Emission testing problem

If the PCM had the P0430 code in it, then the CEL light would have been ON.
P0430 is a MAJOR Emissions Failure.

If you reset the PCM and drive it, and no CEL light comes on, then there NEVER was a code.
Makes you think about the guy who was running the inspection though...

Originally posted by RoadRunner:
Makes you think about the guy who was running the inspection though...

I've had friends who work at emissions centers. Trust me, it doesn't require any knowledge of a car other than what you need to get a license. If the computer says PASS, you pass. If it says FAIL, you fail; that's it.

Originally posted by hetfield:

Originally posted by RoadRunner:
Makes you think about the guy who was running the inspection though...

I've had friends who work at emissions centers. Trust me, it doesn't require any knowledge of a car other than what you need to get a license. If the computer says PASS, you pass. If it says FAIL, you fail; that's it.

I think not. I had a NYS Emissions Inspector License during my employment at a Buick Dealership.
It takes more than a driver's license knowledge to get an Emissions Inspector's license.

Hmmm... The people I know that work(ed) at my local emission station didn't need that much extra training, and they never mentioned anything about an inspector's license. One in particular got fired for taking too many liberties with his job. It would surprise me that he'd go through the process of getting a license just to throw the job away. He made it sound like the job was easy to get and easy to lose.

Might it be possible that NY is different from WI? Or is emissions more federal?

Originally posted by hetfield:
Might it be possible that NY is different from WI? Or is emissions more federal?

I believe so. I have heard that PA doesn't even do emissions inspections yet.

Originally posted by hetfield:
Or is emissions more federal?

This is my understanding...

Emissions is a Federal standard for new cars sold in the U.S. That is, all cars (this even includes Ferraris and Lamborghinis) sold in the U.S. must be built according to the OBD-II standard. FYI: I believe that CA is slightly different (ie, stricter) than the rest of the U.S.

But checking emissions is another matter...

Originally posted by GeoPappas:
But checking emissions is another matter...

I think you might be right. What surprises me is that normally my great state is usually very strict when it comes to pollution and the environment. Many companies have left WI because of the restrictions and associated penalties. I never would have thought that we're behind the curve when it comes to automobile emissions. What good is it when the tests are strict but the proctors are slacking?

Originally posted by hetfield:
What good is it when the tests are strict but the proctors are slacking?

Sounds a little like airport security

Originally posted by GeoPappas:

Originally posted by hetfield:
Might it be possible that NY is different from WI? Or is emissions more federal?

I believe so. I have heard that PA doesn't even do emissions inspections yet.

The metro areas of Philadelphia and Pittsburg do chassis dyno emissions tests (at 10 MPH). I'm due in April (and passed on the 3L last April with flying colors). The Duratec is a VERY clean running engine and can pass in a less-than-perfect state of tune (and even missing cat(s)).

Cars are built to conform to federal emissions standards, both OBD-II monitoring and actual tailpipe emissions as measured on pre-production cars submitted to the federal government before production is started and through statistical tailpipe monitoring of production vehicles.

Now, monitoring cars after they get into consumers' hands is the job of the states. The EPA either can require or strongly recommend (not really sure which, but both are essentially the same) that specific areas/states perform emissions testing.

Each state can determine what type of testing to do to satisfy the EPA (and this gets to the heart of the topic starter's problem), with many opting to do so-called OBD-II Emissions testing. Basically, they scan your computer to see if there are any Pending Trouble Codes, Diagnostic Trouble Codes (CELs), and if all of the on-board monitors have run and passed.

The way it's going to work (eventually) in PA is that any 1996+ car gets the scan. If any of the following three occur, you go on the chassis dyno (i.e. you failed the OBD-II part): a PTC, a DTC, or any of the monitors do not indicate completion and passing. The reason for the monitor check is to prevent people (like us) from unplugging the battery just before going to the test center. Do that, and the monitors will be incomplete.

