Transmission casing - CEG Archives

Originally posted by Abbo:
... They want $2800 for a remanufactured trans and $500 to replace oil pan gaskets and $195 to replace 02 sensors. ...
...

... I OK'd the work to begin this afternoon because I would imagine even further charges if I took the car back and it continued to leak and then I had to return it to them ...
...

...They had to remove what I believe he called the air compartment to see the puddle and the car cannot be running during this removal ...

As a general rule one should always get a 2nd opinion for that major an expense. As you said, you perhaps panicked and may have felt guilty. Seeking advice before giving the ok would have been the preferred course of action.

My suggestion: go to dealer first thing tomorrow and provided they haven't started the removal, cancel the work and get your car towed home or elsewhere.

The air compartment (or air box as it is usually called) is simply the air filter cover and accordion tube that feeds air to the throttle body, and yes, with precautions engine can be operated with it off.

Originally posted by jmatzick:
Why can't they weld the pinhole?

Even if welding not practical a short self-tapping screw can do little to increase the cost of the proposed remedy, i.e., total replacement. An experienced transmission specialist should be able to advise.

Quote:

Even if welding not practical a short self-tapping screw can do little to increase the cost of the proposed remedy

A screw. a little JB Weld epoxy, there are a myriad of possible solutions other than total replacement if it is an external leak. And what the heck do your O2 sensors have to do with your transmission? I would be real suspect of this dealership's service dept. If they tell you you are too late and they have allready started the work, have them show you!
99 times out of 100, they will not start any work untill most or all replacement parts are in hand. I doubt very much that they have a tranny in stock! Take it to a good local independant and/or look over real carefully yourself!

Battery vent? Transmission vent?

What????

I only mentioned the O2 sensors and the Oil pan as reference to price. There is no claim they are related to the trans.

The trans vent is attached to the clamp for the battery and when I bought a new battery it came with a short tube and an adapter to be used in some cases and I figured this was a case of new emission control so I hooked them together and then found out here that the vent connected to the battery clamp is a trans vent. The trans vent is ended within a few inches of the battery vent. The battery has a single vent that points right at the trans vent ann is very close.

I just aked about any other options to fix the hole and he said that a JB weld would not last on aluminum and offered no other solution. He admits they have never seen this before and we will get a better look once they have dropped the trans.

Originally posted by Abbo:
...we will get a better look once they have dropped the trans.

Hopefully they're not sightseeing at your expense.

The time for a dentist to say he can put a filling in the tooth is before extraction.

Originally posted by Abbo:
The trans vent is attached to the clamp for the battery and when I bought a new battery it came with a short tube and an adapter to be used in some cases and I figured this was a case of new emission control so I hooked them together and then found out here that the vent connected to the battery clamp is a trans vent. The trans vent is ended within a few inches of the battery vent. The battery has a single vent that points right at the trans vent ann is very close.

I'm totally lost (still) as to what that is. Is it for MTX or ATX cars only?

Tranny vent added for '98, atx for sure, can't say about mtx - don't have one.

I agree but at least I have let them know I want to see this hole. He said the trans guy could see a trail from one spot to where it puddles so I still am wondering if this couldn't simply be leftover from when the fluid may have blown out of the dipstick tube but they seem to be confident it is actually leaking from the case. I didn't ask but would assume they know enough to actually make sure the fluid level in the case is actually decreasing.
I am still kicking myself for making such a boneheaded connection but that trans vent tube location is terribly misleading especially coupled with the battery coming with a tube and adapter. It has been a comedy (tragic) of errors all the way back to how I "killed" the battery in the first place but I still find it incredulous that my boneheaded connection, that I removed after only 20 miles, has caused such a hole in the case and all this expense.
Thanks for all your comments because discussing it at least helps my blood pressure a little.

Posted by Abbo on 11/20 @ 5:19pm transferred from now deleted thread.

