Engine runs too cold for unique application

LMFAO I have to see a pic.. By chance you live in a trailerpark HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAA

Originally posted by HThomas:

I thought cam timing could help here, but there are apparently no adjustable gears for the V6. So I am currently working on building some adjustable gears using the old ones and some spacer plates, but I ran out of 6061-T6 aluminum plate stock during the SN95 351W rebuild.

Any other suggestions? Would you recommend stand alone engine management, since it worked so well in The Fast and the Furious? Or should I use a less-encompassing approach like the TwEEcer or Apex? How about swapping in a SuperChip?

That's obviously a joke, but was the rest of the post? It seems feasible, but i'm skeptical. i want to see pics.

The McGyver in me would say you need to hanrness the exhaust - a turbo water intercooler should do the trick. Pump the pool water through it and run your exhaust through the air side. Instead of being a cooler it should make a very good heater.

On top of that use the alternator - at a steady 100 amp draw or so you'd be getting 1200 W to run either another heater, or some lighting, or with a power inverter you could easily power a little TV/DVD

Trailer trash living at its finest!!!

By chance...would the author of this thread be a Republican? Sounds like something a Republican would employ as a solution? Your last name is not really Bush is it?

Nahh, everyone knows that Republicans are rich and can afford a new hot tub heater.

I'd guess "southern democrat"

I can't believe nobody has posted the OBVIOUS solution. Buy the streetflight turbo kit but forgo the intercooler. Turbos can make very large amounts of heat and it would of course be very cost effective to put a $5k turbo kit on a wrecked contour (wrecked from a drunken night going in reverse down a country road, that's what we do in the south). You can find the streetflight website at www.streetflight.com/wreckedcontourswithturbosaregreathottubheaters

Originally posted by abwamo:
... i can't believe any of this, and i can't believe that you guys are falling for this.

You're right, every Contour owner knows if you want to heat a hot tub you use the Zetec engine since it always runs hot.

HThomas:
Welcome onboard.
Your first post is certainly a unique one.

I'd suggest plugging in the engine block heater but that would be a potential electrocution hazard for hot tub users, unless an isolating transformer was installed in your AC supply. An alternate and safer method would be plugging the engine block heater into an inverter operating from the car's battery. The latter method will electrically load the car alternator having the additional benefit of increasing load on engine thereby producing more waste heat.

Quote:

Agreed, it will never work well. The engine is not running under load, therefore despite the RPM, it is not burning much fuel just spinning.

No, allow me to elucidate. My car is running under load. I made up a piggyback pulley for my dual mode damper (DMD, as you veterans call it) that is essentially a power takeoff. I have a lot of implements in shop and the back 40 that need a power source, and the John Deere 1400 Series loader backhoe's power takeoff is on the blink, so the Contour is pressed into yet another use: driving a hydraulic pump. I run a Gates Poly-V belt drive off the Duratec's modified FEAD to a Parker-Hannefin inPhorm 7900 hydraulic pump which, combined with the proper manifold block and accumulator, do a great job of supplying liquid power to much of my shop.

So in that regard, as long as I'm running the lathe, tablesaw, etc in my shop and hence using the hydraulic pump, the engine is running under load. Maybe not enough load though.

I saw a used Mustang MD250 inertia and eddy current chassis dyno on auction once at a liquidation sale, so maybe I can get one of those plumbed in to supply some real load to the engine. As an added bonus, all that hot water those dynos produce has to go somewhere - into my hot tub - which would be like killing 2 birds with one stone. But that's on the long term horizon.

Short term, I still have the not-enough-heat problem. I guess I will have to try loading the alternator, as Horseybug suggested. I still wonder, though, if moving to a stand alone system like the TEC-II would help here.

I wish I could post pictures but I'm kinda new at this computer thing. In terms of computer savvy-ness, I'm a n00bie; I kinda took the late 90's off because I thought that whole Internet thing would blow over. Maybe I can get my step-son's girlfriend to help me here (she seems pretty good with her AOL account).

