Gas just reached a high point here today.....
$1.89 a gallon
..CT
How much is gas where you live?
I hope it comes down soon or we are in trouble
Matt
Id love 1.89 here in CA...right now the most expesive in my area is 2.02 for 87.....while the highest is 2.50 for 91.
Roz
I'm out in the High Desert of CA this week. Gas is in the neighborhood of $2.25/gallon for regular.
1.59-1.65 for 87 in Oklahoma
Can anyone say "drill on the artic slope". It's time to start buying our oil elsewhere, drilling more holes on our own turf and tell the Saudi's and the environmental freaks to shovel up the a$$es!!
Originally posted by Sarge43:
Can anyone say "drill on the artic slope". It's time to start buying our oil elsewhere, drilling more holes on our on turf and tell the environmental freaks to shovel up the a$$es!!
Right... 
Why dont we find another source of energy. If we are already running out, its only a matter of time before its all gone. We should be at least a qaurter way through a change from oil to alternative fuel. We are just hurting ourselves and kids in the long run. What happens when its gone???? 
You dont have to be a enviromentalist to see what is happening 
...
Matt
Why are gas prices so high?
1.OPEC just CUT production for at least the second time this year, at least one of the cuts was for 5%
2.World demand is up (China)
3.We (USA) are adding to are national reserve of crude oil. (very good idea) the plan is to have over a years supply of oil on hand. This will give us (USA) more leverage when OPEC plays games. Let's be honest if the middle east wanted to F---k with us they could, just turn off the tap like in the 70's. And that's what they are doing now, just a little flexing.. to see if we twitch. OPEC is not happy about our reserves.. so when OPEC talks about the world Oil SURPLUS this is what they are talking about.
4. It's almost election time and this is called dirty politics.
About Alaska:
When you have a limited supply of a product (oil) use someone else's first. Then when you are the only person with oil left you can charge what you want.
Also the amount of oil in Alaska is not a lot when you look at the amount of oil we use. The more oil we produce the less oil OPEC produces (to keep prices high) so the net effect on gas prices it Zero. Except then we are importing less (trade imbalance), but lets save that for another rant.
If this country had a "Real" energy policy to make us independent of energy imports then I would so go for it! But until then I say keep the oil in the bank it's a good investment.
I do not know it this is true or not but I read that if all cars in the USA got 40Mpg then we would not have to import any oil or drill any more wells. I do not know if all car's can get 40Mpg and be viable transportation for there intended use???
And do not even get me started on SUV's Aaaaaaaaaargh.
O'... and just another comment and this is a real kicker... The Major OPEC countries (Saudi Arabia for one) want financial-aid if and when we develope true alterative fuels. If I recall correctly our goverment (USA) may???? have agreed??? or was considering agreeing.
Originally posted by MattB:
Gas just reached a high point here today.....
$1.89 a gallon ..CT
How much is gas where you live?
I hope it comes down soon or we are in trouble
Matt
Gas here for 87 is $1.79 a gallon.
By the way to the person talking about waiting till the other countries run out of oil. Remember back in 70s they said by 2000 all the oil would be gone, now they say 290 years. They keep finding more and more oil all the time. If we drilled into the Alaska reverse we would see gas prices drop. Which in turn would give people more money to spend on goods which would then help the economy.
The US has it so easy on gas prices relative to the rest of the world, anyway. I mean, we really do.
40 MPG with today's technology would mean we'd all have to drive hybrid cars like the Prius, conventional gasoline cars with very tiny engines (think 3 cyl. Geo Metro), or small diesels, like the VW TDI. While these cars will suffice for many people, I don't think most Americans would be happy with them. 40 MPG would mean no pickups or SUV's, and where I live, those account for 75% of the vehicles on the road. I think the answer lies in alternative fuels, such as CNG or hydrogen. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of natural gas reserves, which would allow us to make the easiest conversion to non-petroleum powered vehicles. Electric vehicles aren't really practical until someone develops a truly long range battery pack. Hydrogen shows promise, but its going to take years of development to get the vehicles and the infrastructure in place. And remember, the big boys in the oil companies like their fat salaries and aren't enthusastic about the country weaning itself of its oil dependence.
