*MODERATOR PLEASE STICK THIS ON TOP*
CEG:
It's been 15 months to the day that my car was taken by Chris Croft at Kaotic Innovations. 15 months of tolerance and hard work to create something for our beloved cars - a car that the tuner industry would not touch. Brace yourself... but my car to this day is not finished...
October 31st: This was the day Chris told me and my dad that my SVT was ready and was going to be in the paint shop.
November 15th: The paint shop picked up my car
November 15th - Late December: Chris said there were slight problems with the paint and some things had to be worked over on the car.
December 18th: I went to NYC for vacation so I couldn't pick up the car till I got back.
December 24th: Chris supposedly tried to contact me to come pick up the car
December 25th - January 1st: Obviously it's the holiday so I couldn't pick up my car.
January 5th: went to go pick up my car - I didn't call or give lead time...
My friend and I get to the shop and knock on the door, with some time Chris comes out of the shop and I ask him to take me to the paint shop so I can pick up my baby. Chris drives to the paint shop with me. We get there and they're closed. There's a small hole in the bay door of paint shop that I can look inside of. Chris tells me that the car is behind two cars and points out the general direction.
So we try calling the shop owners to no avail. We decide to have lunch. We talked about why they weren't there. Chris tells me that the owners were in Canada, that they work all year long and then they all go out with their buddies to Canada on a fishing trip and won't be back till the 8th. I ask him about the paint job, to describe it to me. He tells me that they did 3 coats of the candy red paint and 3 coats of clear. They did a tribal graphic on the drivers side of the door - he described the graphic he put on and the colors used.
So it all sounds good and my friend and I go home waiting for word on the 8th.
January 8th comes and passes - no word from Chris and like everybody else I can't reach him at the shop.
January 12: My friend and I are hanging out and start talking about last Monday's trip to Kaotic. We both started getting the feeling something was strange... I never doubted Chris before - I mean, he's my friend.... so I thought....
January 13: We decided to pay a visit to the paint shop in the morning without telling Chris or calling the shop, my brother and friend with me. We get to the paint shop that day and it's still closed. I had my extra set of keys and remote and tried to push the panic button to see if it was in there. No sucess and we didn't feel like breaking in to property. So we went to Kaotic next.
We get there and see a black celica outside which is normally not there. I remembered that Chris told me they would be working on one so I knew someone had to be there. We heard shuffling inside the garage area. knocked on the door a couple times and my brother decided to knock on the garage door. The loud banging got some attention. Tony, Chris' partner comes out the garage side door on the phone. He's on the phone and hands it to me and says - "here's the guy you want to talk to"
I get on the phone and ask him where the hell my car is - Chris says they had a break in for some dumb reason and that car is inside. I can't remember what I did with the phone but I remember walking inside and seeing my car on jack stands NOT FINISHED. The car was in primer with the front bumper removed. The front two wheels off on jack stands. There was no hood on the car and the widebody panels on both bumpers not finished - the back bumper didn't even have the moulding for the widebody.
The car was in a disgusting state I couldn't speak - this is the first time I've seen the car since early October. It looked pretty much the same to me except that the molding of the sideskirt to the widebody was finished. I walked around the car atleast two or three times looking over everything. I was silently furious but for anybody that knows me - I have a hard time getting or staying mad... go figure, i'm the dumbass who left my car there for 15 months trusting Chris.
After maybe walking around the car 3 times I tell Tony I'm towing her back home. From there i'm so confused I WAS LIED TO BY SOMEONE I CONSIDERED A GOOD FRIEND WHO I STOOD UP FOR THROUGHOUT THIS VENTURE.
Time passes and I start talking to Tony, i'm not mad at Tony nor do I have any kind of negative feelings towards him - the SVT was not his project. I tell Tony what Chris told me and he can't believe that I was lied to like that.
We took pictures at the shop and I will post them for you all very soon - they are on my friends picture phone so we are posting them soon.
I asked Tony what else needed to be done - Tony tells me and I ask him if HE CAN FINISH IT for me and that I don't want Chris to be any part of this. I was debating whether to leave my car there or not but the tow truck was already on its way. Within the two hours it took for the tow truck Tony and I talked and made an agreement that I would take the car back and he would come down to my town and work on it in a garage of my choosing and he would also get it painted by the shop.
$250 later (towing expense) - CHRIS IF YOU'RE READING THIS YOU OWE ME.
I'M OFFICIALLY SCREWED UNLESS TONY COMES THROUGH. I don't have the money to fix my baby up to spec nor the money to get it painted. The car is now sitting in my garage - I never ever expected this to happen.
Yesterday my friends came over to help with the clean up process - we managed to get the engine clean and much of the leather restored. There is a lot of work needed to be done... A LOT.
If Tony does not come through I need to take out a loan to finish my car. It is a sad state of affairs. I'm not mad that it's not done - I'm more mad that I was lied to by someone whom I trusted so much and someone who I considered to be a friend. I value trust over anything else - betrayed by anybody I will turn my back on them and never give them another chance.
I no longer support nor endorse Kaotic Innovations nor will I ever trust Chris Croft again. Guys - I don't know what to do - I don't want to give the car back to Kaotic due to the situation.
I will be on the boards and looking at this post often for your advice....
well, this could be the straw that broke the camels back for me.
Man I can't understand how you aren't completely pissed off dude. Much respect on being able to control yourself because I probably would have beat the hell out of someone if I saw my car like that after so long. That is so screwed especially considering it was a friend that pulled this on you. I'm not in the GB for the kits but I posted it once and someone else did as well but I think SOMEONE in that GB needs to get names of everyone who was in it and take it to a lawyer for a class action suit against kaotic...and do it SOON before they try to disappear. The longer you guys wait the harder it's going to be to get your money back.
P.S. I have an old buddy back in Cali that is a lawyer. Granted he mostly does immigration type stuff but he now has several law firms and could probably tell me what you guys need to do to get this resolved. If no one in the GB wants to contact a lawyer then someone could maybe PM me all the pertinent info as far as how many are involved and how much money and other details etc and I could maybe get ahold of him and A. Get some advice on what your course is and B. Maybe one of his firms could handle it for you guys. Someone in the GB should really get with a local lawyer but if not let me know and I'll see what I can find out.
Originally posted by XKontour98:
I'm a broke college student that has all my money tied up in this kit and I have no legal experience, nor have I ever talked to a lawyer so can someone more experience step up and help us out!
make a post in the common interests forums, so that lots of people can read it...hopefully you'll find a couple people who can help you out...
Originally posted by freakshow:
Man I can't understand how you aren't completely pissed off dude. Much respect on being able to control yourself because I probably would have beat the hell out of someone if I saw my car like that after so long.
I completely agree.. I would have lost it... I wasnt in this g/b either but its a shame to see how bad these people have abused the trust they have been given... Im really sorry to hear about your tour!! I hope everything works out... TAKE LOTS OF PICTURES....
lina
yeah definitely take lots of pictures. and get better quality ones than with a camera phone....
Sucks man, sorry to hear about all this crap. Hopefully Tony comes though, but you SERIOUSLY need to consider a lawyer, especially if you have to take a loan.
BTW, change your signature.
Hey everyone, this is Nyceboi's brother. If you read his post you know that I went with him on an adventure to Kaotic Innovations 2 days ago on the 13th. I had just gotten back from LA the day prior and we spoke in the morning. He had a funny feeling inside of him telling him that something was wrong with his car. We both came to the conclusion that maybe they had broken something on the car and were waiting on a part. I decided to go along with him and our friend on a trip to the boondocks to "bust some heads" as I told our mother when we left home.
We get to Oroville (where kaotic is located) and head to the paint shop where the car is supposedly getting painted. Well hot damn, the sumbitch is open and we don't see the car inside. Off to Kaotic.
We get to Kaotic and I knock on the office door, no one answers. I keep knocking, still nothing. So I decide to bang on the steel garage door. Out comes someone I've never seen before, Tony. Tony is on the phone with Chris and hands the phone to my brother, he wants to know where the care is and blah blah. I ask Tony if the car is inside, he says yes, and I ask can we see it. He lifts open the huge garage door and there she is...
...Exactly the way I saw it at the beginning of 2003 minus the lambo doors. WHAT THE [censored] IS THIS [censored],
I say in my head, and then proceed to say it out loud. The car is on 2 jack stands with the front wheels off. The passenger side door shock is ALL [censored]. The front bumper isn't FINISHED. The rear wide body fenders ARENT DONT YET EITHER.
The interior is [censored]. WHERE THE [censored] IS THE SPOILER?! The engine is all [censored].
The brakes are all [censored]. THE CAR IS ALL [censored]. THIS IS [censored], I thought the car was finished in October.
AND THE [censored] HOOD SCOOP IS GONE REPLACED BY THE ORIGINAL HOOD! WHAT THE [censored]!??
We all kept hearing 2 weeks, 2 weeks, 2 [censored] WEEKS. Of what you ask? Well isn't it obvious? 2 [censored] WEEKS OF LIES LIES LIES.
Actually 15 months of [censored] LIES.
None of this is geared towards Tony. This wasn't Tony's car, Tony didn't know what was going on with the car, THIS WAS CHRIS' [censored] PROJECT.
The reason I'm PISSED OFF is because we had plans to fix up our other Contour that was supposed to be for me, BUT I GUESS NOT ANY [censored] MORE HUH CHRIS?!
I'm not so much pissed that the car isn't done either, it's the fact that we were lied to throughout the entire ordeal. That in my opinion, and much of yours I presume, is not good business.
We will have this car show ready in 2 [censored] WEEKS.
MUSTANGS RULE!!!
I am speechless...
After about 5 minutes of pondering this...
I have no solution. Not a non-violent one anyway.
I will say this, "even though I was not part of this Group Buy, I feel betrayed". So I cannot even begin to imagine how everyone else feels. And to everyone else that has paid money to Kaotic, I can only feel sorry for you guys. I wish there was more I could do.
I can only hope that a justifiable end can come to this mess.
Nyceboi, I know that everyone will appreciate you posting this update on the situation. You have always been a dependable person to deal with and I personally don't think this will have much affect on you. You did what you thought was best for our cars and gave your car for that purpose. There is nothing more that anyone could ask. If I could make it there, I would personally come and help complete your car back to spec.
Againg, I am sorry to everyone.
Call a lawyer. Start documenting EVERYTHING. Emails, letters, posts here, checks sent etc. This will help to turn the issue from a he-sucks-no-you-suck type disagreement into a viable case for court.
Best of luck to you. I'm sorry to hear of this.
wow... thanks for the responces
i need a lot of help - i still want my car finished
anything you want to remain public post here otherwise email me at
svt@nyceboicreations.com with anything.
I havn't been here since October and I forgot how great you all are - thanks for having my back.
For those of you who don't know - my car was the prototype car for this kit - the car that was supposed to have the FIRST KIT completed
Yeah, I remember posting about you guys needing some legal help and Nirish was the one who [censored] me out for that...I'm not going to throw this in your face, but you were behind them 100% and after you said "hey no one needs any legal advice" I let it go because I assumed that you knew what was up. Well, I'm sorry, is everyone in the GB fcuked?
FWIW you need an attorney from the state of CA. You guys on the boards can talk to friends and family, but unless they know cali law you all aren't gettin anywhere. Also, if they don't have the money they don't have the money. I do not believe there is any insurance system to cover something like this. I hope the best for you Nirish and all the guys in the Kaotic GB, especially Mike in GR. Karma will get these guys too!
nirish what you need to do is give tony a deadline and set up a date to when he is going to finish the car. The shop is responsible for finishing the car because of the agreement that you guys had. As for the rest of us, we can still get them. i sent them an email and i have given them a deadline of march 1 to either have my kit, have the kit shipped or have my money back, if not i will have my bank get my money back. We should also get the BBB and other people involved so that we can make sure chirs never starts a bussiness again.
As Phil put it, there's not much to be done, except for street justice. It's a pity that ppl in our society feel so immune to good ol' baseball bat... That's why they do what they please....
Guys...I have paper trails miles long...
Every check was copied so I have proof of everyone who sent money to me for Kaotic - every paypal transaction too. I can PDF everything if you need a copy of your original transactions.
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
FWIW you need an attorney from the state of CA. You guys on the boards can talk to friends and family, but unless they know cali law you all aren't gettin anywhere. Also, if they don't have the money they don't have the money. I do not believe there is any insurance system to cover something like this. I hope the best for you Nirish and all the guys in the Kaotic GB, especially Mike in GR. Karma will get these guys too!
Where at in Cali is Kaotic located? My lawyer buddy is in SoCal I believe in the San Diego/LA areas so if his firms don't handle these kind of things he may at least be able to reccommend a good lawyer to handle this. As far as them not having the money: If they don't have the money and a lawsuit is won by the CEGer's who got screwed the courts can seize any of their assets for liquidation to cover the money they owe so I'm sure one way or another people can get their money back. I'll try to email my bud and see if I can get a little info for you guys.
Nirish, man....I knew something was wrong just by seeing the shop and the way they handled Matt's car.
The shop: A disaster. That word best explains it.
Matt's car: We drove 25+ hours to California to have this done, and found out upon getting there that Chris had only gotten back into town an hour or two before. We got in later than expected, so if we had been on time, we would have been screwed for a while. Anyways, the bumper was nowhere near installation condition. I think it took them 7-8 hours to get the bumper on Matt's car. It's not like we showed up unexpectedly -- they all knew we were coming. Also, we were told it would take less than an hour to put the bumper on, so we had plans on the coast for the next day. We still got to the coast, but only had a couple hours.
Bottom line, it sucks everyone got scammed, but I can honestly say that after being at the shop and having this experience that I am not surprised.
Nirish, I hope you can get your car fixed alright, and the effects from this all will not be too rough. One of the highlights of our trip was getting to meet you and hang out for a few, so it hurts to see this happen to you.
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
The shop: A disaster. That word best explains it.
details?
Sure, and I'm sure Nirish's pictures will show this. First of all, walking into the shop the first thing I see, after getting up from tripping on something, is Nirish's car covered in fiberglass dust/whatever kind of dust that is -- just terrible. There were fiberglass parts everywhere, junk laying all over the floor. You had to step over things to get anywhere. There were a few beater cars there that looked like they had been to hell and back, I guess they were supposed to be future projects. Turns out CEGers will probably own them at some point in the future.
Just picture the worst-kept shop you've ever seen, and you'll have Kaotic's.
Nirish, I can imagine how much work you have to put into your car just to get it clean!
wow, thats so discraceful. if i was kaotic, i would just be completely ashamed of myself...oh and by the way, on the kaotic site, i believe the link for the contour bodykit was either deleated or is offline (take your reason...it doesnt work). you can no longer see the pics for it...
and it's till not clean yet - i got a lot of the dust out - with 4 guys took 1hr to do that. Sail panel is damaged, vinyl parts need major conditioning work. Leather looks great though and we got the engine cleaned up pretty well.
