Need high rpms until car will shift

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Came home parked the car, everythings fine. An hour later went do do some driving and immediatly the car wouldn't shift correctly. I have to take it up to 3500 rpms then let off the gas for it to go into second. It also doesn't seem to want to go into overdrive on the highway. Had one O/D light flashing episode but none since. Rained recently and had to navigate some large puddles. Oil level is fine. Any ideas? Thanks, John

Are you saying engine oil level is fine or tranny fluid?

Did you check the tranny while the engine was running or off? An ATX needs to be checked with the engine running.
If the tranny is low, that will give you shifting problems.

Yes, I check the tranny oil while the engine was hot and running. John

This could be caused by several things, so we will rule them out one by one.

When was the last time you changed your ATF? If you have changed it recently, have you changed the fluid on a regular schedule?

Changed ATF 3 weeks ago. 20,000 miles before then.

Well then I think we are looking at one of two things that might be causeing this...

Shift Solenoids, located on the solenoid block on the valve body

OR

MLPS, Manual Lever Position Sensor... AKA Range Sensor.

You can safely change the range sensor yourself and it's not at all overly involved. On the V6, you will have to remove a few things out of the way to get to it, but other then that it's no problem. You can get the sensor from Bill Jenkins for about $21, plus shipping. You can find it here.

As far as replacing the sensor, you would place the car in drive. Off of course! You will see on the sensor that there's two marks that line up on top of the sensor. You then unbolt the sensor and install the new one. Make sure that you line the marks, located on top of the sensor, and bolt it down. Once everything is secure, you move your shifter to the park position and back to drive. Recheck the sensor to make sure the marks are still lineing up. If so, you are good to go. This is sort of failsafe, so don't worry.

As for the shift solenoids... This assembly will run you about $160. It also requires that you remove the valve body cover. Which on a V6 means that you will have to remove such things as the battery, battery tray, things like that. This one is a little more involve, since you will be digging around on valve body. so if that make you uncomfortable, then I suggest you take it to a shop.

I will say this as well... There could also be a problem with the pistons that shift solenoid control. They could be stuck or leaking inside the valve body. If this turns out to the be the case, you will have to replace the valve body. We have had a lot of luck from a company, that I cannot think of right now, that sells remain'd valve bodys for a fair price. Plus, they are all rebuilt with Sonnax Master Rebuild kit, which addresses a ton of known weakpoints in the CD4E. I will try to hunt down that information and post it.

Thanks. From the search info, I was leaning toward the MLPS also. It just so happens that I have the original MLPS that we changed out two years ago. It turned out to be something else so I think the sensor is still good. I'll do it this afternoon. Thanks for the putting it in drive tip. I'll post the results. John

Changed MLPS and still have the same problem. I removed the battery during that process so I'm sure any codes that were stored are now erased. What I'm wondering is, do I need to drive around and see if I can force a cel or blinking O/D light so there will be a code for the mechanic to read tomorrow? Thanks a lot, John

Originally posted by jmatzick:
What I'm wondering is, do I need to drive around and see if I can force a cel or blinking O/D light so there will be a code for the mechanic to read tomorrow? Thanks a lot, John

Not really because the codes that come up when the overdrive light blinks cannot be read durning the standard KOEO tests. These codes have to actually be recorded in real time. In other words, you will have to have an active scanner hooked up to the car that will monitor all inputs and outputs. Then, when a problem arises the scanner will record something like 15 seconds of data. That is the only way you will find out what the code is.

You wouldn't happen to have a copy of Alex Pepper's OBD-II software and a laptop would ya? If so, you would be in business. Only other option would be to take it to a tranny shop and let them find it.

Sorry mate!

Originally posted by unisys12:

Originally posted by jmatzick:
What I'm wondering is, do I need to drive around and see if I can force a cel or blinking O/D light so there will be a code for the mechanic to read tomorrow? Thanks a lot, John

Not really because the codes that come up when the overdrive light blinks cannot be read durning the standard KOEO tests. These codes have to actually be recorded in real time. In other words, you will have to have an active scanner hooked up to the car that will monitor all inputs and outputs. Then, when a problem arises the scanner will record something like 15 seconds of data. That is the only way you will find out what the code is.

You wouldn't happen to have a copy of Alex Pepper's OBD-II software and a laptop would ya? If so, you would be in business. Only other option would be to take it to a tranny shop and let them find it.

Sorry mate!

Someone said that before and I have said before it is [censored].

I get O/D off light sometimes in the morning I get code PO731 1st gear shift ratio incorrect.

The light wasnt blinking when I had it scanned and the guy that did it used an OBD II.

Yes, there will be a code other person is wrong. I sometimes have O/D off light in morning, my light wasnt on when I had it scanned.

The car is in the shop right now. Will there still be a code stored even though I had the battery out for a hour after the one episode I had with the O/D light flashing? John

Originally posted by HITMANinMI:
Yes, there will be a code other person is wrong. I sometimes have O/D off light in morning, my light wasnt on when I had it scanned.

Originally posted by HITMANinMI:
Someone said that before and I have said before it is [censored].

