gonna attack the EGR system this weekend, advice??

For about 2 months now I've had a CEL with code 401...EGR flow insufficient. Replaced the DPFE sensor under warranty & had the EGR system all cleaned out, but still a CEL with code 401. I've been told that some of the EGR piping can get a buildup of crud that's hard to get out so I'm going through the EGR system myself...anyone have any advice before I go crazy with my wrenches & torches?

I ran some mechanics wire through mine and then soaked it with carb cleaner.

Did they take off the throttle body and clean out the passages that are exposed? I think there are three that enter where the throttle body meets the intake.

Originally posted by Huntervf:
For about 2 months now I've had a CEL with code 401...EGR flow insufficient.

It seems that I have the same car (96 Contour V6 SE ATX) and am having the exact same problem (P0401). So far, I have replaced:

- EGR valve
- EVR (EGR vacuum regulator)
- DPFE (differential pressure feedback EGR).

I still get the code though.

I have also checked most of the plastic/rubber vacuum hoses and they all seem fine.

If you find a solution, please post it.

Originally posted by Huntervf:
...had the EGR system all cleaned out...

How did they do that? Which parts did they clean?

Originally posted by 2X95SEs:
I ran some mechanics wire through mine and then soaked it with carb cleaner.

What is "mechanics wire" and where can I get it?

Where did you "run" the wire through?

Originally posted by spgoode:
Did they take off the throttle body and clean out the passages that are exposed? I think there are three that enter where the throttle body meets the intake.

I just took the TB (throttle body) off today and looked behind it (into the UIM (upper intake manifold). I did not see much buildup and did not see any "EGR passage" that people talk about.

There were three small passages that enter behind the throttle body, but none of them were for the EGR system. There was a passage that came from the bottom of the UIM which seems to come from the evap hose. There were another two passages that came from the top of the UIM that seemed to come from the two black vacuum lines on top of the UIM. And all of theses passages were not clogged up.

I stuck my fingers into the UIM and felt around and could not find any "EGR passage". I even stuck a mechanics mirror into the UIM to see if I could find the elusive "EGR passage", to no avail.

Anyone have any suggestions???

The egr passage is 'cast in' to the manifold & exits behind the t/body via the three holes you mention.the other passage is cast in & runs from the ISC valve...the object of both of these is to distribute idle speed air or egr evenly to both banks, hence the cast in channels from the 'remote' mounted valves...which is the only position they could be mounted for clearence.The egr tube itself has been known to clog in the area of the 'necked' venturi, between the DPFE sample/pressure hose take offs.....

dude, I have the same exact problem at least thats what the mechanic said.

his bill was 245 to change the EGR Valve. Right now he removed the tube or something.

can I still drive the car around w/o the tube or whatever its called? I need to go about 80 miles tomorrow. Everything SOUNDS normal. Whats the EGR for anyways?

Sorry for another question in a question maybe I should have made another post. thx

Originally posted by Terry Haines:
The egr tube itself has been known to clog in the area of the 'necked' venturi, between the DPFE sample/pressure hose take offs...

Is there any way to clean the EGR tube venturi from above (w/ the EGR valve off) while it is still attached to the lower manifold???

Best is to take it right off.Sandblasting has been known to clear it with a hp wash after, most cases a new/later tube cures it....

Can the EGR tube be replaced w/o putting the car on a lift? All I have is a jack and jack stands. Can you get to the bottom of the EGR tube and remove it from the lower manifold with just a jack?

Can the entire egr be removed and the a plate put over the open spot? And crimp the hose? Just curious. I know someone with a Honda that did it and says it's worth 3-4 hp. Iv'e heard of guys doing this to their Mustangs as well. The only reason I as is I have the same code as well. -For different reasons.(Sparco st brace rubbed a hole in the top of my egr.

) And yes I know I mounted it backwards..I was afraid I was going to brake one of the a/c lines mounting it the other way.