However, each state does it differently and certifies their inspectors differently. So it is posible that yokels in WI can get certified but knuckleheads in NY can't.

OK, so here's my advice for the topic starter: DO NOT CLEAR YOUR PCM BY PULLING THE BATTERY CABLE. Doing that will prevent you from ever knowing if your leg was pulled. Take the car to Autozone and get the codes scanned. Make sure the monkey with the scanner knows how to look for PENDING CODES. If nothing shows up (and DTC P0430 does set a CEL, but PTC P0430 does not), you were rooked. If something does, and your state has no fallback for failing the OBD-II test (like running some sort of sniffer test), then clear the battery and go back in a few weeks. The monitor that sets P0430 is the last to run and could take quite a while. If you still fail for P0430, and you are still under the Federal Emissions warranty (8/80 IIRC), make a trip to the Ford dealer.

Hey guys... I do emission testing here in Ontario, Canada. They just tightened the limits by 15% at the beginning of the new year. In the 3 years I've been testing cars, I've only failed one Contour. And that was because it had been stored for like a year. I agree, the DURATECH engines are very clean engines. Recently it wasn't a surprise to see a 1996 V6 Mystique with 200k on it with a pass. Also I have passed Contours with their check engine light ON, perhaps the EGRs on them weren't working up to snuff.

At times the guy who runs the inspection (c'est moi!) can decide the fate between a PASS and a FAIL for a vehicle. For example couple months back I failed my friend's 1999 Saturn SL1 with 40k. Reason? My friend only drives it 5km everyday, never takes it on the highway...therefore the vehicle never gets to properly warm up. This in a way clogs emission reducing components. At that point I took the Saturn on the highway for a fast boot with the A/C cranked and 15 minutes later the car passed with flying colours. It's good to know the history of the car being tested.

But I'm not writing this because your Contour is suppose to pass Gary (

still wondering about your FAIL result). I don't know what the emission results were. Care to forward a copy of the test results to me? I want to compare them to the results from my car. The email is product_of_poland@hotmail.com

The problem with the OBD-II check is that even if the car passes the smog test, it can still fail. If your car is showing any code related to emissions, it will fail, even if the smog test is perfect.

I just had my emissions done on the 14th, and certain years, like mine, only have to have an OBD-II test and gas cap test (to make sure the cap can hold a vacuum). The don't even do the smog test. Next year I'll have to have the smog test done, but I'm not worried about passing.

My 98 Mystique 6 cyl 89K. failed the emission test TODAY! (Ontario Canada). They ran the diagnostics and have to replace both O2 sensors. Cost me just under $600.00 Canadian.

Originally posted by billnah:
My 98 Mystique 6 cyl 89K. failed the emission test TODAY! (Ontario Canada). They ran the diagnostics and have to replace both O2 sensors. Cost me just under $600.00 Canadian.

Did you have a CEL? Did it fail smog(which then prompted a PCM check?

What's really ticks me off is the prices of the these pollution parts. Ford?dealers? whoknows? has the audacity to charge $76 US for that junk DPFE that has the life expectancy of bug flying around a bug zapper, this I just learned is $38 US wholesale. Must have cost the vendor $2-3 dollars to slap togther.
Since I've lost my job 4 years ago (29+ tech @phoneZoo) like so many in the US (corp greed 90's style alias rape). Well it makes you stop and think and want to get even, but I must mention I went through the Vietnam deal and "I have a BAD attiude"

Paul

Someone forgot to take his happy medication this morning. tsk tsk.

After watching Nova tonight, all this will not matter, even if one of those stored biological agents accidently gets released, bye-bye to life on this planet. Imagine what they didn't or couldn't tell us.

Paul

but if u survive, u get the bonus of being able to remove all your emissions shiz...there wont be any smog people around

Originally posted by hetfield:
Might it be possible that NY is different from WI? Or is emissions more federal?

