Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 IMRC problems - 10/16/03 02:01 PM
My IMRC is bad in the Contour... I am getting codes:
P1518=Intake Manifold Runner Control fault - Stuck Open.
P1519=Intake Manifold Runner Control Stuck Open.

I would assume this means that the actual electronics of the IMRC are okay??? I am hoping it's just the cable, but I don't know for sure. I do know that I opened up the box and the cable is broken.

I have seen tutorials before on replacing the whole thing, replacing just the cable, and a full parts list (gaskets and so on) for taking the upper and lower intake off.

Can someone please point me in the right direction. What do I need to get parts-wise in order to NOT have to run to the store/dealership in the middle of the work? Also, do you think the IMRC electronics are bad, or is it just the cable.

BTW, I have pinned the secondaries in the meantime, just tired of the cold drivability issues and the fart-smell on the freeway. Thanx ahead of time, I really appreciate it!

Edit: Subject only
From home page, FAQ > Modifications > HOWTO, or click here
That's it! I honestly don't know why I couldn't find that... I was looking in that section forever... too much coffee and too jittery this morning I guess.
Can someone help me out with this part please?

Originally posted by WA2FAST:
My IMRC is bad in the Contour... I am getting codes:
P1518=Intake Manifold Runner Control fault - Stuck Open.
P1519=Intake Manifold Runner Control Stuck Open.

I would assume this means that the actual electronics of the IMRC are okay??? I am hoping it's just the cable, but I don't know for sure. I do know that I opened up the box and the cable is broken.

Also, do you think the IMRC electronics are bad, or is it just the cable.

BTW, I have pinned the secondaries in the meantime, just tired of the cold drivability issues and the fart-smell on the freeway. Thanx ahead of time, I really appreciate it!





Also, I swear to god I hear detonation under hard accelleration... sounds like a high pitched grinding noise and is usually acompanied by black smoke out of the exhaust and then the car smells like ROTTEN EGGS afterwards... BAD.
Please tell me that this is going to go away when I replace my IMRC stuff.

Thanx guys!
Black smoke usually means you are running very rich. The rotten egg smell can occur if unburnt fuel makes it to out the exhaust valves and down to the cat(s). This is very likely since you're apparently running rich. Might want to check for an obstruction in the intake air path and clean up the MAF sensor. Possibly a gummed up injector?

Also, are you sure the secondaries are tied open and not tied closed? The last time my car smoked black, the ECU was fried and I was running in limp mode.
Yup, I am 100% sure that my secondaries are pinned open, just checked them... besides, the car is a TOTAL slug when they are closed, so I would know.

This is why I am totaly confused as far as what to think... the computer is obviously in some sort of open loop state since the secondaries aren't functioning... it is evident that it has no clue what is going on because before it reaches nomral operating temp, I have major drivability issues... the car bucks, the power comes on and off real abrubtly and so on... when it reaches normal operating temp, it clears up, but I hear that detonation sound when I am on the throttle more than moderate-wot. I get smoke, then it smells like a$$ for a while and I have to roll up my windows and turn the vents on to clear it out.

The things that are mind boggling to me are the fact that it is showing different signs for everything. What I mean is I hear detonation which says that it's lean, I get the egg smell which says it's rich (but I have heard the other way around too), and I am blowing smoke when the detonation type sound occurs which says I'm running rich, but what the hell am I supposed to think?

I am only getting the codes listed above and I am hoping to god that it all clears up when I replace the IMRC.