Quote:

How do you hit a Deer fast enough in reverse to total a "98?

Oh man, that was a weird night.

-Harden Thomas

You must NOT live in California? I imagine their pollution laws wouldn't allow this?

Paul

Originally posted by HThomas:
I kinda took the late 90's off because I thought that whole Internet thing would blow over.

That's the best quote in here!

Originally posted by horseydug:

You're right, every Contour owner knows if you want to heat a hot tub you use the Zetec engine since it always runs hot.

I can't say which part of this post is the funniest, but I will vote that this is by far the funniest post I have read on these boards ever! This one even tops that post from a long time ago when the guys Contour had the habit of passing cars and revving really loud, or something like that.

Now this is entertainment!!

Unfortunately I can't help on the water temperature issue, but surely you've mated the exhaust to a turbine pump for massaging water circulation. I'm fascinated to know more about this aspect of the hot tub; any chance you could give us a few hints???

Just submerge the entire contour in the hot tub. That way, you capture all of the heat that is created. You may need a couple of snorkels for air exchange.

HT,

If you were to do a search you would find a simmilar issue.

Actually, if this real, you may want to call the Car Talk guys on NPR. I heard a caller one time ask them how he could run a 12V current through his whole car so that he could keep his goats from climbing on it. He situation was different than your though, because he drove his car.

I think we all need to see a picture of your setup to help us verfiy that it is indeed real.

By chace, do you have the tire hanging on the fence next to the hottub for a life perserver. Safety first you know.

Originally posted by F111D F:
You must NOT live in California? I imagine their pollution laws wouldn't allow this?

Paul

No he doesn't live in California!!!! I'm thinking maybe rural Louisiana......don't let them gaters get in the hot tub!
I would never do anything that degrading to my vehicle.

It can't be that relaxing sitting in the hot tub with all the power tools running in the background.

I agree, this is one of the most entertaining threads in a while.

Quote:

Unfortunately I can't help on the water temperature issue, but surely you've mated the exhaust to a turbine pump for massaging water circulation.

No, that is considerably more complex than what I have done. In my case, I am just using the standard Duratec water pump to circulate the water (which is heated by the engine) out into the hot tub.

I get the feeling that somehow incorporating a turbo's heat generation capability might be the next step in producing more heat. I will have to contact this guy called Street Flight to get more info. Does anyone have his AOL account number?

Or, I guess I could try looking on the web site Speed Demon (is that speeddemon.com?); they seem to get a lot of play around here, and are never lacking when it comes to offering up something bombastic as unsolicited advice.

The real bummer is that I don't have any turbos to spare for this project. The 351W rebuild and the Econoline done made them all used up; no extras left now. Maybe I should just get a used Vortech s/c, since they seem to have fallen out of favor for street use. I can get around the jackshaft durability problem quite easily since I can mount the compressor on the FEAD side of the engine, as the hood is not needed.

Plus, I just read on How Stuff Works that a turbocharger is really a supercharger, so by some commutative property I think that means a supercharger is also a turbocharger, which means that the advice that some gave to use a turbo can also be satisfied with a supercharger. Right?

Regardless, I really need to get after this problem. A warm tub is really no substitute for a hot tub. There's just nothing like relaxing with some seriously hot bubbles with the Tony Lama's parked up on the old Wolmanized decking . Warm water just doesn't do it.

Any other suggestions?

-Harden Thomas

My troll-o-meter is in the red.

Originally posted by spgoode:
My troll-o-meter is in the red.

Hell yeah!

Originally posted by HThomas:

Any other suggestions?

Do you ever see any water heaters in the ditch on the side of the road...?

Your idea is fascinating, Harden. I love this kind of original thinking and reach-for-the-sky vision, especially when it relies on the Contour powertrain, known by all of us as one of the best ever conceived.

