Tranny Problems - CEG Archives

Holy crap if I ever need some tranny work done I;m flatbedding the 'Tour up to you family! They sound more reliable then anyone around here. And yes the problem may stem from the rear tranny mount. With that many miles I'm not surprised.

All those tranny mounts on the ATXs droop over time. Both of mine did, twice on Tour 2. Later on the right engine mount (the roll dampener) went south.

Would there be a better tranny mount for an ATX? I know motor mounts have upgrades the yield better response. Is there a way to improve preformace with tranny mounts?

Originally posted by IL Sean:
Would there be a better tranny mount for an ATX? I know motor mounts have upgrades the yield better response. Is there a way to improve preformace with tranny mounts?

There are no aftermarket mounts avaliable for the ATX tour.

You can make you own though... there is a how-to in the suspension forum. You will have to search for it, but basically you go buy a tube of poly (body shop supply stores or a glass shop), remove the old rubber inserts and feel them with the poly. Let them set and boom! You have poly mounts.

But don't take my word for it, go search the suspension forum and find the how-to to get the specifics.

Just in case anyone is interested, I've got a more reasonable explanation of what's happening...

Transmission Forum Post

I did a searh on this but couldn't find anything so I will have to ask it here.
Does anyone know the easiest (ya right) way to take out the tranny from the car? They were thinking they'd have to remove the engine to get to the tranny. But they wanted me to ask and see if any of you have done this and what was the easiest way? They bought a rebuild kit for around $100, and are going to attempt this tomarrow night or Saturday.
I will have to tell them to check out the TC and rear tranny mount. Maybe buy the tc and see if they can get a tranny mount before they do this. You know how it is? When you need a part late at night, the auto parts store is usally closed by then.
Thanks again for all of the helpful information.

I know along time ago people used to dig pits in the ground to work on car. A little side note, that's how "Pits" started being called that, from people using pits dug in the ground to work on their racers. I dunno if this can still be done today. But I would assume you'll prolly have to at least raise some parts, prolly not pull the block though...I could be wrong....

I've never had my tranny out, but I believe it will have to come out the top with the engine. Obviously a major job requiring hoists and stuff. A $15 Haynes manual describes the basic engine removal procedure which is detailed enough for experienced mechanics to follow with no problem.

Tiger561. You're right on the money. They just got around to working on my Tour this last weekend and pulled it apart. Bad TC. They will pick one up today. I hope that's the only problem. They are rebuilding it so I hope this takes care of the problem. Thanks everyone for all of the helpful information.
I will post and let you all know how it all works out, when we're back on the road again.

Yay!! My Tour is almost near completion. Last night the guys were working on it late. Then, on accident they locked the key in the car. Of course I was at home with my spare key, and no car. So, they were unable to complete testing it.
So, after work I may be able to pick her up!! I can't wait!

Let us know what the major problem was.

If you had clean fluid, your TC was the major deal most likely. If the fluid was brown & smelled burned up, then clutch packs & such were fubar.

Yea!!! I got my Tour back!! Now she drives better then she did before! More smooth.
Tiger561, yes the fluid was brown, he said it looked like 1 seal went bad causing the internal gears all go bad. I really wish I would have wrote down was he said, I will have to ask again and let you know. I was so excited to get my car back I was having a hard time remember. Old age I guess.
Yeaaaaa!!! Back on the road baby!

($1,000 later).

Ok, a little more technical information. He said a bushing went out/leaked. Causing the direct clutch to burn out.
It's such a nice feeling to have my car back!

Well, I guess I am not out of the woods with this tranny issue yet. It's all fixed right?

Well it was working fine since I have been driving it, (last Thursday evening.) Well, yesterday after work, I hoped into my Tour and put it in reverse and it had a heck of a hard time going in reverse. The tach went up to 2000 rpm's before it would go into reverse. Then it was slow, but I was able to go into reverse.

Then this morning while backing out of the driveway it was fine. I get to work, and I pulled into a parking space and didn't like how I parked, so I put it into reverse to back up and pull back into the parking space, and same thing.

