Yeah, but where's the ground?

Thanks horseydug, that helps out alot. First I have to check if all parts are getting proper voltage then see if they are switching at the right times. Your info will help me shed some light on this situation. Thanks alot!!

Hey BK! Those smiles work too man. Thanks!

Here is the information that I was able to gather in a few short runs... Don't worry, I have all the necessary extenstions needed to safely do this while driving.

On Pin 4, TCC signal from PCM, this is what I got.
Gears 1-2 = 85-90 mV
Gears 2-3 = 85-90 mV
Gear 3-4 = 300 mV

At the shift point for 4th, the meter would peak out and then settle, after the shift, to a little above the 300mv range. When slowing to a stop, with brake applied, the voltage would drop back to 85-90mV range once the RPMs reached 1250. If you coasted to a stop, voltage would not drop until you applied the brakes. When this voltage drop occurs, you do feel what feels like a down shift. Presumably, this is the torque converter unlocking. (?)

On Pin 6, Shift Solenoid Power In,

Gears 1-2 = 175mV
Gears 2-3 = 175mV
Gear 3-4 = 14V

While in Park at idle, 175mV - 180mV.
When car is put into drive and you begin moving, voltage drops slightly to 150mV range. Ok! But here is the thing that I noticed during this test. After reaching 4th gear and the voltage reached 14V, soon after, the meter would peak out, the chugging would happen, the tranny would seemingly downshift, RPMs would raise about 250 RPMs and then the voltage would settle back to 175mV. It seems like I am loosing the signal from the PCM at this point.

I am wondering if my Turbine Speed Sensor could have something to do with this. I pulled the connecter on it last weekend and found all sorts of sand and grit in there. Not just around the inside of the connecter, but also in the ports for the connecters. I cleaned it out the best I could. I of course reset the computer.

Any thoughts on what I have gathered so far. Are there some other things that I might could check using the above method?

Thanks

Can you confirm the wire colors I mentioned since I'm unable to make sense of your voltage readings.
If you are measuring power in to solenoid then battery voltage should be measured at all times. If measuring out from solenoid to PCM then you should measure bat volts when PCM is not providing ground path (assuming zero PCM leakage) and the voltage drop across PCM when it is conducting to ground.

Well I just went outside and checked the wire colors, they do not match. That is not the only thing, but I will get to that in a moment.

These colors are from the wiring harness.

Pin 1 = Blk/Red
Pin 2 = Grn/Red
Pin 3 = Blk/Brn
Pin 4 = Blk/Grn
Pin 5 = Grn/Org
Pin 6 = Blk/Wht
Pin 7 = Grn/Yel
Pin 8 = Grn/Wht
Pin 9 = Red
Pin10 = Wht/Red

The way I checked the voltages was by grounding one of the probes to the negitive battery terminal plate and inserting the other into the backside of the plug (PCM side) of the TCC Solenoid on top of the tranny.

I was questioning the voltages myself, since I was never recording 12V at anytime. With engine running, I was only able to measure 6V from Pin 4. After I put the tranny in gear and start rolling, everything went to mV. Although you see that it is switching, but why in mV's? I made several runs for each of the measurements that I took above to verify everything, so I am wondering if my Fluke is fluking out on me.

As for the other thing that I mentioned above... It states in the article that there are two different solenoid assemblies. One with a black connector is a low impedance assembly (1.0-2.0 ohms) and the other is a high impedance (12.5-19.0 ohms) with a beige connector. The resistance can be checked across pins 3 and 4 to check this. Well I have a black connector(on the solenoid assembly) and I check the resistance across pins 3 and 4 and got 20 ohms? It also states in the article that the low impedance assembly should not be used in any CD4E beyond the 95 model year. So now This really confuses the hell out of me because I have a black solenoid body and the resistance measures 1 ohm over what the high impedance should. I should have the high impedance assembly in mine since I have a 98.

