CEL on;just spent 650 bucks on tune-up &oil change

I'm guessing Paula is a woman and got taken advantage of! Why did you feel the need to give your car a tune up at 37k!!!

Plugs and wires are about $80 if you get OEM and a set of Autolites. I wouldn't even change them until 70k if they aren't giving you any issues. Sounds like you were almost hunting to get hosed.

Where in MD are ya? I'm sure if you check over in the Capital Area CEG section someone there could probably direct you to an AutoZone or Advance Auto near you. Why stealerships charge anything to check codes is beyond me as with a code reader it takes all of 30 seconds to do the job if that. But yeah I have to agree that $650 sounds awfully pricey for a basic tune-up, but then again I usually do most of my own work too so I don't know what a lot of places charge these days.

That was expensive!

Try posting in the Capital CEG section, one of those guys may have the scanner and will read the codes for you.

For 160$, buy your own scanner.

Can you list what all they did for that cost?

Even though you have low miles you have age.

Goto just about any parts store and loan a tool or buy one.

Odds are if you can't feel a change then it's something that the car has adjusted to already. So it could be the VCT or a bad O2 sensor or maybe the timing was not done right with the cams. or maybe the oil stick is not in tight, or maybe it's just a gas lid open circuit and so on a so forth blah blah...

$650 for a tune-up? Ouch.

Hi guys!

Thanks for all of your posts. Yes, I am a female--ha--so I am a walking target for any 'stealership' or gas station. They must think I'm really stupid. I forgot to include that I had the fuel injectors cleaned too. But still, does that really constitute such a high cost? I did contact customer service at Shell and the actual manager of the station really got upset. He's quite rude. Shell customer service called a FORD dealership to see what they would have charged for the same work and it would have been $40 dollars cheaper (whooptie-do..). Honestly, I don't know who I can trust now and I'm frightened to drive the car because of the check engine light. I do understand that the car has age, but it is driven on a daily basis. It gets an oil change and routine tune-ups, so the CEL, to me, is baffling. Also, the car passed emissions a few months ago. I'm beginning to think that if you are a single woman it is nearly impossible to be treated fairly at the dealership or gas station. I have a scan of the actual SHELL bill if there's some way to post it, please advise. Thanks again for all of your help.

Kind regards,
Paula

Frist go to AutoZone and have them READ THE CODE and GET THE ACTUAL CODE NUMBER not their hairbrained assessment from the number.

Get the code number/s, they'll be Pxxxx numbers, then post them here to find out what the ECU is upset about. My thought is that the assclown at the garage unplugged something and forgot to reconnect it.

Until you tellus the codes we're totally clueless as to the cause for your CEL.

Geez, that is like the price BMW owners pay for a "tune up" on their car. That is outragous! If all they did was injector cleaning, spark plugs and wire, and oil....that should cost no more than $250. And that would be for a chemical cleaning of the injectors ($80 normally) instead of just normal fuel injector cleaner stuff put in the gas tank. A CEL is normally because of an O2 sensor. Not sure of the cost of those things, so you might want to ask around for those.

Just remember, learn all you can before you go to a place....knowladge is power (just look at that spelling...geez...no woner why no one takes me seriously). LOL

Post the scan minus any information like name and credit cards ect..

Do you have any car part stores in town? You should try calling any of them on the phone and ask about pulling codes. Odds are you can have this done for free if you keep asking.

Until we have the codes there in not much more for us to do here. And if they are 40$ over Ford, mind that Ford is already higher than most shops, then yes you got shafted.

List the store and people that work there and lets be sure none of our friends ever go there.

Hi again!

Okay, looks like I'll have to make the trek to Autozone in Laurel, MD. I'm in Silver Spring and the Laurel location seems to be the closest one. I've been to a couple Autoland (?/I think that's the right name) parts stores and they sell OBDII scan tools, but they can't do the check-up because of Montgomery County laws

While I am on the subject, I found this on ebay and was hoping someone here could tell me if it's a worthy purchase:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4549118219&category=43989

As soon as I can get the codes, I'll post them, but in the meantime, say a prayer to the Contour God in the sky for me

.

Thanks!!
Paula

Yes and no. If you think you're going to need to read codes a lot then yes. But seeing as AutoZone does them for free why bother?

