I've heard others express similar problems, but have yet to get any sort of consensus on a fix. I have the 95 Duratec V6 - very suddenly the car has a terribly rough idle, loss of power, harsh hesitation and vibration, though it has yet to die. The mileage is now 130K -- at 100K I had Rockwall Ford perform a tune-up. The plugs, serpentine belt, coolant, ATX fluid, waterpump, fuel filter, air filter, O2 sensor (1 was bad), idle control valve, and MAF sensor were all replaced (but not plug wires for some odd reason). I've had someone suggest a tune-up...but I hesitate to pay for another tune-up while the plugs are only 30K old...but could the wires be bad??? Also, a local shop says they need to put it on the computer...but the CEL is NOT lit up...so would a $50 computer test actually turn anything up? I'm a college student and don't have much money and I need some sort of partially definitive game plan before I start draining my savings account! I've already replaced the air and fuel filters AGAIN to no avail, and also disconnected the battery and let the car re-learn the idle...no help. Should I shell out another $100 on a tune-up, or pay the $50 first for a computer test? Someone please help me...this is driving me INSANE!
Plug wires. At 130 K, I have to believe you need new ones.
although I have a zetec my plug wires went one day and I got a horrible stumble on acceleration, new plug wires took care of it, that was around 108k
With no cel, id guess plugs wires, especially at your mile-age
I am suprised that you did not mention the PCV valve - and that you let the air filter go 30k.
The CEL does not have to be on, there may be codes stored anyway.
Vacuum leaks are often the cause of this kind of problem. Check the valve and hose which are under the throttle body.
I assume that you do not know if it's running too rich or to lean.
A computer diagnostic will tell you if a sensor is bad, or point to the problem if it's mechanical.
Well the air filter didn't help the problem, anyways. And I don't know where/what the throttle body is. Is there a way to disconnect one of the plug wires and visually inspect it for problems? I don't know my way around an engine bay - can someone provide an explanation for "dummies?"
On the advice of a local mechanic, I misted a spray of water onto the front plug wires and noticed "arcing" between the wires. This should be a good indication that my plug wires are bad, right???
T,
Yes I would have to say that arching of the wires is bad.
Since noone has really touched on your "computer" question, I would like to touch on that.
Today, alot of people think that just because a mechanic says "it needs to be put on the computer" that this means a scan tool. This is not always the case. They are most likely talking about a good old fashioned engine analyzer. These things cost serious money, so you have to pay even to hook-up to one and 50 bucks is about right. Most of the time, a tech will scan for codes stored in memory, take that information and if nothing very obvious is found they plug your car up to an analyzer which can give more detailed information such as emissions, timing, visiually see the spark curve, etc... Compile all the information and make specific checks of certian items or circuits.
I hope this clears things up a little. There really is no way to get someone to understand fully what goes on in shop (a good one anyway) and when I was a mechanic I tried to involve the customer as much a possible so that they might get a better picture. Sometimes though, it is better to leave well enough alone and find a shop that you know you can trust and fill comfortable with.
As for shelling out another 100 smackers for another tune-up? DON'T! All you need is the plug wires. Since you say that you don't know your way around the engine bay and need to save money, ask a friend that does to assist you in changeing the wires yourself. You will find that it is fairly rewarding.
T,
I ran across
this on the site tonight. It gives you something to go on at least, working around the wires and plugs of your car.
Hope it helps you out some.
Originally posted by TDawg76:
On the advice of a local mechanic, I misted a spray of water onto the front plug wires and noticed "arcing" between the wires. This should be a good indication that my plug wires are bad, right???
try those...
you can reset the computer by disconnecting your battery or pulling fuses 4 and 11.
OH MY GOD...
This has been one major headache after another! First of all, I went to Autozone and bought a set of plug wires, total cost $55.19. However, NOBODY in the area will put them on - they will only put THEIR wires on. Second, once all the local shops learned the V6 is mounted transversely they told me they wouldn't even consider working on it. Thridly, several guys have said that they think there is something electronic wrong with the car, not plug wires. (the idle revs to 2500, drops almost to 0, revs back up to 2000, drops to almost 0, etc. etc. etc. plus MAJOR vibration, harshness)
OK...so...first of all, WHY won't anyone work on this freakin engine!?!? Second...would the idle problem be caused by plug wires...or do I have something else wrong?
I've reset the computer to no avail. I think I'm going to spend the $50 or so dollars for a computer test...maybe someone can tell me what is wrong with this damn V6...
HELP!?!?
Originally posted by TDawg76:
OH MY GOD...
This has been one major headache after another! First of all, I went to Autozone and bought a set of plug wires, total cost $55.19. However, NOBODY in the area will put them on - they will only put THEIR wires on. Second, once all the local shops learned the V6 is mounted transversely they told me they wouldn't even consider working on it. Thridly, several guys have said that they think there is something electronic wrong with the car, not plug wires. (the idle revs to 2500, drops almost to 0, revs back up to 2000, drops to almost 0, etc. etc. etc. plus MAJOR vibration, harshness)
OK...so...first of all, WHY won't anyone work on this freakin engine!?!? Second...would the idle problem be caused by plug wires...or do I have something else wrong?