I've added manual info alongside your observations:

Pin 1 = Blk/Red .. Gn/W +12 to TCC
Pin 2 = Grn/Red .. Br/R TFT
Pin 3 = Blk/Brn ... W/R TFT
Pin 4 = Blk/Grn ... Bk/Y SS1 to PCM
Pin 5 = Grn/Org .. Gn/Y +12 for SS1, SS2 & timing/coast
Pin 6 = Blk/Wht .. Bk/Bl SS2 to PCM
Pin 7 = Grn/Yel ... Bk/W TCC to PCM
Pin 8 = Grn/Wht .. Bk/R EPC to PCM
Pin 9 = Red ........ Gn/O +12 to EPC
Pin10 = Wht/Red .. Bk/O timing/coast to PCM

Connector shows as round with a flat side up. Pins numbered:
1 2 3
4 5 6 7
8 9 10

I think I'd start by trying to get a +12 volt reading, try with key on, but engine off. Don't think one ohm a big diff.

Ok thanks. There has to be a something that I am missing here then. I will print out the thread, look everything over and go back to the car when I have more time. The information that you have provided has helped a lot.

I am sending off for that Ford Service CD Monday!!! I hope that it can help me understand why our wiring information is different, because the plug description that you give is correct. Or maybe at least prove that I am color blind when working on cars,

. Either way... Thanks again for all your help.

My colors match between '97 Ford wiring manual and '98 CD.
I'm color blind (red/green) and 10% of males are: I was wondering about you.

Originally posted by horseydug:
My colors match between '97 Ford wiring manual and '98 CD.
I'm color blind (red/green) and 10% of males are: I was wondering about you.

LOL! I am sort of wondering myself now.

You gotta get these voltages from a SCAN TOOL.
Try picking up Alex Peper's OBD-II software and cable.
All you need is a laptop with a serial port and Windows 98 or higher.

Getting the voltages from the connector is almost impossible
because you will only read the voltage drop across the solenoids.

You should be measuring the resistance across the solenoids to make sure they are not shorted or open.
You can't take measurements across the PCM gates without damaging the PCM itself.
So you only other option is to use a scan tool and see what it says.
The PCM can feed back to you what the outgoing voltage is.
As long as your Battery is good, Terminals are clean, and Alternator is charging at 14.5V,
there is no reason why there shouldn't be the same voltage across the solenoids.

Another question ?
What Ignition Wires are you using ???
If they are old or bad, they resulting electrical noise they produce,
interferes with the VSS, and that can wreak havoc on your CD4E.

Glad to have some input from the Moderator of the Transmission Modification Forum to help with this member's questions, however I have some critique of your comments quoted below.

Originally posted by RoadRunner:
]You gotta get these voltages from a SCAN TOOL.

Disagree, DVOM is satisfactory for measurements being taken at engine compartment connector.

Quote:

Try picking up Alex Peper's OBD-II software and cable.
All you need is a laptop with a serial port and Windows 98 or higher.

Agree above extremely useful and it actually only needs minimum 386/Win 3.1 or higher.

Quote:

Getting the voltages from the connector is almost impossible
because you will only read the voltage drop across the solenoids.

Tricky to obtain good contact with meter probe, but not impossible. Solenoid operation being deduced from current flow and therefore voltage drop.

Quote:

You should be measuring the resistance across the solenoids to make sure they are not shorted or open.

Member measured 20 ohms in one case.

Quote:

You can't take measurements across the PCM gates without damaging the PCM itself.
So you only other option is to use a scan tool and see what it says.
The PCM can feed back to you what the outgoing voltage is.

Normally use of resistance measurements in solid state circuits can cause harm since meter can introduce currents in excess of component ratings. Voltage readings can be innacurate in low volt circuits due to meter loading. Neither applicable here. In this case gate operation can be determined by voltage on ground side of solenoid coils with no problems.