Originally posted by Abbo:
I went to look at the leak this afternoon and he pointed to a spot and said that is where there leak is but there was no hole to be seen. I asked if they could run the trans or at least turn the whole thing to see if it leaked and he said they couldn't at the dealership. They could only run the car for awhile and then remove the airbox and at that time see where it was pooling. I have pictures of the spot and will try to post them in the appropriate area if I can figure out how.
The area he pointed out could not have possibly "blown out" from my battery escapade but I suppose if it is a bad cast and a pinhole leak as he said then it may have been the final straw. It still seems like there would be very little loss of fluid considering the hole can't be seen and it at the top of the casing. He said a lot of fluid gets splashed there and lot was pooling. I can only see a serious leak if there is pressure there but I gave a feeling I have been hosed to the max and lied to my face. At least I have a number on the trans.

Has anyone ever heard of a serious leak at the top of a trans case made of aluminum?

I can e-mail the pictures to anyone interested because I am not sure I will be able to post them.

Pics of the Transmission

"Two are from a short distance. One is a closeup shot just
below the "compartment that had the supposed leak. One
is a close shot showing the pool of fluid in the
compartment just right of center and the best is the
real close shot where you can see the pool and the
supposed hole is just left of the pool where their is
a shiny sort of tinny look. He said the wall may have
been cast thin there but I still can't see there being
much if any of a leak there."

well its obvioulsy leaking, but i dont see where it could be leaking from. clean out that fluid and then repost pics.

He pointed out the shiny spot left of the fluid as where it is leaking from. It was interesting that he showed me fluid elsewhere under the car saying it was everywhere but there is only the one pool in the one compartment on the trans. I questioned him on many things except that because I figured they may have placed it there to mark the compartment or it was for affect but if they are lying then he would have made up something. The supposed hole is not covered by fluid and is not visible. That is why I would like to know if such a small hole if present could cause much of a leak at this spot on the case?
The other fishy thing is he didn't want to poke at the leak area because then the remanufacturer would not give a core return if the hole was evident and he said it would cost me $600 more.

rue, but i gotta wonder if he put that fluid there, it looks too coincedntal that the hole just happens to be THERE.

I am almost positive he put it there but I figure it was to mark which compartment the hole was supposedly in otherwise there would have been fluid in all the other compartments. Or he left the fluid in that compartment and cleaned all the others. When I showed up with a camera and took pictures and they still were insisting the leak existed in this spot I really had no where to go except ask if they were sure this wasn't just residual fluid and he said they were sure. The only defense I can think of for them is that there is no reason I can think of to go to this lengths when they could have simply said I blew a gasket or something like that and I wouldn't have been the least bit suspicious. Unless they spent so much time looking for a leak that didn't exist that they figured they had to go more extremes to recoup the time.

Quote:

The area he pointed out could not have possibly "blown out" from my battery escapade but I suppose if it is a bad cast and a pinhole leak as he said then it may have been the final straw.

I think you have mentioned a key point here!

�??bad casting�?� = MANUFACTURING DEFECT!

Manufacturing defect = NOT YOUR FAULT OR DOING!

Porosity problems and other such casting defects occur at the foundry during the manufacturing process .
If you are under warranty, this tranny failure should be a non-issue. Even if you are out of warranty, this should be an exceptional case as far as Ford is concerned. A casting defect of this nature is a MAJOR problem that your car has had since the day it was first made. You will probably have to press your case to Ford directly as the dealership most likely does not have the authority to make these kind of decisions/ exceptions.

I think you have a good shot at getting this covered because the core of the problem is...

YOUR TRANSMISSION CASING WAS MANUFACTURED WRONG!

It will probably be a long hard fight to get this covered, but don�??t give up!

Quote:

he said that a JB weld would not last on aluminum and offered no other solution.

Oh, BTW, JB Weld is specifically designed to adhere to aluminum as well as other ferrous and non-ferrous metals, so what the dealer told you is BS!