It went up to 2000 rpm's before it would go into reverse. It drives normal other then reverse. Does anyone know what this issue points towards? Are they going to have to take the tranny apart again? Or is this something as simple as low tranny fluid or something? Any help would be great! Thanks!

In addition to my previous post, we just checked the tranny fluid and it was a little low so he added 1 more quart of fluid. And it still happens, where you put it into reverse you have to rev it up to 2000 rpm's then it will slowly go into reverse. He said he'd read more into the book they bought on it. He will check more later after I get done with work.
Any ideas? Has anyone has a similar issue with the V6 automatic tranny?
Any ideas would really help!

Thanks!

ContourGirl...i too am a contour girl, a 95 contour girl. I too am having serious issues with the contour SE. Initially the Ford Dealer claimed that it was the PCV and then it was an electrical problem, then it was the oxygen sensor. They fixed the PCV and the oxygen sensor but never touched on the "electrical problem" After 500.00 worth of work through Ford, and no progress the car was then diagnoised as having a transmission problem. I felt that it was a transmission problem all along. It started suddenly dragging into all gears, high RPM's a revving sound accompanied with a surge of power once it kicked into gear. A surge so bad it felt as though i had been rear ended. So Ford says tranny problems and they wanted a COSTLY amount of money to fix the tranny. So it was then moved to a transmission specialist who was stumped by the symptoms as well. Finally a manual run through of gears led the specialist to believe that it was a tranny problem (in addition the tranny fluid was full but black-brown-grayish in color, similar to what you described) After a new tranny is put into the contour it is still shifting with hesitation. SO the specialist has been working with the Ford Corp. and a automotive troubleshooting club for two weeks trying to determine what demon is plaguing my car. Just talked to him and everything seems to check ok, but he reverted back to Ford's suggestion of electrical problems. He feels at this point that it is the computer of the car, he is working with a salvage yard to obtain a computer from another contour to test and see if this will fix the contour. The last time i seen my car was May 19th...it is june 18th and still no car. If anyone has any ideas, suggestions, comments, go to hell tips, anything i would be so appreciative! It's come to the point where the automotive troubleshooting club is out of ideas, the specialist is ripping his hair out and there is no way in HELL I can afford a new car, so that is not an option. The contour has to return to me, PLEASE PLEASE HELP! Thanks in advance for any help you may offer.

ciao
brandy

If they replaced your tranny at the ford dealership they should have seen that there is a TSB Technical Service Bulletin to reprogram the PCM(computer) after replacing the transalxe. And another TSB for eractic/late/or harsh shifting to reprogram the PCM as well. Cant remember if the reprograming number is the same. But there should be a simple solution for you. I work at a Ford Dealer in Omaha NE

ContourGirl, sounds like what mine did a long time ago. Mine was the valve body. What happens is that when the fluid is cold, the valves and pistions in the valve body will stick. This does not allow the fluid to flow as it should, as well as not actuating the band or clutches needed for the operation at hand. When warm, the pistons and valves function normally due to the normal swelling from heat.

I am sure that the replacment of your TC (pump too, right?) helped with your problem before, but I had my reservations about it solveing it. It would really be best to have the tranny torn down and all tolerances checked. All parts should be replaced that are out of tolerance or questionable. Of course, a trans go kit should be installed also, since this kit includes a bunch of goodies to update your tranny and resolve certain well known issues with your older year model.

One other thing I would like to add also...

I am putting together a website based on the CD4E. It is on Geocities right now, but when I get done I am hoping to move somewhere else more stable. Feel free to check it out, exspecialy the links section. There is some really good info there. And as always, I invited anyone that has anything more to add to this, feel free to PM any info they have or suggestions for the site. Yeah I know it's plan!!! I am feeling freaking lazy!!!

http://www.geocities.com/yyz81/cd4e/index.html

Actually, my tranny was not replaced. My mom's husband and his son, they rebuilt the tranny with the tranny kit, new torque converter, and pump. It is rebuilt. They looked at it further last night and decided to take it to a shop that can check out the electronics to the transmission. It does shift alot better then it did before it was rebuilt, as I would have suspected.
But, reverse is still a problem, you have to rev it up to 2000 rpm's before you can go into reverse. They think it is computer related. They are making an appointment for this Saturday if possible.