Any other suggestions? Please, I need help here.
Anyone? Please...
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: IMRC problems - 10/17/03 11:50 AM
Does anyone have any suggestions here? Are you all just frusterated because these questions have been asked before, or do you just now know? Trust me, I have searched for this stuff... I spent the better part of a day doing so and came up with nothing that was usefull, that is why I am posting these questions.
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: IMRC problems - 10/17/03 12:51 PM
Another question... does anyone know wjere I can find the article or tutorial on the 'do it yourself IMRC cable replacement'? I would like to look into that before I replace the whole expensive IMRC part itself. Thanx!
Posted By: horseydug_dup1 Re: IMRC problems - 10/17/03 12:53 PM
Perhaps reviewing your old thread on the IMRC cable would help! your old thread
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: IMRC problems - 10/17/03 01:59 PM
Thank you horseydug... it has been a long time since that thread... that must be why it didn't come up in my search. Anyway... great thread, answers a lot of questions, one that I have though is to Stevers or anyone else that may have pictures... Stevers, your links don't work anymore! Do you still have those pictures by chance and/or that tutorial? Does anyone else? Thanx!
Posted By: Stevers Re: IMRC problems - 10/17/03 02:17 PM
I got your PM. Give me a few to find out where the pictures went.
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: IMRC problems - 10/17/03 02:38 PM
Thanx a ton! I really appreciate it.
Posted By: Stevers Re: IMRC problems - 10/17/03 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Stevers:
It's probably just a fux0red cable like mine was. I rigged up a bicycle brake cable as a replacement, and it's worked perfectly ever since (1 month ago). No way in hell was I about to drop ~150 for a new box, when a cable only put me out $3.99.

In this picture, you can see the tip of the cable (it's a small silver tip shown next to the lower PCV feed hose) that I replaced with a bolt after feeding the new cable through, and using one of it's ends inside the box itself.

The way I made the end up was to drill a small hole in the head of a bolt, so that the other end came out right where the threads started. Then I pulled the cable through and used a washer+nut to crimp it tight.

Here is a shotty picture of said bolt. It took about 6 times before I had it crimped at the perfect length where it would open them fully, and allow the cable to return enough as to not trip the switch inside the box which tells if they are in an open or closed position.

The end I was speaking of which will be left on the new cable can be clearly seen in this picture on the right side. The cable frayed itself and then finally snapped about 3" past it's exit point from the IMRC box.

Words of caution do NOT remove the PCB from the IMRC box without the connector at the same time. These pieces are soldered together, and you'll seriously bollix it up if the pins snap on either. I scraped off as much adhesive as possible from the connector area and used some slip joint pliers to wiggle the connector out. Don't be afraid to mangle this connector a little bit, but not so much as that the wires will not fit back onto it.


Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: IMRC problems - 10/17/03 03:13 PM
Thank you so much for fixing those links Stevers. You didn't clean your LIM or anything? You haven't had any problems since then? Is there any good way of figuring out the correct tension now that you have done it and know what you are doing? Thanx ahead of time for the help again!
Posted By: Stevers Re: IMRC problems - 10/17/03 03:40 PM
Originally posted by WA2FAST:
Thank you so much for fixing those links Stevers. You didn't clean your LIM or anything? You haven't had any problems since then? Is there any good way of figuring out the correct tension now that you have done it and know what you are doing? Thanx ahead of time for the help again!




I haven't EVER cleaned my UIM/LIM. Trust me, I know how bad that is after 130k. The IMRC hasn't acted up, which somewhat surprised me. I had my doubts of the fix, but it's held up with no problem. The tension was the hardest part. It was a combination of adjusting the bolt many times to be sure the secondaries could fully open, yet still close contacts on the switch back in the box.
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: IMRC problems - 10/17/03 04:57 PM
So then adjusting the cable... easiest way would be to get it just tight enough to let it close the contacts, then fire it up and make sure they open all of the way? If I don't have to rip everything appart, then I won't, trust me! I'd rather replace 1 gasket than like 20. Is all I need a t-body gasket and that's it? Is that all you needed parts wise outside of the cable/bolt/nut/washer?
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: IMRC problems - 10/18/03 05:44 PM
Yeah, so I bought a brake cable, got together everything I needed, took the box appart, got the PCB board out and what do you know? The gears were jammed beause one of the retaining screws for one of the gears, somehow the head of it got snapped off. Now that IMRC box is worthless. I now need to go out and buy one.

I have 2 questions left... isnt' Bill Jenkins out of the contour parts scene... didn't someone take his place a while back? How do I contact that person?

Is it completely neccessary to take the whole intake off to do this, or can I just pull the t-body and get to everything I need to?
Posted By: Bill @ SigLM Re: IMRC problems - 10/18/03 11:09 PM
I am alive and kicking in beautiful Las Vegas.

