FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE READ THIS...
I have had two people complain to THEIR BANKS OR PAYPAL THAT I WAS CONDUCTING FRAUDULENT ACTIVITIES AGAINST THEM.
I-Dom-In-8 - for a case resolved in HIS FAVOR for $360.80
and now AbdulWahab Mouallem - "abwamo" on CEG - Amount $673.05 for the body kit
LOOK, I KNOW YOU ALL GOT SCREWED AND SO DID I - DON'T YOU GUYS REALIZE YOU PAID ME?!?!?!?! In good faith to give the money to CHRIS!?!! I DID WHAT YOU ASKED ME TO - DO NOT DO THIS.
I-Dom-In-8 has already taken my money and ignores me in the forums and never returns EMAILS OR PMs.
I'M IN $7000 WORTH OF DEBT over this KAOTIC DISASTER AND YOU GUYS ARE NOT HELPING!!!!!
I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE - STOP SEEKING COMPENSATION THROUGH ME - I CAN'T HANDLE THIS ANY MORE!!! I SWEAR I FEEL LIKE GETTING IN MY CAR AND RUNNING OVER A CLIFF RIGHT NOW. I HATE THIS [censored]' CAR I HATE KAOTIC I HATE CHRIS I HATE ANDYS.... FUC*N SH!T...
I TRY MY HARDEST TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND IT ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH?!?!?! I'VE NEVER SCREWED ANYONE HERE NOR IS IT IN MY NATURE!!!
IF BOTH OF THESE GO THROUGH I WILL NOW BE OUT - $1033.85
I've had a perfect credit rating until this happened. Look I am not at all responsible - I tried to help... you all know I did...
someone please help
Close your Paypal account.
Hopefully there are no funds in the account.
Walk away
I can't close it they're holding it open
close your bank acct and tell pay pal your a victom of idenity theft
Hey bro...not trying to be mean....But you do understand that by acepting the responsibility to give the money to Kaotic, that you put yourself in a situation where you could be accountable to.
Reason being is because the Paypal and Checks were made to you, so you recieved the money...all thoes who paid you directly have every right by CA law to go after you.
All thoes who paied KAOTIC directly only have the right to go after KAOTIC. All though in some cases (altough rare) they can go after you depending in certain things. (i ahve read about it).
If people come after you, and they gave you money, then they have every right to...you put your self in the situation when you acepted 3rd party resonsibility to give the money to Kaotic. And in most cases because you are the 3rd party it can never be traced back to the other party involved (Kaotic) you take the heat.
Had you said to send money to the Manufatur, had never take resonsibility for it and if you had covered your bases clearly wording your intentions (if you had done all 3)
EXample: " IM not taking responsibiitly for the money, mearly putting people in touch with the manufaturer for the group buy and so you may pay him directly."
if you had done the above, mostlikly you would have nevered been put into the situation you are now.
like i said im not trying to be mean, im telling you what you need to hear...the truth...Its on the other people if they call you a Fraud or not...thats there take on the matter.
But either way, since you took resposibility to give the money to Kaotic,casue they gave it to you and made checks out to you, they can come for you.
Its not what you want to hear, i know, but its the truth, and theres no way around it.
And you can ask people to hold off but you can't stop them to.
And personaly, NAMING people who have take action against you and makeing it public on the boards is insulting and in poor taste on your part.
They did what they felt was right, and it seems like your bashin them for it by publicly naming them.
Lupe
Originally posted by lowbudgetracing:
close your bank acct and tell pay pal your a victom of idenity theft
Wouldn't that be fraudulent? I don't think the lie would hold up very long.
since paypal is online only anyone with the right info(acct#,address,ect) on a person could start a paypal acct conect it with their bank account and the person would not know about it unless they see the activity on their monthly statement.
im shure it happens all the time.