The first shop looked great but when Altered Image declared bankruptcy Kaotic was forced to move there - the location just described. Pretty much a make-do location so I never cared about that part of it but the fact my interior wasn't treated better is an eyesore...
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
Nirish, man....I knew something was wrong just by seeing the shop and the way they handled Matt's car.
The shop: A disaster. That word best explains it.
Matt's car: We drove 25+ hours to California to have this done, and found out upon getting there that Chris had only gotten back into town an hour or two before. We got in later than expected, so if we had been on time, we would have been screwed for a while. Anyways, the bumper was nowhere near installation condition. I think it took them 7-8 hours to get the bumper on Matt's car. It's not like we showed up unexpectedly -- they all knew we were coming. Also, we were told it would take less than an hour to put the bumper on, so we had plans on the coast for the next day. We still got to the coast, but only had a couple hours.
Bottom line, it sucks everyone got scammed, but I can honestly say that after being at the shop and having this experience that I am not surprised.
Nirish, I hope you can get your car fixed alright, and the effects from this all will not be too rough. One of the highlights of our trip was getting to meet you and hang out for a few, so it hurts to see this happen to you.
Any chance they took parts from Nirish's car to complete Matt's???
That really sucks for you Nirish more than any of us. If Tony doesn't fix your car, it's gonna cost you more than anyone else has put into this. This sucks. I guess I'll probably be out my $75, but if you have the copies of the paypal transaction and emails I've sent you, those would be nice to have. I will do whatever I can to help if a lawsuit is started, if my issue isn't resolved. I'm sorry I ever said anything good about Kaotic.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
and it's till not clean yet - i got a lot of the dust out - with 4 guys took 1hr to do that. Sail panel is damaged, vinyl parts need major conditioning work. Leather looks great though and we got the engine cleaned up pretty well.
The first shop looked great but when Altered Image declared bankruptcy Kaotic was forced to move there - the location just described. Pretty much a make-do location so I never cared about that part of it but the fact my interior wasn't treated better is an eyesore...
I hope you got pics of your car BEFORE you cleaned it because it could go a long way if it goes to court.
Guys like many people have mentioned already, someone in this GB needs to get on the phone and start talking to a lawyer! I hear alot of suggestions about wanting to talk to a lawyer, but someone needs to actually do so. Also start collecting every bit of documentation you can find! At the same time one of you, if not already done, needs to contact the Better Business Bureau immediately as well! Put some legal pressure on these people, not just threats to do so.
Once again I feel bad for everyone.
Nycoebi please post pics, I know it doesn't take long to post them on here and I think everyone is curious as to see the condition your car was in and what it looks like at this very moment.
Originally posted by JonGordo8:
Guys like many people have mentioned already, someone in this GB needs to get on the phone and start talking to a lawyer!
A lawyer at the state AG's office! The way this has been handled seems downright criminal!
Originally posted by perry:
Originally posted by JonGordo8:
Guys like many people have mentioned already, someone in this GB needs to get on the phone and start talking to a lawyer!
A lawyer at the state AG's office! The way this has been handled seems downright criminal!
I agree with that! AG = Attorney General
Odds are someone would have asked that... 
Thanks for the emails guys...
My friend is trying to figure out how to take the pictures off his phone - we took pictures at the shop and pictures when we took it home. It is on a camera phone but that's all we had - I did not expect to see my car in the condition it was in.
I'm going to get the paper trails PDF'd and will send them to whoever needs them.
holy f!ckin sh!t
you can't be serious...how can someone just flat out lie like that?
I have a very good question though, if your car isn't even finished then how are kits supposed to be shipping out?
Quote:
I have a very good question though, if your car isn't even finished then how are kits supposed to be shipping out?
Quote:
you can't be serious...how can someone just flat out lie like that?
Well this needs to be handled in a group effort, check your email guys.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
Time passes and I start talking to Tony, i'm not mad at Tony nor do I have any kind of negative feelings towards him - the SVT was not his project. I tell Tony what Chris told me and he can't believe that I was lied to like that.
I haven't been following this case for longer than the last two weeks or so, I really don't know very much about it at all. But I know enough that if Tony and Chris are in business together then I would hold Tony just as accountable as Chris. I mean common I think he would no better than anyone else that Chirs was F'ing everyone over. It doesn't take a rocket sciencetist to realize that a car has been in your shop gradually getting f'ed up for FIFTEEN months. I think they are just pulling the good guy/bad guy scam to dupe you once again. In a partnership both partners assume all liability. Correct me if I am wrong but if Chris = A'hole , Kaotic = A'holes, Tony + Chris = Kaotic then we can all assume Tony = A'hole!
Originally posted by KnuKonceptz:
Any chance they took parts from Nirish's car to complete Matt's???
no, nirishs car was just as he dscribed it this summer when we went there.. minus the lambo doors if any of that has actually been done. we watched them yank the bumper out of the mold too. the only thing i got was the front end, not the entire kit.
Did you see whaere they got the hood from? Because Nirish doesnt have the kit one and They didnt see it in the shop!
Chris decided to take the hood scoop off for some reason. I have the hood he worked on but he took it off and refinished it!?!
So for those who ordered a hood - no hood of you...
my car looks so naked without it... if i get it into a bodyshop soon i'll have it molded back on.
Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
I have a very good question though, if your car isn't even finished then how are kits supposed to be shipping out?
That's what I don't get either - they supposedly shipped out two kits and yet my car is NOT FINISHED??! what's up with that? Maybe I should start a Help-the-SVT fund...lol j/k
Thanks for the support via email guys. We'll get through this yet - you all are great.
unfunkin believable...i feel so bad for you nyce, but i still feel worse for those that sent hard-earned money to these shiesters...what a bunch of sorry sob's
i dont know what good it will do, but SUE SUE SUE...there was a story on a tv program last week of some celebs son who was left a vintage chevy pickup i think it was by the dying father...son sent the truck to a resto shop and the truck flat disappeared!!!
he's suing the owner and was awarded damages but hasnt even seen a dime of that, and the shop owner claims the truck vanished when it was sent out for painting
one thing i wonder is who the hell chose this shop in the first place and why...wasn't it checked it out from the beginning...if they had beaters and pos cars sitting around maybe they weren't theh place to use
and to think that if it had been closer to me i was seriously considering donating my pre98 in order to get the free kit
instead of spring zings and meets, maybe there should be a caravan to kaotic and some serious ass kicking
Originally posted by gdub520:
one thing i wonder is who the hell chose this shop in the first place and why...wasn't it checked it out from the beginning...if they had beaters and pos cars sitting around maybe they weren't theh place to use
I did check it out and the first shop looked great - but when it tanked they were forced to move to another location - what were my options? my car was already being modified and at this point I began to trust Chris and see him as a friend.
Originally posted by gdub520:
instead of spring zings and meets, maybe there should be a caravan to kaotic and some serious ass kicking
Sounds like fun!!!!
nirish, if you could please email me the pdf file of all the people that payed including myself at
hahndojr@hotmail.com that would be great. Im gonna try and talk to my lawyer.
I just tried calling and i got a message that stated that they were closed for the holidays
The message did tell me to have a happy New Year though, would be a hell of a lot happier if i got my $700.00+ dollars back though
get in touch with the state police!make sure you get this
on file!This is very serious and their are laws in each state! and also federal laws against using the internet
for scams.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
Originally posted by gdub520:
one thing i wonder is who the hell chose this shop in the first place and why...wasn't it checked it out from the beginning...if they had beaters and pos cars sitting around maybe they weren't theh place to use
I did check it out and the first shop looked great - but when it tanked they were forced to move to another location - what were my options? my car was already being modified and at this point I began to trust Chris and see him as a friend.
i understand and i do seem to remember that the shop tanked or they had to move or something...not knocking u in the least, mostly using hindsight
For everyone Involved I just filed a complaint with the better business bureau in Cali. I suggest you all contact them and file aswell, they might be of help to us, if not atleast it is against them for other consummers.
Heres the contact info:
The Better Business Bureau that will handle your complaint is:
Sacramento Valley BBB
400 S. Street
Sacramento, CA 95814 -6997
Phone: (916)443-6843
Fax: (916)441-3356
Email:
ops@northeastcalifornia.bbb.orgWWW:
http://www.northeastcalifornia.bbb.org And heres Kaotics info:
Kaotic Innovations
2870 Feather River Blvd Sute B
Oroville, CA United States 95965
(530)532-0967
www.kaoticinnovations.comYo can File a complaint on tis website aswell:
http://complaints.bbb.org/SelectComplaintLinkFrameSet.aspGood Luck and please help out or this will go no where!
File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Go to this website
www.sacramento.bbb.orgFile a complaint with the Attorney General State of California (800) 952-5225
File a complaint with the Bureau of Automotive Repair. You can do this by calling (800) 952-5210
Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
I have a very good question though, if your car isn't even finished then how are kits supposed to be shipping out?
i did see molds for the front, sides, and the 1st rear they posted up in the shop... nirishs car was far beyond what they were offering to the rest of us. so kits could have been made out of those molds while nirishs car was neglected? i donno...
You guys that paid might want to pool funds & get a lawyer to look into this now. There might be some assets that can be siezed & liquidated to allow you to get at least some of your money back.
I hate this crap.
Kevin- I-dom-in-8 wants to know how he is going to get his money back for his hood since he sent you a paypal for the hood. Should he be talking with you or Kaotic?? Please advise asap.
Thanks,
Phil
http://www.stratusphere.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=181&st=120
I registered there so I can link them to this thread.. Looks like Kaotic is stringing them along with hoods.
Apparently they are doing the same thing we are doing with new user registrations -- admin has to approve them. As soon as I'm approved, I'll make a post there.
If we seize assets than get the mold for those fascias, I could get them re-man in southern Cali.
Originally posted by perry:
http://www.stratusphere.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=181&st=120
I registered there so I can link them to this thread.. Looks like Kaotic is stringing them along with hoods.
Apparently they are doing the same thing we are doing with new user registrations -- admin has to approve them. As soon as I'm approved, I'll make a post there.
"Lets concerntrate on getting them produced before were pushing for mass production. I have been waiting for going on two years for this damn hood. And still all we hear is there workin on it. More workin less BS please!!! "
Wow, this sounds so familar! 
Originally posted by ILZX3:
Kevin- I-dom-in-8 wants to know how he is going to get his money back for his hood since he sent you a paypal for the hood. Should he be talking with you or Kaotic?? Please advise asap.
Thanks,
Phil
Phil - I gave Chris all the money between summer '03 and October/November '03. As you all know I was only acting in good faith since Terry was no where to be found and communication with Kaotic was scarce and I was atleast the most responsible. I have proof of every transaction to me plus transactions to Chris. All checks were made to Chris Croft from me - all your transations were made to either me or Terry. If it was with me I have proof as I have stated before and they will be readily available soon - Terry never sent money to me only to Chris.
Let me know whatever else information you need - we have a lot of people moving on this and again I can't believe the amount of support many of you guys are providing on my behalf and the rest of the CEGers in this GB.
I just turned on CEG-PMs so if you don't want to email me PM me!!
Originally posted by perry:
Crofty59 sightings, just for giggles:
http://www.wicca.com/celtic/forums/view_user.php?id=917 (maybe he'll have dreams of a jail cell, just read his posts)
Can someone pass the pipe? 
I just noticed this quote on the Kaotic website:
IT WAS A NYCE CAR WHEN I GAVE IT TO KAOTIC... NOW I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT IS MY CAR... BUT I LIKE IT! -NYCEBOI
-Jonathan
um..and what's that supposed to mean?
I did create their website, I did trust them....
I'm not taking it down for purposes of the current situation - it does show that I did trust Chris and have confidence in his abilities. Among other things....
Lets keep this on topic
i think that quote is a year old...when he actually expected it to be finished
Originally posted by nyceboi:
lol yeah - um..i designed the site.. i should take it down or do you all want it up?
Take it down, replace it with your story. 
-Jonathan
Nirish, i sent you a money order for 160 for shipping did you give it to them yet if not can you please send it back thanks. Richard Lempitski
Not to get 50 lawyers in on this or anything, but my brother is part owner of a mortgage company here and one of the other 2 owners is a pretty big time attorney in California... They talk almost everyday so I just have to say the word... If you need any assistance, feel free to PM me, if not I'll presume you have it under control...
Mark
We are trying to get something together, but I have heard from 2 out of 19 people......guys please check your emails....you can reach me at
kontact@KnuKonceptz.com or any other KnuKonceptz email addy, I scan them all.
Nirish is ya can send me that file that would be awesome,(Kajork20@yahoo.com) I dont blame you one bit bro. You tryed doing something for all of us and ended up worse off then everyone. Thanks for trying and hopefully we will get our money back. Man i was Sooooo looking forward to getting this dam hood
KnuKonceptz- i will email ya with ever you want man just email me and let me know what you need me to do.
I don't want to rub salt into the wound or anything but be careful about the lawyer you select. If he's some high profile big shot you could end up with a bill instead of a check.
Originally posted by Sarge43:
I don't want to rub salt into the wound or anything but be careful about the lawyer you select. If he's some high profile big shot you could end up with a bill instead of a check.
I have a relative that is a lawyer, he does work at a high class law firm in Cleveland, if he cant help he can at least offer some advice.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
I'm not mad that it's not done - I'm more mad that I was lied to by someone whom I trusted so much and someone who I considered to be a friend. I value trust over anything else - betrayed by anybody I will turn my back on them and never give them another chance.
Obviously he never considered you a friend. You were a source of income. It never ceases to amaze me how many people are like that
I was not in on the group buy, but here's a few thoughts in no particular order (these are suggestions, NOT MEANT AS ACTIONABLE LEGAL ADVICE. Ask the REAL Cali attorney your substantive questions. (If you wanna assert malpractice against me for my comments being off base, then screw you for not getting a REAL california atty, so good luck with that on mitigation of damages issues if you pursue me):
#1 How many buyers got screwed? Might be enough to certify as a class for a class action.
#2 How much info does anyone have on Kaotic? Did they register with the state or county as a corporation or a partnership or a sole proprietorship? Who are the principals or partners or officers or owners? They are all targets. How are their business licenses held? Who are they on their work space lease? Ever hear of "piercing the corporate veil"? Being unable to pay their foreseeable debts after the company is run into the ground is often a factor allowing you to avoid corporate liability limitations and go sue/collect against the principals directly. [censored] them ALL. Hard, fast and 'til they bleed.
#3 What do they own? All of them. Even the "innocent" partners might be collection targets, with their recourse being against the creeps that they partnered up with. Hit one hard and watch the rest of the vermin scatter.
#4 Are your targets judgment proof? While they may appear to "own" assets, if those assets are hocked to the eyeballs as collateral on bank loans, then they may really "possess" a lot but really "own" nothing. They will try to hide their real "free and clear" owned assets as soon as they know you are coming. (There goes another car title now, deeded away to a stupid brother in law, selling the '63 Vette for $50, wink wink. Sue him too as a party to a fraudulent transfer.)
