For the love of God. - CEG Archives

Could it be the upper and lower intake manifold gaskets? I believe I had the same codes and that is what mine ended up being. Had nothing to do with the o2 sesnors.

meh I was thinking that myself, but I don't want to pull the intake manifolds apart right now. But my car is really acting up. I noticed today I only went 145 miles and I'm on quarter tank. I really hope the PCM isn't dumping in fuel because its too lean. Cause then I'll be buying headers...

I had the same problem. I was going thru ALOT of gas. Now that I got the intake manifold gaskets taken care of (and the DPFE sensor that was also causing the CEL) my gas mileage has gone up dramatically. (can't count this week cause of the snow

)

You know before I thought it might be the DFPE and alot of people were telling me it might not been and don't change it. That was when I went through and redid my intake and replaced the IAC, which was wearing out. Maybe it was the DFPE all along, because if the IAC has been trying to compensate for a failing emission system It would have been over worked. lol I don't mind fixing the parts or spending the money. I just want to fix the problem!

and last night since I couldn't sleep I laid awake thinking.

How can you test the working of the EGR valve? Would a disfunctional EGR make the car lean and or stall? Its probably on the site, but I have classes in 10 minutes and won't be back till 2:30, and I know you guys will be crusing the site while you're at work and such. lol Thanks in Advance.

currently possiblies list:
-Intake Gaskets(manifolds)
-DFPE sensor
-EGR valve itself.

counted out:
-IAC
-intake leaks besides manifolds
-Battery, plugs, wires are all new

Like magic:

"EGR TEST" search terms

apply vacuum to the top of the egr in the first step, follow the directions as it says.

Thanks Ray.

I can't wait to get home friday to start fixing things. I'm going to check the EGR to see if its working.

Also I read down that post and it said to unplug the MAF sensor? isn't that bad? Or does the computer drop the to a default to keep the car running?

Another Q, How do you replace the EGR valve? Does it come off the header with the pipe? Or does the pipe stay on, and the egr come off?

Do you have an after market filter on it? I know I got that code when I put a freshly cleaned and re-oiled K&N on my wifes car. After a few months the code showed up and I was getting pinging under hard acceleration. I cleaned the MAF put the old paper filter back in and didn't get that code again. But around the same time I was also getting the EGR code and changed out the DFPE. If your DFPE sensor isn't functioning right you should have the excessive flow code. Still haven't heard of someones EGR actually stop working it has always been the DFPE. Good luck.

Originally posted by ZeroHour:
...

Another Q, How do you replace the EGR valve? Does it come off the header with the pipe? Or does the pipe stay on, and the egr come off?

Remove two bolts on to the intake manifold, then a tube nut to the tube. The tube should "stand" on its own after removing the EGR valve.

The other end of the tube is connected to the exhaust manifold on top of the Bank 1 Pre-cat. Don't mess with it.

Edit. In this link, you should be able to see the tube nut just below the hose clamp for the 45 degree bend IAC hose.

http://img39.imageshack.us/my.php?image=airplenum20ry.jpg

I did put on a K&N Filter, but this has been a persistant problem and I had it with the old filter, and the new one.

Can't wait to get home and work on the Tour. I am getting my baby ready for some cruisin over spring break!!

Well took the car for a decent ride (12 miles) and it was fine for the most part. It actually ran better then I remember on the path I drove, which was my old commute to work. The Idle is still a bit low running ~ 600 RPM. I'm not quite sure why.

But just for a reference. There are 2 ways to test the EGR. Put on the hose wil the car is off. Then try to blow and suck, as oppose to only blow. I couldn't blow through mine, but If i would suck on the hose I could hear a movement of whatever the valve is made of. It would "unpop" as soon as I would stop sucking on it. So I can definately rule out the EGR.

Have you unplugged the MAF yet? I'm thinkin' maybe a dirty MAF.

No not yet. I want to wait till day light to go pulling wires off and driving around. lol

Edit: If I remember correctly, if you have an exhaust leak, this can cause low idle right? I'm bolting my trubendz back together tonight because the god damn tubing has a stress point and the pipe pulled out from the clamp tube...