They did check the pressure to the tranny and they said it had alot of pressure. Again, pointing to it being an electrical problem to them. We'll see after we get it to a shop that can read the electronics.

Originally posted by 1998contourV6:
If they replaced your tranny at the ford dealership they should have seen that there is a TSB Technical Service Bulletin to reprogram the PCM(computer) after replacing the transalxe. And another TSB for eractic/late/or harsh shifting to reprogram the PCM as well. Cant remember if the reprograming number is the same. But there should be a simple solution for you. I work at a Ford Dealer in Omaha NE

What TSBs are these ? Do you have the TSB numbers ?
Since when is it necessary to reprogram your PCM just for replacing the transmission ?

Originally posted by Contourgirl:

But, reverse is still a problem, you have to rev it up to 2000 rpm's before you can go into reverse. They think it is computer related. They are making an appointment for this Saturday if possible.

If you have to rev the engine to 2000 rpm to get the CD4E to shift into reverse, it is NOT an electrical problem.

You can test this very easily.
Disconnect the Range Selector sensor on the top of the transmission.
Start the engine and shift into reverse.

If it doesn't go into reverse, its time to take the tranny back down again.
Something is binding in the valve body, and keeping the oil pressure from applying reverse.
That same binding can hold reverse, when you shift from reverse to drive,
and drag reverse while you are driving.
This will burn out some clutches if not fixed.

You don't need the PCM for Reverse. IIRC, reverse is a manual application, not electronic.

Originally posted by contourDOA:
After a new tranny is put into the contour it is still shifting with hesitation.

SO the specialist has been working with the Ford Corp. and a automotive troubleshooting club
for two weeks trying to determine what demon is plaguing my car.
Just talked to him and everything seems to check ok, but he reverted back to Ford's suggestion of electrical problems.
He feels at this point that it is the computer of the car, he is working with a salvage yard
to obtain a computer from another contour to test and see if this will fix the contour.

Can you describe the hesitation you are getting when it shifts ?
The CD4E shifts softly as it is.

If your specialist gets a PCM from a Junkyard, he is going to have to have the PATS codes
erased from it in order for it to work with your car, if your Contour is equipped with the PATS Ignition system.

RoadRunner: With what you described to do, would this affect the tranny pressure if that is in fact the problem?
Thanks so much for the helpful information. I will relay the information to the guys. They have the books out and are studying the tranny to figure out what's going on. I didn't think it was electronic either.
Thanks again!

Originally posted by Contourgirl:
RoadRunner: With what you described to do, would this affect the tranny pressure if that is in fact the problem?
Thanks so much for the helpful information. I will relay the information to the guys. They have the books out and are studying the tranny to figure out what's going on. I didn't think it was electronic either.
Thanks again!

If the pressure is there, the oil pump and the pressure regulator are working.
When you shift into reverse, there is a combination of valves that have to move
to apply pressure to the correct combination of clutches for reverse to engage.
The Oil pressure moves these valves ad well as applying pressure to the clutches.
If the valves are BINDING, no matter how much pressure you apply,
they won't move unless there is enough presure to overcome the BINDING force.

This is why it won't engage until you rev the engine over 2000 rpm.
Revving the engine spins the oil pump faster, and builds up MORE pressure.

My first thought was a seal had not been properly seated during re-assembly. I crushed one when I rebuilt an old Mazda tranny & had to re-use the originals. Partial fluid bypass will prevent proper pressure buildup in different parts of the tranny - depending on which seal is damaged.