#5 Talk to a Cali attorney that knows collection law. I may be able to check out national collection publications like that of "The General Bar" or (CCLA?) commercial law leagues to get names addresses and phones for collection attys that are active in the county in which Oroville is located. There may be a few to choose from. But maybe they are already hired on behalf of OTHER creditors to go after the same deadbeat creeps.
#6 What proof of fraud can you guys develop? Might be pretty possible here. Why is that important? Being able to PROVE FRAUD might give advantages of PREVENTING the bad entity/bad guys from getting a discharge of debts owed to you via chapter 7 bankruptcy. And you might be able to seek civil punitive damages if they don't scurry into banko court right away.
#7 Don't let these [censored] rats hide their assets from you and DON'T publicly telegraph your punches to the creeps all over these boards once you DO have an attorney to go after them.
#8 Get ahold of the Cali AGs office. Yesterday. Or sooner.
#9 You guys may have to organize to scrape up a retainer for an attorney's costs and time to get started on this. Who's pissed enough to come up with the court filing fees and summons service fees? You gonna pay the attorney a percentage of the recovery or hire him on an hourly basis or a hybrid? Those topics WILL come up.
I may post more musings on this mess as other thoughts pop into mind.
Whats up with taking down the contour pic's on the kaotic website, and also the whole contour bulk buy page that showed everyone who paid and for how much? Dont you controll that web page nirch?
it's back up..sorry.... i was taking down the page but stopped and forgot to restore it - i put it back up as it was (I created the entire site last summer so I'm not changing the language on it - I was honestly motivated and excited to help this company...you finish how this sentence ends)
Nyceboi and i are working ot the finishing of the car...The bumpers are the first ones out along with the side.
As for the kits, there is talk about a lawsuit. I hope that you do not do that as we have already sent out four of the kits and are working on the list at large. If you want a refund then I will get one to you as I can allocate the money. Also no one has stated why this is taking so long. It is b/c I have not been at the shop. I do have personal problems and my family is my first priority. I can not stop you from sueing but if you do then I am sorry. There have been those of you that stuck by my side and I will stick this through, but be fore warned if not given the a break here, I will not have any other choice than to shut down the business completely. I am just a body guy that wanted to start something. The business part is not my fortey. I am no scam artist. I will try to have all kits out by the end of next month. that is all I can say.
Also for my religion and hobbies they are mine, why do you got to bring it up.
No, we all knew he was getting it done for free. Thats how these things work.
Who were the kits shipped out too????
How come no ones posted????
How about just give us a definate date when we will all have our kits and hoods. I know you have a family life, but this deal has been sour from the get go. I would still love to have my kit, but we need to get this all over and done with in my opinion.
I do not have all the names in front of me but i do remember mike's name, and matt. As for this being sour from the begining I agree. On both sides. I was told to 35 kits and lowered the price to get it going and have only been paid for 16......So with that being said I would hold off on the law suits i am getting these kits done. there are only two of us here...
so, if this is all true and if you were having family problems, why did you completely lie to nyceboi about his car? why didnt you bother providing anyone with an update? it takes literally one minute to post on here. these people paid you to make their kits, and because they PAID you, you should let them know what's going on. to completely LIE to someone like that is horrible. you should be ashamed of yourself.
Give me a break
.
Originally posted by Crofty59:
I will not have any other choice than to shut down the business completely.
You call this running a business. I don't see any reason why anybody would or should believe anything anymore.
08/11/03 2:47AM GB Thread, tom speaking about a similar incident regarding Kaotic with the Probe guys:
Originally posted by tom10167:
...Tony Novello and Christopher Crofty(Owners of Kaotic, along with Christopher's wife.) don't even have a business license to sell...
01/15/04 This Thread,
Originally posted by nyceboi:
I start talking to Tony, i'm not mad at Tony nor do I have any kind of negative feelings towards him - the SVT was not his project. I tell Tony what Chris told me and he can't believe that I was lied to like that.
11/04/03 4:36PM GB Thread, tnovello (Tony Novello?)
Originally posted by tnovello:
Were hoping to get at least 2 kits out a week till everyone that has paid in full has recived there kits.
How can Tony not believe you were lied to?
Really, enough is enough.
GB THREAD
i hardly think too many here would cry if u had to shut down...as far as how these customers were treated and the fact that u never seem to be open, it looks like u're shutdown anyway...and if theres only 2 of u, tough...dont take on work...from multiple sites it seems now, that u cant handle
and to the ceg'ers...get it together and figure a way to get your money back before they file bankruptcy...although i dont know whether a bk will stop a judgement for payment, im sure kaotic will try just that to keep from refunding
Honestly guys, all these threats arent getting anyone anywhere.
Chris, will the kits and hoods, since I'm waiting for both, be finished and if so when?
I don't think any of us really want to go through all this, but I know somethings gotta happen.
Personal opinion....Get everything done quickly and correctly, send it out and we're outta you're hair.
Hell, if you really want to be rid of us I'm sure someone around here will even buy the molds from you so we can keep the kits in production.
Bottom line is we need to know whats going on. I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but to be honest, I'd rather just get what I paid for and I'm sure theres more that feel the same way I do.
Originally posted by Nate S:
so, if this is all true and if you were having family problems, why did you completely lie to nyceboi about his car?
thats what I'm saying.
I'd be pissed about the kits not being done, sh!t happens...
But how you did nyceboi was straight up grimey and triflin...how can you sit there and LIE to him about his car being finished. How the f!ck is he supposed to pick up an unfinished car?
If its anyone here that deserves a kit first its him...who the hell else would let u keep their car for 15 months? I sure as hell wouldn't...how can the damn donor car not be finished but your shipping kits out to OTHER people??? what the f!ck is that...come on man u gotta get it together.
Family problems is cool, thats understandable...flat out lying to somehow and taking him on a bullsh!t ride is not cool in any f!ckin way because that takes it from a business point of view to a personal one.
15 months and a donor car to work on as u wish...I think you owe him a little more than a body kit.
And if there are only two people...why the hell are you taking on multiple tasks?? How can you start one project when you haven't even finished the other? Ridiculous...
Originally posted by bk4293:
Honestly guys, all these threats arent getting anyone anywhere.
As stated before, who received these 3 or 4 kits? We all just want what we paid for. Legal action is something neither side wants, results are.
As for the 34 who paid a deposit and the 18 that have paid in full plus shipping. I agree, 34 kits is a lot better for you, but you also have to remember how long it took you guys to make the second option for the rear bumper. We did not get that option till the end of June 2003. And so far no one has opted for that bumper! So all that extra time spent on a second rear was wasted and caused a loss of interest.
IIRC you did get to keep those deposits from the other 14-15 people. Which from a business stand point is the right thing. Someone wants to buy a custom item, pays a deposit and that is not refundable. thats all fine. So while you did not get a full $650 on those kits, you instead got a free $100-$150. That $$$ is free and clear to you, you have no material costs, no labor cost while making a kit. That money can be put toward your tooling costs you incur.
Bottom line is we do not want any more lies, we do not want weeks of silence. We did pay you the amount requested for the service you offer. If you do not want to fulfill your part of the agreement start sending out refunds.
Guys I am making kit and then "Giving the molds to another company that can handle the call for the contour. I did lie to Nirish about his car and I am not proud of it. I [censored] up and tried to take on to much thinking I could get it done. I know I did not handle the business or the customers right. I am not filing bankruptcy. I am trying to get everything in order to fullfill the gb and stop the madness. I am not trying to screw people here. As said I want the kits out within the next two months for all. That is all I have to offer. I have nothing else. I just thought I could help in the begining and then It became to much. Once again I am trying to right a wrong .
Crofty59 tell me in plan engligh. I ordered just the hoodwith the scoop(your shiping it with Bk4293s stuff) and now i hear its not going to happen. If this is so i want my money back thats all. And when can i get my money back($350). If you decide the hood is going to be made then were all good if not please just give me back my $350.
Paypal address is
Kajork20@yahoo.com in case your refunding people.
Guys once again i want to apologize for this. I do not want to go down as a deadbeat. I will fulfill the orders and then I will close the shop. That is what is best, for all people. The hood is being made. The 34 kits is not the issue. I wanted to do something in the industry that would make mouths drop. That is why i wanted the contour. One thing led to another and i just backed up. I will tell you now that Julio Patino and Doug Christman the next kits out.
So you are going to make the Hood with the Scoop on it right right?
Btw thanks for starting to post again and letting us know whats going on. Hopefully everything will work out.
Take out a loan and give these guys their money back!
or give the mold to EXTREME DIMENTIONS in califronia.
Pay them the money in full,so they can get the kits out.
This company made my kit in 6 months!This would be an
easy fix to this problem.No legal action and alot of
happy people here.
extreme dimensions will also have spares if you should
get into an accident.Kaotic won,t be around to supply
you with parts.
Iam not invloved in GB but ......
Sounds like someone is covering there ass in order to hide assets from a potential suit.
Re-read the last few pages of posts and read about the Dodge Stratus guys waiting 2yrs for a hood that they have paid for and nothing has been delivered. They are told to be patient.
Unless you see a scan of the original shipping docs to said person I would not beleive any of these kits are on there way. NYCEboi was there last week and saw no kits being produced or laying around, now, 1 week later you hear 4 kits have shipped?
I think the money went into a Hemi Ram and a new Bass boat, that or a personal pyschiatrist to help with the delusional thoughts and habitual lieing.
yeah, prove us wrong. lets see the shipping documents. now.
You said these were already shipping out 2 per week.
That was a lie.
You said Nyceboi's 'Tour was done and at the paint shop.
That was a lie.
You said countless other things.
All were a lie.
And now you say you're really going to ship out 2 a week.
.... Ever heard the saying "Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me"?
Peter Lim...5011241965
Mike Rohn...5011241947
Matt's front
and there is one more that i don't have around yet.
What trucking company do you use?
Originally posted by Crofty59:
I will tell you now that Julio Patino and Doug Christman the next kits out.
WTF! How do #4 and #8 on the list ship??? Shouldnt #4 and #5 ship?? I know I didnt get my kit and I am #7
www.myyellow.com...and that was the order in which i had it written down.
501124196 November 19, 2003 November 11, 2003 Baltimore, MD Baltimore, MD Delivered to customer
501124194 November 13, 2003 November 06, 2003 Detroit, MI Detroit, MI Delivered to customer
Thats from Yellows website
And that web site is
http://www.myyellow.com if you want to check tracking numbers through them.
baltimore,maryland went to me!Thats the xtreme kit
your talking about!Not kaotic!
Peter Lim...5011241965 is Svt St Pete and i just Pmed him as well as makeing a post in his section. If i find out that he didnt get his kit and that we were Lied to again then i just want my money back Chris.
I smell something
I'm happy I just went with the SVT kit. This guy needs a good ass kickin.
If SVT ST PETE did get his stuff he never once posted anything about it. I checked his posts and while there's a lot of them, there's nothing about any kit in the last 3 months.
Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
I smell something
Ya think Pete recieved a big box from a company called Kaotic Innovations and just forgot to open it???
Chris man, it looks like your digging yourself deeper into a hole man. According to that two kits were delivered in November....Ya think both people forgot to mention what they got in the mail?
and if he actually got his kit, why is it that he has never replyed to this thread? and i doubt he didnt see this thread- he's a [censored] moderator.
Maybe he got his kit and was so excited after he got it on he just hopped in his car and kept driving and driving and driving and...oh nevermind.
Hey the tracking number says it all it was deleivered to Advanced paint technologies in Ypsilanti, MI. Peter lims was sent to Rockville MD.....what else can i give you to show that they shipped out. The tracking number should say who it was sent to and when.......as for proof ask the two guys on the board, I don't know their board names.
Originally posted by sigma:
.... Ever heard the saying "Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me"?
exactly...
i'm not left with much to work with Chris. if i leave my car there i can just imagine you closing shop and i never finding my car again...
flat out i don't trust you anymore and therefore will never again. your only option is to get your tools in your car drive down to my town and work out of a garage of my choosing - finish the car to fulfill your obligation to my me and my car and the rest of CEG.
if you can't finish my car in two weeks then forget it - you've had more than enough time. put the other kits on HOLD and finish my car IMMEDIATLEY.
two weeks is reasonable time - Tony said it would take 4 days for him to finish the body work - you're more experienced then him so I imagine it would take you less time. Paint will take about the same or less.
after that finish the kits for CEG.
I want that car in Import Motion Feb 7. If you can't I will drop the car @ a body shop that can - you can go there and get the apprasial for the work and comp me.
Originally posted by Crofty59:
Hey the tracking number says it all it was deleivered to Advanced paint technologies in Ypsilanti, MI. Peter lims was sent to Rockville MD.....what else can i give you to show that they shipped out. The tracking number should say who it was sent to and when.......as for proof ask the two guys on the board, I don't know their board names.
All the tracking number says is that something got shipped out. What that something is nobody knows but you and whoever recieved the package. I still smell something and the stench is getting strong.If you did ship these kits out you would have copies of the shipping papers saying how many boxes went out and weights etc. With all the lying you've done in the past I don't believe you for a second.
Originally posted by bk4293:
501124196 November 19, 2003 November 11, 2003 Baltimore, MD Baltimore, MD Delivered to customer
Thats from Yellows website
Notice Petes last post on the 17th.
Now if the kit did go out and petes got it or didnt get the notice that Yellows got for some reason then im sorry for being an ass but you brought it on yourself by lieing once to us more then once.
school starts next week - so basically you have this week to finish the car. I'm off Monday - Thursday.
IT'S GO TIME
I just want to make things clear.My kit was shipped from
california at the same time as SVT PETE.I,am the only one
from CEG living in baltimore who ordered a kit.All other
capitol CEG members live outside of baltimore.My kit
was shipped by statewide trucking and was made by extreme.
If the kaotic kit was sent to me, I would of kept it and sent SVT pete the extreme kit
when, and if i get my kit i will post right after. If not kaotic already knows what im going to do to them. Im basically split both ways, i want my kit or my money back. I also, as a very good friend to nirish i want his car finished. I have already warned you and you already know what is going to happen if i dont get my stuff. But im giving you the benefit of a doubt and give you a week and a half, which is 2 weeks from the day that you called me. I expect a traking number with it showing that the kit has been shipped. Some pictures before shipping would also help out alot. And finally, chris im sorry we all had to go through this and i know you have a lot of [censored] going through your head. Im trully sorry about your wife and hope she gets better. You should really think about bringin her to houston where our hospitals are getting rid of cancer better than anyone. But you must also finish what you started.
and also it would help out alot if you or someone answered the phone at the shop every once in a while.
I'm sorry guys for not having posted regarding the GB.
I only check a couple forums regularly (Capitol CEG and Aesthetics).
To start off,
Yes, I did receive my kit in late November.
