I've searched through all the old posts and can't seem to find any answers.
First, my car wouldn't turn off when I turned off the ignition and took out the key. It would just sit there idling while I stood outside of the car with my keys in my hand confused. Well after search through the posts, I thought that maybe my ignition switch had died.
Well, I replaced the ignition switch and now the car will not start. The accessories will come on (radio, lights, windows go down, etc...), but the car will not turn over. There is not even any clicking noise like there would be if it were a battery issue. The battery has full charge, the alternator is only a few months old, so basically the only thing I can think of is the starter itself.
If my starter was dead, would there be absolutely no sound when trying to start the car?
Yes, you'd hear no sound if the starter was completely dead or had totally siezed.
You my friend may have a PATS problem. Look at that little red light next to where your clock is, or if you don't have a clock, next to where it says "Contour" on the dash. It should light up continuously for a couple of seconds when you turn the key to "ON" Then it should go out. If it doesn't light up continuously, but instead randomly flashes or doesn't come on at all, you have a PATS malfunction. You won't be able to fix that yourself, you'll have to take it to a Ford dealer, not even a local shop will be able to fix it.
check your starter relay, yet? Sounds like the symptoms of a bad relay, or missing/faulty wiring to the starter itself.
Does your car happen to have ProLock on it? It'd be a little black key below the steering wheel... We have that on our car, and the original key went flakey, totally stumped me why our car wouldn't start until I looked down there to check fuses and remembered about it -- fumbled with it, and the car started
Originally posted by Ray:
check your starter relay, yet? Sounds like the symptoms of a bad relay, or missing/faulty wiring to the starter itself.
How exactly would I test this?
Originally posted by OoTLink:
Does your car happen to have ProLock on it? It'd be a little black key below the steering wheel... We have that on our car, and the original key went flakey, totally stumped me why our car wouldn't start until I looked down there to check fuses and remembered about it -- fumbled with it, and the car started
Nope, don't have it.
I've checked all the relays and fuses and still nothing. Although I did notice that when the key is in the on position, the PATS light blinks three times then turns off. Does this mean that PATS is preventing ignition?
I went out to my Mystique, the PATS LED does not blink with key on run position. I seem to remember the LED blinks with no cranking of the starter if the key is not programmed and you try to start. Is clutch pedal down when starting, I imagine so.
Did you just get new keys made? If so, try the others. This site has lots of (obscure) information about PATS
PATS from v8sho.combut no light blinks..
Same old keys, clutch pedal down. I did just replace the ignition switch, but I don't know how that affects the PATS.
Was the new switch identical to the old?
Yes. Now there is a different issue. The PATS light is no longer flashing at all. Not without a key and not when you try to turn on the car. I may have to do what I hate the most... taking it in to the dealer. I've manged to avoid it for 4 years dang-it...
Let us know what they find. It changed symptoms on you
Maybe checking your fuses underhood, and underdash, is worth a shot.
Originally posted by path914:
I've checked all the relays and fuses and still nothing. Although I did notice that when the key is in the on position, the PATS light blinks three times then turns off. Does this mean that PATS is preventing ignition?
Already checked all fuses and relays...
Turned out to be a PATS issue as I suspected. New transceiver and re-program keys = $375
Ouch...
Not cheap! Is it fixed now?
Nope, just took it to the dealer today. They say it won't be done until Monday due to the holiday. Fortunately, my GF's mom has been letting me drive her Miata. One of my favorite cars to drive... kinda reminds me how much I miss my old Porsche 914.
Nice loaner car, and you still have the nice weather, which I sure don't. (upstate NY
)
Yup, mid-70's to 80's for the last couple weeks. Its really rough when my house and school are both within a couple miles of the beach...
Hard to believe but the issue is still not fixed and the dealer called me today to tell me that they've given up and I need to have the car towed away.
The PATS issue was fixed with a new transmitter/transceiver, but the original issue of the ignition not turning off is still unresolved. According to them, there are some wires that are shorting out somewhere and after two weeks they can't find them.
I've going to have to tow the car to my GF's parents place and spend my weekend tracking down the wiring somehow. Any suggestions on where to look?
This topic has a schematic of part of the Run circuit on a 1995 Mystique
Top image is diagramSee if it stays running when you unplug the ignition switch, you then have a short to power from a switched wire somehow. That will be a challenge. I got the diagram from
www.alldatadiy.com. Probably quickest way to get data (19 bucks). [The Ford service cd's here
Ford cds work if you are adept at CD burning (I am now) and you need the 1992.nrg file and the 2000.iso file, burn each to cd from decompressed zip file, install software. Look in General wiring information. Someone has cd's in the classifieds too.]