I've reset the computer to no avail. I think I'm going to spend the $50 or so dollars for a computer test...maybe someone can tell me what is wrong with this damn V6...
HELP!?!?
plug wires are simple to install yourself on the duratec..you should be able to do it easily..just remove and replace one at a time...
I had posted previously that I don't know my way around an engine bay and I can't do them myself.
Anyone else have ideas as to what may be wrong?
T,
Ok, just take the wires back and use the 50 bucks towards the shop test. Even if you have to take the car to a Midas shop. I understand your situation. I have a friend that wont even try to change his own oil!
I suggested to get a friend to help you put them on. Most mechanics will not install parts that you buy for several reasons. Mostly warrenty, others is money.
With your engine reving weird like that and no "check engine light" sounds strange, but I have seen stranger. Might be best to just get it to a shop and let them take a look at it. Like I said, even if it is a chain shop such as Midas or Pepboys.
Sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time. Wish you all the best.
Thanks unisys12,
I think it's weird that the CEL isn't on with the engine behaving so oddly, also. It did this last year and it was well over $1000 to fix, though at that time the CEL was ON. They replaced the computer, EGR valve, MAF sensor, O2 sensors, plus did a tune-up -- all on my dime! Surely after only one year and less than 30,000 miles those same components could not have gone bad!?!? *sigh* I dunno...
After I drop $50 on a computer test I'll let you know what the mechanic says. Peace out.
A loose or leaking vacuum hose can cause all sorts of idling problems.
Originally posted by bentleywarren:
A loose or leaking vacuum hose can cause all sorts of idling problems.
My thoughts exactly.
Originally posted by TDawg76:
I'm a college student and don't have much money and I need some sort of partially definitive game plan before I start draining my savings account!
Originally posted by TDawg76:
I don't know my way around an engine bay - can someone provide an explanation for "dummies?"
Unless you have a good friend or family member that works on cars, bringing you car to a mechanic is a crap shoot. In my opinion, most are rip-off artists, and very few are honest. Having said that, I would suggest learning to work on your car so that you don't blow your whole savings account trying to fix something that is probably simple.
Replacing the ignition wires is one of the simplest things to do on our cars. The only tool that you will need is a socket wrench (to remove water pump pulley shield (the plastic cover that is just to the right of the oil cap as you look at the engine from the front of the car)). You should also get dielectric grease (available at your local auto parts store for ~ $1-$3) to coat the inside of the ignition wire boots.
One more tip (as mentioned above) is to replace one wire at a time, since you don't want to cross-wire the plugs.
Here are the detailed instructions from the Ford Technical Service Publication (in case you decide to tackle the problem yourself):
Ignition Wires
Removal
1. On 2.5L engine, remove water pump pulley shield.
2. CAUTION: Do not pull on the ignition wire directly as the wire may separate from the connector inside the boot.
Disconnect ignition wires from spark plugs (12405) by grasping the ignition wire spark plug boot and twisting slightly in both directions to free it.
3. CAUTION: Do not pull on the ignition wire directly as the wire may separate from the connector inside the spark plug boot.
Disconnect the ignition wires from the ignition coil (12029) by squeezing the locking tabs and twisting while pulling upward.
4. Open ignition wire separators (12297) and remove ignition wire.
Installation
1. CAUTION: Proper installation of ignition wires is critical to vehicle operation. If one ignition wires is not properly installed on the spark plug or ignition coil, both spark plugs connected to that ignition coil may not fire properly.
Whenever an ignition wire is removed from a spark plug or ignition coil, or a new ignition wire is installed, apply Ford Silicone Dielectric Compound D7AZ-19A331-A (Motorcraft WA-10) or equivalent meeting Ford specification ESE-M1C171-A to the boots prior to installation using a small, clean tool. Coat the entire interior surface of the boots.
2. Install each ignition wire to the proper terminal on the ignition coil. The terminals on the ignition coil are numbered. Make sure the boots are fully seated and that both ignition coil boot locking tabs are engaged.
3. Route ignition wire through ignition wire separators and close ignition wire separators.
4. Connect ignition wires to spark plugs.
5. On 2.5L engine, install water pump pulley shield.
Thanks for the posts...
Not to seem like a smartass, but if changing the plug wires on our car is so simple, why has every single mechanice in town declined to work on the 2.5 V6? They have all taken one look at where the rear spark plugs are and told me "no way."
Second, what kind of vaccuum lines and hoses can I look at to see if there is a leak or hole or something?
Thanks again...
You could always go to your local auto parts store (pep boys, autozone) and buy a Chiltons or Haynes Manual for the car, they have easy to follow instructions on doing just about anything to your car... I have an I4 in my car so my plug wires are right there at the top of the engine, very simple, a monkey could do them, I don't know about the Duratec engine though, never worked on one, except changing the oil...
Originally posted by TDawg76:
Thanks for the posts...
Not to seem like a smartass, but if changing the plug wires on our car is so simple, why has every single mechanice in town declined to work on the 2.5 V6? They have all taken one look at where the rear spark plugs are and told me "no way."