Quote:

As long as your Battery is good, Terminals are clean, and Alternator is charging at 14.5V,
there is no reason why there shouldn't be the same voltage across the solenoids.

Agreed, that is member's current dilemma.

Quote:

Another question ?
What Ignition Wires are you using ???
If they are old or bad, they resulting electrical noise they produce,
interferes with the VSS, and that can wreak havoc on your CD4E.

Interesting that VSS does not use shielded wire to PCM whereas TSS, CKS and CMP sensors do.

Any comments on wire colors or on member's basic atx symptom since I personally know SFA about atx internals and am just trying to assist in external measurements?

Originally posted by RoadRunner:
You gotta get these voltages from a SCAN TOOL.
Try picking up Alex Peper's OBD-II software and cable.
All you need is a laptop with a serial port and Windows 98 or higher.

Getting the voltages from the connector is almost impossible
because you will only read the voltage drop across the solenoids.

You should be measuring the resistance across the solenoids to make sure they are not shorted or open.
You can't take measurements across the PCM gates without damaging the PCM itself.
So you only other option is to use a scan tool and see what it says.
The PCM can feed back to you what the outgoing voltage is.
As long as your Battery is good, Terminals are clean, and Alternator is charging at 14.5V,
there is no reason why there shouldn't be the same voltage across the solenoids.

Another question ?
What Ignition Wires are you using ???
If they are old or bad, they resulting electrical noise they produce,
interferes with the VSS, and that can wreak havoc on your CD4E.

We (SouthEast) are going to be having a hugh meet going next month and I will see if someone coming will have one of these. I have read a lot about this program and would really like to get it, but right now it is just out of reach. I will post tonight and see if someone has it and will bring it with them.

As I mentioned in my small amount of findings above, I measured the resistance across pins 3 and 4 as instructed by the article that I pointed to. Granted this was only to check if it was the right solenoid body installed in the car. Reason I question this, as stated in my findings, is because the article states that if the solenoid body is black - it is a low impedance solenoid and should not be installed in any year model CD4E's beyond 95. My car is a 98, of course, and the solenoid connector located on top of the tranny is black and I measured 20 Ohms of resistance across pins 3 & 4. This had me very confused from the start, because I am not sure if the connectors on all year models are black or not. If they are all black, then I am ok, because the high impedance solenoid should measure between 12.5 - 19.0 Ohms.

After reading this part of your response, I wondered if this is what you were talking about, since I was checking the resistance of the solenoid and if it was shorted my meter would have measured very low resistance or if the solenoid was blowen it would have pegged out measuring infinite resistance. So this leads me back to my question of the P0743 code that I have. Since it states that I have an electrical problem with the solenoid. This is what I am trying to figure out, "what sort of electrical problem am I having with the solenoid?". All that said, at least I know that it is not shorted or blowen. Right?

My charging system... Well I know that my battery is good and I can verify that my terminals are clean (battery and the terminals of the solenoid connector). As for my alternator charging I cannot verify at this moment, but I can have it checked tomorrow at AutoZone. I can also use my Fluke to do this, but it is cold and dark outside and I hear that monsters come out around times like this! Sorry, just trying to have a sense of humor through all this.

The PCM gates? I think I know what you are talking about here, but just for clearification, could you give a explaination of this? I know that you could do damage to the PCM if you just start putting your probes on even pin terminal, which is one reason why I only checked across 3&4. I had information on this combo and was not going to go any further then that.

Wires? Good question. Actually, when I got the car out of the shop the last time, when this code came about, they were the first things I changed. They are Autolite Professional wires. Thickness? 8.0mm I knew about the havoc that shorting wires could cause the VSS. Thanks to you, Roadrunner.

I've had this tranny dug into three times in the past 4 months and it has been really hard to follow what they have done becasue the shops line of communication is about as long as their... ok I wont go there! That is part of the reason it is not going back to them.

You should download the trial software and get familiar with it before your meet.