Actually, your story reminded me of the lake in Upper Canada that my family used to visit when I was a kid. There was an old mechanic geezer who used a WWII jeep for power generation on his farm. There were several cottages that tapped off the farm supply, including ours. He used it mostly for irrigation and septic handling. Unfortunately I was too young to recall his exact setup, but I remember the lights dimming frequently in the cottage. Ha ha. Strangly enough, I've always been a tinkerer, and it's possible that I've drawn subliminal inspiration from this guy's jeep setup back in the 50's.

Regarding your specific setup, I think you are on the right track. Heat management is critical for a hot-tub application, so I agree with your concerns. Thermodynamics need not be a roadblock in this case. Some thoughts come to mind.

(1) you should try to extract all the heat from the engine and either plumb it back in ahead of the combustion process or direct it to the hot tub itself. You could use a air-oil intercooler (I once fashioned one myself out of an old room air conditioner) to extract combustion heat out of the exhaust and feed it back into the engine oil. Be careful there to maintain at least 20gpm on your oil pump for adequate flow level, and I would only use a high-grade synthetic or super high mileage Class 8 truck oil to prevent any sludge development in case there is any microfluid transfer within the intercooler.

(2) Second, I would recommend that you augment the alternater drag load as suggested earlier in the thread. Your PTO setup is good, but sounds too variable in it's power consumtion. Though it's possible that a free revving engine will self regulate to a consistent temperature, startup gradients can be a problem when the demand picks back up. Have you thought about setting up a slave-drive double alternator config? Might work for the transient power/voltage spikes from your shop. The other idea might be a wet-brake alternator. They're a bit pricey of course, and not readily available at Autozone, but I have been working on the final design of a do-it-yourself kit that utilizes household 3-phase electric motors, like those found in fans or large microwave ovens, in a custom machined aluminum case filled with ordinary glycol. Yes, I know... pitting is often a concern for glycol-class fluids with aluminum, but I found a coating of ordinary spray paint on the fluid passages usually provides adequate pitting control. I've had good success in bench tests using flat grey Krylon, which also adds a nice titanium look that's so popular these days. A zinc casting might be better for overall microstructure behavior, but the casting shop that does my work is reluctant to deal w/ more exotic zinc material. You can contact me directly at bud_miller_01@yahoo.com and I'll send you details. I think this is a perfect application, Harden.

(3) My final comment is so simple I can't believe nobody else mentioned it. Why don't you just take advantage of secondary heat effects by bubbling the exhaust around the perimeter of the hot tub? Of course you have to keep it away from where you are breathing. I'm thinking you could fashion an annular diffuser with a normal bathroom fan air handler to extract the CO. Might be an ideal way boost engine-to-water heat transfer while also muffling the engine. No flames guys! You've got to extract the fumes, and you'll be fine.

Don't mess around with engine management. I don't know about you, but I don't have an electronical PhD, so it's usually a dead end to dig into that kind of crap! I just stick to my main areas of expertise: thermodyamics, metallurgy, plumbing.
Feel free to email me w/ comments or questions. Again, great topic!

Regards,
Bud Miller

Wassssup, this be Buzz. I own a 96 Mystique with dubs and a fatty pipe, I also have a lease on a 1999 SVT, but it is runing out next month. I'm into racing that car can drift with the best of 'em.
Believe it or not, I have run into a similar situation, my friend has a 76 Ford F150 Explorer which he used to power a carwash! The heat exchanger he ran was a basic 10 tube, 25 row, water to water exchanger, very efficient. Although all the ideas seem intelligent, your best bet is to thin the mixture.
The fuel management system from fast and furious will work, if you have 10 grand to spare. Personally, I would fab up a new fuel rail, a 2.5mm diameter will fit your application well. It will reducet the flow and starve your engine of gas.
Also, a direct inject nitrous system will work wonders. You'll have to use forged pistons, but I think it is the most practical for your app.
I am working out the bugs now, but I also am trying to add a simple resister to the on board computer it basically will contolr the fuel map to run a more lean mizture, this also works great for drag racing in colder conditions. I can get the wiring diagram if anyone is interested.
Well, I have to get back designing Fords.
Buzz

This is one of the funniest threads I've ever read. Even if it's a goof.

