#@$@!#)@HELP!@(@$##@ - CEG Archives

oil light is low pressure.. period.

the rattling is MOST LIKELY a rod.

3L time, even if you weren't ready for it!

I was hopeing someone would have some idea as to why oil pressure is low despite the engine being full of the stuff.

Originally posted by feeling better Ray:
3L time, even if you weren't ready for it!

Pusht oh ye of little faith! http://www.restoreusa.com/

I suppose I better start reading the 3L How-to's.... Oh well maybe it's a blessing in disguise.

This really tops off the week I've been haveing, I don't have anywhere near the money for it right now.

"...despite the engine being full of the stuff..." Am I reading this correctly? You had to add two full quarts to get it to read "full" on the dipstick, when many who follow these boards like to run a half quart or more ABOVE the "full" level on the stick?

Being 2 1/2 or 3 quarts below where you should be is NOT "full of the stuff."

I hope your engine issue is minor, but it wasn't a good sign either that it was using oil to start with. If you end up needing a 3L, take better care of it.

Originally posted by PDXSVT:
"...despite the engine being full of the stuff..." Am I reading this correctly? You had to add two full quarts to get it to read "full" on the dipstick, when many who follow these boards like to run a half quart or more ABOVE the "full" level on the stick? ...

That'd be me. Half quart above max line for engine oil.

So what you're telling me is my engine will have low oil pressure if I run it at the factory recommended?

Perhaps I didn't explain the situation as well as I should have. The oil light problem (coming on and/or flickering during turns, sometimes when driveing also) is still happening after I filled the engine with oil. Thus the reason I'm asking if anyone has any ideas.

-Thanks

Originally posted by Shotsatiated:
..Perhaps I didn't explain the situation as well as I should have. The oil light problem (coming on and/or flickering during turns, sometimes when driveing also) is still happening after I filled the engine with oil. Thus the reason I'm asking if anyone has any ideas.

-Thanks

Oil pump is shot.

But did all that oil go? It has to be somewhere. If he normally loses 1/2 a quart and he was down 2qts, that is 1.5qts, also the the 2qts he put in. and the light came back on. So there should be 3.5 qts floating around somewhere!

Originally posted by Shotsatiated:
So what you're telling me is my engine will have low oil pressure if I run it at the factory recommended?

Perhaps I didn't explain the situation as well as I should have. The oil light problem (coming on and/or flickering during turns, sometimes when driveing also) is still happening after I filled the engine with oil. Thus the reason I'm asking if anyone has any ideas.

-Thanks

Did you check the oil level any time after you filled it back up? After you got back home safe? I would suspect that you have once again lost some oil.

With the e-brake on put the car in 1st gear. Slowly let the clutch out and give a little gas like you would to pull away but the brake will hold the car then push the clutch back in. This will create a load on the engine. If the bearings are spun you will start to get a rod knock...push the clutch back in and shut it off. My car spun the rod bearings around 25K (still under 3/36). You could only here the knock when it was under a load and mainly in 1st or 2nd gear. The dealer did the same test listed above to determine if the bearings where bad or not. The bottom end can be completely rebuilt while in the car from the bottom if the crankshaft isn't trashed. We caught mine quick before a lot of damage was done. All crankshaft journals were still within tolerance. A set of bearings, pan gasket and I was back on the road in one day...quite a bit cheaper then a 3L if you are not ready for that yet. Now, 25k later and I'm still running... knock-on-wood!

Hey guys,

Oil level was still at full when I got home. I added yet another quart but with no avail. I didn't really have time today but I do have some new information...

1. Sometimes it will idle *decently* but for the most part the car stumbles and dies. Example: Upon releasing the throttle when approaching a stop light the car will die or attempt to. The oil light will also illuminate briefly. Although if you rev the engine slightly it's fine, well with the exception of the noise and runing rough.

2. I also pulled codes. One bank was running lean, I forget which. Cylinders 3 and 4 had misfire conditions.

3. Attempted to pinpoint the noise with a electronic tracer ear, diffinitely coming from the lower portion of the engine. The noise sound something between connnecting rod and piston slap. My automotive instructor said he's heard the noise before.......right before it went.

So at the moment I'm thinking oil punmp, bearing, connecting rod at the least. Tomorrow I'm pulling the oil pan to have a look at the damage, take a look at the cylinders wall ect. I'll try to borrow a friends camera and update with pic for you guys.

-Thanks

Well I finally got those pictures and I suspect I found the problem....

Originally posted by Shotsatiated:

I'm going to replace all of the rod bearings and pray it holds until 3L time. Any recommendations while I'm down there?

