Brullen Y is $335 with a cat. I figure that much for the install & the shop will probably break a few bolts (his car is a 1996) & charge him for the extra labor.

I figure $800 plus any taxes. I am assuming that this will fly with the emissions standards in CA, but they are notorious tight-asses there.

If it won't fly, pick up a Y pipe setup from a bone yard, pass emissions with that, then buy the pipe you want. Still WAY cheaper.

Aftermarket Y-pipes do not contain the precats and will not resolve the original poster's dilema.

Precats are over $500 each and I have yet to find an aftermarket source for them for the Contour V-6.

My guess is that the codes the dealer pulled were P0420 and/or P0430. There is no sensor after the Y-pipe cat, so it is never checked by the engine's computer for efficiency of operation.

Bummer. Too bad that your car waited until your 8/80 warranty expired.

My suggestion would be to order the pre-cats/exhaust manifolds from a discount Ford parts distributor, then hire a local shop to replace them at the flate rate times.

You can then get an aftermarket y-pipe with its cat to complete the job. Total cost should be around 60% of your oringinal quote.

Steve

Okay, let me see if I understand the problem properly...

1) There are 2 precats (in the manifold), and 1 main cat (under the car), right?

2) Any/all/some of them could have failed, thus giving me the CEL and the code. Right? Since I don't feel any difference in the engine, it's probably NOT clogged or blocked...

3) There is no way to know WHICH ONE has failed other than "replace them all" or "trial and error". Right? If I know WHICH ONE has failed I can just replace that one...

4) I'm in California, so most of those "discount cats" don't apply to me. :P They all say "except Cal models". Any one know replacement cats in California?

5) One of the options is the REMOVE the 2 precats and rely on just the main cat. Is that right? And hope it'll pass the emissions test? If not, then replace the pre-cats? Or is that just going to double the labor since they have to open the manifold twice?

6) I searched oefordparts.com and they quoted about $160 for the main cat. That's reasonable. I can have someone else install it. But they don't list the pre-cats, just the exhaust manifolds. Is that like included inside or something?

OK, the dealership is either A) trying to rip you off, or B) completely incompetent.

The MAIN UNDERBODY CAT has no sensors monitoring it, so its failing CANNOT be detected by the computer and set of a Check Engine Light. Therefore, you have no evidence from the dealership that it needs to be replaced. DO NOT AUTHORIZE THEM TO REPLACE IT UNLESS THEY CAN GIVE YOU A GOOD REASON. And by good reason, I mean visual evidence of complete shell corrosion, a vacuum test showing it is clogged, or a failed smog sniffer test. And nothing else.

Next, the DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) the dealership got when they scanned the computer will tell them which exhaust manifold cat (aka precat) was detected to be failing, or both. DEMAND THAT THE DEALSHIP GIVE YOU THE DTC(s) THEY RECEIVED BEFORE AUTHORIZING WORK. Then post them here. We know what to do with them.

However, if you need to replace one or both, it WILL be costly both in parts and labor. I ended up getting a used one and doing it myself, and I struggled with the easy side (near the radiator). I don't think I would ever try the other one alone.

I repeat: THE MAIN CAT CANNOT BE MONITORED BY THE COMPUTER. THE TROUBLE CODE WILL INDICATE WHICH EXHAUST MANIFOLD CAT NEEDS TO BE REPLACED, OR BOTH.

My advice: Get the DTCs. Tell the dealership to clear the DTCs. If it (Check Engine Light) comes back, GO TO ANOTHER DEALER.

Can you tell (from all the caps and bold) that I hate dealerships that try to rip off unsuspecting customers?

Oh, and one more thing: Replacing the precats requires replacement of the entire maifold. The precat cannot be removed and replaced from the manifold. It can be bashed out, but once removed from the manifold a new one cannot be put back in.

Aha, it's becoming clearer!

I can see the two manifolds will cost me DEARLY. Together they are about $1100 at oefordparts.com However if I can get them separately (i.e. replace only the failed one) it should work fine, and give significant savings...

My normal service advisor wasn't there so I suspect this guy is messing with me. I'll go back soon and ask the guy I know to pull the codes for me and clear the existing CEL.

I already DECLINED the work for now. Worse comes to worse, I know a couple shops that should put them in for me... if I order the parts separately. I can speak passable Spanish so I can get things done at shops that are so cheap...

Thanks for the advise, folks... This car isn't even PAID FOR yet... so putting 3 grands' worth of repairs is simply OUT OF QUESTION for me. One grand, I may be able to afford...

Mine failed under the warranty twice. I figured why give them another chance and went to headers. I would think the price would be similar and you'd never fear clogging them up again. Of course if you aren't over the 80000miles I think they still have to warranty the parts regardless of wether it has been done before or not. Now I don't know if California is a state thet does the emmisions test with the vehicle warmed up, but if it is there are many documented cases of vehicles passing emissions with headers.

Since he has a V6, why not get the MSDS headers, with the MIL eliminators and a sho shop y. Heckuva lot cheaper all together, and unless the shop he takes it too here in California are tightwads and know what they are looking for, he should be just fine.

If it's the main cat, then just get a new y pipe.

Kasey, where are you at in Cali? There are a handful of people around that could/might help you. Check out the California Section.

A new y pipe is a cinch to install. New headers are a roral PITA, but doable.

Mike

Take the advice of 69Boss302 and others, just replace your precats with msds headers. You can get them for under $600 and pass smog no problem. The precats are only for when the car is cold, so all you have to do is take a decent drive to warm the car up before you go in for smog. Many people have passed with them in CA. Your main cat in probably fine, no need to touch that.