Visit Parts Counter Express @ Signature L/M to look up and order your own parts.
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: IMRC problems - 10/19/03 04:01 PM
Lucky you! Thank you for the post. I will do so. Take care! Thanx again guys for the help.
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Update on IMRC problems - 10/27/03 12:18 PM
I got it taken care of this weekend. I wanted to thank all that helped me out with everything on this. It was a piece of cake... without pulling the upper intake, it took me a total of 30 minutes to completely change out the IMRC box/cable and get everything back together. I also got the DMD while I was ordering parts from Bill Jenkins and did that too... that was much more of a pain, but still very easy, just tedious as hell and it wasn't easy to get that oil ring out. Anyway, thanx to all, especially Bill for such good customer service and help with ordering the parts. I have a happy Contour again.
Posted By: Driver Re: Update on IMRC problems - 10/27/03 06:13 PM
I would have taken off the upper and lower intakes. If they were like mine, they are a mess and need to be cleaned. As dirty as mine were I believe the gunk in the secondaries leads to an early failure of the IMRC since it has to work harder to open the secondaries with all that gunk.
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: Update on IMRC problems - 10/27/03 07:27 PM
I'm sure they were and if I had more time to do it, I probibly would have, but it is not neccessary considering they were designed to work in the environment that they are in. I don't think it is the fact that they stick shut that is the problem... it's the fact that where the cable goes into the box isn't an even pull or something because the cable frays and breakes... that has nothing to do with the intake being gummed up.

I agree with you 100%, it is a good thing to clean all of that crap out, but it is definitely not neccessary, there are people on here that have been running over 20k+ miles since the new IMRC without cleaning the secondaries out. They are just going to get gummed up in no time anyway, so to me it really wasn't a big deal.

I did the IMRC replacement and everything works great now. No more egg stink from the exhaust, no more cold run issues, better gas milage, so on and so forth. I couldn't ask more for only spending 30 min on the car.
Posted By: Driver Re: Update on IMRC problems - 10/28/03 02:47 PM
Originally posted by WA2FAST:


I did the IMRC replacement and everything works great now. No more egg stink from the exhaust, no more cold run issues, better gas mileage, so on and so forth. I couldn't ask more for only spending 30 min on the car.




To my understanding, the IMRC only controls the secondaries that are only open when the engine is at high RPMs. How can the IMRC help with egg stink in the exhaust, cold run issues, and better gas mileage? The only thing you should have noticed is better performance above 4,000 RPM. I replaced my IMRC and the only improvement I got was much better performance above 4,000 RPM. If you drive much over 4000 RPM like I do, using the secondaries decreases your gas mileage over not using them. I was averaging 25 miles per gallon without the IMRC and now I am back down to 23 miles per gallon after I replaced my IMRC. Yes the performance is much better but I now use more gas when I push the car over 4000 RPMs. I am just not sure how you were able to get all those improvements by just replacing the IMRC.
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: Update on IMRC problems - 10/28/03 04:01 PM
Driver, yes and no. All that the IMRC does is open the secondaries that is correct... but at the same time, the CEL and improperly working engine component directly related to airflow totaly changes the way that the computer works. It is no longer in closed loop mode, it runs in open loop (default pre-set fuel tables... limp mode) due to the problem. This directly effects the a/f ratio (which the cats are VERY reliant on being in the proper range to operate normally - hence the egg smell) which directly effects the gas milage.

I pinned my secondaries open due to the SEVERE lack of performance. The car was a total slug when they were stuck shut and I couldn't live driving the car that way, so I pinned them open which made my idle a little iratic at times and gave me big time part throttle issues before the engine reached normal operating temp. Once the car reached normal operating temp, the idle and part throttle were fine (although I was still lacking on torque due to them being open and also the car being in open loop and the a/f being way off and robbing me of power down low), but up top was lean as hell and the car would detonate under heavy accelleration at times and would ALWAYS smell like rotten eggs after getting on it or while getting on the freeway. Me pinning the secondaries totaly threw gas milage out of the window because the car wasn't running right.

A dead sign of "bad cats" is that the car doesn't move down the road hardly at all due to being clogged and snuffing the engine. When your exhaust smells wrong one way or another (like rotten eggs or whatever), it simply means that something is not right with the a/f ratio for one reason or another... common problems are vacuum leak, something like a bad injector, so on. Things like that make your exhaust smell bad.