You guys are just starting to catch up to what we pay here. Europe is another story.
Gas here is a $1.67 for 87
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If we drilled into the Alaska reverse we would see gas prices drop. Which in turn would give people more money to spend on goods which would then help the economy.
Prices wouldn't change at all.
If our supply increased, dropping prices, 1 of 2 things would happen making everything balance out in the end:
1> The recent trend of some people towards fuel-conservative cars would change, increasing demand and raising prices back to what they are now.
2> OPEC would respond to our increased domestic output with higher prices on thier fuel. And, no matter how much we pump out of Alaska, we'd still need a LOT of their fuel. If we drop our imports of their fuels in half, and they double the price we pay, it would be a wash. They will maintain the revenues that they always have, one way or the other.
Even if we only need 10% of our oil from them one day, they'll just charge 10 times as much as they do now for it, so it'll all come the same in the end.
OPEC are just playing the capitalist game of supply and demand and it sucks when someone beats you at your own game. It's our own damn fault from becoming so dependent on something that we simply can't provide for ourselves.
Even if by some miracle would could pump all our own oil, the price for us to do so domestically would be so high that prices would change very very little.
Drilling into Alaska has no economic signifigance at all -- only strategic.
USA consumes 20 Million Barrels A Day!!!
Says we might see prices as high as 3.50 a gallon this summer.
You cant tell me we arent going to run out soon, especially when that number will rise dramatically since the population will triple soon.We are so dependent on oil its not even funny, for EVERYTHING!!!
I honestly think its to late, or very close. Check this site out, its very disturbing and very realistic.
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.netMatt
Where may "here" be?
In San Francisco, even the cheapest station nearby (Arco) is 2.09 and rising (that's for regular unleaded). Some dumbo Shell stations are charging $2.49 for regular unleaded.
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By the way to the person talking about waiting till the other countries run out of oil. Remember back in 70s they said by 2000 all the oil would be gone, now they say 290 years. They keep finding more and more oil all the time.
The oil is there. The Earth produces oil every day.
The problem is that, after you reach a certain point (a point that we have passed some time ago) oil becomes more and more expensive to pump from the Earth.
There will always be oil. The question is, does it matter if it's there if it costs $500 a barrel to retrieve it?
Originally posted by Beachboy:
40 MPG with today's technology would mean we'd all have to drive hybrid cars like the Prius, conventional gasoline cars with very tiny engines (think 3 cyl. Geo Metro), or small diesels, like the VW TDI. While these cars will suffice for many people, I don't think most Americans would be happy with them. 40 MPG would mean no pickups or SUV's, and where I live, those account for 75% of the vehicles on the road. I think the answer lies in alternative fuels, such as CNG or hydrogen. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of natural gas reserves, which would allow us to make the easiest conversion to non-petroleum powered vehicles. Electric vehicles aren't really practical until someone develops a truly long range battery pack. Hydrogen shows promise, but its going to take years of development to get the vehicles and the infrastructure in place. And remember, the big boys in the oil companies like their fat salaries and aren't enthusastic about the country weaning itself of its oil dependence.
Yes, Americans 'happiness' is the most important thing in this whole situation ....
Have you ever been to Europe ?? How many hybrids do you think they drive over there ?? How many 3 cyl cars do they drive ??
There is nothing wrong with SUV's & trucks when they are used as work vehicles. Mom's using it for the school run doesn't cut it. Even my Duratec is OVERKILL as I'm the only one driving the car. My last car (in Europe) had a 1.2l engine. It got 35mpg and the only time it felt slow was on the highway. The fact it only had a 4 spd didn't help that either.
