I am experiencing both the throttle hang and moosing problem and am considering using the copper pipe fix. I have a 200 SVT and have heard there is a loss of power associated with this fix. Can anyone advise how severe the loss of power is and how noticable it is during daily driving. The throttle hang has not been too bad and the moosing seems to only occur during cold weather, so if the power loss ifs significant I may decide to just deal with these without the fix. Thanks
I don't have a SVT be I haven't noticed any loss in power with the fix, in fact I haven't heard that before, plus the dyno results I just got seem pretty good
Some have reported that they can feel the loss in power and others say it doesn't exist.
The TH fix is cheap and easy as well as easy to remove if you decide you don't like it.
Try it for yourself and see.
By the way, cleaning the IAC (and throttle body) sometimes helps get rid of the moose. You should do that anyway just for maintenance.
thank you both!!
Big Jim... I hate to admit it but i'm not too mechanically inclined. Could you please explain the procedure for cleaning the ISC and Throttle body as well as the locations of both of them. I tried doing a search but I didn't have any luck. Does anyone have any pics. Thanks again.
Man, i hate moosing... it was 30 degrees this morning on my way to work and my 99 svt was moosing out of control!!!! I am desperate to fix it but i need the motivation!! I'm going to have to check out the How-To again.
If the hole is big enough, you should have no problem. Get two caps and experiment with the size of the hole - just small enough to stop the moose, but not too small.
I remember reading once about moosing maybe in the faq or how to... but since we are talking about it. What exactly causes and is moosing?????
i think it has to do with the way the IAC controls the air flow to control idle
the hang is because the computer is programmed to keep it open a little to get better emission numbers
the moose happens when the air resonates and comes back out the intake, it can also cause stalling
link about throttle hang
link on moosing
Originally posted by brapple:
the moose happens when the air resonates and comes back out the intake, it can also cause stalling
link about throttle hang
link on moosing
Yup i've been close to stalling a few times! 
Originally posted by tonybox:
thank you both!!
Big Jim... I hate to admit it but i'm not too mechanically inclined. Could you please explain the procedure for cleaning the ISC and Throttle body as well as the locations of both of them. I tried doing a search but I didn't have any luck. Does anyone have any pics. Thanks again.
Wow, as many times as I have posted this and it still can't be found. Well, here it is again.
Throttle body clean.
Needed materials. Old toothbrush, spray can of throttle body cleaner, screwdriver to remove air intake tube for access.
Find throttle body. It is where air enters the engine after the air filter. Follow large black tube to throttle body. It is also where the throttle cable attaches to the engine.
Warm up engine.
Shut off engine.
Remove air intake tube from throttle body. Use screwdriver to loosen large hose clamp. Ignore label that says not to clean the throttle body. Do be a bit gentle in cleaning it so not to destroy the teflon coating that does help diminish the the deposits (but doesn't eliminate them). Hold throttle wide open (you may want to have an assistant inside the car hold the gas pedal down). Spray the inside of the throttle body, both the throttle bore and the throttle plate, with throttle body cleaner spray. Gently scrub with old toothbrush. Pay special attention to the black carbon ring in the bore just inside of the throttle plate. Gently scrub both sides of the throttle plate as well the top and bottom of the bore. Close throttle and check to see how well the front of the throttle plate is cleaned and continue cleaning if needed.
Reassemble the air intake tube. Start engine. You may need to hold the throttle open slightly while cranking to help clear the cleaner out of the cylinders. Expect the engine to run rough for a few moments until the cleaner is burned out of the cylinders.
This may be a good time to clean the PCV valve as well as the IAC. On the V6 the PCV valve is located below and slightly to the right of the throttle body. I've never found mine sludged up but I ocassionally spray some cleaner into it anyway. The IAC on the V6 is located on the top of the intake manifold at the back sort of near the throttle body. It is a mostly silver colored cylinder. It has a rubber tube attached to it that is about 1" in diameter. I have had success cleaning the valve by spraying cleaner into the tube with the engine running. You may need to hold the engine speed up so it doesn't stall. Many have found it better to actually remove the IAC to clean it. You may not notice anything particularly wrong with the IAC but it may still respond to cleaning. Sometimes it will not respond to cleaning if it has been sticking badly and will need to be replaced.