Second, what kind of vaccuum lines and hoses can I look at to see if there is a leak or hole or something?
Thanks again...
dude ANYONE can change the plug wires on a duratec...just pop your hood and have a look..it is SIMPLE...YOU could do it in less than 30 minutes yourself....damn an experienced mechanic can probably do it in less than 5 minutes....it is a piece of cake job...the mechanics in your town must be total dumba$$es...the rear wires just pull off...how hard is that???hell i even changed my rear plugs with nothing more than a ratchet and an extension(no swivel or anything)and i didn't even remove my coil pack...took a few minutes...any mechanic that is scared to work on your engine must be stupid as hell...it really is an easy do it yourself task...
Originally posted by TDawg76:
Second, what kind of vaccuum lines and hoses can I look at to see if there is a leak or hole or something?
Most of these are black, flexible hoses, about the diameter of a pencil. There are several, and they connect to a lot of different places. See if you can find one that is dis-connected, or cracked, or split. See if you find a metal or plastic fitting, about half the diameter of a pencil, maybe 1/2 inch long, that looks like it should have a hose connected to, but is not connected to anything.
I've heard you can spray carburetor cleaner around the hoses, while the engine is running, and see if the engine speeds up. If so, the area being sprayed probably had a crack or split.
Hope some of this helps.
T,
I understand your concerns. Starting to Work on your own car can be very challenging 'cause your always afraid that you're going break something that will cost a million dollars to fix or worse permanently wreck your engine. But you can do it. Changing you spark plugs is fairly simple (even on the V-6). The toughest part is just getting at the rear plugs cause its a tight space and hard to see. You might not do it this time, but if you go to a mechanic, find one that will let you observe what they do and will answer questions.
Either way:
First go get the Haynes manual from your local autoparts store or ebay. (15.00 at store, 10.00 or less on ebay). This is an indispensible resource for repair and just general information.
Next get together a basic tool set: SAE and Metric wrenches, 40 piece socket set, lg and small flat head and phillips head screwdrivers, and a couple of pliers. Finally a toolbox. Total Cost: 100.00 Other tools you'll buy as you need 'em. My first tool set was a $30 150pc plastic case set.
Next, read through the Haynes manual, just to get a feel for some stuff. Work on the basic maintanence items. This will let you get a feel for working on the car and help you identify different parts of you car. Reading the manual close enough and working through the various explainaton of how things work will give you a good idea of just how things work and why a problem causes certain results.
Finally, the hardest part is getting up the guts to turn that wrench. I started my master shade tree mechanic qualifications in college when going to the repairs shop wasn't an option (no $$$). I've changed brakes, oil, gas, and air filters, plugs/wires, installed stereo equipment, and bunches of other stuff (most recently cleaning the EGR passage to the throttle body - saved 100's of $$$)
And this place is Great for help on just about everything.
Good luck
Thanks for the vote of confidence jezlukin!
I found a mechanic (friend of the family) who came out to the house and hooked his diagnostic tool into my car's computer and it was showing no codes. I figured it would not since the CEL is not on. He did however, tell me that one of the plugs is causing a cylinder to miss. He misted water onto the coil pack at the rear of the engine where the plugs hook up, and it lit up like July 4th! So, he is going to replace the plug wires (the plugs are new, practically) this weekend for a total cost, including Motorcraft plug wires of $135. I think that's fair since I was quoted $128.80 by Ford for a set of wires.
The ironic thing about your tool set suggestions is that I already have a tool box and a pretty nice set of tools going. However, I'm more of an academic and not very good at working with my hands...
Anyways, I'm going to watch him work since he is going to perform the service in my garage and maybe I'll learn a thing or two!
Thanks for the post, jezlukin...I'll let you know how things turn out.
TDawg...take it from me, you'll find you can do more than you expected, especially with the right tools and an experienced person helping show you the way. Good luck.
Man! I wish I'd seen this post when you had the problem to begin with. I had the same problem around that milage. Do you want to know what it is?
Coil pack.
I brought my car to the stealership, and they said it was either bad plugs/wires, or coild pack. Once the plugs/wires are replaced if it continues then it's a bad coil pack. I repalced the plus/wires, and no, they are really hard to do on the V6. It's sure a pain in the keister. Well, after the plugs/wires were replaced, it continuted. Then I replaced the coil pack, and bam! Fixed problem.
My car is at 175,000 miles later and she is still kicking. Since then I have had the spark plugs/wires replaced. Basic maintenance.
Good luck. Let me know what you find out.
at that mileage plug wires wont hurt though. I had the same fears and confusion you had. I bought a haynes manual, I read it, I learned. Try to watch your friends while they're working on there cars. you said you are academic, well the best place to learn is not in a book, but in real life situations. In your car sits lessons of combustion, electrical currents, aerodynamics, etc, etc... just take your time, do your homework, and have fun!!!!
BTW, the only things to worry about when changing plug wires 1. make sure the engine is cool, the back three ow! 2. DO 1 AT A TIME 3. push the boot down on the plug hard and straight, you should hear or feel the clip go all the way on. good luck!!