Hi all,
My car is giving me a lot of hesitation while accelerating through the lower RPM's (before secondary valves open). I had it into the dealer this morning and they just informed me that I need a new set of plug wires--the wires are arcing out. They said they didn't detect the hesitation when they drove it (not surprising)...but has anyone had this problem? They told me how much they wanted to replace them there and I said "no
thanks". Recommendations? On there now I've got the "Double Silicone" wires from Autozone, went on about 40k miles ago....seems like I could do better. I don't necessarily care to spend crazy cash on super duper shielded high performance stuff...just want a good set of wires that isn't going to sting my wallet too bad.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Steve
although I have a zetec I had this problem just a few months ago. one day I started getting alot of hesitation, or sputtering when trying to rev the engine. new plug wires fixed the problem. I beleive most people get the Ford motorsport 9mm wires, there was something about them being about $40 from someone, but I don't recall
You can get the ford motorsport wires for about $50 which is about the same as the AZ double silicones IIRC. The ford motorsports are 8mm so the covers wont fit back on the wire looms. (But show need covers?) They are built really well and will probably last 100K!
Try
http://www.bat.com or other places on the web.
my ford wires are 9mm (zetec) check out
www.batinc.net not ww
www.batinc.net not
www.bat.com (unless you think your car will run better with some fresh tobacco).
Well I swapped out the wires--no change. Better way to describe the problem...in any gear, accelerating through the lower (<3400) RPM range (easiest to detect in 4th gear, around 2000-2500), it almost feels like the car is bucking--erratic hesitation & studdering. As soon as it hits 3400 it smooths out and takes off. Why is it that mechanics can't seem to verify 90% of the problems I bring my car in for?
And what the heck is wrong with my car??
has the fuel filter replaced recently? that could possibly be the problem. Does it seem to get better/worse depending on the amount of fuel you have? If so, fuel pump could be a possibility.
-neal
Might be running rich prior to the secondaries opening and/or the plugs are marginal. I would check all the intake hoses for leaks and clean up the TB and EGR passages behind the TB if it hasn't been done. How are the fuel and air filters?
Have you considered the Throttle Position Senson? It is cheap to replace.
I have one on order for my 95 V6 ATX that has been having problems like this for many months. I have replaced the plugs, wires, coil pack and oxygen sensors, checked the EGR system and verified it being clean and functioning. The problem always goes away (for up to two weeks) and then always comes back again.
I will fill this forum in on whether this works or not but my theory is that the TPS can read incorrectly making the engine think the car is decelerating instead of accelerating. This would mean the engine is leaned out instead of getting more gas.
I guess it could also be the wiring. Hopefully not.
- Randall
im in the same boat- I was told that I need a new fuel pump - I said ok but well hold off a bit- I dont have the cash on hand to fix it-
but mines the very same way - almost like its down a cylinder or two below the secondaries right?
I have had this same problem for over a year now, and have replaced coil, plugs, and wires to no avail. But today...I think I have solved the problem.
I pulled the wire to the MAF sensor, on the recommendation of a friend and wise technician, on the suggestion that the mixture patterns that are learned by the car may be skewed if the MAF has gone bad. This can lean-out the mixture at lower RPMs and richen the mixture at higher RPMs. This seemed to explain my low RPM missing and hesitation, as well as my sub-par fuel economy around town. I don't pretend to understand how the stuff works, but it made sense to me.
Anyway, went to my car this morning and unplugged the MAF (this is supposed to default to a preset mixture program based on RPMs, not on the learned behavior). It worked! No more hesitation. So, I am going to try to clean out the MAF tonight. If that doesn't work, I'll pick up a new one.
Hope this helps!
PS: This also explains why the problem went away temorarily every time I worked on my car. Disconnecting the battery clears the memory for the mixture program. After a short while, the car would learn the bad mixture patterns again, and start the problem up again.
Gonna try that as soon as I get home! The plug/wire on top of the MAF right?
Yep. I have a 95 V6, so it may not be in exactly the same place, but there should only be one plug/harness attachment on it.
One caveat: My car idled rough with the MAF unplugged, so it probably isn't a permanent option. Good for testing, though.