After you are finished with the cleaning and the engine is running normal and is warmed up, it may be helpful to clear the adaptive strategy from the PCM and start it toward good new habits. Disconnect the battery or pull fuses 4 & 11 for at least 5 minutes. Start the engine with the A/C off and hold the engine speed at about 2000 RPM for about 30 seconds, allow normal idle for about 30 seconds, turn on A/C and hold idle at about 2000 RPM for about 30 seconds, allow normal idle for about 30 seconds then drive mildly for about 5 minutes.
Here's a thread with pix!! Thanks to our friend lithium398: <S>
TB cleaning
Well, sort of.
That is about cleaning the EGR passages behind the throttle body and then cleaning the throttle body while it was off. My description was on how to clean the throttle body without taking it off.
Take it off if you feel you must, but you will not get it significantly cleaner. I've done it both ways.
on perhaps an unrelated note....my svt seems a little sluggish these days ( I have not done the TH fix). I was at a stop light today and noticed how effortlessly minivans and cars of the like would pull ahead of me. The car seems to rev a lot, but not much else. the old proverbial bark but no bite I guess
. Any ideas...Car has about 45k on it and was purchased with around 30k. The car is a certified preowned. All I have done is ad A k&N Air filter and routine oil changes. I'm assuming it has the original plugs and wires.
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Here's a thread with pix!! Thanks to our friend lithium398: <S>
TB cleaning
'
any pictures on how to fix the throttle hang??
Plugs are probably still good. I changed mine at multiples of 60,000 and the old one always looked good. The wires were not replaced until 150,000 miles and they still seemed fine.
I do suspect that besides cleaning the throttle body that you would benefit from cleaning the intake manifold. There is a FAQ for how to do it on the car.
http://www.contour.org/mods/mods.php?s=howto&displayid=43
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Here's a thread with pix!! Thanks to our friend lithium398: <S>
TB cleaning
'
any pictures on how to fix the throttle hang??
It is in the FAQ section.
http://www.contour.org/mods/mods.php?s=howto&displayid=34
ok seriously guys, don't laugh at me, I dont get it
Quote:
Turns out that "they all really do, do that." Sucks, but I concluded it is built into the smog calibration in the ECU as Furd always maintained . It's implemented
by the air bypass valve position which is controlled by the ECU. What this valve does is bleed air from the rubber intake connector tube prior to the throttle body directly into the manifold. This effectively controls RPM under various conditions.
The "throttle hang" fix consists of installing a restrictor plate in the form of a 1/2" COPPER pipe cap inserted INSIDE the 3/4" rubber hose that supplies air to the bypass air valve. The cap is inserted at the manifold end of the hose and fits either the original or Mr. Moose hose. It also has a black tank, about the size of a fruit
juice can, right under the throttle/CC cables. This plug has a hole drilled in it to provide sufficient air for idle RPM control but insufficient to maintain a RPM of in excess of 3K. The throttle drop is still slower than I would like but the "hang" is gone and that's a biggie.
For the SVT, or a car equipped with the SVT intake, the optimum hole size in the plug seems to be 3/16" or 7/32". For the stock intake, the best size seems to
be 15/64". There are reports that the plug causes newer SVT's (E1) to lose power in mid-range RPM's, perhaps due to the newer IAC valves? The addition of the throttle hange restrictor plug has been reported to also fix the
Mr. Moose (see related section on this page) issue without using the Ford Moose "bagpipe tube/hoses."
I removed the tank also but don't think this is necessary. I just pushed the plug into the 3/4" hose at the manifold end. For removal, a pair of pliers works well.
The first time I started it, the engine "hunted" before stabilizing at 750RPM idle. Did this for when the lights were on and the AC. The ECU is learning the new
position of the valve for maintaining the programmed RPM, which is normal. After two or three starts, it acts normal.
I would suggest getting several plugs-they're cheap-and trying different size holes. It needs to be just large enough to maintain cold or warm idle RPM's under worst case accessory loading. I assume this is cold day, cold start with the air on in defrost mode. Installing the plug is about a 3 min job once the hose is free and easily removable. Be sure it isn't cocked. Some WD-40 helps. It needs to be in far enough so that the hose fits on the nipple as per original. It will be too large to get into the mainfold.
I'm sooo lost, any summary of that would be appreciated 
Read thru Ray McNary's explanation (with pictures) that I linked to above. That may help.