I find it a little frustrating when Americans go buy a $30 or 40k Suburban and then complain about $2.29 for gas. We pay a fraction of the cost of that Europeans pay, and even Canadians are paying more than we are. If you don't like paying so much for gas, buy a smaller car. Very few people I know need a large SUV, and most of them don't need it every day. There are so many people driving their RX330's and ML430's 25 miles to work here...alone. The real solution to gas prices is to use less gas, not to make gas cheaper so more people with big cars can afford to fill up their 30 gallon tanks. Either accept /all/ the consequences of driving such a large car, or buy a smaller car.
Oh, yeah, the last time I filled up at Chevron, it was 1.79, but it goes up quickly from there. There are stations in Seattle that are easily over $2 a gallon. I feel for the people in California though. When I was there over the summer, we could hardly find any gas cheaper than $1.99 a gallon.
Just consider the fact that no one, not even the government or oil companies, will argue the fact that we've used at least half of the oil that the Earth ever had.
We've been using oil for 150 years, so that gives us another 150 years to fix things, right?
Bzzzzt.
The population is several times what it was 150 years ago, so we're using it several times faster.
So if it took 150 years for an average population of 2.5 billion people to consume half the oil, it will only take 35 years to consume the same amount of oil at our current population growth.
But there's more....
Every item we use everyday uses oil, whereas even 50 years ago almost nothing was made from oil but gasoline.
We're using oil at a rate several times faster than even our grandparents did, and exponentially faster than our great-grandparents did.
There's no doubt amongst any reputable experts that the current reserves will last more than 30 years at current consumption rates.
Even if one were to say that we still had 75% of the oil reserves left after 150 years, we still wouldn't last more than 70 years provided oil consumption didn't increase at all over that time -- which it of course would. In 70 years the population will be double what it is now.
But, there's even more on top of the fact that it's running out.
The half of the oil that is left will cost exponentially more to retrieve than the oil we have been getting, whether it's because of it's depth or its' location on the surface of the Earth. It's far cheaper to drill in the surface of Kuwait than off the Antarctic Coast.
Like it or not, within 3-5 years we WILL be paying $5/gallon for gas in the United States. Irregardless of whatever OPEC does, it still is going to cost Exxon-Mobil considerably more in the near future to retrieve oil thanit does now.
It's not the impact on how much you pay that you should be worried about. It's the impact on our economy when all of us are paying $500+ per month just to drive our cars.
Gas prices are going to far exceed automakers ability to push out fuel-saving cars, and definently far exceed our nation's total inability to implement mass transit solutions.
Whether it's 3, 5, 10, or even 15 years at a stretch, the plain and simply truth of the matter is that something very very bad is going to happen to our country and the World in our lifetimes. There's simply not enough time to adequately solve the problem anymore.
Originally posted by sigma:
Whether it's 3, 5, 10, or even 15 years at a stretch, the plain and simply truth of the matter is that something very very bad is going to happen to our country and the World in our lifetimes. There's simply not enough time to adequately solve the problem anymore.
Please somebody make the scary man go away
Anyone who knows me knows that I'm not a Doomsdayer, not a Conspiracy Theorist, Chicken Little, etc, etc.
But, when we are presented with facts that are agreed upon by some of the most intelligent people on the planet... I mean, Come on!
NASA finds an Asteroid that may Cross our path in 2000 years and it's Headline News. The US Energy Secretary says that we've got 10 years left before our lives turn to [censored] because there's no more oil, and it's not talked about.
Sigma, you must be crazy man. We find new oil everyday. Especially underneath the ocean. There are vast amounts of oil under the ocean we haven't even found yet. Not to mention the fact that we use other country's oil in order to save ours. We'll be using oil for at least another 150 years, and I'm sure they'll have another energy source by then anyways.
Quote:
Sigma, you must be crazy man. We find new oil everyday. Especially underneath the ocean. There are vast amounts of oil under the ocean we haven't even found yet.
Experts aren't saying we have used at least half of what we have found -- they're saying we've used half of what there is. This comes from every Oil Company out there, OPEC nations, even our own Energy Secretary.
It's too bad that every government agency, both domestic and international (including OPEC themselves) and every oil company disagrees with you.
I never said that we don't find more oil everyday. We know there is more oil out there. Problem is we don't find more at a pace that even comes to close to matching our usage increase every year.