Originally posted by paulab12:

Hi again!

Okay, looks like I'll have to make the trek to Autozone in Laurel, MD. I'm in Silver Spring and the Laurel location seems to be the closest one. I've been to a couple Autoland (?/I think that's the right name) parts stores and they sell OBDII scan tools, but they can't do the check-up because of Montgomery County laws While I am on the subject, I found this on ebay and was hoping someone here could tell me if it's a worthy purchase:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4549118219&category=43989

As soon as I can get the codes, I'll post them, but in the meantime, say a prayer to the Contour God in the sky for me .

Thanks!!
Paula

God, I hate those county laws.

Being a Florida man here, I can understand what it's like.

That is a cheap scanner and should do the job of reading and clearing the engine codes. I payed around 120$ for mine, but it does a little more. I still need to get a laptop version.

Anyway, for now just drive to an Autozone and have the current codes pulled so we can get moving on the real problem.

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=ST001&UserAction=displayStoreLocator

There's AutoZone's online Store Locator. Just put your zip code in (I used 20901 as a general SS zip since that area has a bunch

). I came up with approximately 10 AutoZone stores w/in a 10mi. radius so it shouldn't be too hard to find one nearby. If it comes down to it I have a buddy who owns a garage in Gaithersburg who may have a code reader, but I'll have to ask him tomorrow night when I see him. Hope this helps some...

Thank you, Johnny Bravo. I appreciate it. I'm going to drive to the Autozone in Laurel after work and get them to check it so I can get the code(s). I'll post as soon as I have it....or them. I sure hope that it's nothing. I've had enough car problems to make the average person keel over. It isn't like I drive like a bat out of hell either---ha ha. I'm very careful. I like the way that the 'Tour handles, it's the sheer cost of keeping the beast on the road that's killin' me. I don't like to employ the word 'Lemon' here, but I've often wondered why FORD no longer makes the Contour. Oh, by-the-way, once I get the code(s), and if need be, I hope that someone can recommend a mechanic that won't rip me off. Been there too many times.

Kind regards,
Paula

...you can pick up a scan tool for 79 at az..its basic but it'll pull the codes and leave out all the sensless guessing the scanner does.........or you can go to wally world buy it use it and return it..that my method with that store

Hi all!

Paula here...again

Just got back from Autozone in Laurel. They were real nice there. A gal came out and hooked the gadget up to my car to get the codes. Here they are:

P0401
&
P0402

I hope to crud that these are NOT 'danger' numbers--ha. Please, any advice you can give is greatly appreciated. Gentlemen, start your troubleshooting skills

! If there is any more information that I can provide, let me know. As stated prior, I just had a complete tune-up and oil change, along with fuel injectors cleaned. Thanks for all of your smarts!

Kind regards,
Paula

Is a po401 an ERG insufficent flow code...that is what I get from searching on the boards. Sounds like maybe when they cleaned the engine the ERG got some of the crud from the engine in it. What do you other people think

Originally posted by elraido:
Is a po401 an ERG insufficent flow code...that is what I get from searching on the boards. Sounds like maybe when they cleaned the engine the ERG got some of the crud from the engine in it. What do you other people think

Does a 98 Contour SE even have an EGR?

Okay
This is a little perplexing

P0401
EGR Insufficient flow detected (when by itself, a SIMPLE fix.)

P0402
EGR Excessive flow detected.

Are you absolutely sure that you read the codes/were told codes correctly?

I would think it posible to inverse a two numbers, perhaps an 0420? (Catalyst below efficiency.. caused by major vacuum leaks, which can also cause an 0401. (insifficient because there is a vacuum leak on the EGR.
Actually, I just received that combination of codes (0401/0420) a week ago...

Either way.. IF it is a 0401, 0420, then the things we will check for are:

vacuum leaks (tubes broken, etc)
faulty EGR valve
faulty DPFE (differential pressure feedback for the EGR)
(all DIY if you want to...)

Look in the engine bay and find the EGR valve. (It looks like a little silver UFO disk with a green vacuum tube connected to the top via a small rubber elbow.