Originally posted by Big Jim:
Read thru Ray McNary's explanation (with pictures) that I linked to above. That may help.
thats what it was!! their too many dimension, am I suppose to put a tiny ring somehere, I dont get it, I seriously dont 
OK, lets try this. The idle air control valve is used to control the idle speed. It does so by controlling some air around the throttle plate. On some earlier systems this was done by controlling the throttle plate, but those mechanism were awkward and inneffecient.
On your car, the air coming into the idle air control valve comes thru a large hose on the side of the idle air control. The throttle hang cure restricts the air that can enter the idle air control valve. A copper plug is used. A hole is drilled in the copper plug restrictor plate as a means of limiting how much air can enter during high demand but still provide enough for normal ilde speed control.
Did that help or did it just muddy the water?
speaking of moosing....I have the 'bagpipe' setup on my 98 CSVT. Does this mean the moosing has already been fixed?
I was looking into doing the copper cap fix but there isn't as much tube to shove the cap into due to the bends immediately outside the entrance to the intake.
I have a 2000 as well,I just put the copper cap back in mine. It was moosing so loud,it turned heads. I noticed a significant loss in mid range power,and it does not pull as hard through the RPM's.I also notice the pronounced drop in RPM's when you let off the gas under acceleration.(which I guess is what it is supposed to do.)I take mine out during warmer weather,but it started hitting the low 40's here in Ohio,and that's when my moose comes out of hibernation. You just have to live with the noise or the lack of power!
Rod
Tonybox, if minivans pull away from you, i would check out the IMRC, if thats bad, then you have no power.
2kSVT - try widening the hole in the cap. Sounds like yours is too restricting. The hole size in the FAQ is just a recommendation as every car is different.
I think i'll live with the moosing for now. Besides it only really happens to me in the morning... for the rest of the day its fine... besides everytime mine starts moosing i just rev her up and it shuts that moose down right away!
What DOES moosing sound like? We don't have moose down here in Texas.
Originally posted by Majisto:
What DOES moosing sound like? We don't have moose down here in Texas.
trust me you would know if you heard it
Are our Contour IACs the same as other Ford IACs? On my dad's Explorer, the IAC valve has a black plastic cover on the side that can be taken off. When you take it off, you can stick your hand over it, and cause this horribly loud, and very strange sound to come out from it.
It does somehwat sound like a moose call (More like a foghorn though). I'll see if I can find the video when one of the members of Explorer 4X4 did this.
Originally posted by brapple:
Originally posted by Majisto:
What DOES moosing sound like? We don't have moose down here in Texas.
trust me you would know if you heard it
Trust me you don't want to know
I don't know if this could be related at all but... when i had the hood open the other day and hit the gas i heard a poof sound coming from the egine compartment. everytime i hit the gas from idle I would hear this sound. Is this normal in the CSVT or could it be some kind of air leak that may be causing my power loss. Thanks again for the input.
Originally posted by Majisto:
Here we go...listen to this and tell me if this is the same thing. http://homepage.mac.com/dogfriend/iMovieTheater14.html
Yep - that's a moosecall!
just to be more specific. it wasnt the usual hummuing sound that the mooose makes. it was more of a puff of air sound right before the engine would rev. it was weird becase I wouls hit the gas and the engine sounded like it was gasping for air , and then a second later would finally rev. There was defintitley a delay in the time i hit the gas to the time the engine would rev. Does'nt seem normal. Has anyone experienced this?
Yes the beginning of that video is definately the MOOSE!
Cueball,I was thinking the same thing. I had 2 caps one with each size hole as listed in the How-To.At the time the larger of the 2 seemed to be better.I'm gonna make it a little bigger,hopefully get my power back!
You guys that live where it is warm...be very glad the Moose doesn't live under your hood...boy is it embarrassing when you coworker with the WRX comes over to listen to the new cat-back and all he hears is the Moose
I have heard that replacing the hose that goes between the accordian tube and the ISC with a longer 2ft hose has been used in the past to "kill the moose". Has anyone here tried this and if so waht were the results. Will this also fix the Trottle hang problem?
Originally posted by tonybox:
I have heard that replacing the hose that goes between the accordian tube and the ISC with a longer 2ft hose has been used in the past to "kill the moose". Has anyone here tried this and if so waht were the results. Will this also fix the Trottle hang problem?
It's actually more like a 3 foot length & it is usually not used because you'll have a coil of tubing under the hood. kinda ugly compared to a hidden copper cap in the hose to the IAC valve.
Additionally, it will NOT cure the TH issues, so the copper cap solves two problems, the length of hose only kills the moose.