Saturday:

Well I got my exhaust back together. I added an intermediate tube section to extend the pipe ~1 inch so the won't pop apart anymore.

I checked Over the intake, tried to tighten some clamps, but nothing was loose.

Then backed out the car, and did a little wash and wax. So pretty and clean! haha

Then went for a 25 mile drive Saturday afternoon. Here is an oddity though:

Before going for my drive, I filled up on gas. I COULDN'T PUT GAS IN THE TANK! The pump would kick off as soon as I tried to pump gas. The tank was not full because my guage was on quarter.

I ended up having to hold the nozzle from the pump really close to the top of the neck. I just stopped filling before it came close. The station was moderately busy so it wouldn't be a high pressure from the pump. I've used the same gas station all the time and never had problems before.

So is there some kind of pressure valve in the fuel system? I always thought the air just pushed back up the neck as you filled with fuel, but if I'm wrong, could this be why my car is running lean and have a crappy idle?

The drive after the gas station went fine and the CEL codes didn't come back. The car idled around 900rpm after driving the distance as well.

Then this morning I went to go meet some friends and pick up some stuff at the grocery store and my idle was doing its old 600 rpm trick and car was very close to stalling.

I am so very confused

Originally posted by ZeroHour:
...Before going for my drive, I filled up on gas. I COULDN'T PUT GAS IN THE TANK! The pump would kick off as soon as I tried to pump gas. The tank was not full because my guage was on quarter.

I ended up having to hold the nozzle from the pump really close to the top of the neck. I just stopped filling before it came close. The station was moderately busy so it wouldn't be a high pressure from the pump. I've used the same gas station all the time and never had problems before.....

This happens to us every now and then. Try filling up the first thing in the morning instead of after a half hour drive.

Read this.
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=trouble&Number=1041488&Forum=trouble&Words=gas%20tank%20fill&Match=And&Searchpage=1&Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=1041459&Search=true#Post1041488

No, I drove to the gas station first. Then went for a drive.

I read that article, what Happens if that little flap stays open? say when the fuel is pulling gas out of the tank? Could that make a lean code? I know you can get codes if you leave your cap off.

It just never stops amazing me.

Car is running funny again. I put in a new PCV tonight, the old one was crap, but the new one made no difference.

The old one had fresh oil on/in it. I'm going to assume thats kinda normal but since I only drove 7-8 miles to advance auto and back it seems like there was a lot of oil in the little bugger.

Could this be a sign of other problems?

Also if the hose on my PCV valve is wore out and has seen better days, could this cause an air leak that would effect idle and cause double lean codes?

Edit: everything not check from originally list is here

Fuel System:
�?· Low fuel pressure or running out of fuel (fuel pump, filter, fuel supply line restrictions)
�?· Vapor recovery system (VMV)

Induction System:
�?· MAF contamination (I need to clean it again, but didn't solve problem last time)
�?· Vacuum leaks (I haven't found any)
�?· PCV system concern

EGR System:
Nope, new gasket, checked egr and funtional

Base Engine:
�?· Exhaust leaks before or near the HO2S
(exhaust looked good so did Y pipe, cat and others,)

Powertrain Control System:
�?· PCM concern

My own thoughts:
1) DPFE sensor is screwy, but not sending a code
2) Alternater could be crapping out, maybe bearings inside
3) NEW THOUGHT! What if my TPS was out of wack, it could explain odd idle because IAC would think the throttle to be open.
4) NEW THOUGHT! Old hose on PCV seems like it might not be "air tight"

Fixed/Good condition:
-New IAC
-new IAC, TB, EGR gaskets
-Battery terminals good
-Battery ~1 year old
-no air leaks that I can find after MAF
-New plugs and wires(Autolite D.Plat with 8mm Auto wires)
-Fuel Filter ~ 6months ago
-Oil was changed over Xmas break with mobile 1 and purolator pure one filter
-New belt for waterpump(it was sqeaking when cold and when car stalled)
-Cleaned the EGR passages ~year ago when CEL came on.