A broken/cracked seal might give similar symptoms, but I think that Roadrunner is on the right track - especially since they seem to feel the pressures are correct. While they're in there checking the valves, they can look for some crushed/broken/cracked seals.

I'm sad your Tour is not quite right yet, I know what a bummer that is. But at least you know what a great driving car you'll have after they're done.

Keep us updated. This has been an interesting intellectual exercise for me.

Sounds like a Torque Converter / Converter seal problem - just like ContourGirl.

Just so we're clear. Does the car

A. Rev freely before going into gear?
B. Slowly begin to engage at high RPM then lurch forward?

Keep me updated on the progress - I find it facinating.

When i stated that my contour is hesitating before shifting I mean that when I put my foot on the accelerator it revs up the engine and then it "kicks" into gear, with a lurch forward like i got smashed in the ass end by another vehicle. This PCM thing i have no clue about. I would hope the mechanic would know this, but not sure? He is beginning to sound less hopeful regarding the repair of the contour...he told me that he is running out of options if this PCM does not work. GREEEEEAT!

yeah it is lurching all right. like i said in the previous post when it kicks into gear it feels like i got rear ended, kinda scary!!!! I'll suggest the torque converter to the mechanic, but if he rebuilt - replaced the tranny would this torque converter be a part of that repair?

You would have to request a new torque converter, they are kind of spendy, and not part of the rebuild kit (at least it wasn't in the kit I had them install, I think it costed around $175.00).
Also, I have a similiar issue with my tranny after the rebuild. When I put the car into reverse I have to rev it up to 2000 before the reverse will engage. And it does feel as you suggested.
Well, they guys were able to investigate further this weekend and they said they found the problem. They said it was a bad valve body. Beats me what it is, but they said they'd get the part and replace it this week. I'll keep you posted and tell you what I find out.

Keep us posted, please. When my engine/transmission is warm, I have to rev it to make it go into reverse. Sounds like a similar problem.

Yep! You guys will be the first to know if that is in fact the problem.
He said he is trying to get the valve body today, or whenever they can get it from the parts place they go to. I hope that fixes it!

Originally posted by bentleywarren:
Keep us posted, please. When my engine/transmission is warm, I have to rev it to make it go into reverse. Sounds like a similar problem.

Sounds like you have the same problem. You most likly have a worn valve body, which is causeing the piston needed to engage the Low/Reverse Clutch Assy to stick. This would cause a low pressure condition at the clutch pack, which would not allow the clutches to fully engaged properly. The reason it will engage when you tap the gas, after putting the car in reverse, is because when the engine spins up it increases the line pressure. This in turn, free's the sticking piston.

You could try some of the Lucas Oil trans fix to get you by until the time you can have the tranny rebuilt. Helped mine!

Ok, here's another update on the ongoing tranny issue.
They were waiting for the valve body to arrive, and I drove the car in the meantime. Well, the day it arrived, 2 Fridays ago, the tranny went out again, on my way home. The clutches went out again. So, back to the garage to undergo more surgery. They pulled out the tranny and replaced the clutches and valve body and put it back together. He said there is still something wrong. He's beating his brain out to try to figure this out. Earlier I had to ask what exactly is wrong so I could pick someone's brain here.
New problem. I hope I can explain exactly what he told me.
He said, it now pulses, and pressure is there, then it drops.
Any ideas?

Does anyone have any other ideas on this tranny issue?
He can't figure it out and is frustrated.
Next step is to throw away all of his work and to buy a rebuilt tranny for $450.

GEEZ, this one stumps me. Sounds like there's something floating around in the tranny - the friction coating on the clutch packs can flake off like paint if they get hot enough.

My only guesses would be:

1. The filter clogged because of the clutch wear, but I would expect he cleaned the entire thing out after putting in new clutch packs.
2. The seal thing again. Those $&*^#@ things can be tempermental & bind up during re-assembly.
3. The valve body may not be installed in the correct orientation and/or its seal is not in the correct orientation and/or the seating surface is no longer within spec.

I wish I could be there to pick it apart.

