1995 Contour LX/V6/auto
159K KM
EEC-IV Codes: 117, 172
- hot day (30-35�°C, very humid)
- first occurence of overheating
- after 30 min drive, coolant was boiling/steaming
- most of the coolant evaporated
- intermittent CEL, new code 117
- heating system works, air is very hot
- oil level @ max line, change is due
- existing issue: temperature guage doesn't work, stays all the way to the left
- existing issue: intermittent CEL, existing code 172
- existing issue (escalating): catalytic converter is vibrating when lightly engaging throttle
- existing issue: squeeking sound originating from back seat area of car that lasts for 5-10 seconds after ignition (intermittently)
- unsure if waterpump has been replaced
As I arrived home today after about a 30 minute drive (20m @ 120KM/hr freeway, 10m city), I noticed the smell of hot plastic and the fan was very loud.
I made it home before breaking down and found that the coolant in the reservoir was boiling. It had been above the min level as early as a few days ago, but when it finished boiling, there was almost none left. While it cooled down, I checked the CEL; new code 117 was found in addition to 172 which I've had for months.
I filled the reservoir with a universal Prestone coolant and took it for short test drive. Nothing out of the ordinary occurred, but I did notice that the fan was very loud, but that may have been because it's a hot day. No CEL's.
I have researched the issue here, but most other overheating issues involve a dysfunctional heating system or multiple EEC-IV codes that I'm not getting.
I am open to advice on how to proceed, and especially open to ideas on how I can tell if further damage has been caused.
Thanks.
That sounds just like a water pump failure to me. Your heater can still function and coolant will still flow, but only because of "siphon" power which is...lacking. The water pump impeller is plastic, but I have never heard of smelling the plastic burning...
Well, I let it cool for a couple of hours, cleared the EEC-IV codes and went for a longer drive. The 172 code returned, 117 did not. I didn't push the car hard, maybe 100 KM/hr for a few minutes. Total driving time was perhaps 20 minutes or less.
When I turned off the engine and took a peek, the coolant reservoir wasn't boiling this time, however I could hear a "gurgling" sound as if a fluid was boiling, coming the engine, maybe close to the air filter. I couldn't pinpoint it.
I'd like to be able to drive to work tomorrow as there's a garage that I like to go to close by, but it seems as if that would be a bad idea. Taking the bus to work tomorrow and picking up a water pump on the way home sounds like a better idea.
Try to get a metal impeller pump, I used a Delco. The original pump is black plastic, you may find the impeller is loose on the shaft and cracked into 2-3 pieces. The "white plastic" impellers may be ok as well. Good luck with your repair. You might want to replace the temperature gauge sensor, which is right behind the waterpump housing. Maybe the wire is just pulled off if you are lucky. Then you can monitor the engine temperature. (On my Mystique the sensor had shorted, which pegs the needle to the hot side.)
I did not just read 30 minutes of driving on an overheated engine.
Likely a shattered impellar as everyone said already. I hate talking the wrong anticipation.. but your engine most likely took some damage. Er.. I want to say more than likely.. but that's not my area of expertise.
Hope all goes well!
When the water pump fails, the heater will NOT blow hot.
Check for a stuck shut thermostat.
Originally posted by Big Jim:
When the water pump fails, the heater will NOT blow hot.
Check for a stuck shut thermostat.
+1
Ray
The heater feels as if it's blowing hotter than normal, actually. Of course, it was also very hot outside.
Could it be that the water pump is damaged but marginally effective, so that the fluid is still moving, but not fast enough to effectively dissipate heat? But then, the heat did come on immediately.
I also wondered if it could be the rad that's not working correctly.
What scares me about all of this is that I don't know how long this has been an issue -- if it was a little cooler outside, I may not have noticed anything. Have I been damaging my engine over the last few weeks? If my engine is running hot, that must also impact the transaxle, no?
But then, I had thought recently that my tour's performance was stronger than normal....
Added:
If the issue is a stuck shut thermostat, would the coolant hoses be extremely hot to the touch? Would the fan be on frequently?
Something is restriced but it is still pumping. Start with checking the thermostat.
I took another a look this morning and found that the heating system functioned for around two minutes and went cool this time. I didn't feel pressure in any of the hoses entering/exiting the reservoir and there was no signs of the fluid moving. I also realized that the hoses may only be hot because of the engine.
I took the bus to work this morning and will pick up a new water pump and temperature sensor on my way home.
Thanks to all for the advice/insight.
Originally posted by Big Jim:
When the water pump fails, the heater will NOT blow hot.
Check for a stuck shut thermostat.
Thermostat would be the first to check, but don't rule out the water pump. When our old Buick's water pump failed, the heater was still working. Yes, coolant is what runs through the heater, but there IS still coolant flowing through the heater core when the water pump fails. It's just not enough to cool the car, but if the day is hot enough, and the coolant is already hot, the heater can indeed blow warm.
He could have a blockage in a hose for all we know...but I still believe that the heater can still work in the case of a bad water pump. And if the thermo-stat was bad, wouldn't coolant not flow through the heater either? To check the thermostat, just feel the heat of the hoses before and after it. If one is cold and one is not, there is your problem.
On the way home tonight, I picked up a temperature sender, a temperature sensor, a water pump belt and a new water pump with a metal impeller.
The old water pump impeller had a crack right down the middle. It looked like it could still function randomly, but it was practically dysfunctional. I installed the new water pump and it's working well, however I neglected to do anything to treat the gasket.