I am going to give you my honest opinion on this guys. As anyone in Capitol CEG will tell you, I tell it like it is.
~ The kit is well below average in worksmanship and quality
Cofty, why aren't the kits being molded by a company? Why are you hand making every single kit?
My kit looks like you molded it together and took a utility knife and sawzall to it to cut it out. I'm going to have to spend extra money to have a shop fill these excessive cuts. What should be straight lines look like waves because it was cut by hand.
On the front bumper, it looks like you cracked or broke it and instead of fixing it, you just sanded it down and made it smooth. It leaves a big gap and I have to get a shop to fix that.
~ We were told that these body kits would be "direct bolt on" - false.
Why aren't these kits direct bolt on?
1. The rear bumper bolts on yes. But there are no holes and moutning points for it to mount to the body of the car next to the wheels. It will require more money and fabrication to get the rear bumper mounted.
2. The side skirts are ridiculous and a joke. They don't bolt on. You will have to drill them onto your door sills. They also stick out about 3 inches away from the car and look like running boards. This is a car - not an SUV.
I can't believe the condition my kit arrived in. It's pathetic. If you ship out any more kits that look anything like mine, you guys are doing a real hack job on these kits and ripping people off.
Considering the time it has taken for this kit to be produced, I would expect a top-notch, high quality, direct bolt-on kit.
This kit was not worth the almost 2 years and $750+ I paid for it. I regret it without a doubt.
PS - I will take and post pics if anyone wants to see the "workmanship".
EDIT: Pics taken in the dark (sorry):
And the plot thickens.....
Originally posted by outkast:
I just want to make things clear.My kit was shipped from
california at the same time as SVT PETE.I,am the only one
from CEG living in baltimore who ordered a kit.All other
capitol CEG members live outside of baltimore.My kit
was shipped by statewide trucking and was made by extreme.
If the kaotic kit was sent to me, I would of kept it and sent SVT pete the extreme kit
your posts confuse me..lol
Originally posted by nyceboi:
Originally posted by outkast:
I just want to make things clear.My kit was shipped from
california at the same time as SVT PETE.I,am the only one
from CEG living in baltimore who ordered a kit.All other
capitol CEG members live outside of baltimore.My kit
was shipped by statewide trucking and was made by extreme.
If the kaotic kit was sent to me, I would of kept it and sent SVT pete the extreme kit
your posts confuse me..lol
hes saying that he received a kit
BUT the kit he received was made by another company NOT Kaotic...
Originally posted by SVT ST PETE:
I'm sorry guys for not having posted regarding the GB.
I only check a couple forums regularly (Capitol CEG and Aesthetics).
To start off, Yes, I did receive my kit in late November.
I am going to give you my honest opinion on this guys. As anyone in Capitol CEG will tell you, I tell it like it is.
~ The kit is well below average in worksmanship and quality
Cofty, why aren't the kits being molded by a company? Why are you hand making every single kit?
My kit looks like you molded it together and took a utility knife and sawzall to it to cut it out. I'm going to have to spend extra money to have a shop fill these excessive cuts. What should be straight lines look like waves because it was cut by hand.
On the front bumper, it looks like you cracked or broke it and instead of fixing it, you just sanded it down and made it smooth. It leaves a big gap and I have to get a shop to fix that.
~ We were told that these body kits would be "direct bolt on" - false.
Why aren't these kits direct bolt on?
1. The rear bumper bolts on yes. But there are no holes and moutning points for it to mount to the body of the car next to the wheels. It will require more money and fabrication to get the rear bumper mounted.
2. The side skirts are ridiculous and a joke. They don't bolt on. You will have to drill them onto your door sills. They also stick out about 3 inches away from the car and look like running boards. This is a car - not an SUV.
I can't believe the condition my kit arrived in. It's pathetic. If you ship out any more kits that look anything like mine, you guys are doing a real hack job on these kits and ripping people off.
Considering the time it has taken for this kit to be produced, I would expect a top-notch, high quality, direct bolt-on kit.
This kit was not worth the almost 2 years and $750+ I paid for it. I regret it without a doubt.
PS - I will take and post pics if anyone wants to see the "workmanship".
Just Fuggin great! What the hell is going on! I am thinking I just want my money back and ill go with something else! Seriously I didnt pay $750+ and waited who knows how long for crap!
Originally posted by SVT ST PETE:
To start off, Yes, I did receive my kit in late November.
I am going to give you my honest opinion on this guys. As anyone in Capitol CEG will tell you, I tell it like it is.
~ The kit is well below average in worksmanship and quality
I liked it better when no one had a kit
Edit - are these made out of Fiberglass or urethane?
Originally posted by KnuKonceptz:
Edit - are these made out of Fiberglass or urethane?
Glass
fiberglass, just as advertised, contrary to petes experience my body guy was pretty happy in general with the craftsmanship of the bumper, it took him longer to prep it than he first had thought but he did tell me every glass kit he'd worked on basically went the same way so there was nothing anymore negative about mine than the next, and the fitment was very very good as he put it, i tend to agree... while i do have my doubts because of everything that's gone on here, the product was as described. and we cant ask for anything more than that. bottom line, i am happy with my bumper.
I can't even tell what the second picture is... What body piece is that? Looks like it was put through a crash test and then sent out... Thank God I didn't get into this group buy!
Sorry about everyone's luck...
Mark
This is better than Days Of Our Lives...
It's like playing Clue with money
It was colonel Musturd dammit!!!!!
Alright Chris here's your chance to save face in this matter as discussed. Can the rest of us get quality kits fast???????????
These Kits are made of fiberglass.. each piece is hand laid.. as done by 90% of the companies on the market.. our kits do fit better than 90% of other companies if you have never installed a kit before it would be best if a qualified body shop did it.. Direct bolt on kits never go on exactly how a stock bumper does.. sorry that's the difference between fiberglass and stock..
You're kits will ship as soon as we can get them done.. we are working to get them shipped asap.. Kaotic is done excepting new orders.. All current orders will be fullfilled but that is all.
Originally posted by tnovello:
These Kits are made of fiberglass.. each piece is hand laid.. as done by 90% of the companies on the market.. our kits do fit better than 90% of other companies if you have never installed a kit before it would be best if a qualified body shop did it.. Direct bolt on kits never go on exactly how a stock bumper does.. sorry that's the difference between fiberglass and stock..
You're kits will ship as soon as we can get them done.. we are working to get them shipped asap.. Kaotic is done excepting new orders.. All current orders will be fullfilled but that is all.
What are you going to do with the molds then???
"Direct bolt on kits never go on exactly how a stock bumper does.." Do all of the 98+ Contours have different stock mounting locations?? Maybe in an effort to "spice things up" Ford elected to make each 98+ Contour different to thwart would be body kit manufacturers. Sounds like the 2 years of waiting was not well spent making these kits work on a car they were specificallly designed for. Based on the posts do far, the only pieces that have been fitted to a car were installed by a body shop, both indicate they will require custom fabrication to have them installed.
I can't believe this GB. I was going to be in this GB but decided I might sell the Contour for a new toy instead. I since bought a '03 miata, a car for which various body kits exist of varying levels of complexity. I have yet to see anyone experiance the delays, frustration and dissapointment I have heard with your kits.
Good luck to you.
The molds are being given to another company that can keep up with the demand. Along with other molds. The kit fits great, as for the headlight gap: its b/c the urethane is thick and the glass is not. Remedy put 3m two-way tape under the front. The parts are stronger than most bodykits out on the market. It is double layered and reinforced mounting. the vents are hand cut and extra left for the bodyshop to finish. All of our parts are hand done from start to finish. That is how most of the kits on the martket are. The only different is we produce inthe us and they produce in Asian countries. The quality of kits are good and strong. Installation is simple the body work should be left to professional. Its simple.
I will attest to the quality and strength - i'm not here to knock that. If you've read any or my prior accounts at the shop Chris has jumped on hoods, bent body kits and stood on them as if a table without damage.
I'm here because of how the business was run and how my car and I were handled by Chris/Kaotic. It was in the interest of everybody in the group buy to know exactly what transpired from October till now.
**** as for my car...
Chris and I have agreed to see the project through on the terms that the car will be worked on in my town at a garage of my choosing. I will be giving updates as necessary.
Once the location of the car is set I want CHRIS to give updates as well along with his COMPLETION DATE that I will hold him to with everyone here as my witness.
Originally posted by Crofty59:
Installation is simple the body work should be left to professional. Its simple.
Originally posted by SVT ST PETE:
~ We were told that these body kits would be "direct bolt on" - false.
Why aren't these kits direct bolt on?
1. The rear bumper bolts on yes. But there are no holes and moutning points for it to mount to the body of the car next to the wheels. It will require more money and fabrication to get the rear bumper mounted.
Hey Crofty, I just wanted to ask if the widebody is still getting shipped along with my kit as planned. Thanks for all of the new updates.
Peace,
Doug C.
Originally posted by SVT ST PETE:
~ We were told that these body kits would be "direct bolt on" - false.
Why aren't these kits direct bolt on?
1. The rear bumper bolts on yes. But there are no holes and moutning points for it to mount to the body of the car next to the wheels. It will require more money and fabrication to get the rear bumper mounted.
The parts are direct bolt on.. the kit should have come with self taping screws.. that is how the front of the rear bumper is to be attached.. the style of the mounts that ford used can not be made out of fiberglass. that is something that happens when aftermarket parts are made.. We were the only company to even attempt a full replacement rear bumper for the contour. Unfortunetly there are reasons why no one has done it before.. the parts fit fine and no rearl Fabrications are necessary to put the back bumper on..
tnovello, when do u expect the pre 98 kit to start production?
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
tnovello, when do u expect the pre 98 kit to start production?
I think your SOL bro
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
tnovello, when do u expect the pre 98 kit to start production?
I think your SOL bro
I think he was being terribly sarcastic!
Originally posted by tnovello:
The parts are direct bolt on.. the kit should have come with self taping screws.. that is how the front of the rear bumper is to be attached.. the style of the mounts that ford used can not be made out of fiberglass. that is something that happens when aftermarket parts are made.. We were the only company to even attempt a full replacement rear bumper for the contour. Unfortunetly there are reasons why no one has done it before.. the parts fit fine and no rearl Fabrications are necessary to put the back bumper on..
Ok, now you guys lost me. Do these bolt over the exsisting bumper with self taping screws from the front??? I was under the impression these replace the factory bumpers covers.
Originally posted by tnovello:
Originally posted by SVT ST PETE:
~ We were told that these body kits would be "direct bolt on" - false.
Why aren't these kits direct bolt on?
1. The rear bumper bolts on yes. But there are no holes and moutning points for it to mount to the body of the car next to the wheels. It will require more money and fabrication to get the rear bumper mounted.
The parts are direct bolt on.. the kit should have come with self taping screws.. that is how the front of the rear bumper is to be attached.. the style of the mounts that ford used can not be made out of fiberglass. that is something that happens when aftermarket parts are made.. We were the only company to even attempt a full replacement rear bumper for the contour. Unfortunetly there are reasons why no one has done it before.. the parts fit fine and no rearl Fabrications are necessary to put the back bumper on..
I received no screws or bolts to mount any of the kit...
The instructions give no indication of how to mount the rear bumper. So are you saying to mount the rear, you must drill through the bumper itself to keep the sides of the rear bumper from flapping around??
Whata friggin joke
with all due respect, you guys are being frickin retarded here, wings west, to my knowledge, is the only company that replicates factory fasteners, andys autosports might. this is how most aftermarket kits go on. they screw, they bondo, they clamp. there is no TRUE bolt on body kit, every one of em needs a fair ammount of work to get lookin good, then they need a good body guy to spray them so the paint sticks and goes down well. i would urge any of you bitching to take your kits to a quality body shop and cry to them about the lack of fasteners. my buddys xenon body kit (big name, lots of circulation) for his neon was held on the sides by friggin c-clamps!
THESE ARE NOT FORD BUMPERS, they arent abs, they dont have 235203579823507 man hours of friggin engineering.
and they are bolt on, i used 4 of my front factory screw mounting points to put mine on so
<breather>
those of you who thought these things would show up abs plastic black in a box from ford with 6 facny little fasteners are smoking dope, this isnt their fault. there's a lot to fault them for, this isnt it. quit bitching about EVERYTHING. [censored] about the service, thats what stinks. stick to the facts and jump off the crybaby crap.
Originally posted by Speed Demon:
with all due respect, you guys are being frickin retarded here,
THESE ARE NOT FORD BUMPERS, they arent abs, they dont have 235203579823507 man hours of friggin engineering.
and they are bolt on, i used 4 of my front factory screw mounting points to put mine on so
<breather>
If this was directed towards me:
I see this picture
Looks all good.
Then I hear they come with 4 self taping screws, maybe you havent seen the kit available for the avenger that the SCREWS ARE ON THE OUTSIDE. Thats why I asked if these are just covers that go on over the current bumper. (like the one sheap'n sh!tty contour kit that bolts to the exsisting cover) WHY did I ask?? Well cuz this is actually going on my 95, I have 98+ HID kit and a 98+ CF hood on order so if the kit I waited on for 2 years requires a 98+ bumper to be screwed to them I am hosed!!!
I do not expect to get a box, wet sand, paint and install. I am quite sure no one makes a product this way.
BTW I have never seen any of Kaotic Products and have not bashed their workmanship, how can I???
Originally posted by Speed Demon:
they dont have 235203579823507 man hours of friggin engineering.
isnt that how many hours there are in 2 years?
Ladies and Gentlemen,
The bumpers and sideskirts are full replacements. The are screwed and bolted from the inside of the bumper so no mounting can be seen. In the box there should be replacement bolts, 18 self taping screws. The front gets one in each corner, and uses the push tabs under the headlights. The sides get one on the front and rear sillplates, and two in each corner. The rear gets one one each corner and one on each side where the tabs are. The rear also uses 4 replacement bolts for the subbumper/exhaust hangers. You use the stock nuts to connect them. A person with little mechanical skill should be able to put this kit on in 2 hrs, provided they can get the damn screwws to catch the metal with out slipping off the drill(sorry bout that matt). Nirish's front and rear took me about an hour and a half to align and bolt on. The sides took all of ten minutes each. Just to let you know all kits will be out by next month, and as it seems another company will have available bodykits to sell to the open market. After the molds are deleivered I will post the details. Thank you.
Thank you, that is what I thought.
Originally posted by Crofty59:
and as it seems another company will have available bodykits to sell to the open market. After the molds are deleivered I will post the details. Thank you.
sell the mold to krazykustomz.com. Craig Flango is one of co-owners i believe and also owns a contour. He might be interested in this.
And to those who ordered a Pre 98 kit including myself, we better receive a full refund!
Originally posted by Crofty59:
In the box there should be replacement bolts, 18 self taping screws.
Crofty,
I received no bolts or screws. Can you please ship those out to me?
Thanks.