If your Fluke can measure 14.5 volts you should be able to confirm alt OK yourself.

Please keep us posted on outcome.

As a matter of fact, I downloaded the trial software right after posting that above. Pretty spiffy! To bad I can't run out there and play with it.

Originally posted by unisys12:
As for the other thing that I mentioned above... It states in the article that there are two different solenoid assemblies. One with a black connector is a low impedance assembly (1.0-2.0 ohms) and the other is a high impedance (12.5-19.0 ohms) with a beige connector. The resistance can be checked across pins 3 and 4 to check this. Well I have a black connector(on the solenoid assembly) and I check the resistance across pins 3 and 4 and got 20 ohms? It also states in the article that the low impedance assembly should not be used in any CD4E beyond the 95 model year. So now This really confuses the hell out of me because I have a black solenoid body and the resistance measures 1 ohm over what the high impedance should. I should have the high impedance assembly in mine since I have a 98.

unisys12,

You aren't crazy.
You probably still have the original solenoid assembly still in your tranny
after all the work that has been done in it so far.
Replacement solenoids have a BROWN connector, and the replacement solenoids with the BLACK connectors
are limited to use on only 95 years or older,
but the BROWN solenoids can be used on all years.
The reason for the warning is because the PCM used in the 95 is different from the 96+ years.
The PCM in the 96+ years will short out if used with the low impedance solenoid pack.
I wouldn't worry. If that was the case here, you'd have more problems than what you have now.

Looking at my 98 FORD Workshop Manual CD, here's what I found out for you...
It is a lot of info, with some of it replicating what horsedug already stated.

P0743 - TCC - Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid circuit failure during self test.
TCC solenoid circuit fails to provide voltage drop across solenoid.
Circuit shorted or processor drive failure during self-test.
Failed ON - Engine stalls in manual second, engine lugging,
poor performance at low engine speeds, harsh shift.
GO to pinpoint test C.

Transmission Vehicle Harness connector...
Pins labeled pretty much as horsedug said but they are labeled here as follows...

Pin1 - GN/WH TCC Power
Pin2 - BN/RD Signal Return
Pin3 - WH/RD TFT Signal
Pin4 - BK/YE SSA Signal
Pin5 - GN/YE Solenoid Power
Pin6 - BK/BU SSB Signal
Pin7 - BK/WH TCC Signal
Pin8 - BK/RD EPC Signal
Pin9 - GN/OG EPC Power
Pin10 - BK/OG 3-2T/CCS Signal

Manual indicates the need to perform the Solenoid Voltage test via the Rotunda Transmission Tester.
This tool is used to separate the Transmission from the PCM.
This will rule out or prove shorted Solenoid.

Voltage out of PCM needs a scan tool to command Output State Test Mode ON and OFF for TCC Solenoid driver (OTM).
Connect Scan tool to DLC.
Turn KOEO (Key On Engine Off)
Select OTM and PCM will respond ALL ON?
Push START to turn ON, STOP to turn OFF.

While in OTM, turn off key.
Discoonect Transaxle Connector and inspect terminsla for corrosion,
damaged or pushed pins, loose wires, missing or damaged seals.
Turn Key to ON
Connect VOM positive lead to VPWR Pin1 and negative test lead to TCC circuit pin7.
Place VOM on 20V scale.
While observing VOM press START and STOP.
Voltage will change at least 0.5v if PCM Output driver is working.

No voltage means Harness may be shorted.

Then on to testing the TCC Solenoid.
Test Procedure states that if resistance of TCC Solenoid is NOT between 12.5 and 19 ohms, replace solenoid body assembly.
Your 20 ohms may be just enough out of range to produce the CEL.
Under the DVOM, it looks okay, but under VPWR, it may short out.

Under the Diagnose by Symptom chart it indicates Inspect and/or
repair damaged or misaligned transmission range sensor.