I located the sender, but I didn't have a deepwell socket to remove it with. Should the sender have a wire attached to it? There is nothing attached to mine. There is a wire with a loose end hanging between the water pump and battery. It has a blue plastic end that may be broken. I took a photo, I'll post some pics tomorrow if necessary.
I *thought* that I located the temperature sensor, but I was wrong as the part I was provided with looks nothing like what I found. What I located had a spring and no wires attached to it......
The belt sold to me was way too long, so I reused the existing belt which seems to be in acceptable condition.
So, end result is that the old water pump was damaged and has been replaced with a new water pump. ...but, I don't know for certain if that was the only issue because my temperature gauge still doesn't work.
Thanks again to everyone who has helped me with this.
At least you know the pump has been changed.
I believe the thermostat fails in the open position, at least most ford ones do.
You can test the coolant temp sender by disconnecting it and checking the range of the connectors with a multitester. You should be able to find the acceptable range in a shop manual. The guage sender is more simple. you can disconnect it...run a test wire from the red/white wire on the connector to a ground, turn the ignition to on, if the sender goes right to hot...it is defective. There should definately be a wire attached to it, if it doesn't the engine won't function properly and will run rich because the computer will think it is running colder than it is.
Originally posted by dutchie:
At least you know the pump has been changed.
I believe the thermostat fails in the open position, at least most ford ones do.
You can test the coolant temp sender by disconnecting it and checking the range of the connectors with a multitester. You should be able to find the acceptable range in a shop manual. The guage sender is more simple. you can disconnect it...run a test wire from the red/white wire on the connector to a ground, turn the ignition to on, if the sender goes right to hot...it is defective. There should definately be a wire attached to it, if it doesn't the engine won't function properly and will run rich because the computer will think it is running colder than it is.
My experience is that they are more likely to stick shut. But then customers with cars that are running too cool usually don't bring them in for service where a car with a thermostat that is stuck shut is usually towed in immediately.
The temperature sender for the Gauge is a brass device with a screw thread sticking out of it. Take a look at this picture,
Contour.org it's the round gold thing above the flywheel and 1/2 to 3/4 inch (on your monitor image!) to the right of the waterpump. If the loose plug is black rubber and is attached to a "white wire with a red line in a black sleeve" it would be for the temp gauge. Please post the photos. The other sensor is probably the coolant temp sensor for the engine computer, which is near the intake manifold and hard to see, and may not be bad..You might have fixed your car, except for the gauge.
Thanks for the information. I believe I have found the wire for the sender resting along the bottom. I think I'll have to take the air filter off in order to reach it.
The car seems to be driving well aside a perhaps more frequent CEL for code 172. But today I noticed some new sounds coming from the engine. There seems to be a high pitch hissing/whining sound coming from around the water pump (but not necessarily the water pump.) I believe that there is a new clicking/knocking sound coming from the passenger side of the engine. It may be that I'm just paying more attention than I used to.
My car makes a high pitch "hiss whine" near the waterpump as well, only when hot. Is yours a Delco pump? My dad's 1992 Sable used to make a noise like that from a bleed valve in the EGR system (lots of Taurus/Sables do it), I am unsure of the cause of the hiss noise on the 1998 Mystique. If the knock is slight it may be OK, my sister's 1995 Mystique does that from somewhere on the pass side of the v6, not the main bearings.
I have almost the exact same problem. My coolant temperature gauge doesnt work, it points to the left. And just today i smelled coolant and i opened my hood and it was boiling/bubbling out of the overflow resovoir. I do not have a CEL tho.
Check this out,
http://www.fastcougar.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=114933The red is the sensor for the coolant temperature gauge, the green is the sensor the for computer. We have something messed up with the red sensor or the wiring for the red sensor. I really wish my temperature gauge was working so i know if im overheating or not. Where do you get the replacement water pump at with the metal impellar, ive searched but couldnt find anywhere? Please help me out desiato . I also have this post over on NECO stating my problems.
http://www.fastcougar.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=124574Mike
I think Autozone, and NAPA. NAPA DPW1251910, looks like metal impeller. I bought a Delco metal impeller pump locally.
streetrider05,
Thanks for the link to the engine picture, that's a great aide. As for the part, I called around different part stores around town and asked about the impeller specifically. Beware of refurb units, I've been told that most of those have plastic impellers.
I absolutely recommend not driving your Contour until you've solved the overheating issue though.
I had mine checked out at the garage yesterday and everything looks good. My Contour is running as well as it ever has. I replaced the sender and now have a working temperature guauge.
Now that I know where the sensor is, it's next, and hopefully that'll help solve my running rich issue. But then, if my rad fan is kicking in, doesn't that mean that the temperature sensor is working?
Yes, I think so, my fan trips at the m in normal. That is the main temp sensor for engine control. Is there a fault code?
desiato, you couldnt happen to know a part number to the sender for the coolant temperature?
I checked my receipt stack: It is F5RZ-10884-B for the temp gauge sender. 2.5 Duratec, 1998.
thank you!! im gonig to buy this tomorrow and hope it fixes my gauge!
You're welcome, I think it will be fixed!
hey, i got the part, it seems like its missing the plastic thing which is used to plug into.
Here is a pic of it, anyone know the part number for the plastic attachment that goes on the end where the wire plugs into?
what is the difference between:
F5RZ-10884-A
F5RZ-10884-B
I have part B, and it seems that it is missing the plastic plugin, could A be the complete sender unit?
That connector should be attached to the white with red stripe wire. It pushes right on the threads.