Thanks for coming out - look... legally yeah this and that
Look, why doesn't everybody just call fraud on me - atleast you all will be happy. IT WAS OUTLINED THAT I WAS ACCEPTING PAYMENT TO TRANSFER TO KAOTIC. This was expressed before anybody sent me money - I have the old Kaotic website on file stating how the payment system would work.
Look - i'm in a very very bad situation. And these people are making it worse for me - I don't care about the law, whatever happened to freggin compassion for a down and out HUMAN BEING?? Instead of fighting for a solution the easy thing to do is go after someone who is an easier target.
That's not the way it should be - I don't care if that's how it is cuz of some damn lawyer who wrote the rules say it is so. I'm asking for help, the right thing is not being done and i'm getting screwed more and more.
Lupe I know you're not being mean - I know that's how the law works in our state. Understand what I am going through - I have no job, i'm in debt and I have a huge paper weight racking up bills sitting in a garage in Sacramento. You all know what i'm asking...
any ways..if i go insane lowbudgetracing can have my SVT
God this sux.
So what are you doing to go after Chris? You are responsible for the money people sent you, and Chris is responsible for the money sent to him. Do somethin instead of whining, you could have closed this deal long ago had you paid more attention to your car to begin with.
Originally posted by livinsvt:
So what are you doing to go after Chris? You are responsible for the money people sent you, and Chris is responsible for the money sent to him. Do somethin instead of whining, you could have closed this deal long ago had you paid more attention to your car to begin with.
Thats exactly how it works....You need to go after the person who you gave the money.
You cna't just sit here and keep asking people to get off your back...thats not how it works...its a fact of life.
Legaly you can go after him...you give a lawer the infomation and even if he closed shop, they can usualy track it down.
i know you want people off you back and i understand your financial situation, but its not going to happen..Livinsvt is right, you need to take action against Chris. if you don';t its going to get even uglier.
you can't keep "whinning" like Livinsvt said...action needs to be taken so you need to seek advice of professional council.
But believe me i know how you feel...i was in the same situation like you, but at a much smaller scale.
Lupe
Originally posted by Roz 1999 SVT-C:
Originally posted by livinsvt:
So what are you doing to go after Chris? You are responsible for the money people sent you, and Chris is responsible for the money sent to him. Do somethin instead of whining, you could have closed this deal long ago had you paid more attention to your car to begin with.
Thats exactly how it works....You need to go after the person who you gave the money.
You cna't just sit here and keep asking people to get off your back...thats not how it works...its a fact of life.
Legaly you can go after him...you give a lawer the infomation and even if he closed shop, they can usualy track it down.
i know you want people off you back and i understand your financial situation, but its not going to happen..Livinsvt is right, you need to take action against Chris. if you don';t its going to get even uglier.
you can't keep "whinning" like Livinsvt said...action needs to be taken so you need to seek advice of professional council.
But believe me i know how you feel...i was in the same situation like you, but at a much smaller scale.
Lupe
I just don't see the point in going after a person that dosen't have your money.
This is the Cali attitude and laws that I hate. This is why I would never open a business in Cali.
I'm such a drama queen.
Sorry - you know when you're that mad and can't think straight? Yeah... me
Any ways. A friend took me out so I can cool off. I also talked to a lawyer.
Sorry about the emotional outburst - this has just never happened to me and I've always been on top of everything in my life and this is the first time I didn't have contrl of it so I got out of hand.
I think the endorphins and testosterone are coming back to normal levels - I would still run over Chris in a heart beat though
I respect everyone for saying what I had to hear and not what I wanted to hear though. I know you all have an idea of how I feel and what I must be going through - thanks.
(I have that feeling like you're on vicidin..oh wait... I am on vicidin.... wooooooooooooooooooooo)
no really, i'm okay. Thanks though..sorry for offending anybody - if a MOD feels like deleting this post go for it.
