What are the advantages of these pistons
for forced induction, they are much stronger than stock and can handle alot more boost. even for nitrous they can handle alot more than stock. not to mention you can lower compression for a turbo or supercharger, or raise it for n/a or nitrous
2. What is the re/re labour involved?
removing the engine would be the easiest way by far. gotta take the timing chains off, cams out, heads off, then take the rods and pistons out. install new pistons to rod, and put rod/piston back in car. new rod bearings needed along with new rod bolts and new head bolts. basically very expensive
What is the highest compression ratio that SVT cams and valve unshrouding can use? 12:1? 12.5:1? Say with 93 octane and some crazy ECU prog (ADC)
12:1 with a great tune ... I wouldn't go any higher on 93/94 gas.
Come on people ... this is a great deal that I don't want to loose out on!
Originally posted by fastcougar:
Come on people ... this is a great deal that I don't want to loose out on!
I couldn't agree more! If you were thinking about doing an engine re-build next year (like I was) you need to get in on this NOW or you will hate yourself when you end up paying full price in a couple of months!
Add me to the list. 3L, 12:1 comp ratio. What is the price on rings?
Originally posted by Chris Hightower:
Add me to the list. 3L, 12:1 comp ratio. What is the price on rings?
People are running around untuned on 11.2:1 ... that's why I say with a GREAT tune, 12:1 should be possible. I personally wouldn't gove over 11.5:1 just to be on the safe side. If I went 12:1, I would use 94 with octane booster just to play it safe
Originally posted by fastcougar:
Originally posted by Chris Hightower:
Add me to the list. 3L, 12:1 comp ratio. What is the price on rings?
People are running around untuned on 11.2:1 ... that's why I say with a GREAT tune, 12:1 should be possible. I personally wouldn't gove over 11.5:1 just to be on the safe side. If I went 12:1, I would use 94 with octane booster just to play it safe
I have faith that Chris can pump out a SCT chip that can make it all work with 93/94 octane that is available in Dallas. Hell, I can get 99 octane at certain places.
SWEET! ... only one more person ... come on lucky number 5! We only have 14 days until the end of the year and prices will go up. Let's make this happen!!!
Current List:
1.Eternal One 3L 9.5:1
2.NVSVT 2.5L 10.5:1
3.FastCougar 3L 9.5:1 .5mm over (.020")
4.ChrisHightower 3L 12:1
5.???
Originally posted by fastcougar:
SWEET! ... only one more person ... come on lucky number 5! We only have 14 days until the end of the year and prices will go up. Let's make this happen!!!
Current List:
1.Eternal One 3L 9.5:1
2.NVSVT 2.5L 10.5:1
3.FastCougar 3L 9.5:1 .5mm over (.020")
4.ChrisHightower 3L 12:1
5.???
Two more would be great, to get the price down lower. I wonder if 7 would lower it more?
Originally posted by Chris Hightower:
What is the highest compression ratio that SVT cams and valve unshrouding can use? 12:1? 12.5:1? Say with 93 octane and some crazy ECU prog (ADC)
Originally posted by fastcougar:
12:1 with a great tune ... I wouldn't go any higher on 93/94 gas.
Not even remotely close!!!
Even the hybrids can't really run optimum timing on most pump gas.
I would say 10.5 to maybe 11 to 1 on good 94 octane can run best timing. Weather permitting. (SVT cooling system, 160 t-stat, OAT with WW or Evans coolant, et cetera are all a must either way!)
I could get the 10.3 CR 2.5L to best timing on 92 octane plus booster (real octane not the POS over the counter stuff or about 93.5 pump) or just straight 92 octane in cold weather. In hot weather I had to back the timing off a little even with octane booster.
Compression is not going to gain you much power though.
Figure maybe 1% over a 9.8-10.1 CR engine. That alone is a waste of money to just buy forged pistons & need engine balancing for!
Even if you went 12 to 1 and ran 104-110 octane race fuel you are only going to see a 4 maybe 5% (8-12 crank) increase in numbers. Good luck paying for race fuel every fill up!
High CR, pump gas, and optimum timing do not mix very well.
The only reason to go high compression would be to compliment a set of cams. Going with a larger cam lowers cylinder pressures because of the increased overlap... thus usually you increase the CR to compensate for the larger cam.
Just increasing CR will NOT give you a noticable gain in performance. Usually, with JUST a CR change, expect 1% gain for every point you increase the CR. That will probably be negated by the amount of timing you would have to pull out to avoid detonation.
So, why is everyone so gung-ho on these pistons?? Just to add them to your sig?