Also conduct TCC Operation test...
Drive vehicle at highway for approx 15 minutes to bring to operating temperature.
Maintain constant 50 mph and tap brake with left foot.
Engine RPM should increase and then decrease after 5 seconds.
If this doesn't occur refer to Torque Converter Operation concerns.

If vehicle is at a stop and stalls in D, mover transaxle range selector to Manual 1.
If vehicle doesn't stalll at stop in Manual 1 refer to Toque Converter Diagnosis by Symptoms.

Basically, if you got this far, you may need a new Torque Converter...

Pete...

Originally posted by unisys12:
As a matter of fact, I downloaded the trial software right after posting that above. Pretty spiffy! To bad I can't run out there and play with it.

I've been playing with it for the last 18 months,
and I can get over how easy it is to use !!!

Originally posted by RoadRunner:
If vehicle is at a stop and stalls in D, mover transaxle range selector to Manual 1.
If vehicle doesn't stalll at stop in Manual 1 refer to Toque Converter Diagnosis by Symptoms.

Basically, if you got this far, you may need a new Torque Converter...

Pete...

Thanks for all the information you have posted here. Gives me a lot to go on.

Reason I quote the above statements is because the other day, I noticed that if I placed the gear selecter in first gear that the car would barly move. Felt almost like clutch slippage in an MTX. I did not press the issue at all, not allowing engine RPMs to get over 2000. I quickly pressed the brake, came to a stop, put the car back into drive and then took off. This really worried me and one reason why I have started with this. Felt that it had to do something with the torque converter

As for the Vehicle Explorer. I have not even used it and I love it! Seems like you could make you own OBDII terminal attachment on take off from there, I have pretty much everything else, but I am not sure about what the router interface is that he is talking about. I have been playing with the sample file too much to do much reading. Either way, it is worth every penny. Really it is actually a fair price. It is on my "to buy list" for sure (there goes that strut brace!!). I did find someone that will be at the Nashville meet that has it, so I will be doing plenty of recording while there, then get home and evaluate what I got.

Thanks again for all your help guys! I have gotten pretty busy this week so I will not be able to do anything as for troubleshooting this week, but I will this weekend.

Quote:

Also conduct TCC Operation test...
Drive vehicle at highway for approx 15 minutes to bring to operating temperature.
Maintain constant 50 mph and tap brake with left foot.
Engine RPM should increase and then decrease after 5 seconds.
If this doesn't occur refer to Torque Converter Operation concerns.

Just thought I would let you know that I tried this today and got varied results. Yeah I know! It either works or it doesn't, but the first time that I tried it (after driving about 20 miles after the car reached normal operating temp) it did not happen. I tried again right after this and the RPM's rasied about 250 RPMs and then decrease just has you said.

Ok. So thinking that maybe I tried the test too soon, I tried again about 20 minutes later. Same results, the first time I tried it, the RPMs did not raise. I tried again immeditely after and the RPMs raised and then lower as above.

Could it be that I am chasing a intermitent short. Possibly located in the harness that is located under the valve body cover? From looking at pictures of this part in the parts diagrams that I have, it seems that there is a small amount of harness between the solenoid body and the connecter that is mounted on top of the tranny. Only reason I am thinking this, is because it could have been damaged while on the work bench. Possibly something was dropped on the harness and nothing was thought of it at the time. After getting everything back together, the problem rears it's ugly head.

Anyway, since the converter locked (even if the second time) that would mean that mechanically, it is working. The solenoid is just not locking it when it is suppose to, hence the code P0743.

Then again, I could have held the brake too long the first time or something like that.

At any rate, I am going to wait until I get my Ford CD from Todras and get a few good scans with the Vehicle Explorer next month (Thanks tiv!!) and go from there. I think I have made a great deal of progress with all the help you guys have given me. Thanks again!