Let me know if it works out for you.
Geoff
Thanks to everyone for providing this information. Just a quick question to pose. Have you noticed that the car starts bucking around an in between 40-45 MPH? Does it also get worse when put under load, like climbing a hill?
I am expercening a simmillar problem and was just wondering if you guys had any of these symptoms.
Thanks.
For me...any low rpm load will do it. In town in traffic...slow down then throttle back up...stumble/jerk.
Mine was anytime under load at low RPMs, but very exaggerated going uphill in a higher gear. Anything under 3000 RPM with a good dose of throttle was a bronco ride.
Geoff
Thanks guys. Sounds exactly like what I am getting. it was almost embarrasing to drive sometimes with anybody in the car or when trying to take someone off the light.
Will try the temp. fix of disconnecting the MAF to test. If this is the problem (hopefully), then I will give it a good cleaning, if not going to replace it.
Just looked this up on fordpartsonline.com for a 99 Contour.
Electrical, Powertrain Control, Mass Air Flow Sensor, Contour, Mystique, 2.0L $151.71 $88.75
Electrical, Powertrain Control, Mass Air Flow Sensor, Contour, Mystique, 2.5L $145.98 $85.40
Not too bad, considering how much Ford would charge to troubleshoot and "fix". Not to mention the time wasted in the Svc. Dept. Not bitter on the Ford Dealer, just speak from experience.
Thanks Again. Keep y'all posted on the status.
Have a similar problem, but I'm halfway to fixing it. You can read a summary of what I did
here.
Oh, and I didn't know about the unplugging the MAF trick. I may give that a shot at lunch and see what happens
Thanks for the info D Davis.
I have found some info on the MAF I figured we could use:
(Found this for an Explorer, but it should be very much the same).
When your engine is cool, remove the wiring clip from the side of the black plastic sensor part of the MAF aluminum body. To remove the MAF interior sensor wire, you will need a Security Star (Size T15 or T20) screwdriver or screwdriver bit for a power screwdriver. Remove the two security star-head screws and carefully remove the sensor. You will see the two sensor filaments…they look almost like the filaments on a light bulb. Carefully spray the filaments with an O2 safe carburetor cleaner, such as Gumout. Let it dry thoroughly. I help mine along with a careful blast or two of canned dry air. While it is drying carefully wipe the aluminum mount surface of the MAF body if there is any dust there, but be careful not to get dust in the mount hole. When the sensor is dry, replace the sensor back in the MAF body and secure with the security star-head screws. These don't need to be torqued down, just simply hand tight. Replace the wiring clip. Then start up your engine. You should have solved any bogging or missing problems. My flat idle spot is ancient history
Just remembered..when I pulled the spark plugs and showed Terry Haines, he commented on that they looked like I was running lean...which supports the MAF causing it to read lean...
radioactive,
Thanks for the research on cleaning the MAF. I hope to try it tonight.
Geoff
Did you do the easy obvious check - are the secondaries closing or are they stuck open ???
O-k...went home last night. Unplugged MAF lead. Started car...ran fine!! Restarted car 4-5 times...still ran fine. So I reset PCM, and unplugged MAF before initiating the relearning process. Allowed car to idle for 5 minutes with unplugged MAF to insure switch back to default settings. Then did the following (per another thread):
1. Start car
2. Let it idle to warm up (~5 minutes)
3. Take it for a leisurely drive at various rpms accelerating & decerating (3-5 minutes)
4. Get on the car hard at various rpms accelerating & decerating (3-5 minutes)
5. Stop the car & let it idle
6. Turn on the A/C (2 minutes or until idle settles down)
7. Repeat step 3 (A/C is cut off at WOT so step 4 in unnecessary)
8. Stop car and let idle a minute or so
9. Shut off
The result? Car runs waaaay better. Still has slight stumble, but a lot less and only under heavy load (say 1500rpm in 3rd). I'm going to do the spark-plug hunt thing this weekend, and will replace the SP Wires next week (I was going to anyways). But actually going thru the procedures for the PCM to relearn properly gave me a car that runs great!! Except for the intermittant stumble, she pulls harder now.