Originally posted by CueballSVT:
Originally posted by Majisto:
Here we go...listen to this and tell me if this is the same thing. http://homepage.mac.com/dogfriend/iMovieTheater14.html
Yep - that's a moosecall!
That sounds like the moose I killed when I put the SVT air box and associated air intake components on my '96 SE. There is a small resonator chamber teed into the line running from the air intake tube to the IAB. This chamber killed my moose and he hasn't come back yet.
I am considering using the 2 inch piece of 3/8 fuel line hose inserted in the hose instead if he copper cap. some have reported it has less "side effects". Could this be used in conjunction with the longer 3 foot replacement hose. Will there be any added benefits ar is it just a waste of time?
just did the TH fix on my 2000 SVT and it cured the moosing with no noticeable power loss... took about 5 minutes to do.
okay, so i just did the throttle body clean and sprayed some carb cleaner into the IAC. I installed the 3 foot hose to fix the moose and so far so good. Only problem is I decided to reset the PCM...and when I looked for fuse 4 there is'nt one. is this possible. What does fuse 4 do?
Good thing i live in Mi where it never gets cold enough to moose...
*Waves fist at sky*
interesting thing about my moose.......it must be purposely induced rather than occurring based on the weather. gotta love so cal. it only happens if you are sitting idle and rev up the engine. better yet, the rpm that this happens at changed when my buddy adjusted the airbox. the tab on the bottom of the air box was broken so he rigged somethng up with a piece of coat hanger and the moose moved.
on a side note......you should have seen my uncle and i outside xmas eve scratching our heads trying to figure out what this was and why this happens, before i found ceg. it was funny (to me), the rest of the family was inside having a nice family gathering and we were outside screwing with my car.
WOW..I just fixed my problem yesterday, or atleast I think I did, I did feel a difference though, a little. I reseted the computer and stuff. This morning I go to start my car, as soon as it starts, the RPM's are suppose to go a little high and then drop badck down to like 1.2k rpm's cause its cold out, well this time it starts and drops riiiight down to 750rpm?!?! what the hell is that?? what did I do wrong?
Originally posted by dutchie:
speaking of moosing....I have the 'bagpipe' setup on my 98 CSVT. Does this mean the moosing has already been fixed?
I was looking into doing the copper cap fix but there isn't as much tube to shove the cap into due to the bends immediately outside the entrance to the intake.
The bagpipe setup was Ford's poor attempt at a fix. If you can't find a place to insert the pipe cap, you might need to replace the existing bagpipe assembly with the straight hose from the later models. Keep in mind that the cap can be placed anywhere in the assembly between the intake tube and the IAC valve - it doesn't have to be immediately in front of the valve. Not sure if that helps.
Quote:
This morning I go to start my car, as soon as it starts, the RPM's are suppose to go a little high and then drop badck down to like 1.2k rpm's cause its cold out, well this time it starts and drops riiiight down to 750rpm?!?! what the hell is that?? what did I do wrong?
By restricting the flow of air to the IAC valve, the pipe cap is doing exactly what it should. You might want to experiment with a slightly larger hole in order to allow a slightly higher cold idle. I tried 3 different sizes until I found a happy medium between allowing a high idle vs. hearing the moose.
Originally posted by Viss1:
Quote:
This morning I go to start my car, as soon as it starts, the RPM's are suppose to go a little high and then drop badck down to like 1.2k rpm's cause its cold out, well this time it starts and drops riiiight down to 750rpm?!?! what the hell is that?? what did I do wrong?
By restricting the flow of air to the IAC valve, the pipe cap is doing exactly what it should. You might want to experiment with a slightly larger hole in order to allow a slightly higher cold idle. I tried 3 different sizes until I found a happy medium between allowing a high idle vs. hearing the moose.
thats what I thought, I'll try a bigger hole
I recently cleaned my IAC and TB as well as replaced the hose between the IAC and accordian tube with a 3 foot hose to kill the moose nd the nreset the PCM....Now my car is constantly stalling almost every time I come to a stop. My gas is near fuel so i'm pretty sure it's not the fuel pump. There is no CEL. To clean the IAC, I left it on and then just sprayed some carb cleaner in while the engine was running.I can't remember if it only does it with my foot on the clutch or not, but it always seems too hapen when i'm coming to a stop. I never had this problem before I did the above work. SOMEONE PLEASE HELP!!!!