Originally posted by TourDeForce:

My only guesses would be:

1. The filter clogged because of the clutch wear, but I would expect he cleaned the entire thing out after putting in new clutch packs.
2. The seal thing again. Those $&*^#@ things can be tempermental & bind up during re-assembly.
3. The valve body may not be installed in the correct orientation and/or its seal is not in the correct orientation and/or the seating surface is no longer within spec.

I totally agree with Tours comments above. Clogged filter was the first thing that came to my mind.

Actually, here is a little exerpt from an article I ran across a few weeks back.

Some 1995 Contour, Probe and Mystique vehicles equipped with the CD4E (built from December 1994 through February 1995 with serial numbers 43350467 to 43370105 and 43410230 to 4320326) were assembled with oil pumps having incorrect mounting surfaces for the speed sensor on the pump assembly (See Figure 9, page 24). The turbine-shaft speed sensor also was modified to conform to the pump assembly. Mismatching and installing a regular speed sensor can cause contact with the speed-sensor rotor in the transaxle and damage both the rotor and the speed sensor.

To read the entire article, go here. Hope this article can at least give them something to think about anyway. It simple list common electrical faliures relating to the CD4E after rebuilds and their fixes. Why did I post a link to that? Like to keep the playing feild level. It really could be anything that is causeing the problems and even though I do agree with everything Tour listed, I just want to throw some ideas around in the electrical area. Like I said, maybe it will at least give them something to think about.

I really hope you can get this puppy straightened out!

and like Tour said, I really wish I could be there too!! I am kinda sick that way ya know.

Look over to the right of the engine bay, to the left and below the battery.

There should be a small pencil wide tube that goes from the trasmission (bottom of your engine), up to about where the battery is. It's bent near the battery, and is not plugged into anything...supposedly, a mechanic told me it's a "breather" tube, and has to be kept open. I plugged it up one time (cuase it was just haning out in my engine bay, it looked like it belonged somehwere, so i plugged it into a bolt...), and my transmission would not shift...it would rev high and whirrr like you said. Check that...sorry i don't know the techinical term for this tube, but it has to be kept clear and open for the tranny to shift.

Originally posted by Contourgirl:
Does anyone have any other ideas on this tranny issue?
He can't figure it out and is frustrated.
Next step is to throw away all of his work and to buy a rebuilt tranny for $450.

Where would he get a rebuilt for 450 ????

I've got a 95 Contour Sport 4 cyl with a sick trans, they gave me a quote of 2660 to replace it !!! That's parts & labor.

My post is at http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=trouble&Number=345069&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1

Please respond there. Thanks & good luck with yours.

He found a shop somewhere in Wisconsin or Minnesota, but I am not sure where. He said they sold rebuilt tranny's for $450.

Holy smokes!!

$2660 for a rebuild. That's expensive. I have heard of tranny shops turning down a rebuild since there is so much time involved in the rebuild. Also, who actually knows how many parts need to be replaced as well. That can't tell that without pulling it apart. And also what happens after they put it back in the car.

I paid $1000 for a rebuild and they thought only the rebuild kit and a new torque converter would fix it. It didn't. They also needed to replace the valve body. And we found one more problem. I wasn't going to say until it was completely fixed. But they had brought my car to a shop that could hook it up to a computer, and they found a bad sensor. It is the VSS (vehicle speed sensor). My step-brother called the Ford dealership yesterday and they told him they couldn't get the part until next Wednesday. Yeah right. I just called them and they told me they could have it by noon today. So, cross your fingers for me. I hope that fixes the pulsing problem.

Originally posted by Contourgirl:

Holy smokes!! $2660 for a rebuild. That's expensive.

That's replacing the whole transmission, including labor.

I agree it's high. I'm going to check around with a few shops.

I'm still able to drive it around town. I work about 1/2 mile from home if it quits suddenly.

Best of luck with yous.

Well, another update on this ongoing problem.
He replaced the VSS and it didn't help very much. Still the pulsing problem there. We are at a loss. I think he said the next step is to put in that $450 tranny. I hope this gets done soon.