And, you're correct, there is Oil under the Ocean. Oil that will cost MANY MANY times more to retrieve than the surface-drilled oil. Have you seen the size of of the oil rigs being built now? Billions of dollars just to hit a few pockets of oil. Oil rig construction peaked years ago. The rigs now need to be far too large to go deep enough and don't get a good return.
We will have to drill that oil at some point -- but you'll be paying $20/gallon for it.
If there's so much oil than why for the last 3 months has every Oil and Natural Gas producer been revising their reserve estimates by HUGE amounts.
Oil reserve estimates have been "revised" by 30% in the last 3 months. Natural Gas reserve estimates have been "revised" by 41%.
These aren't government or scientific projections; these are from the owners of the fields themselves to their stockholders as their fields that they thought were huge, were beginning to scrape the bottom of the barrel.
Whoopsie?
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We'll be using oil for at least another 150 years, and I'm sure they'll have another energy source by then anyways.
Putting your fingers in your ears and going "La-la-la-la-la" doesn't make the problem go away. We haven't found a replacement for oil in 150 years, what makes you think we're going to find one in the nextg 150 years?
Quote:
Not to mention the fact that we use other country's oil in order to save ours.
Our oil production peaked in the early '70's. We're not "saving" ours, we don't have any because we already used most of it. We've got thousands of scientists scouring the US for more oil fields with no luck.
Every oil field in the domestic US has been tapped for a very long time. We're to the point now that we have to pump chemicals into the Earth to dilute to oil to make it cheap enough to retrieve it, then remove those chemicals afterwards.
This all makes the oil VERY expensive.
Running out of the Oil isn't the big problem. It is a big problem, but not the first one that we're going to come across.
The problem is what's going to happen to our economy when the price of a barrel of oil is several times what it is now.
It's easy to argue how much oil is out there. You can't see it, so anyone can say there's as much as they want to say. I'll grant you that.
You can't argue that Oil Production peaked 4 years ago, that's a fact, while the expenses to retrieve the declining amount of oil have increased (so you can't say that production decreased to increase price, because expenses would decrease at the same rate) -- meaning it costs considerably more to pump a barrel of oil now than it did just 4 years ago.
We've found more fields, built more rigs/pumps/etc, yet production is still declining every year. It's only a matter of time before the decline in supply meets the absolute minimum demand, which is increasing while supply is decreasing.
Originally posted by JayBoSVT:
Sigma, you must be crazy man. We find new oil everyday. Especially underneath the ocean. There are vast amounts of oil under the ocean we haven't even found yet. Not to mention the fact that we use other country's oil in order to save ours. We'll be using oil for at least another 150 years, and I'm sure they'll have another energy source by then anyways.
If we haven't found the oil under the ocean, how do we know it's there ??
Oil takes a long time to produce, and in the end -- its still a finite resource.
IMHO, I'd like the US government to grow some balls and start putting more money into R$D into more experimental technologies (like methanol powered vehicles) and begin giving tax incentives (breaks) for people who drive smaller displacement vehicles.
When the "Soccer Moms" are buying up Excursions to go to the grocery two blocks down, that is decadence at it's finest.
Oh, and gas is 90c/litre here, that works out to $3.60CAD/gal, which is $2.75USD/gal. So you guys still have it easy = p.
Days like this though I wished I bought a TDI ; p.
Originally posted by MarkO:
Originally posted by JayBoSVT:
Sigma, you must be crazy man. We find new oil everyday. Especially underneath the ocean. There are vast amounts of oil under the ocean we haven't even found yet. Not to mention the fact that we use other country's oil in order to save ours. We'll be using oil for at least another 150 years, and I'm sure they'll have another energy source by then anyways.
If we haven't found the oil under the ocean, how do we know it's there ??
We have found oil under the ocean.