I have all of the wiring diagrams already. Unfortunately, the car won't start even when the ignition issue is fixed as the keys still need to be re-programed to the new PATS transmitter. A friend is going to come by Sunday to help me try to find the issue.
You are prepared
Maybe pull fuses methodically.. Another CEG'er had wiring under the fuse box by the battery short out, he fixed it (different symptoms). I also remember someone else had underdash fuse box wiring fail on the back side of it. Good luck, let us know the fault. Somone else here has an SVT also not shutting off ...
All fuses and relays have been checked out already. In fact the whole fuse box was swapped out with a new one and nothing changed. I have a feeling that we will be looking for some wiring harness plugs that may have cracked and have pins touching. The dealer had it for almost two weeks and found nada, so it may be a long process...
Which fuse box was swapped? The one next to the battery or underdash. Maybe a wire got pinched into another.
The under dash one with the ignition relay. The ignition relay is seeing continuous power.
I studied the diagram of the ignition relay, Pin 5 is constant power 3 is output(on) power, 2 is relay coil power from key switch to click it on. Try pulling that relay and see if the car is off. If the relay was stuck, or triggered on pin 2, power would be on pin 3.
The relay is fine and has been checked, replaced and checked again. The issue is a short somewhere along the line. The car cannot be turned on regardless since the keys still need to be re-programed for the new PATS.
other svt no shutoffThis is the other CEG'er who has the same problem. If you succeed, he will benefit too.
Well, after spending the day looking for the short, we gave up and just installed a manual kill switch in line with the ignition relay. So now I should be able to get my keys re-programmed and the car should run fine. I will just have to flip the switch to turn off the car. This will have to do for now until I have the time to drop it off at a shop to find the real issue.
They call it a "workaround" in software
The other CEG'er found out it was his remote starter. Hope the shop can find the problem, maybe there is an Electrical shop or some car stereo installers that know somone.
Dammmm i cant believe you still havent gottin it fixed, its been like a month!!
No kidding! One week of me checking out various fuses, relays, etc... two weeks at Ford I suspect mostly spent tearing apart my car for fun (I can't even begin to tell you about how they put things back together
), and the past week at my GF's parents house.
As is I can't seem to find a locksmith that can program the Ford keys so I can finally see if my car will start. Meanwhile I am back to driving the Focus...
Is there another Ford dealer around, I know the dealer can do key programming, for a fee, if you towed it there, etc. I am surprised a locksmith can't do it, the PATS is a common Ford irritation..
Any of the Ford dealers can do it, however they charge $85 and I would have to tow it there and possibly back. I've been so busy with school lately, I just haven't had the time to do more calling around.
Just an update on this, my car is STILL not running!
After installing a kill switch on the ignition relay, the locksmith was still unable to re-program the keys. Apparently the computer that they use plugs into the OBD II port. He was unable to get his programmer to even connect to the car.
Sooo... I decided, screw it and had it towed to the local auto electrical shop that comes highly recommended by all the local guys. After taking a look at my car and hearing all about the issues that I had at the dealer, they tell me that there is nothing they can do with my car. They say that until the PATS is re-programmed by the dealer they can not begin to diagnose the ignition problem (which the dealer said could not be done until the ignition issue is resolved
). So now I am stuck...
My car will not start and I'm assuming will not turn off once started... About ready to start throwing lawn darts at unsuspecting auto workers...
Which dealership Paul, was it Mossy, Baker? I don't know about the service department but El Cajon Ford replaced the dash in my SE and the bumper on my SVT years ago, treated me well and did a good job.
Bob Baker, where I originally bought the car. I went there merely because they were the closest to me. I think I may call Drew Ford tomorrow and see if they will be willing to work on my car as I've had good experiences there in the past. If not, I'm kinda screwed, I don't really know what to do with the car.
I hope they do a better job for you than the other dealer, and get it running
Try Circuit City for reprograming. I am looking at a remote start from them, and they have to program a third key for my 98. Maybe they are able to do what you need. Car Toys also, but I'm not to fond of them! The call is worth a shot. Good luck.
Originally posted by markmerc410:
Try Circuit City for reprograming. I am looking at a remote start from them, and they have to program a third key for my 98. Maybe they are able to do what you need. Car Toys also, but I'm not to fond of them! The call is worth a shot. Good luck.
Those kind of places can do nothing for my problem as they really know very little about the PATS or our cars, but I appreciate your suggestion.