Originally posted by onosway:
any ways..if i go insane lowbudgetracing can have my SVT
God this sux.
awsome
realy though you should get a lawyer and work with the people who got ripped off and sue kaotic as a group that way you might get your money back and give the people that got riped off another course of action other then going after you.
if you cant aford a lawer just call around till you find one that will wait till the case is over to get paid,or if you dont win he dosent get paid,and sue for lawyer fees as well.
I agree with you it is stupid.......but what else are people supposted to do...think of it this way...
if you order a TV through Best Buy and they tell you it will take 6 to 8 weeks because its back order from the manufatur.
5 months go buy and they tv still is not delievered...are you going to go after the manufatur??? No you going to go after the people you gave the money too.
Give the situation is a little bit more diffrent than that in this case, but its the mentaliy people have.
i never said it was right..its just the way things are.
lupe
Originally posted by lowbudgetracing:
awsome realy though you should get a lawyer and work with the people who got ripped off and sue kaotic as a group that way you might get your money back and give the people that got riped off another course of action other then going after you.
Power in numbers man. A group lawsuit would have more power than just one person. I mentioned this a long time ago when that gb went bad a did a lot of others. Kinda surprised no one got it together.
That sucks nirish,,, don't worry though I won't be trying to get my $75 back from you (I think I sent it to Terry anyways),, but hey, Terry sorta disappeared and I wouldn't be suprised if he was in on the whole thing either, so can I try to get my money back through paypal from him?
lets go after them, nirish can u do us a favor and find out how much it would all cost.
Since I graduated I do have more time to pursue this (remember I couldn't get to involved in the past). I'll let you know how it's going - I'm going to get in contact with Bill (KnuKoncepts) since he was getting ground with it but hes only one man.
For those hurt please PM me your current information - full name, new addresses and email, damages. I want to keep it off the boards for a while and will remain in contact over PMs and email.
If you know ppl that were hurt but not on the boards let me know. I can't help those who paid Terry but I'll find out what we can do - i need to get in contact with Bill first.
PM sent.
Now, what do we do about that THIEF Terry Knight, Jr. - "hellahydro / hydro"
I have his work address and phone #.
I have called him over 10 times - receptionist asks who's calling and I get voice mail.
Originally posted by onosway:
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE READ THIS...
I have had two people complain to THEIR BANKS OR PAYPAL THAT I WAS CONDUCTING FRAUDULENT ACTIVITIES AGAINST THEM.
I-Dom-In-8 - for a case resolved in HIS FAVOR for $360.80
and now AbdulWahab Mouallem - "abwamo" on CEG - Amount $673.05 for the body kit
LOOK, I KNOW YOU ALL GOT SCREWED AND SO DID I - DON'T YOU GUYS REALIZE YOU PAID ME?!?!?!?! In good faith to give the money to CHRIS!?!! I DID WHAT YOU ASKED ME TO - DO NOT DO THIS.
I-Dom-In-8 has already taken my money and ignores me in the forums and never returns EMAILS OR PMs.
I'M IN $7000 WORTH OF DEBT over this KAOTIC DISASTER AND YOU GUYS ARE NOT HELPING!!!!!
I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE - STOP SEEKING COMPENSATION THROUGH ME - I CAN'T HANDLE THIS ANY MORE!!! I SWEAR I FEEL LIKE GETTING IN MY CAR AND RUNNING OVER A CLIFF RIGHT NOW. I HATE THIS [censored]' CAR I HATE KAOTIC I HATE CHRIS I HATE ANDYS.... FUC*N SH!T...
I TRY MY HARDEST TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND IT ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH?!?!?! I'VE NEVER SCREWED ANYONE HERE NOR IS IT IN MY NATURE!!!
IF BOTH OF THESE GO THROUGH I WILL NOW BE OUT - $1033.85
I've had a perfect credit rating until this happened. Look I am not at all responsible - I tried to help... you all know I did...
someone please help
From: onosway
I see that you have made a case against me for the Kaotic Group Buy - You know I am not responsible for what has happened. If you go through with this I will be out the money you are seeking - NOT KAOTIC. Please tell paypal not to charge this case against me - it is not fair!!