I have personally used JB Weld on everything from oil pans to water pumps and have NEVER had a failure. The key is proper surface preparation and cleanliness. While this stuff should not be used on critical or highly stressed assemblies such as suspension components or internal engine assemblies, it is flat amazing for repairing other stuff, especially castings

See for yourself:Click on "products", then the JB Weld picture.
Also click on "creative uses"

JB Weld home page

Thanks for the great information. It is out of warranty and I am sure they would have found an easier cheaper solution if it was under warranty.
I plan on contacting Ford and writing the service manager although I don't hold much hope.

i would just JB weld it and tell the dealer to suck your

I screwed up early on when I panicked and took it to the dealer before making sure I had an actual continuous leak. I ok'd the work because I trusted his word that there was no fix except replacing the case or the whole transmission. If I had seen this area before they dropped the trans I would have most certainly driven it out of there. It has been one bad decision after another in this case. It must have something to do with age because I am usually pretty good at figuring the best way to proceed in these matters. It all started on the day I was going to look under the car and see if I felt like tackling the oil pan gasket myself and it gets worse each day. Oh well!

whast the total damages to your wallet abbo?

My fur still bristles when I remember the dealer here telling me I needed a complete tranny rebuild ($2200). The problem had nothing to do with the transmission. I simply had cheap plug wires that were interferring with the electronics of the tranny. I had a good time going back and telling him. Well anyway, Sorry to hear about your situation. Hope you get some satisfaction somewhere along the line. John

Originally posted by Abbo:
I screwed up early on when I panicked and took it to the dealer before making sure I had an actual continuous leak. I ok'd the work because I trusted his word that there was no fix except replacing the case or the whole transmission. If I had seen this area before they dropped the trans I would have most certainly driven it out of there. It has been one bad decision after another in this case. It must have something to do with age because I am usually pretty good at figuring the best way to proceed in these matters. It all started on the day I was going to look under the car and see if I felt like tackling the oil pan gasket myself and it gets worse each day. Oh well!

I would not blame yourself so much over all this. Yeah sure, I have sat right here and said to myself, "That guy should have never ok'ed work that he had not checked out first.", but it is not always that simple. If you trusted this guy, which I feel you did or you would not have allowed the work to be done thus far as you said, how can you blame yourself. You don't work with the CD4E everyday, so you are not "up-to-speed" on it's in's and out's. So how could you know? You may also not be overly familiar with automatic transmissions at all. So how can you really totally blame yourself for all this.

Sure, there was some common warning signs that you should have caught. But you trusted the guy! Too bad our socity is built more on distrusting someone to protect yourself rather then trusting that person.

In short, don't beat yourself up so bad.

Quote:

I plan on contacting Ford and writing the service manager although I don't hold much hope.

Before you contact Ford, get a written report from the dealer as to the nature of the failure. Do your best to make sure that the "pin hole" is referred to as a "casting defect" or words to that effect. (Anything that will point out the fact that this was caused by a manufacturing problem.) You will then have your "amunition" to contact Ford and press your case that this was a defect your car has had since it was manufactured!

As I previously stated, this will not be easy, but if you keep pressing the matter with Ford, (not the dealer) you stand a chance of recovering if not all than at least the majority of you costs.

Good advice and I'll try but I have a feeling they will be reluctant due to the core charge issue.

The final bill came to $3874 but that included around $550 for unrelated oil pan gaskets and O2 sensors so the trans works with taxes came in around $3324. It still seems strange that there wasn't more fluid all over the trans but they were sure convincing and confident there was a leak in the case. I also noticed a charge for oil dye so I assume they were either smart enough to include that or they did actually use it to see the leak source. If I had thought of it when I was there trying to see the pinhole then I would have had them shine the black light, or whatever, on the fluid in the compartment to see the "glow" or whatever it indicates in the fluid. I simply didn't analyze my options very well as I made each mistake.