Originally posted by JayBoSVT:
Originally posted by MarkO:
Originally posted by JayBoSVT:
Sigma, you must be crazy man. We find new oil everyday. Especially underneath the ocean. There are vast amounts of oil under the ocean we haven't even found yet. Not to mention the fact that we use other country's oil in order to save ours. We'll be using oil for at least another 150 years, and I'm sure they'll have another energy source by then anyways.
If we haven't found the oil under the ocean, how do we know it's there ??
We have found oil under the ocean.
So because we have found oil under the ocean before, you assume that there is more down there ? I put in the bolding to illustrate my point.
Originally posted by sigma:
It's too bad that every government agency, both domestic and international (including OPEC themselves) and every oil company disagrees with you.
How do you know EVERY single one disagrees with me? Did you interview them? Did you reasearch every single oil company on the planet?
Originally posted by sigma:
I never said that we don't find more oil everyday. We know there is more oil out there. Problem is we don't find more at a pace that even comes to close to matching our usage increase every year
I know you never said we don't find oil, so why are you telling this to me?
Originally posted by sigma:
Have you seen the size of of the oil rigs being built now? Billions of dollars just to hit a few pockets of oil. Oil rig construction peaked years ago. The rigs now need to be far too large to go deep enough and don't get a good return.
We will have to drill that oil at some point -- but you'll be paying $20/gallon for it.
Yes I have seen the size of the oil rigs today and I am aware of the money it takes to drill deep into the ocean.
I'll never pay $20 a gallon, you must be out of your mind. If the price of gas goes to $20 I will ride a bike wherever I have to go and limit what I take with me.
Originally posted by sigma:
If there's so much oil than why for the last 3 months has every Oil and Natural Gas producer been revising their reserve estimates by HUGE amounts.
So you say they have less oil and thats why they are revising their reserve estimates but for some reason they are pumping more oil per day than what their quota is. Interesting
Originally posted by sigma:
Quote:
We'll be using oil for at least another 150 years, and I'm sure they'll have another energy source by then anyways.
Putting your fingers in your ears and going "La-la-la-la-la" doesn't make the problem go away. We haven't found a replacement for oil in 150 years, what makes you think we're going to find one in the nextg 150 years?
I don't think sticky our fingers in our ears and singing gaily will accomplish anything either. And you don't think that how the technology in the last 100 years has changed that we won't expand even more technologically? [censored], I bet we have a substitute for oil within 100 years.You must be borderline braindead to not think that we won't have another substitute for oil. We will have to have one, cause it'll take 50 years to improve on the substitute to get it to where we have oil today.
Originally posted by JayBoSVT:
How do you know EVERY single one disagrees with me? Did you interview them? Did you reasearch every single oil company on the planet?
So, its your word against those who WORK in the industry ? You seriously think they are making this up ?
Originally posted by JayBoSVT:
And you don't think that how the technology in the last 100 years has changed that we won't expand even more technologically? [censored], I bet we have a substitute for oil within 100 years.You must be borderline braindead to not think that we won't have another substitute for oil. We will have to have one, cause it'll take 50 years to improve on the substitute to get it to where we have oil today.
Who is going to pay for it ? Certainly not the oil companies. Where did you pull 50 years from, by the way ?
1.82 here in west virginia
I agree that gas prices will probably keep going up. $3 or $4 a gallon could come sooner than we realize, and it would be hugely disruptive. But you know, I'm not too worried about it. We would adapt. We would change our lifestyles a lot. For example, no more gas guzzlers (soccer moms will no longer drive Excursions), lots of diesel cars running on vegetable oil (biodiesel), increased renewable energy production (wind, solar, geothermal, etc.), suburbanites will work closer to home, more walkable shopping areas will be built in the suburbs, more people will work from home, more public transportation. Not altogether such a bad scenario.
Quote:
How do you know EVERY single one disagrees with me? Did you interview them? Did you reasearch every single oil company on the planet?
I don't need EVERY single one of them to agree with me. How many companies agree with your standing?
I've at least named names on companies/agencies that agree that the near future for Oil is bleak at best, how many have you named?
Quote:
Yes I have seen the size of the oil rigs today and I am aware of the money it takes to drill deep into the ocean.