P.S. After I get a few good scans recorded, would either of you be willing to take a look at them if nothing jumps out at me. I will, of course, throughly go over them myself first and possible start a new thread at that time with my findings. Remember this will be another month away, but just thought I would go ahead and ask now.

Originally posted by unisys12:
Anyway, since the converter locked (even if the second time) that would mean that mechanically, it is working. The solenoid is just not locking it when it is suppose to, hence the code P0743.

unisys12,

This is NOT the reason for the code.
The reason you are getting a code is because when you first start the car,
the PCM goes through a self test, and also tests and measures the resistances of all circuits.
The measurement taken on your TCC Solenoid is out of range.
This is why there is a code.
The solenoid may still be working, but to the PCM
the measured resistance puts it into a malfunctioning category.

Gotcha. I follow you on that one. Ok! Time to start shopping then.

Bigtime update on my torque converter clutch solenoid problem.

I must first though admit to my own ignorance!!

When checking the resistance across pins 3 & 4, which is mentioned above, I unknowingly was checking the wrong pins! After looking at everything, reflectively, I noticed that the connecter was upsidedown in the image of the PDF file that I was referenceing. Why this was not noted I have not idea, but it could be verified by looking at the connector in the drawing and reference the tabs located on the outside of the connecter.

Anyway, now that is overwith (taking a deep breath!), I had time this afternoon to recheck the resistance and found that it is measures exactly 2 Ohms. This verifies the confusion as to why my connecter is black! Remember, I said that the low impedence solenoid body had the black connecter and was phased out during the 95 model year. During that same year, a new high impedence solenoid body was introduced that had a beige (natural) connecter. All CD4Es from the years of 93-95 can have either solenoid body with no adverse effects. Put one of the low impedence solenoids in a post 95 CD4E and there will be problems. It also verifies what Roadrunner was telling me in the end, that the code was being generated because the PCM was not senseing the proper amount of resistance from the solenoid, hence the code P0743 once the car reached open loop operation.

So that is pretty much where I am right now. The car still runs good and gets very good gas mileage (29-30 mpg), but most importantly I wanted to get this out to everyone so that it can be referenced in the future.

Thanks again to horseydug and Roadrunner for all the help in troubleshooting this problem. If not for them, I would still not know a single thing about this subsystem of our CD4E.

Your welcome and thanks for the update.

Is the conclusion to problem that the rebuilder installed wrong solenoid?

Exactly!

Just another reason to learn as much as possible about your car, no matter what kind it is, so you wont get stiffed. Thanks to you guys... I came out pretty good this time. Well better then most anyway.

Originally posted by unisys12:
Bigtime update on my torque converter clutch solenoid problem.

This verifies the confusion as to why my connecter is black! Remember, I said that the low impedence solenoid body had the black connecter and was phased out during the 95 model year. During that same year, a new high impedence solenoid body was introduced that had a beige (natural) connecter. All CD4Es from the years of 93-95 can have either solenoid body with no adverse effects. Put one of the low impedence solenoids in a post 95 CD4E and there will be problems. It also verifies what Roadrunner was telling me in the end, that the code was being generated because the PCM was not sensing the proper amount of resistance from the solenoid, hence the code P0743 once the car reached open loop operation.

I have just installed a remanufactured CD4E in a 98 Contour and I am having numerous problems with the shifting. The car seems to start in 2nd gear, immediately downshift to 1st gear and then shift back to second and then to third. It does this rather erratically. Also the Torque Converter Clutch seems to drop in and out when cruising at 50 MPH. The only DTC I get is a P0743. The reason I ask in this thread is because this is a 98 Contour and the remanufactured CD4E has a black Transaxle Harness Connector and I am measuring a TCC solenoid resistance of 1.5 Ohms rather than the 12.5 - 19 Ohms specified in the Mitchell manual. I do not remember what color the connector was on the old transaxle, the core has already been sent to the remanufacturer. Do I have the wrong valve body installed in my transaxle???? Has it damaged the PCM???????

thanks