Weird problems caused by wiring??

Originally posted by CSVT#49:
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,... but weird enough the buzzing when I hit the window switches is now gone? This is starting to weird me out. I don't understand how these remote systems could be tied into these wires.

What schematis are you using?
Looking at my 96 "Electrical and vacuum trobleshooting manual", it shows the ignition relay which is located under the dash. This relay is tied into other systems including the windows. The buzzing you heard was possibly the relay chattering. You repairing the wires at the coil area fixed it.

Originally posted by Rager:
Measure voltage drop. => Measure voltage across the battery, then between battery -positive- and (let's say) the trans case -ground-.

Well after measuring the voltage drop I can't tell that anything is wrong. Before starting the car the voltage across the battey was 12.11v. When the car was running it was measuring 14.24v so the alternator is working correctly. When the car was shut off the voltage across the battery showed 13.26v and when measuring between the positive terminal to the intake showed 13.26v as well. I also measured from the positive terminal to the brake portioning valve and got a reading of 13.26v again so no abnormal readings there. According to this the circuit is ok.

Also for $hits and giggles I started my brothers early production 98 Contour GL and tested to see if his headlights and interior lights would dim when hitting the power window switches. His lights acted the same as mine. I'm not sure if his headlights dim when his ABS activates, but he does have a huge audio system in his car. He tells me that his headlights dim with the bass everytime his sub hits too so maybe this is a bad comparison.

If anyone else wants to see if there car does this as well... all I am doing is starting the car turning the headlights on and then hitting up on the drivers side window switch. Maybe this is just the way the system acts, but it doesn't seem as if it should do this.

Momentary dim with power window operation is normal, brake lights application may dim a touch. Car voltage is not perfectly regulated. My Dad's 2003 Toyota has a flicker effect in the dome light if the engine is on. I notoced it because it flickered more than my car. The battery charge level will affect load, regulation too, and alternator load is high after starting the car. It is nice to have another Contour handy to compare quirks

Originally posted by FavoriteMystaque:
It is nice to have another Contour handy to compare quirks

Tell me about it. I have my brothers early 98 and my dads 98.5, unfortunately they are both non-SVT cars so somethings are not the same. One of which is the fuse box I've noticed.

Alternator? FYI
read on

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=trouble&Number=1043318&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

Interesting. My alternator is working as it should. I verified that much with the voltage drop tests.

I'm interested with this wiring fix though. The one mentioned in that post. Did someone ever do a How-To on this? I don't remember seeing it anywhere. I will do it if I end up performing this though.

They mention cutting the red wire and running it to the nut of the thick cable running back to the start/battery. Where does that red wire go to in the harness? Here is what I'm talking about:

1. cut red wire from 3 wire plug from alternator.
2. extend the red wire STILL HANGING from the connector to the main CHARGING wire.
3. the red wire going into the harness is no longer used. TAPE IT UP!!

Heres a Pic of the final wiring. The PINK wire is your new extension.

AGAIN, i cant take credit for this, and yeah i really feel for all of us who have replaced the alternator and did not see any benefit.

I'm 99.9999% sure that wire they have you cutting is connected to the battery or somewhere close to it and is connected to the regulator so it senses the voltage at the battery.

The modification has the wiring modified so the regulator senses the voltage at the output terminal of the alternator.

Why was it done that way from the factory? The wire between the output terminal of the alternator and the battery has voltage drop depending on the amount of current running through it. Sensing the voltage at the battery allows the alternator to compensate for this voltage drop.

It might be worth the effort to run a new wire from the battery back to the regulator (the 3-terminal connector). Or at least disconnecting the old wire so it doesn't short out.

You are 100% correct, but as to why they did not do it in the first place, you could also ask why they did not perceive that wiring gets old and resistance goes up, thus causing a higher voltage drop across the same wire. You can also wonder why they chose cheap wiring. either way Ford knows about it and thats why they had a TSB.

You can just run a new wire, but why would you? If FORD already knows the fix.

What I read (I believe it's the same TSB you're talking about) said to run a new wire.

I know why it was done the way it was in the first place.

I re-read the TSB and it seems pretty clear that it says the problem is in the wire between the battery and the alternator output terminal, not the reference wire.

If the reference wire had a high enough resistance and if the regulator pulled enough current through the reference wire to cause a severe voltage drop, it could cause this problem. But I do not think that the regulator draws much current through the reference wire--it likely only draws a very tiny amount (milliamps).