Hey, Crofty sorry but since mine is the next kit to be shipped I am very curious if you are still sending me the widebody with it. Or just my kit and a refund for the widebody?
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
sell the mold to krazykustomz.com. Craig Flango is one of co-owners i believe and also owns a contour. He might be interested in this.
And to those who ordered a Pre 98 kit including myself, we better receive a full refund!
quote=MapOfTaziFoSho] Originally posted by livinsvt:
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
tnovello, when do u expect the pre 98 kit to start production?
I think your SOL bro
I think he was being terribly sarcastic!
To Mapoftawhatever why do you even bother to post
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
sell the mold to krazykustomz.com. Craig Flango is one of co-owners i believe and also owns a contour. He might be interested in this.
Craig owns a cougar, which was one of the first duratec engine to be kitted with the Street Flight turbo. Also he is heavily sponsored and a great guy. Not a bad cougar either.
I wonder if craig would be interested in this.
Originally posted by FLCEGkid:
Craig owns a cougar, which was one of the first duratec engine to be kitted with the Street Flight turbo.
he also owns a purple pearl contour. 
oh yeah i rememebr that one to, i got a pic of it somewhere, it had chrome rims and a black wing.
Ladies and gentlemen:
I have found another shop that is willing to finish my car. They've been doing it for years and the owner is awesome and is coming by to check out my car in an hour. They are going to finish the body work and paint the car.
The shop is awesome and will remain unnamed until released. The do a lot of custom work - worked on McLaurens, Ferraris, Mercedes..etc. I called them up and told him my situation and the current condition of the car and he invited me to check out his shop and hung out with me for a while - he showed me his entire portfolio of cars worked on.
Too bad they don't do production stuff though but they're first rate with a reputation to boot.
Since it's $$ out of my empty pocket I'm going to have some extra stuff done with some vrrrmmm phsssss hopefully.
IF ANYBODY KNOWS CRAIG (orange cougar) see if he's willing to work out some sponsorships for me. Widebody, lambo doors, full sound system w/screens up the whazoo ($5000+!!! for that), hehe..yeah i'm going all out and in good spirits since this morning.
I hope everything else works out for you all. I will remain available to all of you till everyone is taken care of.
good deal dude...best of luck to u
man - that's the worst english i've written recently... I sure didn't deserve that A in upper division English...lol.
you mean Craig Flango?
http://www.krazykustomz.com/ Go there Nyceboi
Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
you mean Craig Flango?
http://www.krazykustomz.com/
Go there Nyceboi
fixed your link:
KrazyKustomz
Originally posted by ElKy:
Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
you mean Craig Flango?
http://www.krazykustomz.com/
Go there Nyceboi
fixed your link:
KrazyKustomz
oops sorrry my bad...damn cold weather I'm friggin delirious
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
Originally posted by Crofty59:
and as it seems another company will have available bodykits to sell to the open market. After the molds are deleivered I will post the details. Thank you.
sell the mold to krazykustomz.com. Craig Flango is one of co-owners i believe and also owns a contour. He might be interested in this.
And to those who ordered a Pre 98 kit including myself, we better receive a full refund!
a full refund for the pre-98 guys should be sent back right away since the kits are not getting made and there is no need to hold our money anymore. I can spend the $650 on repairs right about now...
pre98s - full refund
hoods - full refund
widebody - full refund
(if you paid me I do have record of your transaction (including all transaction numbers and even the envelope or original paypal reciept!) If you paid Terry Knight Jr. you will have to go through him)
From what I understand only the 4 piece is being made.
Sorry on the PDF delays guys - still working on it - I can fax your stuff just give me a fax number. Fax is not necessary since I will have the PDFs and my affidavit soon but if you need them right away let me know. I've been caught up with the car and allocating funds to get her finished - it's costing me a lot and I know Kaotic/Chris won't come through since they havn't made any initative to move on my car.
There are some potential sponsors as soon as she's painted - since last summer when it was supposed to be done I was calling companies but they all wanted pictures of the car. Of course I couldn't do that...
Any ways, Chris has never set a deadline he can keep (I have AIM logs and just out of curiosity I did a search for "two weeks" and variations.... yeah, he's notorious for that since you all know I used to tell you "oh two more weeks" since he was the one telling me all that info)
I hope it works out for everyone
after looking at that krazykustomz website, the guy is definitely interested in creating body kits
u guys just gotta show him that the business is there...
oh... and the molds....
they're going to Andy's Autosport (from what I was told by one of them).... not good
Andy's has horrible customer service and really screwed over some of the Cougar guys. Just do a search on CEG or the Cougar site... you'll see.
OK WTF from what chris is saying the hoods are going being made and now Nirish is saying there not. Chris if your not gonna make the hoods then stop [censored] Bs me and give me my money back.
Nirish please send me the file asap. Can you email it to me. or send it Snail mail. I want everything i can get before my deadline of march.
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
sell the mold to krazykustomz.com. Craig Flango is one of co-owners i believe and also owns a contour. He might be interested in this.
And to those who ordered a Pre 98 kit including myself, we better receive a full refund!
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
tnovello, when do u expect the pre 98 kit to start production?
I think your SOL bro
I think he was being terribly sarcastic!
To Mapoftawhatever why do you even bother to post
Why do you bother to post?
Unless if Chris got another hood to work on I don't see how they are going to be made. He took the hood scoop off my car for whatever reason and refinished to look stock. I'm having my new shop mold it back for me but I don't know about you guys.
Chris will probably inform you soon on exactly what is happening.
1st.. Yes the Molds have been
given to andy's autosport and they will be completeing the BB for you guys. Any questions and comments now need to be directed to them. They recieved the molds yesterday.
www.andysautosport.com 1-800-419-1152
2.as of last week kaotic innovations no longer is a buisness. the phones have been turned off. we are no longer in the shop.
3. Yes Chris did obtain a hood from another source and will be making the hood. the refunds on the wide body will be sent out as soon as possible. I do not know when either will be competed you will have to speak to chris.
thanks
and have a nice day
Finaly some closure. Thanks for the update. I see they already have it on there website. I assume that they will not be doing the widebody. Was there ever a mold made for the fenders?
I wouldnt call it closure til my kits on my car.
So has anyone got these kits yet?
I IMed someone from the Krazy Kustons web site:
Quote:
Tjnovello (9:40:17 PM): the c27 has been done.
Tjnovello (9:40:24 PM): they are shipping out
Tjnovello (9:40:47 PM): all orders will be filled shortly
Has anyone contacted Andys yet to find out exactly what is going on? Perhaps so THEY can begin to give us some info on delivery dates and whats happening with our deposits?
I dropped them an email, we'll hope to hear from them tomorrow
Yeah that's it.. bug the [censored] out of andy's a day after they get the molds wondering what the date will be when 17 kits are getting shipped.. you guys wonder why your aftermarket sucks.. no one wants to put up with it.. i know that is the main reason why chris and i only updated once in a while.. be happy your getting aftermarket support.. you haven't been waiting a year for the kit from andy's.. you have to start over with them.. it's day one.. new people no problems so far.. remember that and it'll help make things go smoothly. I know andy's will make good..
Originally posted by tnovello:
Yeah that's it.. bug the [censored] out of andy's a day after they get the molds wondering what the date will be when 17 kits are getting shipped.. you guys wonder why your aftermarket sucks.. no one wants to put up with it.. i know that is the main reason why chris and i only updated once in a while.. be happy your getting aftermarket support.. you haven't been waiting a year for the kit from andy's.. you have to start over with them.. it's day one.. new people no problems so far.. remember that and it'll help make things go smoothly. I know andy's will make good..
Dude, your an @sshole! Why is it that everything gets blamed on Chris, but he was pretty cool about the whole thing and very apologetic for all thats happened?
You say it was Chris' project but you come on here bad mouthing us. Your company accepted the job, what are you so pi$$ed about?
We were happier than sh!t just wanting bodykits, you guys wanted to take it farther, we agreed.
Man, there's no reason to take it out on us because we had a dream of actually starting an aftermarket for a car that had none. You've never had a dream???
Dude, it's been longer than a year. I sent in myu final payment in August of 2002 and I was one of the last ones because of cash issues. You can continue on your throne of self rightousness, I juat want what I paid for.
Originally posted by tnovello:
Yeah that's it.. bug the [censored] out of andy's a day after they get the molds wondering what the date will be when 17 kits are getting shipped.. you guys wonder why your aftermarket sucks.. no one wants to put up with it.. i know that is the main reason why chris and i only updated once in a while.. be happy your getting aftermarket support.. you haven't been waiting a year for the kit from andy's.. you have to start over with them.. it's day one.. new people no problems so far.. remember that and it'll help make things go smoothly. I know andy's will make good..
From Andy's Autosports email:
Bill, thanks for the email. We're happy to help. At this time, we have been provided the molds but not the list of orders to be fulfilled. Once we do get the list, it will be a matter of three weeks to fulfill their entire list of outstanding orders, as we have a thriving manufacturing plant and we will push the maximum output possible through a hand lay-up manufacturing process. Please feel free to stay in touch with me personally to keep updated on the status of your order.
Thanks,
Eric Ferguson
1-800-419-1152 x106
That is how you handle a business. We pay you, you provide a service (not favor's) There is a reason why Kaotic is no longer in business, it is because you guys cant run a business....Why? Not beacuse of your products, its because you think you do not have to answer to us.....
Originally posted by tnovello:
Yeah that's it.. bug the [censored] out of andy's a day after they get the molds wondering what the date will be when 17 kits are getting shipped.. you guys wonder why your aftermarket sucks.. no one wants to put up with it.. i know that is the main reason why chris and i only updated once in a while.. be happy your getting aftermarket support.. you haven't been waiting a year for the kit from andy's.. you have to start over with them.. it's day one.. new people no problems so far.. remember that and it'll help make things go smoothly. I know andy's will make good..
uh, how the hell does sending a company an email mean that you're bugging them? unlike you, other, REAL companies include customer support with their services.... i suggest that if you ever plan on starting another business, you enroll in a class that will teach you how to politely deal with customers. these classes can be found at your local community college.
Originally posted by tnovello:
Yeah that's it.. bug the [censored] out of andy's a day after they get the molds wondering what the date will be when 17 kits are getting shipped.. you guys wonder why your aftermarket sucks.. no one wants to put up with it.. i know that is the main reason why chris and i only updated once in a while.. be happy your getting aftermarket support..
Originally posted by Nate S:
uh, how the hell is sending a company an email bugging them? unlike you, other, REAL companies include customer support with their businesses.... i suggest that if you even plan on starting another business, you enroll in a class that will teach you how to politely deal with customers. these classes can be found at your local community college.
Bingo. Nate wins the "it had to be said" award for today. The reason our aftermarket sucks is because of companies like Kaotic, ELGlow (the GB I'm in right now), DTec Tuning, SHO Shop, and Performance Fords who think they can make an assload of money by offering a product to too many people, then being overwhelmed with producing and supporting it, or in some cases, just not supporting anything. If you're going to make a business of selling a product to a group of people, be it a small group like CEG or a large group like ClubSI, you have to be able to answer phone calls/emails/questions and not lie to your customers. Go try this at ClubSI where the aftermarket doesn't suck, and see how far you get. EDIT: ClubSI, where they have an entire forum dedicated to vouch/scam threads.
Originally posted by tnovello:
you haven't been waiting a year for the kit from andy's..
Right, and no one will have to either.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
oh... and the molds....
they're going to Andy's Autosport (from what I was told by one of them).... not good
Andy's has horrible customer service and really screwed over some of the Cougar guys. Just do a search on CEG or the Cougar site... you'll see.
From friends with prior experience I heard andys was over priced for not so good quality...Thats just what I have heard... Seems like any customer service is better than none... I really hate to see all of you getting screwed... I hope your body kits come out looking awesome...when you get them that is!
Originally posted by hetfield:
Go try this at ClubSI where the aftermarket doesn't suck, and see how far you get. EDIT: ClubSI, where they have an entire forum dedicated to vouch/scam threads.
i've been thinking we need maybe a rating system, something like the way we use to rate members back in the day...except this time its for vendors
"Yeah that's it.. bug the [censored] out of andy's a day after they get the molds wondering what the date will be when 17 kits are getting shipped.. you guys wonder why your aftermarket sucks.. no one wants to put up with it.. i know that is the main reason why chris and i only updated once in a while.. be happy your getting aftermarket support.."
Ignorance breeds stupidity..
Originally posted by unknown:
Originally posted by tnovello:
"Yeah that's it.. bug the [censored] out of andy's a day after they get the molds wondering what the date will be when 17 kits are getting shipped.. you guys wonder why your aftermarket sucks.. no one wants to put up with it.. i know that is the main reason why chris and i only updated once in a while.. be happy your getting aftermarket support.."
Ignorance breeds stupidity..
oh well im sorry that when we pay for stuff we expect to get it (within a year at that). and heaven forbid that we would like some customer support every once and a while. if you arent ready to deal with customers that expect a product in a timely fashion when they are dropping a decent sum of money, then im sorry.
people have waited forever for this. kaotic wasnt working on it, they were ignoring their customers, and until legal action was threatened, it looked like they were running with CEGers money.
yeah, ignorance sure does breed stupidity
Kingpin, you do realize that unknown was quoting tnovello, don't you?
oh, oops. well then redirect that towards tnovello.
my apologies. i just got worked up when i read that.
[edit] there i fixed it
no prob... I realized that by using quotation marks and not quote tags that some confusion was bound to ensue.
Favors? I wish I said something on that note earlier - business do not do favors - they provide a service for money... these people gave you money - invested in a project that could have made your business. Instead Kaotic fell due to the lack of professionalism by Chris/Kaotic. Yes Chris does good body work (well... my new shop is not saying the same thing.) But running a business - not even close. Had I not intervened and bridged a gap between Terry/Kaotic/CEG Kaotic and this entire GB would have failed earlier.
Taking 15 months and then you all have the odasity to complain that CEG is the problem?? Obsurd.
I'm a business major - this entire ordeal has made for an interesting presentation in my entrepruneur class.
OK since the Number is dead how are we suppose to get a hold of chris to find out whats going on with the Hoods.
Originally posted by I-Dom-In-8:
OK since the Number is dead how are we suppose to get a hold of chris to find out whats going on with the Hoods.
I suggest using both hands while someone else swings the tire iron.
Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
Originally posted by I-Dom-In-8:
OK since the Number is dead how are we suppose to get a hold of chris to find out whats going on with the Hoods.
I suggest using both hands while someone else swings the tire iron.
Thats is the funniest thing I have heard all day! I was reading this in one of my classes and I busted out laughing!
Originally posted by XKontour98:
Thats is the funniest thing I have heard all day! I was reading this in one of my classes and I busted out laughing!
Oh man... If I had the opportunity to read CEG in any of my classes I'd have failed out of school by now.
Originally posted by XKontour98:
Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
Originally posted by I-Dom-In-8:
OK since the Number is dead how are we suppose to get a hold of chris to find out whats going on with the Hoods.