Symtoms:
Bad idle ~600 rpms, will stall when very cold
Bad idle + turning on defroster = stall
Idles ~800-900 when warmed up
Lights dim when rpms fall to the 600 mark or lower
Rev Limitered kicked on @ 4k RPM the other day(not sure on that one)
Battery light goes on nearing 5k

Mods:
My Hood
K&N Filter with Ebay Intake pipes
Trubendz Exhaust
Aiwa headunit(doubt it would cause problems, but my issue seems electrical)

Well thats a good summary for anyone just checking in. lol

Originally posted by ZeroHour:
....Also if the hose on my PCV valve is wore out and has seen better days, could this cause an air leak that would effect idle and cause double lean codes?

Yes.

I've got the same codes. Have you taken a can of carb cleaner or brake cleaner and sprayed around for a vacuum leak? Mine ended up being one of the two vacuum lines that go into the UIM. I broke that tube off before and got a new one, and I believe I broke the little o-ring around it as well. When I hit it with carb cleaner, it stalled out the engine. Thats how you'll find the leak.

I'm betting vacuum leak, which would suck because you've bought all kinds of other stuff trying to fix it.

Good Luck "Zero Hour"
I've had the same problem for months as well. How is your gas mileage? Mine is about 19 mpg.
I haven't tried the DPFE sensor yet myself. I do know my ERG solonoid is stuck open.
I had two different techs check for vacuum leaks-no go.
I've checked for it myself 5 times with no sucess.
My 95 Zetec has a new:
IAC valve
PCV
Plugs
Wires
Coil
The list goes on and on.
I might soon give up and take it to FORD.
OH yes, did I mention no CEL's?
Unreal.

Not everything I bought was on trying to fix it. plugs and wires were due. Not so much wires, but the plugs for one were single plats, and they were shot to [censored]. My original Idle problem was the IAC. It wouldn't work until the motor was warm. I had to stay on the gas until the engine warmed up. When I replace the IAC problem gone.

I just check the PCV and found it to be in need of replacing.

The EGR gasket was like 2 bucks...

The Waterpump belt was crap.

I really haven't spent money where it wasn't due.

I do need to check the vac lines on the top of the manifold. I go back to school tomorrow and I'm only on right now because I'm taking a break from school work.

I'll have to wait until next week.

Yep, same problem for 9+ months. I have done everything suggested on the boards with the exception of UIM rebuild. I'm hoping the gurus see this thread and have some more ideas

Here's my list to add to the others:

New:
IAC valve
PCV
Plugs
Wires
Coil
hoses with clamps on every end
EGR
Spark plugs (last month)
Fuel Filter
New 02 Sensors, all of them
etc, etc, etc

cleaned MAF a billion times, just today I sprayed an entire can of Carb Cleaner around UIM, hoses, looking for leaks. Not even a stutter...

Car runs great, idles low occasionally, but never stalls. All the lights dim frequently (low RPMs or gunning it).

I would like to know if anyone has had this code from a fuel system issue? My car has really low miles, but I've never changed the fuel pump. It's really responsive when revved, but seems to not have the power it did when I had my super chip installed. (took it out 2 mnths back to ensure it wasn't causing the code) So, any fuel problems caused this code? What about dimming lights? TIA

Does the battery charge light come one at all?

For the dimming lights, check battery and alternator.
Battery test. Engine off, lights on for one minute. Then voltage should be 12 to 12.5.

Alternator test. Engine running, voltage across battery terminals should be 14 to 14.5.

In addition check wiring from battery to ground and battery to alternator.

There are also some wires which go under the battery.

Originally posted by SetiRich:
Ok, it's 2.5 years later, and I had the problem again...bye-the-way, I fixed it the first time...

There is a small black wire that loops up between the battery & the air filter box. This small wire attaches to a connector at one end, and seems to follow the "main" positive wire to where-ever it goes...haven't followed it.

The end that connects to the connector...is in with a group of wires that comes off the "secondary" positive terminal...this is sort of an extension to the main terminal. Both the pos & neg have these "secondary" connection posts...I guess because they needed more places to connect things close to the battery.