Are you trying to kid yourself?! With a blown bottom end your wasting your time if you think just fitting bearings will get some more life out of the engine. The crank is shot as are the rods that spun the bearings. Fitting new bearings to a crank and rods in that state will last....30 sec's tops!

Originally posted by Shotsatiated:
Any recommendations while I'm down there?

When you are replacing the bearings, use tri-metal "Clevite" bearings. They have a layer of tin, a layer of copper, and a layer of bronze. You may be able to get some additional life out of that 2.5L using those bearings. If you use the cheapie bearings, you will be in the same boat again soon.

And your advice is 1000000% out and out bullsh*t! You don't know squat about how an engine works. Clevites in that
engine will not do squat. IT'S SHOT!!! Go ahead and dump $70 worth of bearings in there. Start it up and come back and let us know how the engine ran.

Originally posted by todras:
And your advice is 1000000% out and out bullsh*t! You don't know squat about how an engine works. Clevites in that
engine will not do squat. IT'S SHOT!!! Go ahead and dump $70 worth of bearings in there. Start it up and come back and let us know how the engine ran.

This is not from personal experience, but my friend swapped his bearings in his honduh when they started to go and he replaced em with clevites and the knock has not come back. Granted he's no mechanical genius so...Todd I am holding judgement, and would research, but finals are this week.

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

This is not from personal experience, but my friend swapped his bearings in his honduh when they started to go and he replaced em with clevites and the knock has not come back. Granted he's no mechanical genius so...Todd I am holding judgement, and would research, but finals are this week.

Yea WHEN THEY STARTED TO GO! His bearings are already wiped out.

SOMETIMES it can be saved if you catch it very early. Guys on SHOForum have saved Yamaha's as well. Tell me when the bearings and rods have that much scoring what happens? Metal has to go somewhere doesn't it? Where does it go and what happens? Digs into the rod bearing and crank creating pits, gouge's and other imperfections. The tolerances are so tight it's incredible.

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

This is not from personal experience, but my friend swapped his bearings in his honduh when they started to go and he replaced em with clevites and the knock has not come back. Granted he's no mechanical genius so...Todd I am holding judgement, and would research, but finals are this week.

Yea WHEN THEY STARTED TO GO! His bearings are already wiped out. SOMETIMES it can be saved if you catch it very early. Guys on SHOForum have saved Yamaha's as well. Tell me when the bearings and rods have that much scoring what happens? Metal has to go somewhere doesn't it? Where does it go and what happens? Digs into the rod bearing and crank creating pits, gouge's and other imperfections. The tolerances are so tight it's incredible.

True.

Plasti gauge it before you spend ANY MONEY on new bearings.

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

Plasti gauge it before you spend ANY MONEY on new bearings.

New bearings in a ripped up rod won't even be retained by the rod & will spin instantly! Don't waste your time on the crank either. From that amount of wear NEW CRANK.

Ditch the rebuild & go straight into a 3L.

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

Plasti gauge it before you spend ANY MONEY on new bearings.

New bearings in a ripped up rod won't even be retained by the rod & will spin instantly! Don't waste your time on the crank either. From that amount of wear NEW CRANK.

I'm just saying the plasti gauge will PROVE it either way. He seems dead set on throwing new bearings in.

Originally posted by todras:
You don't know squat about how an engine works.

And your ASME certification number is?

And you have been working one engines for how many years?

Have you ever had the oil pan off of an engine?

Originally posted by sysanalyst:

Originally posted by todras:
You don't know squat about how an engine works.

And your ASME certification number is?

And you have been working one engines for how many years?

Have you ever had the oil pan off of an engine?

And wtf is your certification!? I know for a fact he has gone as far into an engine as anyone can possibly go. I agree with him to a point, but I could give a rats ass about that certification. If all those monkeys at various dealerships are certified then AFAIC the system is a complete joke.

The point is that he has prob ruined the motor...I am trying to give the kid the benefit of the doubt and have him plasti gauge it.

The only thing you have done is come on and shaken things up without any other input yourself. So I ask you wtf is your certification and who are you to talk!?

The majority of us happen to know what todd has done with these cars.

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
I am trying to give the kid the benefit of the doubt and have him plasti gauge it.

Not sure he is a kid; but at any rate the plasti-gauge requires new bearings be on hand. A caliper (even a cheapie) can be used to determine the average journal diameter using statistical samples taken at random points along the bearing journal surface. This can be compared to the actual manufacturing tolerances listed in shop manual.