I suggest using both hands while someone else swings the tire iron.
Thats is the funniest thing I have heard all day! I was reading this in one of my classes and I busted out laughing!
Lmao that is pretty funny though.
Originally posted by hetfield:
Originally posted by XKontour98:
Thats is the funniest thing I have heard all day! I was reading this in one of my classes and I busted out laughing!
Oh man... If I had the opportunity to read CEG in any of my classes I'd have failed out of school by now.
Yeah tell me about it! I finally figured out how to access my wireless internet on my laptop and the entire campus is designed with it so here goes my grades!
hello all i also have had a problem with kaotic and do not know what to do. i payed 984.00 to chris croft on dec 6th for a bumber and hood. last response was on jan 11th saying its almost done. now i recieve no response to e-mails, kaotis phone is disconnected what am i to do. any help is appreciated. thanks. my email is
mittonb@sbcglobal.net
Originally posted by mitton:
hello all i also have had a problem with kaotic and do not know what to do. i payed 984.00 to chris croft on dec 6th for a bumber and hood. last response was on jan 11th saying its almost done. now i recieve no response to e-mails, kaotis phone is disconnected what am i to do. any help is appreciated. thanks. my email is mittonb@sbcglobal.net
did you read what is being done? kaotic sold the mold to andys motorsports and they will make the remaining kits. youll have to get a refund for your hood. talk to nirish.
Chris Croft should be handling all RETURNS on the widebody and hoods AND PRE98 KITS since he has the money. I don't recall accepting payments in December so he probably paid Chris instead of me.
If he does not respond then the next step would be legal action of course since a service was not provided after funds have been put forth.
WTF!!??!?!?!?!!
WHY IS ANDY'S USING MY CAR TO SELL THEIR FREGGIN KIT?!! I'M PISSED! I DON'T WANT MY SH!!T ON THERE - SOMEBODY HELP ME OUT -
www.andysautobody.com
I GET SCREWED AND THEY GET TO ADVERTISE MY CAR?! IF THEY PAY FOR THE WORK ON MY CAR MAYBE THEY CAN.
Oh, and if makes you feel more comfortable knowing that Andy's is taking care of the kits - Chris used to work for them before starting Kaotic....
did you read what is being done? kaotic sold the mold to andys motorsports and they will make the remaining kits.
So I was viewing the Better Business Bureau's file on Andy's Motorsports and all I can say is WTF! It sounds like they are no better than Kaotic! In the past 36 months or since beginning of thier operation which ever is less they have averaged at minimun 1 complaint per month! Here is the link to the page on the BBB's site:
http://www.bbbsilicon.org/common.html?location=/home/common/www/bindr/report.php&bureau=sanjose&compid=207652
Here is a section of the article:
"Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau. Specifically, our records show a pattern of non-response to consumer complaints brought to its attention by the Bureau.
The company's size, volume of business, and number of transactions may have a bearing on the number of complaints received by the BBB. The complaints filed against a company may not be as important as the type of complaints, and how the company handled them. The BBB generally does not pass judgment on the validity of complaints filed.
The following data concerns complaints processed by the BBB since the firm's file was opened or over the last 36 months, whichever is less. Andy's Autosport has had 35 complaints. 1 was closed as Resolved. 34 were closed as No Response. Of these complaints: 2 were concerning Selling Practices. 4 were concerning Service Issues. 4 were concerning Credit or Billing. 12 were concerning Delivery Issues. 9 were concerning Refund Practices. 4 were concerning Product Quality."
I sure hope something comes good out of all of this! And so we continue to wait..............
Did you take the pictures?
Originally posted by nyceboi:
If you guys could please tell them they can either remove pictures of my car or provide me with monatery compensation which would in turn go to my freggin car that Chris failed to perform on.
I don't see how any of us would have anything to do with that. You might have to take care of your own business there, instead of shouting over here.
Originally posted by perry:
Did you take the pictures?
yeah I did.
Anyways - So i was pissed last night - I'm in a worse situation than any of you over this car so let me shout.
I should of given it a day to think about, so you were right. But I needed an avenue to let out my frustration and this is it...
BTW - the shop contacted me - I'll call them later today.
I have an idea see if you can get donations to finish your car... since you donated your car..
why were these given to Andys Autosports? I thought this was all trying to be resolved? Sounds like you're all setting yourselves up for more BS.
Andy's has had the mold a week, give them a chance. They replied promptly to my questions so give it a chance. Anything is better then the previous situation
Hey Guys:
I just got off the phone with Eric from Andy's Autosport. The conversation went smooth and we addressed both my concerns and the concerns of the GB. I want you all to know that I will provide them with the necessary information to fulfil this GB so you guys are taken care of - like I said, i'm going to do anything to fix this.
I also addressed my concerns over the reputation of the shop and told him how I already had a bad taste in my mouth due to the accounts on the Cougar boards along with various other parties who had issues with Andy's. The management did change about 2 or 3 years ago (the original Andys' was indeed plagued with problems) and they've had some growing pains but Eric seems to be a stand up guy and is trying to help ME out in anyway possible.
I will visit their shop and give you guys updates - I told Eric about the camaraderie between us and how you all have my back in this situation.
We are currently working something out - I will remain cooperative to make sure you guys are taken care of but he understands my concerns over the fact that my car should of been finished first piror to any kits being released.
I should have more updates later this week after talking to Eric again.
All I can say is I want my kit.
Originally posted by Ricksvt:
All I can say is I want my kit.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
We are currently working something out - I will remain cooperative to make sure you guys are taken care of but he understands my concerns over the fact that my car should of been finished first piror to any kits being released.
Thats great its nice your helping us out. But I was thinking, you haven't paid anything as of yet right? Maybe you should take that into consideration why other kits were being shipped. Plus you had WB,hood,doors etc.. None of that was originaly included in the deal. So I didn't see any problem with them shipping kits, on top of the fact that we were all complaning about time but you were not. Not trying to be an ass, but just thought I should point out a few things. Good luck with everything
I just want my hood or my money back....
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Originally posted by nyceboi:
We are currently working something out - I will remain cooperative to make sure you guys are taken care of but he understands my concerns over the fact that my car should of been finished first piror to any kits being released.
Thats great its nice your helping us out. But I was thinking, you haven't paid anything as of yet right? Maybe you should take that into consideration why other kits were being shipped. Plus you had WB,hood,doors etc.. None of that was originaly included in the deal. So I didn't see any problem with them shipping kits, on top of the fact that we were all complaning about time but you were not. Not trying to be an ass, but just thought I should point out a few things. Good luck with everything
uh...try again - i am paying to have it fixed, plus 15 months without my car plus payments/insurance and a headache I didn't need? All the trim on my car is damaged with overspray and other visable damage, my interior is even worse - covered with dust all long the headboard, vinyl, seats - I spend a few hours on it and it still looks like crap - I'll have to replace all that too. Chris did F me over big time - and you want me to look on the brigher side? yeah i know you're looking out for yourself and that's fine - but if it was you in my position you would think differently. n e wayz, I only told him that mine should of been completed first - that's outside of his control since another shop is working on it. I'm only stating what was SUPPOSED to be done...
I understand your position. I wasn't trying to offend you. I know its a tough situation. It sucks. There realy isn't a bright side to this whole thing. Just saying you might have been able to avoid a lot of that had you stepped up a long time ago. But whats done is done. You wanted a show car anyway. Just have to foot the bill now. Peace
Guys we all got F'd over, some harder then others. Atleast this thing has some closer, lets not get pissy after all this other crap is behind us. Nyce didnt have a car for 15 months, we were only out cash for that time.
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Originally posted by nyceboi:
We are currently working something out - I will remain cooperative to make sure you guys are taken care of but he understands my concerns over the fact that my car should of been finished first piror to any kits being released.
Thats great its nice your helping us out. But I was thinking, you haven't paid anything as of yet right? Maybe you should take that into consideration why other kits were being shipped. Plus you had WB,hood,doors etc.. None of that was originaly included in the deal. So I didn't see any problem with them shipping kits, on top of the fact that we were all complaning about time but you were not. Not trying to be an ass, but just thought I should point out a few things. Good luck with everything
no disrespect but stfu u just dont know what nirish went through for us and himself.
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Originally posted by nyceboi:
We are currently working something out - I will remain cooperative to make sure you guys are taken care of but he understands my concerns over the fact that my car should of been finished first piror to any kits being released.
Thats great its nice your helping us out. But I was thinking, you haven't paid anything as of yet right? Maybe you should take that into consideration why other kits were being shipped. Plus you had WB,hood,doors etc.. None of that was originaly included in the deal. So I didn't see any problem with them shipping kits, on top of the fact that we were all complaning about time but you were not. Not trying to be an ass, but just thought I should point out a few things. Good luck with everything
no disrespect but stfu u just dont know what nirish went through for us and himself.
u shouldnt say that again
Originally posted by svttour:
u shouldnt say that again
Yeah man, we're out a few hundred buck. Dude could have been out whatever he paid for the SVT. Lets not get pissy, lets just get our kits!!! 
did any one get a date on when this kit will be sent, by the new Co.I just dont want my summer to pass me bye agian and no kit....
They " should" all be shipped out in approx two weeks. Sorry about the other post. I guess It came out a little to harsh. Sorry. Good luck
This Kit is currently available through
www.andysautosport.com and is available for immiedate shipping and delivery
Originally posted by BMorgn66:
This Kit is currently available through www.andysautosport.com and is available for immiedate shipping and delivery
Umm, no. I really don't think so.
well mister ummm i really dont think so, i can forward the emails to you direct from andys auto sport. I love how people think they know everything.
good stuff, I guess i was just lying to everyone
Well Mister Umm, no. I really don't think so. I guess I just lying to everyone because I want people to like me, I am glad you run andys auto sport and that you know everything, i can send you a forward of the emails i recieved from the website if you like, but im sure you would say they were faked or something. Great work knowing everything....its awsome.
arnt we all glad 1314 runs andys auto sport and he knows that the kits arnt available, I must have just been lying because I want to become your friends. Good job knowing everything, and running a website.....keep it up bucko... if anyone would like a copy of the emails from andys auto sport, let me know. Nice Work
did I get my point across ????
Yeah, if your point was to be obnoxious and annoying...
Settle down ladies.......
3 posts in a row for what? sounds like you're asking to start something...
but answer me this, how are kits that are not complete shipping out immediately?
Wow B, path hit the nail on the head.
Let's see.
Nyceboi tells us on the 23rd of Jan that the molds of the kit will go to Andys.
Tnovello tells us that on the 26th, the molds have been given to Andy.
There are 17 kits that Andys needs to make and ship and needs to do before they start offering any kits to anyone else.
Now, if any schmo can get his kit before the people in the group buy, then Andys sucks and you were right. But I don't see it happening. Either way, you pointing out that the kits are already available is pretty lame, considering everyone here has already paid for their kit and is just waiting on it and has been waiting on it for over a year.
And to keep this thread from further hijacking and if you feel the need to continue to act like an idiot, you can feel free to PM me.
Originally posted by BMorgn66:
well mister ummm i really dont think so, i can forward the emails to you direct from andys auto sport. I love how people think they know everything.
good stuff, I guess i was just lying to everyone
Dumb...
Originally posted by BMorgn66:
arnt we all glad 1314 runs andys auto sport and he knows that the kits arnt available, I must have just been lying because I want to become your friends. Good job knowing everything, and running a website.....keep it up bucko... if anyone would like a copy of the emails from andys auto sport, let me know. Nice Work
Dumber...
Originally posted by BMorgn66:
well mister ummm i really dont think so, i can forward the emails to you direct from andys auto sport. I love how people think they know everything.
good stuff, I guess i was just lying to everyone
Dumberer...
Originally posted by BMorgn66:
did I get my point across ????
Well, tell us what the point of all that was?
dude stfu! You dont know what you are talkling about. Ive you come start a fight then dont start it on the boards. Also dont bother pming me or eric since i have a very short fuse and you will only piss me off. Yea im standing up for eric, if you have a problem with anyone on here then either 1. dont say anything
2. make a complaint to another admin
3. leave the board.
have a nice day.
I only ment to post once, but i keep trying and nothing was coming up until i reloaded the page. Im and idiot, also I wasn't trying to make anyone mad because i know what its like to want something and have to wait a million years for it. but the orig. thread is titled all potential and current buyers, so thats why i felt the need to drop the info. sorry for posting so many times before, like i said before IM AN IDIOT... sorry
Bryan
Originally posted by BMorgn66:
did I get my point across ????
Originally posted by BMorgn66:
like i said before IM AN IDIOT... sorry
Bryan
Hey nyce I just have a few questions, have you given Andy's the list with the order to ship the kit's in. Do you need our shipping info again to give Andy's? And is there a set time that they are going to finish your car?
Thanks,
Doug
I don't know what deal Andy's and I will come up with for my car - Eric and I talked and are working on getting him the information since I doubt Chris is smart enough to do even that - yes I doubt his abilities to the fullest.
Any way, I will probably talk to Eric tomorrow over @ Andy's and I will give him my list with all the contact information that I have. From there Eric will take on full responsibility for anything - after I have given Andy's the information I will be FREE! (which probably means I will no longer visit Contour.org
)
I'll try to remember to post pix of my car when finished - I do stay in contact with some of you off the board so I can send them photos.
Oh, and one more freggin annoying thing - I guess that ?Citation10 guy? is trying to sue me or has somehow come up with a case - Here is his email to me for whatever reason -
Quote:
This E Mail is to verify that i have placed a lawsuit on you , Case # 256-70-0071, Case was processed by a lawyer out of Miami Florida . I will get my $150.00 from you , Either i SUE you , or i go directly to you . I will get it . This issuse will never die , There is a lot of people who want to visit you have your face smashed in , Im not that violent . I just want my 150.00 returned to me . NOW BOY !
I feel this message is somewhat threatening, don't you think? Anyway - he knows he sent money to me FOR Kaotic/Chris and he also knows that they have the money. I thought the issue died and he went to Chris. He had harrassed me in the past and now is trying to do it again. I just wanted to put you all on notice just incase this dumbass tries to get anywhere. He has no grounds since I have proof of all my transactions - he's looking at a loss in legal fees for a fruitless attempt at suing. Let me know what you think.
Peace.
Honestly, I'm not sure. How did he pay you? I would think that if you cashed his check or money order, then he would collect from you. If you turned the money over to someone else, you would have to collect from that person to recover what you paid him back.
I'm not trying to get in a financial mess here over someone elses f*up. Everyone who paid me knew I accepted payment on behalf of Kaotic Innovations/Chris Croft. I paid Kaotic Innovations/Chris Croft the full amount I recieved. All this was tracked via bank transactions - so I can prove the full amount recieved was the full amout paid.