NY and CA are the strictest in the USA for setting Emission Limits that your vehicle must pass.
The Federal Government sets one level and it is up to the states to accept this as a minimum
or enforce a level that is tighter than the Federal Limits.

Because of the number of vehicles in NY and CA, these states chose to enforce a tighter regulation,
in order to reduce atmospheric pollutants.

Now, I don't know what the connection is between codes and emission testing, but the last emission testing devices I saw,
and I haven't seen a treadmill setup yet, did NOT connect to your vehicle via the DLC connector.
They connected to the battery, spark wire, and tailpipe.
The Ground through the tailpipe was enough to insure that emission samples were taken from the same vehicle.

In NYS, emissions are tested at IDLE, 55MPH, and then at IDLE again.
IIRC, guys please correct me here if I am wrong, the vehicle being tested has to be DRIVEN, prior to the test,
to insure that all emission related components are at operating temperature.
You just can't start the vehicle and let it idle for 15 minutes before testing.
It has to be DRIVEN for the duration.

Unless you have a CEL, there is no reason for anyone to connect a scanner to your car and diagnose a problem.
If you car doesn't pass, they are obligated to tell you what didn't pass.
They should NOT be telling you what caused it not to pass. They can offer you a diagnosis/repair
but that offering and information should be SEPARATE from the Emissions Inspection.
You have the right to choose who does the repairs, and in NYS, your current Inspection remains VALID,
unless it has expired, in which you can get a temporary sticker which gives you 10 days to make repairs,
and then get the car retested at the same facility for free.
Subsequent testing is at a charge.

Changing a burned out light bulb for Safety Inspections is one thing,
but then telling you both O2 sensors have to be changed and not giving you supporting diagnostics,
is totally wrong, and price gouging, in my opinion.

There are a lot of people out of work today, and the results are
people spending LESS money, and tightening up on spending for a lot of necessary things.
This affects all businesses, and makes you wonder if the repairs you are quoted
are really necessary for YOU or for your MECHANIC ???

I just realized something. In NY, the emissions inspectors work for garages, true? I think that's where my confusion was. In WI you have to go to a separate emissions center, where all they do is test cars. There are only three of four that I know of in our metro area of 1,000,000+ people. I think that's why there's no license or testing required: you're expected to get all that when you start your job.

Originally posted by RoadRunner:
Unless you have a CEL, there is no reason for anyone to connect a scanner to your car and diagnose a problem.

Its a required part of the test here, whether or not you have a CEL. I'm sure they do this because someone is bound to pull their CEL bulb prior to going in for testing. Then they test the gas cap for a proper seal. That's in off years; in on years you get the tailpipe test. This is all done by computer, and when its over you get a printout. If you fail, the printout explains why and you're instructed to take your vehicle to a garage with the printout. They fix the problem at your expense (bend over!) and you get retested.

His state does the OBD-II test, which is simply (and completely) scanning the diagnostic codes. No tailpipe test at all. Coming soon to a smog check station near you (it's the wave of the future).

So, PTC or DTC and BAM! you fail. Of course, it's up to the station (and the owner) to decide how to address the problem(s).

Originally posted by hetfield:
I just realized something. In NY, the emissions inspectors work for garages, true? I think that's where my confusion was. In WI you have to go to a separate emissions center, where all they do is test cars. There are only three of four that I know of in our metro area of 1,000,000+ people. I think that's why there's no license or testing required: you're expected to get all that when you start your job.

Okay, then this explains it.
In NY, in order to have the privilege of failing vehicles on Emissions Inspections,
you have to obtain a NYS Motor Vehicle Saftey/Emissions Inspection License.
This requires taking a course and then passing a test.
This gives civilians the right to conduct State Safety & Emission testing.

Since in WI, your inspections are held at a State Owned Emissions Center,
then their employees and Inspectors are considered State Employees,
and they are trained to do the Emissions Inspection under the direction of WI.