Anyway, the small black wire keeps coming out of the connector end. It's a PIA to get at...you have to remove the battery & battery box. Last time it just seemed to stick in there, so I left it. This time, I'm taking the battery stuff out and fixing it "for good".

I figure this must be something going to the solinoid, since there is no clicking or anything when this is out...and all light's, are great. New battery too...whenever it just doesn't start, I push it back into the connector & off I go for another 5-6 months. Guess it's nice weather again so time to fix it right.

Rich

I've never seen the battery light (except when all the lights come on at start up) I checked the voltage today and think it's ok. I'm gonna check the alternator tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestions. Any thoughts on the lean codes?

I'm having very similar issues. I've had a lean code for one of the banks only, and one of the O2 sensors from the same bank. I then cleared the codes, and drove for a full day before getting another one. The code then said I was getting too much air through my intake, which basically means I'm running lean still. I will go through and check my intake for any leaks, and clean the MAF. But I have a feeling it's something else. Come to think of it, this happened after checking my oil...I can only hope that is the problem.

After chasing down vacuum leaks, etc. I finally got rid of the lean codes when I blasted the injectors with tons of cleaner. Injectors that are slightly dirty will not deliver the fuel it needs. This will make the engine knock a bit too because lean mixtures detonate instead of producing a smooth flame travel. My car will once again run on 87 without fussing. I used 2 cans of B-12 at once and one more later when I noticed it was helping.

please give me details on how to clean the injectors. I am desperate and will gladly try it!!!

Thanks

Alright, this is gonna sound funny, but, does it look like your oil pan seal is leaking. I had the exact same codes, replaced the leaking oil pan gasket, and they are history. If the seal is bas enough, it would equate to the "oil dip stick improperly seated."

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by Jay Starling:
Alright, this is gonna sound funny, but, does it look like your oil pan seal is leaking. I had the exact same codes, replaced the leaking oil pan gasket, and they are history. If the seal is bas enough, it would equate to the "oil dip stick improperly seated."

Hope this helps.

That's actually one thing that I haven't checked! I'll take a good look in the daylight tomorrow and reply back with the results. Thanks for the idea!

Well, it doesn't appear that the oil pan is leaking. I did the B12 in the intake idea, and while it significantly increased power/responsiveness, the CELs are still there. Going to do the UIM rebuild pretty soon. If that fails, does anyone have any other ideas?

well, i did a tune up and was looking more closely under the car for leaks. Turns out the oil pan gasket is definitely blown. (couldn't see it from the front of the car, but on the side it's leaking below the timing belts.) so how hard is it to change? I know the y pipe will have to come off, but do i need to buy anything else besidesthe oil pan gasket? tia

lol Nice hi-jacking of my post.

Anyway. If that solves your problem let me know. I haven't gotten any time to work on my tour. I've just been driving it the way it is. I just really haven't had any spare time. College = Death to sanity.

You'll need a 13 MM wrench, deep well sockets, LOTS of PB Blaster (or equivalent) for the Y pipe bolts. You'll need the 13 MM wrench for the bolt between the engine and the subfame by the dampener. I actually didn't pull the Y pipe, I unbolted the Y from the precats and supported it at about a 15 to 20 degree angle. You can't just let it hang or you will risk breaking the flex tube (if you have one). Whole process took me a day, but I took my good sweet time and cleaned the pan, and really enjoyed working on the car. I'm one of those sicko's that does car repair as a hobby anyway. If I would have been trying just to get it done, it probably would have taken me about 2 ~ 3 hours. I can not stress enough that you HAVE to get the old gasket material off of the pan and the engine block. I have seen lots of folks not do that and then the new seal leaks right away.... Carb cleaner and a rag works wonders on old gaskets.

BTW, it looks like the oil was getting up on the O2 sensors. Once I cleaned the O2 sensors by wiping them down with simple green and fixed the leak, walla, no more codes.

awsome post, thanks for the info! I plan on completing it next weekend, and will post the results.

thanks again