Those were the conditions when I accepted payment - I fulfilled my part of the deal.
i want to see all the people that wants to smash nyceboi's face in...cause i kno for a fact that no one's gonna even touch him...if they do...they're gonna get f**ked up by a lot of people...nyceboi knows a lot of people over here that has his back...so i would watch who your messing with...
Personally I don't think hes a bad guy...I just know that he feels he got ripped off of $150 and missed out on a body kit.
I really don't think hes any different from other people on here who just 1) want what they paid for 2)want their money back
should be an easy problem to solve I think since you're only dealing with $150 as opposed to $650+
omg dont believe that lie. First of all he said he had filed the lawsuit and then says that he either sues you or not. Which means he hasnt sued you yet. Another thing is that it will cost more than 150 to even get a lawyer to do that [censored].
Originally posted by tpham:
i want to see all the people that wants to smash nyceboi's face in...cause i kno for a fact that no one's gonna even touch him...if they do...they're gonna get f**ked up by a lot of people...nyceboi knows a lot of people over here that has his back...so i would watch who your messing with...
Yeah I wouldnt worry about it, I'm sure Citation has a hell of a lot more people that would like to smash his face in than Nicey does.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
Those were the conditions when I accepted payment - I fulfilled my part of the deal.
I understand that. But like I said, I don't know. It was a guess on my part, but you might want to look into it just to be safe in case he does follow through with it.
tpham = we really don't need e-thugging, ok. I'm sure everyone knows a lot of people who have their backs. Umm, just relax.
Nirish, when can i expect my full refund back?
Originally posted by 1314:
tpham = we really don't need e-thugging, ok. I'm sure everyone knows a lot of people who have their backs. Umm, just relax.
LOL - like the use of the term e-thugging.....What is funnier is the guy registered just to say that....
Any word from Andy's yet ... I'm #6 on the list.
Jared
Well lets put it this way. I talked to Andys today and they said they haven't even recieved the list yet and that they have already made ten other kits for random people that ordered off the webiste
. They will not do anything more until they receive it(I don't blame them) So whats the f*** deal here. How hard is it to deliver the list. NYCE were are you. I thought you were suppose to deliver the list on Monday. What the happened. At least let us know that you couldn't make it, or that something else was going on. I would assume you could at least email it to them or fax it. But that could have been done weeks ago. Did they say they needed Chris himself to deliver? Whats going on, you need to fill us in
I also need to know if there getting a mold for the hood or not. If not then im going to my CC company to get my money back on way or another.
As of yesterday i called my CC company to file a complaint, I'm sick of waiting and not hearing anything from anyone about the hoods. And im sure Nirish was right they never intended to make them unlike what chris said.
Andy's has ignored my calls and emails for the past 3 weeks since our initial communication. Also, I emailed those of you who are in the GB (if I had your addy) in regards to what Ashley said. I no longer have time for this game - I'll just take my losses and go.
FAQ:
Q. What's going on with the kit?
A. I don't know anything about the kit.
Q. How much longer till the kits are done?
A. I dunno, not a part of it.
Q. How's your car?
A. She's fine.
Q. Got any pix?
A. No.
Q. How do I contact Chris?
A. Nobody knows, his dumbass is in hiding and he doesn't respond to emails.
CROFTY59@HOTMAIL.COM
Q. Where does he live?
A. Last I heard he lives in Milpitas, CA, but also has residence in Pennsylvania where his parents live - he is orignally from PA.
I've tried to help - I've exerted energy I shouldn't have to - The door closed on me - I got screwed - You all know who has taken on responsibility and liability for the kits - and even they shut me out - I'm looking out for myself.
Peace.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
but also has residence in Pennsylvania where his parents live - he is orignally from PA.
any idea where at???
Payment Detail - My logs of payments from CEGers to Chris Croft CHRIS HAS A SIMILAR LIST but
The file is in PDF form. I don't want to post the original payments since you all probably have sensative information that doesn't need to be public.
The PDF states what it states - you guys paid me understanding I would transfer the funds to Chris Croft/Kaotic Innovations - and I paid Chris Croft/Kaotic Innovations for the amount that was paid to me.
What the payments are for are also detailed in the PDF.
If you are not on this list it's because you didn't pay me, you probably paid Terry Knight Jr. or Chris Croft/Kaotic Innovations directly.
I think Chris has a Washington Mutual account for anybody that wants to know. I don't know if that helps in tracking him down or not but I know he made some of the deposits I gave him there. He also went to the Washington Mutual bank in Oroville, CA.
so since chris has this info, will he be reimbursing me?
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
so since chris has this info, will he be reimbursing me?
Yo bro you might want to do what the other guy did. I hope you paid by C.C. Everyone, were probaly S.O.L. The guy is obviously run town and doesn't plan on paying up. Its going to be some work to locate this guy, those that called lawyors, need to call again. Nyce the people over at Andy's have no idea who you are and have not heard from anyone in a month(word from manager). Every time I have called I have had absoulty no problem what so ever getting through and finding out info. Also Chris has not given Andy's and money what so ever. Like I said they will do nothing until then. Delivering the list is also useless with out the money. They know they were "suppose" to build something like 18 kits. They are ready to go but no dough no go This whole thing is done until we find Chris. Its man hunt time.
Chris should be, but also - since Andy's Autosport took on responsibility for the Group Buy upon recieving the molds I feel they should be responsible. I don't know the details of the transfer but we all know Andy's said they would fulfill the GB.
If Chris did transfer liablility as part of the deal to Andy's then go after Andy's. If not - Chris is the one you need.
Eric has still not contacted me.
BTW: It spelled Lawyer
(Lawyor dont sound good
)
any lawyers in the house? maybe someone can tell us who really has the responsability.
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
so since chris has this info, will he be reimbursing me?
Yo bro you might want to do what the other guy did. I hope you paid by C.C. Everyone, were probaly S.O.L. The guy is obviously run town and doesn't plan on paying up. Its going to be some work to locate this guy, those that called lawyors, need to call again. Nyce the people over at Andy's have no idea who you are and have not heard from anyone in a month(word from manager). Every time I have called I have had absoulty no problem what so ever getting through and finding out info. Also Chris has not given Andy's and money what so ever. Like I said they will do nothing until then. Delivering the list is also useless with out the money. They know they were "suppose" to build something like 18 kits. They are ready to go but no dough no go This whole thing is done until we find Chris. Its man hunt time.
The part of them not hearing from me is B.S. I've contacted them multiple times and left Eric as Andy's several messages. I have his personal extention and personal email addy. I've called several times, and every time I've called someone else picks up and if I ask for Andy's they trasnfer me to voicemail and I never get a call or email back.
I'll call them now.
Sheesh... I hope this thing settles out good... (probaly wont though)
Got voice mail. 1-800-419-1152 x106 That's Erics extension - if someone else could find out what's up please let me know.
They are still using my picture of my car to sell kits.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
Got voice mail. 1-800-419-1152 x106 That's Erics extension - if someone else could find out what's up please let me know.
They are still using my picture of my car to sell kits.
Isnt that illegal if they dont have your consent?
i sent both chris and tony emails and i also got on to probetalk and sent them pms telling them to send the list.
Originally posted by KevContour:
Originally posted by nyceboi:
Got voice mail. 1-800-419-1152 x106 That's Erics extension - if someone else could find out what's up please let me know.
They are still using my picture of my car to sell kits.
Isnt that illegal if they dont have your consent?
it's his work phone number and extention - not his personal ph number
i think he was talking about them using your car.
Originally posted by lsneo:
i think he was talking about them using your car.
Yep
Originally posted by KevContour:
BTW: It spelled Lawyer (Lawyor dont sound good )
DOH . Nyce I just repeatin what they told me. They also said there waiting for payment. That was Chris's job. So on with the hunt
damn, now i feel bad that i stuck up for chris, and am the only one that got what i paid for.. well me and pete i guess...
anything i can do to help. let me know, although nirish knows everything i know and then some.
WTF My Deposit isn't on the list.. and it was comfirmed by nyceboi and chris... humm 150.00 was the deposit.. it should be under the name jmbenally or jerrold Benally.. god there better be a good excuse for this.....
Originally posted by nyceboi:
Payment Detail - My logs of payments from CEGers to Chris Croft CHRIS HAS A SIMILAR LIST but
The file is in PDF form. I don't want to post the original payments since you all probably have sensative information that doesn't need to be public.
The PDF states what it states - you guys paid me understanding I would transfer the funds to Chris Croft/Kaotic Innovations - and I paid Chris Croft/Kaotic Innovations for the amount that was paid to me.
What the payments are for are also detailed in the PDF.
If you are not on this list it's because you didn't pay me, you probably paid Terry Knight Jr. or Chris Croft/Kaotic Innovations directly.
What i want to know is why my name is NO LONGER on the list. When you had it up on Website it was there and now its not? Whats up I paid my deposit? Luckily I held on to the rest of the money. I mean i'm not out as much as most of the rest of you guys but still. Whats up with that?!
My deposit wasnt on there as well but I unfortunately sent that to Terry
Originally posted by svtsoboss:
WTF My Deposit isn't on the list.. and it was comfirmed by nyceboi and chris... humm 150.00 was the deposit.. it should be under the name jmbenally or jerrold Benally.. god there better be a good excuse for this.....
Jerrold - did you actually pay me? Please let me know so I can look over my records but I am only displaying payments of people who PAID ME not TERRY KNIGHT JR. If I verified an order in the past it was because Terry said he had your money - we were going based off this word but Terry never paid Chris from what I understand.
UPDATED LIST - just a small mistake on my part WORD FILE - I WILL PDF LATER IF NEEDED
This list isn't any different from the past one as far as names go - the only exception is that I took down the wrong amount paid for one person - so the totals are a little different.
There are no additional names added since this is a list of people that specifically paid me for Chris Croft/Kaotic Innovations body kits. If I didn't handle your account then the only thing I can verify is that you were on the list that Terry Knight Jr. gave me and if you're on the list you did make some kind of deposit to Terry.
Official list of GB for post98 body kit (some people who do not show here are on my list) This is just the list I was given by Terry.
MikesStripedSVT
Ricksvt
SVT ST PETE
Doug Christman
OUTLAW13MW
SVTweeter
KnuKonceptz
lsneo
Faze Away
unknown
Speed Demon
Rene Vicera Jr.
Micah Watts
Bk4293
Edward McGunn
Teddy Flynt - Matt Holbrook
Leo Swithenbank
Eugene Amar-Atsen
Conor7seven
Brian Whitton
Michael Westrate
Gregory Thumper
livinsvt
Jacob Dowdy
Lazzzy
XKontour98
Miroslaw Swietek
svtsoboss
Performance Fords
Keith Schumaker
FORDSVT44
GirlieGirlTour98
Originally posted by KevContour:
Originally posted by lsneo:
i think he was talking about them using your car.
Yep
oh yeah they decided to ignore me - I guess I should just go to small claims since they're being shady about it and I no longer feel like making a big stink from it.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
UPDATED LIST - just a small mistake on my part WORD FILE - I WILL PDF LATER IF NEEDED
This list isn't any different from the past one as far as names go - the only exception is that I took down the wrong amount paid for one person - so the totals are a little different.
There are no additional names added since this is a list of people that specifically paid me for Chris Croft/Kaotic Innovations body kits. If I didn't handle your account then the only thing I can verify is that you were on the list that Terry Knight Jr. gave me and if you're on the list you did make some kind of deposit to Terry.
Official list of GB for post98 body kit (some people who do not show here are on my list) This is just the list I was given by Terry.
MikesStripedSVT
Ricksvt
SVT ST PETE
Doug Christman
OUTLAW13MW
SVTweeter
KnuKonceptz
lsneo
Faze Away
unknown
Speed Demon
Rene Vicera Jr.
Micah Watts
Bk4293
Edward McGunn
Teddy Flynt - Matt Holbrook
Leo Swithenbank
Eugene Amar-Atsen
Conor7seven
Brian Whitton
Michael Westrate
Gregory Thumper
livinsvt
Jacob Dowdy
Lazzzy
XKontour98
Miroslaw Swietek
svtsoboss
Performance Fords
Keith Schumaker
FORDSVT44
GirlieGirlTour98
There it is.. So Terry has our Deposits or payments.. ?? and didnt give anything to you yet.. so should i get a refund from him...
I don't know what's going on there - I thought at one time Terry was refunding those of you who did not pay the full amount - I'm lost on that one since I havn't heard from Terry for the better part of a year it seems.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
I don't know what's going on there - I thought at one time Terry was refunding those of you who did not pay the full amount - I'm lost on that one since I havn't heard from Terry for the better part of a year it seems.
On 10/13/03
Originally posted by hydro:
FYI:
To all those who purchased body kits through me directly (i.e. SVT ST PETE, Ashley Hall, Rick Lemptski etc.), refunds will be promptly sent back. if you have any concerns feel free to contact me at teejay313@hotmail.com.
Has anyone talked to or received money from Terry?
Originally posted by SVT ST PETE:
Originally posted by nyceboi:
I don't know what's going on there - I thought at one time Terry was refunding those of you who did not pay the full amount - I'm lost on that one since I havn't heard from Terry for the better part of a year it seems.
On 10/13/03
Originally posted by hydro:
FYI:
To all those who purchased body kits through me directly (i.e. SVT ST PETE, Ashley Hall, Rick Lemptski etc.), refunds will be promptly sent back. if you have any concerns feel free to contact me at teejay313@hotmail.com.
Has anyone talked to or received money from Terry?
He has my deposit of $150 however I have not received ANY refund or work from him!
Originally posted by XKontour98:
Originally posted by SVT ST PETE:
Originally posted by nyceboi:
I don't know what's going on there - I thought at one time Terry was refunding those of you who did not pay the full amount - I'm lost on that one since I havn't heard from Terry for the better part of a year it seems.
On 10/13/03
Originally posted by hydro:
FYI:
To all those who purchased body kits through me directly (i.e. SVT ST PETE, Ashley Hall, Rick Lemptski etc.), refunds will be promptly sent back. if you have any concerns feel free to contact me at teejay313@hotmail.com.
Has anyone talked to or received money from Terry?
He has my deposit of $150 however I have not received ANY refund or work from him!
why doesn't everybody just file a complaint with their credit card companies.
This is Rick Lempitski....I never even saw the post stating that i was geting the mone back Terry I have called him and no answer............
I don't think it will do much good at this point. Kaotic is no longer a going concern, so how is the CC company supposed to help? Do they go after the officers of the former business?
Originally posted by LS V6:
Originally posted by XKontour98:
Originally posted by SVT ST PETE:
Originally posted by nyceboi:
I don't know what's going on there - I thought at one time Terry was refunding those of you who did not pay the full amount - I'm lost on that one since I havn't heard from Terry for the better part of a year it seems.
On 10/13/03
Originally posted by hydro:
FYI:
To all those who purchased body kits through me directly (i.e. SVT ST PETE, Ashley Hall, Rick Lemptski etc.), refunds will be promptly sent back. if you have any concerns feel free to contact me at teejay313@hotmail.com.