Basically, going with headers will be easier, cheaper, and give your better performance. Although in Cali you'll have to put them on yourself or have friends do it since no shop will touch them.

my cats are shot

my headers are already ordered and paid for

Update: Code is P0420

Does that mean I can replace only ONE of the manifolds? oefordparts.com seem to have them with good prices, and I have 15% off coupon here somewhere if I order through dealer...

I'm thinking about the MSDS headers. Heck... I know a couple smog shops... I am not too worried about not passing... (EDIT) Hmmm... I can't find them on the CTA website????

The guy I trust at South City apparently quit. Lovely. Why is finding service so hard? I may have to go try Peninsula Ford... (Burlingame)

I'm in San Francisco proper... and I may just need those headers and how they work out... This ain't no SVT though... Just a plain jane LX V-6...

P0420 indicates the pre-cat for Bank 1, the firewall side, is the problem. The more expensive of the two, of course.

I too have this problem on my Mystique although in my case it's a DPFE hose coming off which indicates pre-cat is plugging up.

Some relevant info/background.

Late May I had both pre-cats replaced with less than 100 miles remaining under emissions warranty on my '97. Symptom was DPFE hoses were coming off (throws an EGR trouble code). At the time the '98 was past warranty but operating ok. Not so this past Friday; it had a DPFE hose come off and it's now 4k miles past warranty.

Reviewed problem with dealer shop foreman and Service Mgr., advised to call Ford, although they were not optimistic. Did on Tues. and got the party line; no campaign to replace cats past emission warranty mileage but save receipts in case one is announced in the future.

The shop foreman noted that while original recall on 95/96 models called for the three cats to be replaced, under emissions warranty they are now just replacing the manifold cats. However he noted that on my '97 the old front cat appeared ok and in his experience it was the rear manifold that was usually the problem. as it was on mine. Possibly due to front manifold running cooler due to air flow passing thru' rad.
He suggested replacing rear only on my '98, if I ended up having to pay the whole shot. I suggested gutting would also be an option and we agreed to discuss that further.

I'm currently in same quandry as you are: replace rear manifold or gut? Headers, as suggested by others above, is not an option I will be considering.

Welcome to the club!

Hey Kasey, I live in San Jose, Just get the MSDS headders and i will help you install them. I ahve to do my gutted pre-cats anyways...PM me sometime. But never have the dealer do it. A few local dealers quoted me 700.00 to 800.00 dollars per manifold....thats 1400 to 1600.00 dollars in parts alone. On top of that both sides are 4-6 house in labor EACH!!!!......Trust me and everyone here, MSDA hadders, MIL adapters for your O2 sensors and install your self...you'll save a ton of money.



Roz

Both manifolds are listed at $1600 and seem to be readily available for $1100-1300. My dealer booked 4.4 hrs to do both manifolds.

Got quote from oefordparts.com... They're quoting me $690+$75 core charge (refundable) for the expensive side, plus shipping. The other side is just $225+ $75 core charge more. So 4.5 hours for both manifolds, heh? Wonder how much just one would cost? I can have a local mechanic help me put it in...

Thanks for the offers... I'm NOT a wrenchhead... I don't even change my own oil. This is a commuter car... Used to commute 100 miles a day with this car... Never gave me any problems until the water pump died, and once the ignition cable burned out. Other than that, the car was completely trouble free.

So I just need the expensive side? Or should I bite the bullet and order both and have them both put in together? Or just put in the MSDS headers on this old engine and rely on the main cat to pass? Remember, CA SMOG 2 is coming...

I didn't want to take time to register with www.oefordparts.com to confirm your quoted prices (since I use www.fordpartsonline.com for comparison prices, no registration req'd)) but the price for cheaper front side seems too low, should be about $500. Don't understand why there is a core charge - your source may rebuild them or it maybe to ensure recovery of precious metal from catalytic.

Please note that labor I quoted was for warranty chargeback to Ford and was from an experienced Ford shop. Mechanic there told me it took them over a day to do their first one a few years ago. Also they do from under car and drop sub-frame a little to improve access to rear, rear also a little longer to do due to EGR pipe. I'd assume a 2/2.4 split.

Personally I'm considering only the rear at this point since there is no real labour penalty from doing them separately - probably 1/2 hr since y-pipe has to be removed each time. I am also going to be checking price/availablity of used '99 ones ('00 not available here) as time permits at www.car-part.com , you may wish to do the same.

Wondering out loud (OBD II), are we going to be able to keep up this clean air thing or are going to put food on the table?
Is it a quality of parts thing or just an overpriced nightmare we are all getting forced into or on ourselves?
What's even worse there is no quality public transportation that the major of us can rely to get us to work.
It almost seems as if that, whoever (not sure where to point the finger) has the prime oportunity to mine every last penny out of our pockets?
Can you imagine what these Hybrids are going to be like?
The automobile did give us freedom, but is this price sustainable.
No wonder the europeans are embracing those 2.0 Turbo diesels I read somewhere, Ford Forcus and Pt Cruiser for that market.

Paul
N8BUU

Originally posted by F111D F:

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Wondering out loud (OBD II), are we going to be able to keep up this clean air thing or are going to put food on the table?
Is it a quality of parts thing ....

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Perhaps we have to learn to do both, eh? (note spelling )

Re the parts quality. Yeh Ford seems to have saddled us with poor pre-cats and the '95/96 recalls did not seem to teach them how to improve the later years. Burying cats in manifolds leads to an expensive maintenance item that, like FWD tranny or engine failure, can cause an other wise good car to be junked at, say 8 yrs, when repair cost exceeds value. Not necessarily environmentally friendly when you consider all aspects.

73

p.s. Your prior post to me on another thread hereby appreciated & acknowledged.