If the reference wire had an intermittent connection that would also cause this problem, regardless of current draw.

An interesting test would be to turn as many electrical loads on as possible and measure the voltage between the alternator output terminal and the positive battery terminal. The displayed voltage is the voltage drop. I suspect it's pretty high on the cars exhibiting this problem.

Ohh OK, well then the new wire is a bypass, you cut the old and leave it unused then you new wire will go from your alt. output to the voltage reg of the alt.

Here's the story on the wiring harness problem. I had both my tours done years ago. A relative of mine worked for a sneaks engineering company that was hired by Ford to solve some of their hardware and software problems several years ago. He got to know the Engineers at Ford real well and they told them this horror story. Back in the early 90s Ford, in their effort to save some money, cut the quality department out totally. These are the folks that take products made by numerous vendors and test them to see if they meet spec. They also compile records of problems reported by dealers and seek to resolve them in a matter of weeks. Instead it took years to fix the parts. Remember the pre-cat problems on the 95s? If someone would have tested the manifolds only a few hundred cars would have had this problem - not 2 years worth. As for the harness. The vendor used the incorrect plastizer in the insulation formula. Cars in the south, expecially ones near the Gulf, had the insulation falling off 2 years later. Water pump is the same story. Someone decided to color the 2.5s impellers black as no to confuse them with other pumps. The dye caused the plastic to degrade prematurly. It tool a few years to catch this one. Where was their savings???

When I removed the computer harness from my brother's 1995 Ford Contour V6, I noticed that the wires connecting to the knock sensor were in perfect condition. No cracking at all.

I think somone got the 160C GPT (general purpose thermoplastic) wire spools mixed up with the 300C TXL (thinwall crosslink) wire spools, but that's just my theory.

By the way, the wiring harness vendor is Yazaki. They are a Japanese company.

Originally posted by brianl703:
When I removed the computer harness from my brother's 1995 Ford Contour V6, I noticed that the wires connecting to the knock sensor were in perfect condition. No cracking at all.

I think somone got the 160C GPT (general purpose thermoplastic) wire spools mixed up with the 300C TXL (thinwall crosslink) wire spools, but that's just my theory.

By the way, the wiring harness vendor is Yazaki. They are a Japanese company.

Some are made by UTC too.

Terry Haines mentioned that they were made by Yazaki, and when I looked at their webpage, their logo (the triangle) was already familiar to me because it's on many wiring connectors used in the Contour.

I sure would like to know why this crap wiring didn't find itself into any other cars other than the Contour/Mystique.

Actually, the 1995 Mercedes E320 supposedly also has the same problem..wonder who made those harnesses?

Originally posted by brianl703:
Terry Haines mentioned that they were made by Yazaki, and when I looked at their webpage, their logo (the triangle) was already familiar to me because it's on many wiring connectors used in the Contour.

I sure would like to know why this crap wiring didn't find itself into any other cars other than the Contour/Mystique.

Actually, the 1995 Mercedes E320 supposedly also has the same problem..wonder who made those harnesses?

In my years of experiance with German cars most of their wiring and electrical parts suck!

There was no 100,000 mile, 10 year warranty for the wiring harnesses on the 1995 E320 either.

Oops..GPT is rated for 160F, not C. TXL is rated for about 300F, not C. (actually I think it's closer to 285F).

Originally posted by brianl703:
It might be worth the effort to run a new wire from the battery back to the regulator (the 3-terminal connector). Or at least disconnecting the old wire so it doesn't short out.

So let me get this straight before I perform this...

Perform everything that is in that diagram, and then in addition run a wire from the positive terminal on the battery to the end of that wire I cut(where the "X" is in the diagram)?

Originally posted by CSVT#49:

Originally posted by brianl703:
It might be worth the effort to run a new wire from the battery back to the regulator (the 3-terminal connector). Or at least disconnecting the old wire so it doesn't short out.

So let me get this straight before I perform this...

Perform everything that is in that diagram, and then in addition run a wire from the positive terminal on the battery to the end of that wire I cut(where the "X" is in the diagram)?

No!!

Just cut the red wire. Leave the wire with an X hanging there on the harness. run the red wire on the 3 pin connector to the main thick wire post of the ALT.

follow me? PM me if you have any questions.