I get O/D off light sometimes in the morning I get code PO731 1st gear shift ratio incorrect.

The light wasnt blinking when I had it scanned and the guy that did it used an OBD II.

Looking back at my response, I will say now that I should have said, "...the codes that come up when the overdrive light blinks cannot always be read durning the standard KOEO tests." So, with all due respect I correct myself there.

But hang on... I am going to do some reading real quick!

Alright! To clear this up....

By definition...
Diagnostic Trouble Code -
An alpha/numeric identifier for a fault condition identified by the OBD system, and accessed through the vehicle data-stream.
Diagnostic Trouble Codes are commonly described as "Hard" or "SOFT". "Hard" codes are those which currently exist on the vehicle. "Soft" codes are those which have occurred on the vehicle, but are not occurring at the present time. "Soft" codes are sometimes known as "Historic Codes".

Now with that little bit of info under our belt! There are times that our PCM will decided if it should place a fault into memory or not.

Ex. P0420 - This fault has to actually happen two times within a given drive cycle for the PCM to place it into memory. Only then will the CEL light up, showing that a code is stored.

Another Ex. Overheating Transmission - This is a fault that most likely will not set a fault code. That is unless your TFT actually takes a nose dive! Once the PCM detects the fault, it allows another program to take over all transmission operations called a "Fail Safe".

Line pressure is another situation withing the transmission, that is monitored, but a CEL will not illuminate when these conditions occur. Only the O/D will flash.

Also, you do not scan a car's PCM with OBD-II. OBD-II is a industry standard that all vehicle manufactors must comply with, for monitoring powertrain control systems.

The way our PCM's think and make a decision is very complex. No, I do not fully understand it all. But I do know enough about the system to know when to tell someone to just go ahead and take their car to the shop and when they might have a fighting chance at fixing it themselves.

Delayed shifting can also be caused by the TPS, MAF, or vacuum leaks.

Presumably you would notice some lag in engine response.

A vacuum leak skews the MAF response which is used in conjunction with the TPS signal to calculate engine load. Increased engine load delays shifting to higher RPMs.

Update. Called tranny mechanic and he said something about bad disks? I'm down here in Mexico so I'm not quite sure what else he said. Any idea what are these disk.? He quoted me 230 dollars labor. Thanks, John

i sometimes get a flashing O/D light when the tranny is very cold on a below freezing day

Originally posted by jmatzick:
Update. Called tranny mechanic and he said something about bad disks? I'm down here in Mexico so I'm not quite sure what else he said. Any idea what are these disk.? He quoted me 230 dollars labor. Thanks, John

He is talking about you clutch disks. Most likely the clutch material has worn away for whatever reason. If he can do it for $230 labor, that sounds pretty good. Most shops charge that just to pull the tranny and tear into it.

Keep up updated as to what the outcome is and any updates along the way!

Originally posted by Russell-3L:
i sometimes get a flashing O/D light when the tranny is very cold on a below freezing day

I'll see if I can find anything about that. I will let ya know when I find something.

Clutch? But its an automatic.

Originally posted by jmatzick:
Clutch? But its an automatic.

Yes, an automatic has clutches and bands to connect and disconnect the power in the drivetrain so that the gears can be changed.

It is just - automatic!

Thanks Roger. John

FYI

The series of steel disks & friction disks/plates is also known as a CLUTCH PACK. If your mechanic ever throws that at you. I think there are three of these clutch packs in the CD4E transmission.

Yes I went and checked last night and he said that they were going to installed the whole pack of stuff. Total bill will be around 900 bucks. I think this will round me up to about $4,500 that I've spent on repairs in the 2 years that I've ownwd this car. It only had 30,000 miles on it when I bought it. Now its got 59,000. I really enjoyed driving this car when it ran correctly but I'm selling it after this.

After 10 days in the shop, I finally got my car back. Here are the repairs that were made
Master Kit- $340
Filter- $45
Oil- $31
Turbine- $120
Bus Set?- $76
Bands- $46
Selenoid- $300
Shift Kit- $110
Labor $250
For a total of 1,318 dollars
So far the car runs like new.
Do I need to take it easy on the car? Like a break-in period? Thanks, John

Originally posted by jmatzick:

Do I need to take it easy on the car? Like a break-in period? Thanks, John

I have not read anything anywhere that actually states that you should "take it easy" or define's any sort of break in period for ATXs, but just to be safe...

I would. Just so you can feel everything out and what-not. If after about 3k or so and everything still feels solid, then I would give it few runs.

The main suggestion that I have for ya though...

Either get the tranny flushed every 15-20K or do a drain and fill at every other oil change. If you use Mobil 1 ATF, you would still need to change it this frequently, until you get a tranny cooler installed.

Don't get all down and out, because now you gotta go out and get something else for the car. You can get a good cooler for less then a hundred dollars and install it yourself in a few hours or less.

Once you get the cooler installed and you are fully running Mobil 1, you can then extend out your drain & fill's to every third oil change or so.

Congradulations on getting it fixed!