Originally posted by Terry Haines:
Best is to take it right off.Sandblasting has been known to clear it with a hp wash after, most cases a new/later tube cures it....

Not an easy operation to undertake with engine in car. Getting access to bottom nut nearly impossible and if you get it off, then getting it on again is a PITA. You can access from below (I did), but little space to swing wrench. Best tried from above with crowsfoot, removing coil pack to obtain visibility.

I removed mine at 60,000 miles, tube was as clean as a whistle.

If anyone wants to see if venturi is restricted I would suggest a small bottle brush or similar device be inserted from above. Due to bends in EGR-to-manifold tube, venturi not visible even when tube is removed.

p.s. Driver's front wheel on ramp gave sufficient clearance for this work.

Originally posted by Brandon Mendenhall:
Can the entire egr be removed and the a plate put over the open spot? And crimp the hose? Just curious.

No need to, simply pull EGR vacuum hose and seal it and the nipple on valve with tape.

This is not a recommendation, simply a how-to, since I believe performance will deteriorate without EGR system.

Well...so far so good. In the past everytime the OBD was reset the CE light would come back within 5 miles; I'm now at 15 with no light. After doing some exploratory work, here's a pic of what I found:

Holy plugged passages batman! These are the fabled 3 EGR passages that lead directly to the EGR valve, and obviously mine were completely plugged up. In fact it was so plugged up that I didn't even recognize the passages until I sprayed some Berrymans into the EGR passage behind the EGR valve itself & it started to ooze out the middle TB passage (the other two were 100% blocked.) And I also wouldn't have found all this buildup if I hadn't carefully removed the TB gasket. I spent the better part of an hour cleaning this up as well as digging out the rest of the passageway up into the UIM as best I could with Q-tips.

I also removed the EGR valve itself, clean/inspected it as well as most of the surrounding lines & the main EGR tube, and it all looked pretty good. Apparently when my local shop said "the EGR system looks really clean" they meant the actual valve, but in all honesty I would have never noticed these three passages unless I'd have either A. sprayed a bunch of carb cleaner into the main EGR passage like I did, or B. removed the TB gasket.

In any case, the CE has yet to return...hopefully this took care of the problem. I've also noticed that the bad sulfur smell I had under moderate/hard acceleration is gone too, guess my cats weren't bad after all

If the CE light comes back on I'll post up here, otherwise I'd say this problem is CLOSEFILE. And one last thing...if you do this little bit of maintainece, make SURE you get all the hoses hooked back up. A 2.5 will make some horrendous sucking noises and run like stale poop if you forget to hook up the PCV system

Thanks for the pic and post. BTW how many miles on the car?

Originally posted by Huntervf:
Holy plugged passages batman! These are the fabled 3 EGR passages that lead directly to the EGR valve, and obviously mine were completely plugged up. In fact it was so plugged up that I didn't even recognize the passages until I sprayed some Berrymans into the EGR passage behind the EGR valve itself & it started to ooze out the middle TB passage (the other two were 100% blocked.) And I also wouldn't have found all this buildup if I hadn't carefully removed the TB gasket.

All I can say about your message is AWESOME.

I also took off my TB this past weekend, but could not find the elusive EGR passage that everyone was talking about. If it weren't for your message, I would probably be replacing the EGR pipe in the near future.

Here is a picture of the UIM behind the TB on my car:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/37207779/47528989JLOiXi

I thought that those three areas at the front of the UIM opening were just indentations in the aluminum cast!

I can't tell you how thankful I am that you wrote your message. If I could figure out how to give you 5 stars I would.

Glad I was able to help out. I guess it just shows that if you want something right you gotta do it yourself. It kinda peeves me; my shop said everything was clean & thought I had a 'puter problem. I ALMOST went to the local Ford dealer for a diagnosis...good thing I decided to check things out on my own first. Ah well, I didn't pay my shop for their diagnosis anyway.

BTW, my 'tour is closing in on 97k.