If you have a set of custom cams, or are going FI then I can see the reasoning, but for a stock cammed, NA 2.5 or 3.0 it is a waste of money.
If your going to run that high of a comp ration and can get some wild cams, than you will need those cams specs before ordering. Possible even a block to measure piston to valve as that high if a comp plus cams will have some wild valve relives and dome design. But again thats if you have wild cams.
How much are rings?? WHat is the price with the 5 people...maybe I can pull some money out my a$$
Numbers I came up with were going from 10:1-12:1 will only net about a 4.7% increase, and like others pointed out that may not be optimal for gains opposed to running 10:1 and more timing
I found
this to be a decent read.
Personally I'm taking the money I was going to drop on pistons and the other parts needed to install them and I'm goning to drop it on a nice set of TCE brakes in the spring since I have a nasty habit of melting my brake piston seals on the track.
I talked to my contact at Diamond and he agreed to do the buy with only 4 sets if I can get them.
This is a list of info that I need to fill out for him. I misplaced all the info I had and currently don't have time to search for it. So if someone (Demon
) would be kind enough to email it to me it would be appreciated.
# of Cyl. = 6
Bore 2.5/3.0 = 3.25/3.5
Stroke = 3.xx
Rod Len. = 5.433 center to center
Gskt Bore
Comp. Gskt
Block Deck Ht.
Top ring down
Chamb. Vol. = 46cc?
Dome (-) Dish (+)
Piston / deck
So what is the rpice for the 4 sets? And any idea on rings yet?
I hope I can pay for the pistons now and give Diamond the particulars on them after the first of the year. I need to find out what the head volume will be after porting and polishing and Jesse (kinger) just sent me a message saying he will be off line until the 2nd of January.
Price will stay the same as 5 sets. Rings will be somewhere between $75 and $130 depending on if they are a shelf item or have to be cut. Being that all so far have a different idea of what they want it's hard to look up part numbers.
prettty much I need you to tell me want I want...9:1, 3L, with 3L oval heads...no porting of the chamber. stock rods, stock bore, and stock stroke...although, with rings and the 646...it seems I may just have to wait...I have scraped up almost all I can...we'll see.
$626 + rings. That includes the 3% increase for the new year.
hmm...is there anyway we can still get this done this year? If I pay next week, does that make 4 or matter?
I can pay anytime, if that matters ... I was ready when I intially replied to this thread a few weeks back. It's still a great deal with the 3% increase, but money saved is money saved!
Originally posted by stilov:
...is there any way we can still get this done this year?
Ditto! I wasn't trying to say we should wait until next year to pay for the pistons; in fact I'm ready to pay for the pistons and rings now. I'll just have to wait until next year to give Diamond my specifications.
Okay I can pay now, everyone else that can pay now...list em.
1. Stilov
2. Fastcougar
3. NVSVT
4. ?
5. ?
Originally posted by stilov:
Okay I can pay now, everyone else that can pay now...list em.
1. Stilov
2. Fastcougar
3. NVSVT
4. Buckshot
5. ?
So what are the instructions??? Is this going to happen?? Who do we call?? When do we get a definite price??
Patience Taylor. I'm working on it. You will be contacting Keith this week. I will be contacting Diamond tomorrow.
-Chris
sorry...didn't mean to seem impatient...
oh crap...it still depends on the price whether r not I can get them...what is regular price?
My purchase is on hold right now. I think I can swing an extra $18 or so later on next year. So, take me off the list for this GB.
Unfotunately...I forgot about a couple bills I put on hold for x-mas...I woul dbe able to make a deposit, but not pay in full...sorry...let me know if a deposit is an option
Ok here is the deal. $690 including rings + $15 to ship. I almost have all the dimensions I need so we are about good to go. You guys can either call me if you have my number or send me a PM and I'll call you back to set up payment. Thanks.
Taylor I'll work with you.
Ok I've talked to everyone and we are about to proceed. I'll give more info as I get it. If anyone else wants in NOW is the time to do it.
I would like to get a set, but when will the money be needed? As I don't have the money at the moment because of christmas and all.
How soon could you get it? Not sure how late I can submit an order but I can ask.
2 weeks at the least....but 3 would be great. If not don't worry bout it. Thanks for asking!
You can have your 2 weeks. They agreed to extend the pricing out for us.
Are you going to make it in 2 weeks feelgood?
Ya get my payment? Just wanna make sure I don't have a check for close to a G floating around out there someplace. :P
E1
keep us updated (me especially
) on when they will be or were ordered.
I called chris yesterday and ordered mine. He said he was filling out the order when I called. Just thought I would let you guys know.
Does anyone know when we will be getting these? Just wondered.
End of February would be my guess.