Great advice!
Thanks for all the details mcgainer. That is excellent that it worked for you. I didn't get a chance to do mine yet, but will this weekend. Did you clean out the MAF?
these all sound like great ideas and I'll try them asap...the only concern is that I already tried resetting the computer, with no discernable change (even in the short term). Still, the MAF sounds like the next thing to check out. Thanks all!
I didn't...but probably should. I did about 4 months ago, but running an oiled filter (AFE) I probably should again. Next weekend I'm going to clean the UIM/LIM, and since it'll be apart, I'll probably do the TB and MAF (as well as the th fix!).
I would highly advise everyone to follow those procedures for PCM relearning...very happy "free" gains!
mcgainer--did you plug the MAF back in before starting the numbered steps or did you do those without the MAF?
Thanks,
Steve
Originally posted by mcgainer:
O-k...went home last night. Unplugged MAF lead. Started car...ran fine!! Restarted car 4-5 times...still ran fine. So I reset PCM, and unplugged MAF before initiating the relearning process. Allowed car to idle for 5 minutes with unplugged MAF to insure switch back to default settings. Then did the following (per another thread):
1. Start car
2. Let it idle to warm up (~5 minutes)
3. Take it for a leisurely drive at various rpms accelerating & decerating (3-5 minutes)
4. Get on the car hard at various rpms accelerating & decerating (3-5 minutes)
5. Stop the car & let it idle
6. Turn on the A/C (2 minutes or until idle settles down)
7. Repeat step 3 (A/C is cut off at WOT so step 4 in unnecessary)
8. Stop car and let idle a minute or so
9. Shut off
The result? Car runs waaaay better. Still has slight stumble, but a lot less and only under heavy load (say 1500rpm in 3rd). I'm going to do the spark-plug hunt thing this weekend, and will replace the SP Wires next week (I was going to anyways). But actually going thru the procedures for the PCM to relearn properly gave me a car that runs great!! Except for the intermittant stumble, she pulls harder now.
Great advice!
I unplugged MAF and did steps 1&2. Plugged it in and started all over again at 1. Did this to insure MAF was running default prior to learning.
And, of course, let us know if it comes back after a week or two.
I have tried all of the above (except removing my upper and lower intakes) over the last seven months and nothing has worked except for going to different plugs.
I sometimes got 2 weeks of great driving after a change, but it always has come back.
- Randall
Where can I get Security Star screwdrivers?? Ugh...Sears doesn't have 'em. Any ideas?
Thx,
Steve
Originally posted by radioactive:
Thanks for the info D Davis.
I have found some info on the MAF I figured we could use:
(Found this for an Explorer, but it should be very much the same).
When your engine is cool, remove the wiring clip from the side of the black plastic sensor part of the MAF aluminum body. To remove the MAF interior sensor wire, you will need a Security Star (Size T15 or T20) screwdriver or screwdriver bit for a power screwdriver. Remove the two security star-head screws and carefully remove the sensor. You will see the two sensor filaments…they look almost like the filaments on a light bulb. Carefully spray the filaments with an O2 safe carburetor cleaner, such as Gumout. Let it dry thoroughly. I help mine along with a careful blast or two of canned dry air. While it is drying carefully wipe the aluminum mount surface of the MAF body if there is any dust there, but be careful not to get dust in the mount hole. When the sensor is dry, replace the sensor back in the MAF body and secure with the security star-head screws. These don't need to be torqued down, just simply hand tight. Replace the wiring clip. Then start up your engine. You should have solved any bogging or missing problems. My flat idle spot is ancient history
Originally posted by engineerpaulson:
Where can I get Security Star screwdrivers?? Ugh...Sears doesn't have 'em. Any ideas?
Sears does carry them. If you go the their web page (http://www.sears.com), you can find them if you search for the word "Torx".
Aren't MAFs "tuned"? If you remove them from their housing doesn't it potentially screw them up?
If you remove the air cleaner housing (which includes the MAF), you can spray some cleaner in there without removing the element at all.
Or am I being overly paranoid?
- Randall
They sensor element is inside the sampling tube and thus protected from direct frontal assault. It's best to pull it out, but it is delicate, so be easy on it.