Firstly: make sure that green tube isn't cracked, broken, or missing (warning: It will be very brittle, at this age of car, and you could break it if you aren't gentle when removing it from the top nipple of the EGR)

If the tube looks to be in good condition, and the length of tube (running to the back and in to a bundle of red/green tubes) looks great throughout, then do the following:

Remove the green vacuum tube from the top of the EGR. With the car running, apply a vacuum to the EGR nipple itself. (suck on the nipple.. yayaya I know it's the only time I can say suck and nipple on CEG without being rude...)
Does the car stumble and choke/die? (If so, then the EGR itself works great...) (Replace the tube on top of the EGR)

Next we need to check for TINY cracks in the vacuum tubes (so small you can't see them...)

All you do is start the car, and spray carbeurator starter spray in different areas of "vacuum tubes".. if the car stumbles, then the spray made its way in to a small crack in whichever area you sprayed.

If all of this fails, then the more common failure would be the DPFE.. if all those tests fail, then we'll walk you through the way to replace the DPFE.

If the codes are, in fact, 0401, and 0402.. then I can't think of ANYTHING to cause BOTH!!!

Ray

Okay, well.. check the EGR.

Hi Ray!

Thank you for your extensive notes. I am absolutely positive that the lady read the codes right. I was standing right there when she hooked it up. As far as the 'vacuuming' part, can I do this myself? And how and with what? I want to take care of this asap, if you can guide me through it, wonderful. I'll print your notes out today. I may not be able to get to it until tomorrow (Saturday) as I work today. This may be asking way too much, but does anybody here know anyone in the Silver Spring, MD area that I could trust to check this out? A gal I work with recommended Graves Autoshop in Olney and said they were pretty reliable. Who knows...

Kind regards,
Paula

If you are sure they are correct, then you can still test the EGR for proper operation, but I would lean towards a faulty DPFE unit sending signals that are out of range causing excessive and insufficient at the same time (though, they coul have easily happened apart from each other.. not ACTUALLY at the same time)

Like I stated. once you pull that green tube from the top of the EGR, suck on the nipple of the EGR.. (manually. with your mouth if you want!! ) The car should stumble and choke.

From there, test out the "small cracks" by spraying some carb starting spray in the area (careful not to let any spray enter in to the actual air filter, or the car will CERTAINLY stumble, obviously.. You don't want any false positives from that.

Then move on to the DPFE.
Location and removal/prices can be found by utilizing the search feature at the top of every page (next to "my home")
Just search under troubleshooting, and change your date range to "all" and the phrases to "and" (vice "entire phrase".. that would only find a result if it matched exactly...)

Ray

Hi Guys!

Paula here...again:-) Well, I actually decided to give Graeves Autoshop in Olney, Maryland a whirl. They were very nice and didn't charge me to take a look at it. The problem is, all they did was hook the car up to their machine and clear the CEL. They then took it for a spin and the light didn't come back on. I was happy to pick it up, but halfway home DAAAAAAAAAA DAHHHHHHHH!!!! The evil CEL reappeared

. So, it's back to the drawing board. What I'm going to do next is all of what Ray suggested. Hopefully, by doing some of those tests, I can figure out the problem. I shall keep you all posted. In the meantime, let's all pray to the great Contour God in the sky. Right now I'm off to watch America's Most Wanted

.

Oh, REAL QUICK...if I were to go and buy an EGR valve myself, about how much would that run? And would they have them at ANY auto parts store? Thanks!

Paula

If you WERE going to buy one, most parts stores should carry them... as for pricing:

Autozone's listing is as follows:

Wells EGR - Part# EGR284 $42.99
FELPRO gasket - part# 70149 $1.49

As a member of CEG, I cannot recommend that you EVER purchase parts ANYWHERE without first checking

Signature Lincoln Mercury (CEG members get a discount!) and talking to Bill Jenkins

or

contacting Steve at Tousley Ford (1-800-328-9552, mention his "SVT plan", you don't need an SVT to get the discount.. just merely mentioning the plan nets you about 50% (sometimes more) off..)

Call and price around! The Felpro is a new gasket that you will NEED to replace. (it is REALLY easy to replace the EGR)

Ray

I bet it's not the EGR and it's the DPFE instead. Those POS's fail a LOT on the Duratech.

I think Autozone carries them now too, according to todras. They might list them as an "EGR Flow Sensor" or something to that effect, because if you said "I need a new DPFE" They'd look at you like this:

Originally posted by Stazi:
Duratech.