I'll never pay $20 a gallon, you must be out of your mind. If the price of gas goes to $20 I will ride a bike wherever I have to go and limit what I take with me.
I sure as hell hope you live a lot closer to your work than I do.
If you wanted to move closer to work to be able to bike, only so many people can live close to their offices. My company has 3500 people working in one building, we couldn't all live within biking distance of the office if we wanted to.
Good luck taking your family anywhere on that bike -- so the tourism, airline, hotel business would evaporate. Putting tens of millions out of work.
And I guess we shouldn't worry about those tens of millions of people in this country employed in some manner by the automotive or oil companies.
Oh, and the price of everything you bought would be HUGE. With as much as 80% of the price of a good being the transporation cost, and 80% of transportation cost being fuel, low-priced items would SKYROCKET in price.
And, since our food is largely produced with energy from oil, that'll be more expensive too.
The entire transportation industry fluctuates with pennies in fuel change. Every penny costs my company $20 million/year. We buy gas on thousandths of a penny. There's little doubt that I will likely be out of a job when gas prices double in the near future.
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So you say they have less oil and thats why they are revising their reserve estimates but for some reason they are pumping more oil per day than what their quota is. Interesting
What do you think a quota is?
A quota has ZERO to do with what a field is capable of producing.
It is a FACT that oil production has dropped over the last 4 years while while MORE money is spent to retrieve the lessor amount of oil.
Simple math says that makes the price of oil go up. At the rate of increase, the price will be over $5.00/gallon in CA within 3-4 years and across the entire US in no more than 5.
Quote:
And you don't think that how the technology in the last 100 years has changed that we won't expand even more technologically?
Sure, we're likely expand more in 100 years.
Too bad our economy will hit the shitter within the next 5 years as the price of oil skyrockets creating a huge hinderance for the development of alternatives.
Come on now, I've provided you lots of FACTS from a variety of different sources. If you're going to counter my claims, back 'em up with some substance. The only thing you even respond to are my subjective statements.
Maybe you'll listen to the Energy Advisor to the President of the United States:
"...The solution is to pray. Under the best of circumstances, if all prayers are answered there will be no crisis for maybe two years. After that itâ??s a certainty.
Or maybe something not quite so dire (he is a politician, can't be too doomsday-ish), from the US Secretary of Energy:
America faces a major energy supply crisis over the next two decades. The failure to meet this challenge will threaten our nation's economic prosperity, compromise our national security, and literally alter the way we lead our lives."
Those guys certainly have no reason to make the problem sound worse than it is. In fact they're very likely to make it sound BETTER than it really is.
baby needs fuel, been holding out hoping for a break..
Fuel (87) is 77.9/l = 2.95/us gal = 3.54/imp gal
of course expressed in CAD $
OUCH
Originally posted by caltour:
I agree that gas prices will probably keep going up. $3 or $4 a gallon could come sooner than we realize, and it would be hugely disruptive. But you know, I'm not too worried about it. We would adapt. We would change our lifestyles a lot. For example, no more gas guzzlers (soccer moms will no longer drive Excursions), lots of diesel cars running on vegetable oil (biodiesel), increased renewable energy production (wind, solar, geothermal, etc.), suburbanites will work closer to home, more walkable shopping areas will be built in the suburbs, more people will work from home, more public transportation. Not altogether such a bad scenario.
Wind powered cars ?? Come on. The social, cultural and infrastructure changes needed to move society to this lifestyle and this type of thinking takes a generation. The oil could be gone by then.
The Gas for our cars is the least of our problems, but the one that everyone always focuses on.
"Renewable" or "Alternative" fuel sources can't be used to make our foods, our plastics, our chemicals, or the millions of other things produced with Oil. And many "alternative" fuel sources require significant amounts of energy to create and use.
Quite simply there is nothing that can replace Oil. We'll be able to drive our cars with other products -- too bad we won't be able to build them without huge amounts of oil.
And don't even get me started on a Public Transportation rant.