Originally posted by Buzz Green:
also am trying to add a simple resister to the on board computer it basically will contolr the fuel map to run a more lean mizture

1)Unplug the oxygen sensors

2)Introduce a vacuum leak

Bud,

Thank you so much for taking time out of your assumedly busy schedule to commiserate. You have brought up some good points, none of which are lost on the bystanders.

Anyway, the long and short of it is that this little experiment came to an abrupt and fiery end last night.

It came to me last night that all that exhaust energy dumping out the tail pipe was the answer to my question - why not harness it?

So I plumbed in an old exhaust header cutout from my junked Impala drag car so I could redirect the exhaust from the underbody to a more energy-recyclatory spot - that's right - to the Baja SporTub. This involved running about 2 feet of left over 3" stainless mandrel bent tubing from www.burnsstainless.com. Then I had to use about another 15 feet of gutter downspout to actually finish the run to the hot tub.

Anyway, the exhaust was bypassed in the right direction and then run into a submerged heat exchanger I pilfered from my neighbor's Earnhardt-memorial-mobile, a 1978 Winnebago. This allowed the exhaust to dump its heat directly into the tub without actually being submerged. I didn't want to submerge the pipe because I know the stainless pipe I got (SS409) will surface rust a bit. I guess next time I should just get SS304 or 18Cr pipe instead.

Then disaster struck. Apparently the hot pipe was too close to the neoprene tub cover, which lit on fire. Luckily I saw the flickering of the flames when SpeedTV's NASCAR pit crew show ended and jumped out before the fire got real bad.

Anyway, the tub burst from the heat and dumped its entire contents all over the deck and septic field. So now I have other problems to deal with. What a bummer.

I guess I will try to log back on when I get the mess cleaned up. On the positive side, I still have a working Contour engine. I hear it is essentially a Porsche engine, so I figure at least I can try to sell it on eBay to all those 911 drivers with blown motors.

Argh....

-Harden Thomas

LOL @ all this!!!!!!

man he you have one vivid imagination, whether this is true or not...its still vivid for thinkin it up.

I'll tell you what. These are some good ideas. The only things I have a problem with are the following.

-- Are you sure you haven't modded the engine, I never thought you could run that much off a V-belt. Sounds like you are squeezing a little more than 200 ponies out of that bad boy.
-- What type of plugs are you running? Splitfires? That may be what is getting you over the 200 mark.

Keep it real homies.

Buzz

!!omg we needed a joke like this for a while. Keep it coming

you should make own huge lawn mower out of that

Originally posted by mbSVT:
LOL @ all this!!!!!!

ONE OF MY BUDDIES (WE REFER TO HIM AS MCGUYVER) CAME CAMPING WITH US A COUPLE MONTHS AGO. WELL HE BROUGHT ALONG ALL THE SUPPLIES TO MAKE A TEMPORARY HOT TUB. A UTILITY TRAILER (ABOUT 6'X6'X3'), A GAS POWERED BILGE-PUMP, SOME COPPER TUBING MADE INTO A SCREEN (ABOUT 2'X2'), AND A COUPLE OF TARPS. DRAPE THE TARPS ON THE INSIDE OF THE TRAILER TO RETAIN THE WATER, THE LAY THE COPPER TUBING ON THE GROUND UNDER YOUR FIRE(BEFORE YOU START THE FIRE...), THEN GET YOUR FIRE GOIN AND PUMP SOME RIVER/LAKE WATER INTO THE TRAILER. ONCE IT'S FULL HOOK THE PUMP TO THE COPPER TUBING, SO IT RECIRCULATES FROM THE TRAILER TO THE FIRE AND BACK TO THE TRAILER. AFTER 4 HOURS WE HAD TO STOP THE PUMP AND GET OUT CAUSE IT WAS TOO HOT(OR WERE WE TOO DRUNK). VOILA... A HOT TUB FOR CAMPING.

Do it!