I have no money to give you and I am in severe debt because of the actions of Chris Croft and Kaotic Innovations.
I have done everything I can to help and yet I do not exist to Andys, Kaotic or Paypal as an innocent party.
Re: charge back case
Sent to: onosway
No i didn't make a case against anybody.
i just called my credit card company and told them what happened. i had to supply all the information on the site so i can get a refund "thru their cutomer protection program".
They refunded me the money that i lost and I was told that they will try to collect from Kaotic and i don't have to deal with this case at all.
I'm sorry if they are going after you, i honestly have nothing to do with the case; its my MasterCard company that is trying to get to the bottom of this and get their money back.
Originally posted by abwamo:
Re: charge back case
Sent to: onosway
No i didn't make a case against anybody.
i just called my credit card company and told them what happened. i had to supply all the information on the site so i can get a refund "thru their cutomer protection program".
They refunded me the money that i lost and I was told that they will try to collect from Kaotic and i don't have to deal with this case at all.
I'm sorry if they are going after you, i honestly have nothing to do with the case; its my MasterCard company that is trying to get to the bottom of this and get their money back.
You have nothing to appologize for. I wish I could get my $$ back as easily as you seem to be getting yours.
That's not the right way to do it and i'm fighting it. I acted in good faith and pooled the money properly and transfered it exactly as outlined on the website. Those that paid understood the circumstances and I have everything documented so I'm not wrong. It's just a headache to go through this when i'm not responsible.
The more people WHO GIVE UP LIKE THIS the less strength we have. Many other people paid cashier check/money order or other means and if we don't have the support of the group we'll fail in getting what we want. I think it's selfish - especially since it hurts me who helped get this off the ground.
Anyways - thanks to all those who messaged me for support.
Take him to small claims court if he is still around....Only cost you 50 dollars or so......I did this with a certain satellite company and I won.....
Bob
Originally posted by onosway:
The more people WHO GIVE UP LIKE THIS the less strength we have.
I'd hardly consider taking action to get your money back "giving up"... perhaps this will give you some impetus to do the same?
Hey man, i'm sorry for youre pain, but you can't blame people that want their money back. If i call a lawyer or start something, they come after you since thats who I gave my money to. it should be up to you to go after Kaotic, I know it doesnt seem like you should be held responsible, but no matter who I told my situation to they told me to call Paypal and get my money back. For you to sit there and call people out on the forums is insane and childish. It was not his fault the buy didn't go through, these guys just wanted to get THIER money back now your going to sit there and post thier names on the board.
onosway:
i wasnt around when the kaotic thing went down, but i took the liebrty of reading the ENTIRE thread on it, yes all 39 pages of it. it sounds to me like you got screwed more than they did. i am sorry its going down like this, but you have to realize something. you were the liason for the 3rd party. it was your responsibilty to make sure the funding was used in the proper manner, and returned if nessecary (and it did become nessecary shortly after the KI GB started). by procureing the funding you put yourself in a position of liability. paypal know not what they do, the dont know how this [censored] went down, all they know is that they have 2 dissastisfied customers who filed a complaint and that complait has to be taken care of. i do not believe the 2 parties you mentioned in the above posts are out to get YOU, they just wanted their $$$ back. the told paypal and/or their CC companies and those compnies decided that you were the one that was liable.
Originally posted by Bk4293:
Hey man, i'm sorry for youre pain, but you can't blame people that want their money back. If i call a lawyer or start something, they come after you since thats who I gave my money to. it should be up to you to go after Kaotic, I know it doesnt seem like you should be held responsible, but no matter who I told my situation to they told me to call Paypal and get my money back. For you to sit there and call people out on the forums is insane and childish. It was not his fault the buy didn't go through, these guys just wanted to get THIER money back now your going to sit there and post thier names on the board.