In my case, it happened to be the fact that I pinned my secondaries open and the computer wasn't compinsating the a/f ratio normally anymore and I had all of those problems. That is why it cured so many things for me.
Posted By: Driver Re: Update on IMRC problems - 10/28/03 06:26 PM
My secondaries were stuck closed. Had no check engine light, lost power at high RPMs, and got better gas mileage. At low RPMs, the car ran fine.
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: Update on IMRC problems - 10/28/03 07:01 PM
Same with mine, but the car was a total dog above 4k it was pointless and below 4k there is no power to begin with, so I had to do something. Till I replaced the IMRC, I pinned the secondaries open... there were some side effects, but worth it for having at least most of the power above 4k.

I am not sure why you didn't have a CEL saying that it wasn't working right, I sure did... not that I needed one telling me that something wasn't right, but I sure had one.
Posted By: techme Re: Update on IMRC problems - 06/13/04 04:12 AM
So sounds like it works like this:

- if you have secondary problem and your computer knows it you will get overall horrible performance / driveability due to default programming.

- if you have secondary problem and your computer does not know it then you will simply have less > 4k power and possibly better mileage depending on how you normally drive.
Posted By: WA2FAST_dup1 Re: Update on IMRC problems - 06/13/04 03:52 PM
Well... on the electronically controlled IMRC's, your computer knows when they don't work. You get substantially poorer performance weather you pin them or not when they fail, or even if you pin them open all of the time because the computer goes into default mode and doesn't compensate the fuel curve properly. I can't speak for the vacuum controlled IMRC's though, I just don't know.
Posted By: BrianW Re: IMRC problems - 10/16/04 01:43 PM
I know this thread is old, but does anyone have the pictures from this post around? Would be very helpful!

Originally posted by Tater Salad:
Originally posted by Stevers:
It's probably just a fux0red cable like mine was. I rigged up a bicycle brake cable as a replacement, and it's worked perfectly ever since (1 month ago). No way in hell was I about to drop ~150 for a new box, when a cable only put me out $3.99.

In this picture, you can see the tip of the cable (it's a small silver tip shown next to the lower PCV feed hose) that I replaced with a bolt after feeding the new cable through, and using one of it's ends inside the box itself.

The way I made the end up was to drill a small hole in the head of a bolt, so that the other end came out right where the threads started. Then I pulled the cable through and used a washer+nut to crimp it tight.

Here is a shotty picture of said bolt. It took about 6 times before I had it crimped at the perfect length where it would open them fully, and allow the cable to return enough as to not trip the switch inside the box which tells if they are in an open or closed position.

The end I was speaking of which will be left on the new cable can be clearly seen in this picture on the right side. The cable frayed itself and then finally snapped about 3" past it's exit point from the IMRC box.

Words of caution do NOT remove the PCB from the IMRC box without the connector at the same time. These pieces are soldered together, and you'll seriously bollix it up if the pins snap on either. I scraped off as much adhesive as possible from the connector area and used some slip joint pliers to wiggle the connector out. Don't be afraid to mangle this connector a little bit, but not so much as that the wires will not fit back onto it.





Posted By: machine Re: IMRC problems - 11/11/05 10:06 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's probably just a fux0red cable like mine was. I rigged up a bicycle brake cable as a replacement, and it's worked perfectly ever since (1 month ago). No way in hell was I about to drop ~150 for a new box, when a cable only put me out $3.99.

In this picture, you can see the tip of the cable (it's a small silver tip shown next to the lower PCV feed hose) that I replaced with a bolt after feeding the new cable through, and using one of it's ends inside the box itself.

The way I made the end up was to drill a small hole in the head of a bolt, so that the other end came out right where the threads started. Then I pulled the cable through and used a washer+nut to crimp it tight.

Here is a shotty picture of said bolt. It took about 6 times before I had it crimped at the perfect length where it would open them fully, and allow the cable to return enough as to not trip the switch inside the box which tells if they are in an open or closed position.

The end I was speaking of which will be left on the new cable can be clearly seen in this picture on the right side. The cable frayed itself and then finally snapped about 3" past it's exit point from the IMRC box.

Words of caution do NOT remove the PCB from the IMRC box without the connector at the same time. These pieces are soldered together, and you'll seriously bollix it up if the pins snap on either. I scraped off as much adhesive as possible from the connector area and used some slip joint pliers to wiggle the connector out. Don't be afraid to mangle this connector a little bit, but not so much as that the wires will not fit back onto it.


does anyone have pictures for this link
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