I followed the diagram just fine. I asked what the cut wire's purpose was... he explained it and suggested running a new wire or disconnected the one that was cut. I was clarifying that I connect the end of the "X"'d out wire to a new wire to the battery positive terminal and if this is wrong what to do otherwise.

I put this in the other post last nite and today I did some testing.
Ok this is what I see on the Ford electrical diagram, fuse F-5 (15 amp) in the BJB on the bottom side front of the BJB is a connector is OG wire. (orange I assume) Now Look at the connector with bolt in the center laying horizontal between the factory air box and the strut tower it changes from orange to red in this connector known to Ford as C3001. The next stop is the alternator connector it providing reference voltage to the regulator. So there is the fuse connector, the connector under the BJB and the C3001 connector that need to be exercised if you don't want to do the mod.

Today I pulled F-5 out and rigged a connection into the slots hooked up a VOM in series on 12 amp current. I was able to re-create the flickering by having a slightly loose connection on my VOM. The flicking happens with the slightest loss of voltage to the alternator, regulator does not quickly/immediately reset again causing the flicking/fluctating. One millsecond interupt will cause 3-5 flickers before it would settle.
This happened with headlights high,fan on high and idling and 2000rpm however with a light load the regualtor is quicker to settle???? This circuit only draws 4-5 amps at the most. I interesting note is with the headlights on the current draw was 2-3 amps and revving the engine the current drops the 1/2 to 1 amp? I think once the alternator has 1500 and over rpms, the current draw probably is linear, it's that transition from idle to 1500 the output catches up.
It's a strange circuit that definitely doesn't not like any interruptions.
If I was to do the "Mod" I'd put a 15 amp in-line fuse on the mod, just in case the regulator shorts it would prevent melt down.
Paul

OK got you #49. I for some reason thought that he meant just running a whole new line and replacing the existing line.

But thats not neccessary if you make the new splice. I guess you can do either but not both.

Im sorry for my confusion.

Originally posted by F111D F:
So there is the fuse connector, the connector under the BJB and the C3001 connector that need to be exercised if you don't want to do the mod.

I get everything up to this point, then I'm confused. What do you mean by exercised?

Your saying do something with the 15amp fuse in the fuse box under the dash, the 175amp fuse that is inline with the alternator and then C3001 connector for the main harness to the power distribution box in front of the strut tower?

I'm lost.

ttt

Originally posted by F111D F:
This circuit only draws 4-5 amps at the most. I interesting note is with the headlights on the current draw was 2-3 amps and revving the engine the current drops the 1/2 to 1 amp? I think once the alternator has 1500 and over rpms, the current draw probably is linear, it's that transition from idle to 1500 the output catches up.

Ok...now i'm a little worried...I don't mean to hijack, but since we're on the subject...

A while back i had some alternator issues of my own, and while looking over the schematics on the service CD I realized that fuse 5 distributes power to both the positive wire on the 3-wire alternator connector as well as the fog lamps (this can be seen on a few schematics on the service CD) ...it actually feeds power to both fog lamps...well as it turns out my stock fog lamps cracked up so i replaced them with aftermarket fogs which use H3 lamps ...55 watt each vs the stock which iirc is 37.5 watts each but since at the time i though fuse 5 only fed the fogs (i didnt know that it fed the regulator as well back then)...i just wired up the H3 lamps to the stock wiring since the fuse that came with the aftermarket fogs was 15 amps as well (like fuse 5 was originally).

But now i'm wondering...that stock rating of 15 amps is for two 35 watt fog lamps and the regulator...but i'm pulling current for two 55 watt fogs as well as the regulator...so i wonder if my having switched fogs and using them all the time (i treat them like DRLs) will affect the regulator in a bad way...hmm, i wonder if that's what killed my original alt?????

Well, i guess no more using my fogs until i have time to wire up a relay.......

F111D F,

So you hooked up an ammeter in series to the slot 5 fuse location (with no fog lamps on...just the car on) and it actually showed 5 AMPS?

Still confused on what you said there F111D F...

a little help please?

to the top...

Originally posted by CSVT#49:
..Your saying do something with the 15amp fuse in the fuse box under the dash, ..

Put an inline 15 amp fuse where the purple wire is. Just in case there is a problem with the voltage regulator, the 15 amp fuse will blow before burning out the alternator.