Originally posted by MarkO:
Wind powered cars ?? Come on. The social, cultural and infrastructure changes needed to move society to this lifestyle and this type of thinking takes a generation. The oil could be gone by then.
He isn't saying the 'Wind powered cars'. He said biodiesel TDI's for auto's, Wind/Solar/etc for gen. electricity use.
Just replace all of the Duratecs with Zetecs....
According to one of the guys across the pond in the UK it would cost approximately 40 British Pounds to fill a Mondeo tank. The current exchange rate would make that over $70.00 US.
We still got it easy.
Man this got off topic real quick! Those really interested in gas prices in every city:
http://www.gasbuddy.com/I can't wait to start modding a fuel cell car....
Well, by my house, i have seen $1.75 to $1.95 For standard unleaded. Now if I drive a few miles down a road, its $1.69 (different county
)
Originally posted by MarkO:
Wind powered cars ?? Come on. The social, cultural and infrastructure changes needed to move society to this lifestyle and this type of thinking takes a generation. The oil could be gone by then.
I don't think so. I'd be happy to do my daily commute in a 1 or 2 seater small electric car. Less parking problems, less smog, less traffic jams. I don't need 200HP for my ride to/from work.
The technology is available, it just needs some incentive from cities/govt's.
Of course I'd happily use my gasoline powered vehicle for trips to the West Coast 
or even for a Walmart run, but most problems cars cause to us are inside cities.
Many people have beater cars for commuting. I think many of them would use some alternative if it was available.
Tiv
Believe it or not, there is already an incentive for alternative fuel vehicles in the form of a tax break.
******* NEWS FLASH *********
Europe in general has like a 400%++ gat tax that pay for the plublic transportation.
The US has about a 30%-40% gas tax. I think a better way to look at gas price is to see what a barrel of oil costs.
Also not all oil is the same.. There are some wells by me that have been pumping for 60+ years, because it heavy waxy oil that's great for plastic and Pensoil (sp?). The USA has a LOT of heavy oil but not much light oil or "sweet" oil that is used for gasoline. Heavy oil can be turned into light oil..with extra cost.
The USA also has over 1/2 of the worlds coal. PA alone has enough coal to provide for all the countries power demands for 200-300 years (at current levels). New tech is out to strip the pollutants out of the coal before it's burned.
But the real question is $$$$. It still cost's more to mine coal than it does to pump oil.
Originally posted by midcoastme:
According to one of the guys across the pond in the UK it would cost approximately 40 British Pounds to fill a Mondeo tank. The current exchange rate would make that over $70.00 US.
We still got it easy.
Bet you can't drive across the US on one tank like he can.
Fact of the matter is, take the Europe vs. US gas prices with a grain of salt. While it may take you 5 miles to get to the grocery store here, it will take someone in Europe 5 minutes by foot.
You may drive 20 miles to work here, where they drive 5.
Public transportation is excellent throughout Europe, even in small cities and places out in the boonies, so cars are not a necessity like they are here.
And you've got a LOT more gas friendly cars over the pond.
On the other side, there's Venezuela, where gas is $.14 .
-J
Quote:
PA alone has enough coal to provide for all the countries power demands for 200-300 years (at current levels).
Coal is definently an energy source that most people don't know we are so dependent on. Over 50% of our electricity comes from Coal. But this statistic isn't even close to correct.
The US alone consumes some 1.2 billion tons of a coal a year. PA has less than 4 Billion tons of accessible Clean Coal reserves -- meaning it wouldn't sustain the US by itself for even 3 years, let alone the entire world for 2-300.
Now, there is enough Coal throughout the entire country to sustain ourselves electricity-wise for a very long time. As long as we don't care if we use High-Sulfur Coal we can generate enough power to last 100 years.
The problem then becomes, if Oil runs out we have lots of coal, but not enough coal-fired power plants to generate enough electricity. And they take forever to build, so you've got to plan ahead -- this is why the Bush Administration has quietly been looking into a new Nuclear power program since we haven't built one of those in decades.
I have seen it as high as 2.20 for 93 here in the Chicagoland area.