$2660 isn't to bad I guess. I paid $1000 for the rebuild and all that it is causing is a big headache. I should have taken the $1000 and put it towards another car (Contour of course). Oh well. Live and learn right?

UPDATE! OK it's been a couple weeks since my last update but this is the deal, right now. SO he figured out that the transmission had a hairline fracture. He ordered the part to fix it, did not realize that he had to remove some other parts to fix the fracture. In the process broke three other pieces. Ordered those pieces, all is good. Shifts to all gears with ease. However, somewhere along the way the water pump went out? Replaced the water pump, then i'll be damned if the air bag light did not start blinking. He said that he had to remove the steering column to fix the tranny, in the process he broke a spring to the air bag. So that will be fixed by Ford (paid for by tranny dude). All in all, i have not a clue what all was done to my car. But the hairline fracture was the solution. Hope this helps...the contour still has to go back for a two week check up, let's cross the fingers that she is ok! IT's so nice having her back though!

thanks for all the suggestions
b

Another update.
I stopped at the garage to look at my Tour, since she is missed so much.
They had the old tranny out, and the rebuilt one installed. They were working on putting it all back together, but it was getting to late at night for them to continue. I hope they can piece it back together tonight. I can't wait. That'll be a load off of my shoulders. I will also have to pay them more money since they installed another tranny. They aren't making any money off the deal either.

My only worry is that if they put it back together, and the same symptoms occur. That would not be good.

I will let you know when all is good on my Tour again.
Cross your fingers for me!

Well, still no luck with the Tour. He was able to install the new tranny and then ran into more problems. He said it went into reverse, forward, then died. Now we have the wiring harness issue. I found a junkyard that has 2 Tours with the same engine, but they have been there since the middle of last month, but 1 more is coming on tomarrow. So, I'll have to go pull some parts off of it (maybe even a new cupholder).

I am so sorry. You & your mechanics have had a terrible time with that 'Tour. I just cannot imagine having all my efforts frustrated that way.

Keep us updated. In the meantime, if you come down to Florida, I'll let you drive my Contour! I know you miss driving it.

Man, this really sucks. They installed that rebuilt tranny, and then they had fun with some of the wiring harnesses.

Next problem. I have a remote starter in the car. I guess when they install it, they attach it to the old factory system that is used for the keyfob to lock and unlock the doors remotely.
Well, the remote starter works. When you press the lock button, the doors lock, when you press the unlock button the doors unlock. When you press the star button for the remote engine to start, the lights blink about 5 times, then nothing happens.
You know when you put the key in the ignition and turn the key, and you can hear something engage (fuel pump?, I don't know), before you fully turn the key over? Well, when you turn the key, now it sounds like it clicks. It is not engaging something, and now it won't start at all.
Reed thinks when he was pulling out the wiring harness he may have crossed a wire and causing a relay to go bad or smething else is happening. But we don't know.
He said he may take the computer out of the car today and bring it to Napa to see if there are any codes. But, the electrical guru's think something may be wrong with the factory lock and unlock gizmo.

Any ideas?

This is turning out to be the biggest headache!!

Hell yea! An excuse to go to FL? Woo hoo!! I am there! I miss my tour so much! Driving another would be fun!

Update.
They hooked up a snap on code reader to the computer and the main computer wouldn't even work. So, it came down to wiring. They fixed the wiring, and looked at the main computer and it is toast. So, they said they found one for $60. Seems cheap to me. So, hopefully, tomarrow they will have the Tour back up and running. I hope.

My fingers are crossed.

YAY!! My Contour is complete.
They replaced the tranny with a rebuilt tranny, and new wiring harnesses. That's what they believe was wrong with the original tranny after they rebuilt it. It was the bad wiring harnesses. Once they were replaced she runs better then ever!

One question. Now when I put the car into gear, it is really stiff. I assume it is because it is new, but thought I'd check with you guys.

Finally!!