OK...my car is having the same problems most of you here have discussed. It is the 2.5 liter engine. At 100,000 miles I had Ford do a tune-up: they changed the spark plugs, fuel filter, air filter, changed coolant, replaced the water pump, serpentine belt, transmission fluid, O2 sensor, idle control valve, and also the MAF sensor (but NOT the plug wires for some reason). All of a sudden my car started the bucking/hesitation/stumbling. I went ahead and replaced the fuel and air filters to see if that helped...it did not. The car only has 130,000 miles on it now - the plugs and sensors should be fine...so, my question is could the PLUG WIRES be the problem? They are 7 years old and have 130,000 miles on them. I admit I know nothing about cars...and this is bugging the piss out of me. I am a senior in college (a.k.a poor) and I need this car to last another 6 months at least until I graduate! Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. BTW, the check engine light is NOT on to indicate any emissions/sensor troubles, and the injectors were cleaned during the tune-up also. Thanks!
Originally posted by TDawg76:
They are 7 years old and have 130,000 miles on them.
Replace them...and smile when you feel how smooth the engine runs. I believe most people are getting about half that many miles on a set of plug wires.
Originally posted by TDawg76:
OK...my car is having the same problems most of you here have discussed. It is the 2.5 liter engine. At 100,000 miles I had Ford do a tune-up: they changed the spark plugs, fuel filter, air filter, changed coolant, replaced the water pump, serpentine belt, transmission fluid, O2 sensor, idle control valve, and also the MAF sensor (but NOT the plug wires for some reason). All of a sudden my car started the bucking/hesitation/stumbling. I went ahead and replaced the fuel and air filters to see if that helped...it did not. The car only has 130,000 miles on it now - the plugs and sensors should be fine...so, my question is could the PLUG WIRES be the problem? They are 7 years old and have 130,000 miles on them. I admit I know nothing about cars...and this is bugging the piss out of me. I am a senior in college (a.k.a poor) and I need this car to last another 6 months at least until I graduate! Any help would be GREATLY appreciated. BTW, the check engine light is NOT on to indicate any emissions/sensor troubles, and the injectors were cleaned during the tune-up also. Thanks!
Try copper plugs and see if it solves the problem ($5 from Champion). It did on mine. I truly believe that there is a bad batch of Autolite/Motorcraft plugs out there that is causing all these problems.
- Randall
I cleaned the MAF (soaked the filaments in a cap full of Gumout carb cleaner), let them dry, reinstalled, reset the computer and went through the learning process posted by mcgainer. Seemed to be awesome--big improvement & more power all around...but then it went quickly back downhill and seems worse than before. Did I do something wrong?
Steve
I pulled my plug wires and guess what? Found one frayed near the boot. Put the Ford 9mms on witht the NGKs...no stumble. For kicks...reinstalled MotorCraft AWSF-32pps...and...still no stumble. So I guess my problem was in pulling the wires off the plugs I exposed some wire and it was short firing into the cylider head.
I was able to get a chance to look at the car this weekend and would like to report my findings. Took the MAF apart, by removing the two security star screws, and gave the elements a few shots of throttle body cleaner (Gumout). Make sure you let them dry and watch the O-Ring for proper placement. I had taken the intake hoses off to do this, but it is not neccessary at all. The main reason I took the hoses off was to get easier access to the throttle body.
The TB was very, very dirty being that it has never been cleaned before. Shame, Shame. I have 127,000 on the car now.(Yes I drive a lot) Cleaned the TB out really well using the same cleaner. although I wanted to, I didn't remove it, because the parts shop didn't have a replacement gasket. I was able to hold the butterfly valve open and soak it with the cleaner. Used my finger and a couple brushes to clean it all up. Would be much easier, better, and quicker, to remove it.
Anyway, doing this has semmed to have solved my problem of the stuttering and hesitating around 40-45 MPH under load.
Also bought a new set of Bosch Double Platnums, but I haven't installed them yet. Want to drive it around some more and see if the hesitation problem comes back.
Hope this helps everyone who has this problem.
PS: I replaced the wires about 25,000 miles ago.