YEP. I think you should apologize for posting thier names on a public forum. I hope more people files claims against you. Try telling the judge that you had nothing to do with this groupbuy except for collecting money. get your lawyer and start building your case.
Why don't you go after Chris Croft...you are in Cali.
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Why don't you go after Chris Croft...you are in Cali.
My thoughts exactly, unless he has no reason to.. 
Originally posted by unknown:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Why don't you go after Chris Croft...you are in Cali.
My thoughts exactly, unless he has no reason to..
Hmmmm! let see! somebody volunteers to collect $10,000 + for a company that he has no part of or has no idea that they scam hard work'n people for their money???? not a good decission if ya ask me! 
(just my thoughts of course)
sorry people but I'm gonna have to agree with the guy that its wrong.
Wanting your money back is fine...wanting your money back and not caring how you get it is another thing.
You don't put someone else in debt because you want your money back, especially if he was not the one who ripped you off. Instead of going after Kaotic, you're just trying to get your money back by any means necessary and it really isn't right when you end up hurting someone who helped you out.
Knowing that he was handling money, u guys should have been aware of the terms and conditions and how everything was working...if something goes wrong you know good and well who to go after and why, and he is not it.
Sorry that you guys think he should be held responsible but I just don't think so...and if he called them out on the forums, oh well.
Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
sorry people but I'm gonna have to agree with the guy that its wrong.
Wanting your money back is fine...wanting your money back and not caring how you get it is another thing.
You don't put someone else in debt because you want your money back, especially if he was not the one who ripped you off. Instead of going after Kaotic, you're just trying to get your money back by any means necessary and it really isn't right when you end up hurting someone who helped you out.
Knowing that he was handling money, u guys should have been aware of the terms and conditions and how everything was working...if something goes wrong you know good and well who to go after and why, and he is not it.
Sorry that you guys think he should be held responsible but I just don't think so...and if he called them out on the forums, oh well.
I wasn't in on this GB (thank god) but from what I remember reading in that [painfully long thread before Nirish (onosway) was the one who set this gb up through Kaotic. The minute he did that and started collecting money he became partly responsible...that's pretty mucb basic busniess law I believe.
If you buy a sony dvd player from Walmart and get home and the box is empty do you go after Sony? No you go back to Walmart. Not the greatest analogy but it's close I guess.
My personal opinion on thie (which may get me flamed but so be it) from what I saw once everythign went bad nirish just kinda stopped caring. Refusing to get on ceg and update everyone because he was too stressed by all the pissed off people that wanted their product THEY PAID FOR etc. Once it got worse I remember him posting about going down there and how f'ed up his car was etc. Seemed to me like his car was his major concern and everyone else was on their onw at that point. Maybe if he had woprked a bit harder at going after Kaotic and got everyone onboard (since he was the starter of this GB)then everyone would have their money back, his car would be fixed, and everything would be just fine. Those people went through paypal or their credit card companies to get theior money back and rightly so. If those companies went after nirish then there was obviously a legal recourse to do so and they shouold not be faulted for it. It's sad that nirish got caught in the middle but that's called taking responsibility for something you started.
AGES ago I posted that I had a lwayer friend I would ask about a group lawsuit if nirish and the rest wanted to do it. I got a whole ZERO pms about it so I don't really see where he was trying too hard to get anything accomplished other than getting his car taken care of. i don't see how anyone can be blamed for wanting their hard earned money back.
I don't know, maybe I feel more sorry for him than anything.
But I feel he is more of a victim than any of the other people involved in this. I mean hes out a hell of alot more than $650 for an ugly ass body kit...and I'm pretty sure he had no idea it was gonna turn out like this.
Might be "the law" but I just don't think he should be stuck with some of the bill when he was just trying to help everyone out. People should be trying to get their money back from Kaotic, the company who screwed them.
btw just thought I'd throw this in here but all this hype and all this drama and that kit is f!ckin ugly, sorry to say.
Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
I don't know, maybe I feel more sorry for him than anything.
But I feel he is more of a victim than any of the other people involved in this. I mean hes out a hell of alot more than $650 for an ugly ass body kit...and I'm pretty sure he had no idea it was gonna turn out like this.
Might be "the law" but I just don't think he should be stuck with some of the bill when he was just trying to help everyone out. People should be trying to get their money back from Kaotic, the company who screwed them.
btw just thought I'd throw this in here but all this hype and all this drama and that kit is f!ckin ugly, sorry to say.
IMO and only IMO, I am not convinced he was not in on this whole thing.
Say what you want but if I had paid him my $650, he would be the party responsible for refunding it to me. As it turns out I did not pay him my $650 and I am persuing the person in which I did pay. Common sense if you ask me.
Originally posted by Sneaku:
Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
sorry people but I'm gonna have to agree with the guy that its wrong.
Wanting your money back is fine...wanting your money back and not caring how you get it is another thing.
You don't put someone else in debt because you want your money back, especially if he was not the one who ripped you off. Instead of going after Kaotic, you're just trying to get your money back by any means necessary and it really isn't right when you end up hurting someone who helped you out.
Knowing that he was handling money, u guys should have been aware of the terms and conditions and how everything was working...if something goes wrong you know good and well who to go after and why, and he is not it.
Sorry that you guys think he should be held responsible but I just don't think so...and if he called them out on the forums, oh well.
I wasn't in on this GB (thank god) but from what I remember reading in that [painfully long thread before Nirish (onosway) was the one who set this gb up through Kaotic. The minute he did that and started collecting money he became partly responsible...that's pretty mucb basic busniess law I believe.
If you buy a sony dvd player from Walmart and get home and the box is empty do you go after Sony? No you go back to Walmart. Not the greatest analogy but it's close I guess.
My personal opinion on thie (which may get me flamed but so be it) from what I saw once everythign went bad nirish just kinda stopped caring. Refusing to get on ceg and update everyone because he was too stressed by all the pissed off people that wanted their product THEY PAID FOR etc. Once it got worse I remember him posting about going down there and how f'ed up his car was etc. Seemed to me like his car was his major concern and everyone else was on their onw at that point. Maybe if he had woprked a bit harder at going after Kaotic and got everyone onboard (since he was the starter of this GB)then everyone would have their money back, his car would be fixed, and everything would be just fine. Those people went through paypal or their credit card companies to get theior money back and rightly so. If those companies went after nirish then there was obviously a legal recourse to do so and they shouold not be faulted for it. It's sad that nirish got caught in the middle but that's called taking responsibility for something you started.
AGES ago I posted that I had a lwayer friend I would ask about a group lawsuit if nirish and the rest wanted to do it. I got a whole ZERO pms about it so I don't really see where he was trying too hard to get anything accomplished other than getting his car taken care of. i don't see how anyone can be blamed for wanting their hard earned money back.
i also have a family member who is involved with business law and has done sutes for these type of situations....I to offered him the smae thing you did.
I even passed along infomation form my uncle to him..(of course stating that proper legal consultation must be done with him directly) After that, i heard nothing baout it...Now i will say this, though i have posted 'against him" i have had the oppotunity of meeting him and to me he is an Upstanding person who i believe meet no harm or mis-deed.
i really do feel bad for his miss fourtune. Like i stated before, i was in a similar situation but on a a lot smaller scale....and ZETEC, i really do agree with your principals, but the reason i stated what i did, was becasue he cannot sit around and just do nothing....HE MUST TAKE LEGAL ACTION AGAINST KAOTIC (or Chris).... the law may not be fair in his case...but it also gives him the right to go after Kaotic (or the owner in this case) to recoupe monetary losses, even if they shut down...he needs to take that and go with it....the law should be on his side in this case!
Lupe