Originally posted by sigma:
Just consider the fact that no one, not even the government or oil companies, will argue the fact that we've used at least half of the oil that the Earth ever had.
We've been using oil for 150 years, so that gives us another 150 years to fix things, right?
Bzzzzt.
The population is several times what it was 150 years ago, so we're using it several times faster.
So if it took 150 years for an average population of 2.5 billion people to consume half the oil, it will only take 35 years to consume the same amount of oil at our current population growth.
But there's more....
Every item we use everyday uses oil, whereas even 50 years ago almost nothing was made from oil but gasoline.
We're using oil at a rate several times faster than even our grandparents did, and exponentially faster than our great-grandparents did.
There's no doubt amongst any reputable experts that the current reserves will last more than 30 years at current consumption rates.
Even if one were to say that we still had 75% of the oil reserves left after 150 years, we still wouldn't last more than 70 years provided oil consumption didn't increase at all over that time -- which it of course would. In 70 years the population will be double what it is now.
But, there's even more on top of the fact that it's running out.
The half of the oil that is left will cost exponentially more to retrieve than the oil we have been getting, whether it's because of it's depth or its' location on the surface of the Earth. It's far cheaper to drill in the surface of Kuwait than off the Antarctic Coast.
Like it or not, within 3-5 years we WILL be paying $5/gallon for gas in the United States. Irregardless of whatever OPEC does, it still is going to cost Exxon-Mobil considerably more in the near future to retrieve oil thanit does now.
It's not the impact on how much you pay that you should be worried about. It's the impact on our economy when all of us are paying $500+ per month just to drive our cars.
Gas prices are going to far exceed automakers ability to push out fuel-saving cars, and definently far exceed our nation's total inability to implement mass transit solutions.
Whether it's 3, 5, 10, or even 15 years at a stretch, the plain and simply truth of the matter is that something very very bad is going to happen to our country and the World in our lifetimes. There's simply not enough time to adequately solve the problem anymore.
Had to be qouted in full because its the TRUTH. If you think we have enough oil forever your out of your mind, i would say about 15-30 years at most. The world will be paraylized and civilation will decline rapidly, if we dont change our ways. Everyone needs to educate yourselves further. Check some stuff out and you will find the truth, its a sobering truth. Dont listen to what we are being feed. Watch for the stock market to crash in 5-10, baby boomers will withdraw a lot of money for retirement. 
The scariest part about expensive oil.......Anything ever made has in some way needed oil to produce it.
I feel sorry for our kids They will suffer the most.
Matt
Originally posted by ODC:
Originally posted by MarkO:
Wind powered cars ?? Come on. The social, cultural and infrastructure changes needed to move society to this lifestyle and this type of thinking takes a generation. The oil could be gone by then.
He isn't saying the 'Wind powered cars'. He said biodiesel TDI's for auto's, Wind/Solar/etc for gen. electricity use.
I know. I was being facetious. 
Originally posted by tiv:
Originally posted by MarkO:
Wind powered cars ?? Come on. The social, cultural and infrastructure changes needed to move society to this lifestyle and this type of thinking takes a generation. The oil could be gone by then.
I don't think so. I'd be happy to do my daily commute in a 1 or 2 seater small electric car. Less parking problems, less smog, less traffic jams. I don't need 200HP for my ride to/from work.
The technology is available, it just needs some incentive from cities/govt's.
Of course I'd happily use my gasoline powered vehicle for trips to the West Coast or even for a Walmart run, but most problems cars cause to us are inside cities.
Many people have beater cars for commuting. I think many of them would use some alternative if it was available.
Tiv
I think you're in the minority. I'm not disagreeing with you; I'd love a little Clio or Fiesta to replace my 'tique.
Look at the huge popularity of trucks/suv's though. It's going to take some very, very progressive Govt policies and/or a huge, sustained hike in gas prices to bring about in people's way of thinking.
Wow that really sucks for ya'll in CA....
Here we are having the highest prices I've ever seen and its still $1.70 a gallon of 93.....