As far as experience, I have a masters degree in mechanical engineering from the University of Michigan where I graduated in the top 5 percent of my graduating class. During the course of my studies, I picked up an ASME certificaion, although I've not kept it current, I suppose I could take the recertification exam at any point and pass.

No offense to you Sys, but spouting your degrees in here means as much to us as if we had just wiped our asses with them (it's all just material waiting to be flushed). There are plenty of smart people in the world that still can't pour piss out of a boot.

Putting new bearings in that engine will not last period.

Rick

He recently posted pics of his homecoming float and the pics of his car are in his HS shop class garage.

Also I forgot that yes you would need he new bearings on hand for the plasti gauge...oops, brain fart.

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
No offense to you Sys, but spouting your degrees in here means ....

As far as "spouting off".... I was asked, in a vlugar tone mind you, what my qualifications were. I did not "spout". Spout would infer that I just started "bragging" and "mouthing off". That is indeed not what was done.

In this case of a person with a sick engine, they simply asked for advice. In my experience, I've had luck with worn/rough crank journals using "tri-metal" bearings. That was the advice I was giving. Sure would be nice for that person to install a new engine. Maybe that is what will eventually happen. In this case, the individual indicated that they are not financially prepared to take on a project of that magnitude at the moment. I merely offered an opinion on what could be done.

If I managed to offend anybody on this forum, I surely do apologize to them.

I'll look for the link to terminate my membership here.

Originally posted by sysanalyst:

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
No offense to you Sys, but spouting your degrees in here means ....

As far as "spouting off".... I was asked, in a vlugar tone mind you, what my qualifications were. I did not "spout". Spout would infer that I just started "bragging" and "mouthing off". That is indeed not what was done.

In this case of a person with a sick engine, they simply asked for advice. In my experience, I've had luck with worn/rough crank journals using "tri-metal" bearings. That was the advice I was giving. Sure would be nice for that person to install a new engine. Maybe that is what will eventually happen. In this case, the individual indicated that they are not financially prepared to take on a project of that magnitude at the moment. I merely offered an opinion on what could be done.

If I managed to offend anybody on this forum, I surely do apologize to them.

I'll look for the link to terminate my membership here.

unfortun. one doesnt exist

Originally posted by sysanalyst:

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
No offense to you Sys, but spouting your degrees in here means ....

As far as "spouting off".... I was asked, in a vlugar tone mind you, what my qualifications were. I did not "spout". Spout would infer that I just started "bragging" and "mouthing off". That is indeed not what was done.

In this case of a person with a sick engine, they simply asked for advice. In my experience, I've had luck with worn/rough crank journals using "tri-metal" bearings. That was the advice I was giving. Sure would be nice for that person to install a new engine. Maybe that is what will eventually happen. In this case, the individual indicated that they are not financially prepared to take on a project of that magnitude at the moment. I merely offered an opinion on what could be done.

If I managed to offend anybody on this forum, I surely do apologize to them.

I'll look for the link to terminate my membership here.

unfortun. one doesnt exist

Originally posted by sysanalyst:

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
No offense to you Sys, but spouting your degrees in here means ....

As far as "spouting off".... I was asked, in a vlugar tone mind you, what my qualifications were.

Uuuu only after you asked first. WTH? I had an ASE certified try to sell me last week that that an SVT Contour needs a new shift cable instead of just changing the $12 end. After I showed him he said, "Umm well sorry we don't see too many of these in here." I didn't trust a mechanic 13 yrs. ago when I took my first car to a shop at 18. The entire reason I do everything myself. The day an ASE certified mechanic knows more about a Duratec than me I'll gladly wipe his ass on his next trip to drop off the Cosby kids at the pool. I can gladly show you my bachelors degree or real estate appraisers license. Both of which are a tad more difficult to obtain than an ASE certification. How about you go post more about how great Lucas oil additive is.

You could machine the crank, use the appropriate size new main and rod bearings. That might be worth trying.
Then it might last, maybe change the oil pump too. Still not a sure thing.

I figure Sysanalyst is not coming back, that interchange went south in a hurry

Originally posted by FavoriteMystaque:
You could machine the crank, use the appropriate size new main and rod bearings. That might be worth trying.
Then it might last, maybe change the oil pump too. Still not a sure thing.

I figure Sysanalyst is not coming back, that interchange went south in a hurry

oil pump is going to fix spun bearings...the cost to machine the crank may cost more than the cost of a new block. Now...I think we should get a group buy on machined 2.5 cranks...

Probably the best option he has at this point is to buy a running 2.5 junkyard motor with a 90 day guarantee and swap it in. Everything else involves rebuilding and tearing down his current setup which if he doesn't have the ability to do himself would certainly cost more.

Rick