Has anyone talked to or received money from Terry?
He has my deposit of $150 however I have not received ANY refund or work from him!
why doesn't everybody just file a complaint with their credit card companies.
It wont help if they paid in cash, check, money order, or Paypal...
Some of us are trying to find Chris - I'm sure Andy's knows where he is, after all they are waiting for Chris to give them the list since for whatever reason they won't accept mine.
You guys have the information you need for me, Andy's accepted liability and promised to push out the kits to fulfill the group buy. Send them my list and hold them to it - they are not keeping up with their part of the bargin and using a technicality on the part that Chris Croft is MIA.
The Technicality is that they need there money. Which I am sure Chris doesn't have, hence the reason he is M.I.A.
So far Andys hasn't done anything wrong yet. Unless there hiding more stuff from us. Thats why we need Chris
But Chris "sold" the molds to Andy's Autosport. From what I understand there was no monetary exchange - what Chris asked for instead was for Andy's Autosport to take over Kaotic Innovations customers. You're right, Chris probably doesn't have the money - he's a loser (personal opinion).
Therefore I am assuming that all liability should have been transfered right? Chris was in debt to CEG, Chris had molds - Andy's took molds and removed debt from Chris.
That's why I think Andy's should be fully responsible, and I'm very upset that they have not stepped up to the plate.
I was wrong about Eric at Andy's and I'm sticking with my anti-Andy's story - they make it sound good..hmmm.... Chris did the same thing and we all got suckered by him... I say everybody watch their back. After all Chris left Andy's Autosport because he thought they were shady.... yet goes back to them... BIRD'S OF A FEATHER....
Listen.... I remained very optimistic with Chris. Now i'm very easy going and not at all a violent person and yes... I didn't think I was...but also gullable I suppose since I was suckered into this whole deal. I learned a valuable lesson when it comes to dealing with people in this kind of business. Chris has no history, Andy's has a history... a bad one.... this is marked territory and I don't want anybody to get screwed like I already did.
I say you all let know Andy's they're being watched. I'm sure they know what's up with Chris and are deferring making the kits for you guys. Look at the situation - they're basically having to make 18 or so kits for you guys at no actuall cost to them.
That's only my opinion. Eric still hasn't responded to me and they are acting like I don't exist. You guys actually have had some luck contacting them. Stick it to them.
The whole Chris "sold" them, is probaly the whole shady part of the deal. Did he tell you directly he sold them. I would assume that he would have given them to him, and in return they make the kits. I guess it doesn't realy matter any way. We here have no idea what was said and what the agreement was (I asssume you don't either, but you act like you do). This we need to find out, and why again I say we need to find Chris. Why he just left and didn't even explain is just more B.S. from him. The guys at Andys are saying they needed money. Now I don't know if the person who said that had any right to. Lets just hope there not trying to double dip.
After the whole thing Chris or was it Tony? said the Kits were going to Andy's...and that we should "bug" them remember? That's why I'm assuming - I stated no facts, i'm not "acting" like I know anything cuz I don't. But since I've heard the stories about Andy's and experienced everything that happened between Chris and I first hand... I have no other choice but to make these inferences.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
After the whole thing Chris or was it Tony? said the Kits were going to Andy's...and that we should "bug" them remember? That's why I'm assuming - I stated no facts, i'm not "acting" like I know anything cuz I don't. But since I've heard the stories about Andy's and experienced everything that happened between Chris and I first hand... I have no other choice but to make these inferences.
Thats true he did say that. So I guess it realy boils down to he list. I will see what they say when I call them again, there not making any sense either.
Sh!@t needs to start happening.....thats all I have to say about that.
I emailed Eric a few weeks back, got a response in no time. Sent him another a couple days ago, got no response....funny how that works......
Couldn't somebody from California talk to a lawyer and get a class action suit against kaotic and andy's motorsport,
why i say andy's and kaotic it's because they are both involved and they both made promises that they're not keeping.
If everybody form the GB chips in it won't be that expensive, and as far as proof niceboi say's he has all the paper work and you guys have proof in CEG ( in the group buy section) you have statements made by Andy and the kaotic guys.
I'm pretty sur you guys would win one way or the other, either you would all get your money back or get the damn kits made, if someone can sue a tobacco company and win cause he didn't know that cigarettes causes cancer, why wouldn't you guys win this case.
You guys have been way to patient with this/them, they had their chances to come up with either kits or money, everyone in theis GB gave the money when asked to, i've read every single post made, they [censored] because some people didn't pay by the deadline and now they are ALL being a*holes, not even responding to emails or phone calls, their has been way too many scam artists making GB's, if everytime ppl get ripped off by a scam i say sue them even it's a small amount instead of posting you are, i can tell you this much, as soon as one of the scam artist gets a registred letter from a lawyer that person will jump on the phone and call you and ask "why did you do this i was....get my point
just my $0.02
-Eric
I have class today but we're going to get rolling - I'm very much in this to make sure you guys are taken care of. I think I have to accept that I got screwed but I'm not going to let that happen to you guys, you all were more in the dark than me.
I'll see what I can find out Friday or Monday. For now, on everyones part - it looks like small claims is the only choice if the class action doesn't fall through.
I myself am filing a suit against Andy's for using a picture I took of my car for advertising purposes without my concent.
I'll be back on later tonight to see what's new and how we want to go about this. If I get the ball rolling I need someone who can over see everything and remain as a contact person. It's hard for me to do this with school and work - preferebly someone who knows enough about the law and is good with the public (you guys). Those not in the GB are welcome to voulenteer since I'm sure many people know what's going on.
If anybody else has another idea post it - we need to agree on one format going forward.
Originally posted by Contour-Mtl:
Couldn't somebody from California talk to a lawyer and get a class action suit against kaotic and andy's motorsport,
why i say andy's and kaotic it's because they are both involved and they both made promises that they're not keeping.
One thing to remember here... all these transactions between Chris and Andy's will have to have some documentation behind them. If there is nothing on paper showing the details behind the transaction and what responiblities the other is liable for, nothing can be done.
It might just be that Andy's has a mold for body kit that a good number of people want.
I agree though that it really has come to a point were you guys are gonna have to get some lawyers involved. Nyceboi cannot answer all these queston, nor do I believe the he would have the time to do all that research. Even then, they wont talk to him, so even if there was documentaion on the mold transaction, do you really think they would give it to him?
Reason I'm saying all this is because if only verbal statements were made between Chris and Andy's, everyone's hand are tied. You can place blame where you might think it should go, but we are probably looking at something for a new episode of Americas Most Wanted.
Like i said they did make statements here(in this thread) about having/giving the molds, if they deny the fact that they made these posts, one of the admins or Lance can get the IP's from those posts and trace those back, their are ways to find people even on the net(how do you think they find hackers and people who d/l stuff from kazaa or where ever from).
I hope i'm getting my point across, these people screwed alot of CEG members out of money not just kaotic but also andy's, cause if you pay attention to what they say and just listen to what they are saying you will find out that andy is as much involved as kaotic, there is no way somebody is going to take over something (group buy) without making any money what so ever, he knew what the deal was, he even said that these kits would be ready shortly and now he is completly ignoring everyone's emails or phone calls.
There may be some recourse from Andys even if there is not documentation of the transaction. There were posts in this thread about conversations with Andys & their verbal/posted commitment to CEG & the Group Buy. Even without a contract those documented conversations should be worth something in a deposition - perhaps enough to have Andys & Chris settle without a court appearance.
Just get rolling on the class action & perhaps nyceboi & his lawyer can work with the class action lawyers to be sure everybody is covered and all issues are addressed.
Now. Who's gonna pick up the ball?
Nirish, your lawyer will be quick to tell you that if your picture wasn't copyrighted then you have no rights to it. Andy's can claim they found it in the public domain (which he did), therefore he can use it for anything he wants.
It still sucks that he used it to advertise something he has no intention of making, or if he did make them the last people that should be getting them are new customers, those not in the group buy. Then again I don't know the agreement he made with Kaotic, and/or if he promised anything to Kaotic about taking care of the GB first.
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
Nirish, your lawyer will be quick to tell you that if your picture wasn't copyrighted then you have no rights to it. Andy's can claim they found it in the public domain (which he did), therefore he can use it for anything he wants.
It is not public domain until it is placed in the public domain. Anything you produce you own the copyright to it and can decide how others can use it. However, since he didn't register the picture with the gubment, he can't claim statutory damages, only actual.
http://www.patents.com/weblaw.sht
http://fairuse.stanford.edu/
Just because it's on the web doesn't mean it is free to take and do with as you please.
my main effort is for the greater CEG - I already know they do shady business and will ass crack some story so whatever about the picture. I'll bring it up on some counsel but there's some bigger wrong going on between Andy's/Kaotic...all kinds of wrong.
I saw everybody first register a complaint with the BBB on them. Remember what one member pointed out - they've had one complaint a month for the past 3 years (36 total, and only 1 resolved).
Anybody that has emails from them please post it so atleast we have more than one record of it - I know they said they were going to fulfill this GB - and they better do it.
I heard back from Eric, they are waiting on Chris.....Chris's wife had surgery the last week of Jan and I do not think anyone heard from him since.
I played dumb and emailed them... Wonder how they got "pictures" of the front but not the back
Re: 98-Up Ford Contour C-27 Kit
From:
"Andy's Auto Sport" <info@andysautosport.com>
To:
"Perry" <perryw@xxxx>
Date:
Today 11:34:10 pm
Yes, it is available for immediate shipping. Unfortunately, due to the fact that the body kit is brand new, no pictures of the rear are yet available. Also there are no definitive plans yet to manufacture the hood you're referring to. Let us know if you have any other questions. We're happy to help.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Perry" <perryw@xxxxxx>
To: <info@andysautosport.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:36 PM
Subject: 98-Up Ford Contour C-27 Kit
> RE:
http://www.andysautosport.com/Bodykits/ford_98contourkits.html
>
> Hello, Is the "98-Up Ford Contour C-27 Kit" available for immediate shipping,
> or is there some lead time required? Do you have a picture of the rear
> bumper? I notice you have one of the "Erebuni Kit 322" but not of the "98-Up
> Ford Contour C-27 Kit". What about the hood pictured in the C-27 Kit
> pictured, will I be able to get that in the future?
I just recieved this email from Eric today, maybe just maybe there is something on the works. If a lawyer is contacted and a letter warning of impending litigation is sent then they might get on the ball abit. My beef is still with Croft, and I am still tracking him down. Does anybody know his wife's name?
Michael, thanks for the email. Chris has provided us with the molds, but the contract for our purchase of them has not been finalized. We have not received any funds, and have not yet been provided any information regarding specific people who need to have orders fulfilled. That being said, one of the terms of the contract was that the existing customers have their orders fulfilled. Being that the contract is not finalized (and that we don't have a list of people to send to!), we are not in a position yet to fulfill these orders.
I would urge you to stay in contact at your convenience. We look forward to ensuring that all customers of
Chris' company get what they paid for.
Thanks,
Eric Ferguson
Andy's Auto Sport
1-800-419-1152 x106
ericferguson@sbcglobal.net
Originally posted by KnuKonceptz:
I heard back from Eric, they are waiting on Chris.....Chris's wife had surgery the last week of Jan and I do not think anyone heard from him since.
Can we get the business address/phone number/email address of Andy's posted so WE can ALL continue to harass them into giving us our kits or at least the info they have on chris/kaotic so we can get this thing moving again! I vow to be a permanent thorn in the side of these places until I see some results!
(I feel like I have a permanent trout mark on my face after partaking in all these unending GB's !)
Guys, Andy's is stuck in the middle, lets not piss them off. They are not at fault, this is a business deal and they have no need to stick their necks out for Chris's sh!tpie. WHen they get all the info and their contract finalized I am sure we will get our kits. The problem is still with Chris.
Originally posted by KnuKonceptz:
Guys, Andy's is stuck in the middle, lets not piss them off. They are not at fault, this is a business deal and they have no need to stick their necks out for Chris's sh!tpie. WHen they get all the info and their contract finalized I am sure we will get our kits. The problem is still with Chris.
Yes listen to him. PLEASE do not piss them off to. Its not there fault
Originally posted by KnuKonceptz:
Guys, Andy's is stuck in the middle, lets not piss them off. They are not at fault, this is a business deal and they have no need to stick their necks out for Chris's sh!tpie. WHen they get all the info and their contract finalized I am sure we will get our kits. The problem is still with Chris.
Well said. I haven't posted once about this whole situation because I'm not involved in it, but I have to get this off my chest. First off, My family owns their own business and I was fortunate enough to start working there at a very young age and learn a trade hands on "even though I'm not getting involved in the business" it was still a great experience. The #1!!!!!!!!!!!! thing I learned is to make sure your customer is happy no matter what. Regardless of what the customer says or how they act, you make sure they are pleased. Two perfect examples I can think of off the top of my head are KnuKonceptz who I've ordered from a couple of times and Dean. Both of these guys understand what running a business is all about and for that reason alone they will be successful in their business ventures. From the very beginning of this whole ordeal with Kaotic I read nothing but posts about how you were being neglected as customers and I knew right then there was a big problem. I wanted to post six months ago to say that everyone should try to get their money back right away. However, I didn't feel like hearing all the flamers say mind your own business but oh well I'm speaking up now because this whole situation disturbs me. As it stands now This new company has the mold, "they don't have a great track record either" but your problem isn't with them. Don't all of you see by now that all Kaotic did was give them the molds and skip town. Your money is gone with this guy Chris wherever he went and I don't think he has any intention on ever paying the money to Andy's or giving them the list. Everyone keeps talking about lawyers, well what the hell are you waiting for, call one because that's that is the only step that should be taken at this point. I feel aweful for all you involved because I'm sure most of you are hard working and I know some of you are young and don't have a whole lot of cash to being throwing around, so when something like this happens it really fuggin sucks. It's a shatty feeling when you work so hard for something and it' just taken from you, "I know the feeling" my wheels were stolen a couple of months back if you remember. Sorry for the long rant but I just wanted to tell you my standpoint "from someone who helps run a business". I'm not sure how this can be resolved as I'm not an attorney but I know the first step should be to contact one immediately and have them try to track down this Chris guy. On a side not, I wouldn't keep harrasing Andy's because It's highly unlikely that they have the money or the list nor will they ever get it.
So how are we gonna find Chris cuz my car broke down and I need 600 bucks to get it fixed. So I need my money back. I'll be calling a lawyer tomorrow
-Zack
Originally posted by Lazzzy:
So how are we gonna find Chris cuz my car broke down and I need 600 bucks to get it fixed. So I need my money back. I'll be calling a lawyer tomorrow
-Zack
I can guarantee you will get a kit sooner then you will see your cash back. Not that the kit will arrive soon or anything.......
i agree with knu, dont [censored] on andys just yet... the andys thing is new development let it pan out a bit, especially if they're getting back to you.
slowly.
but they are...
I talked to my lawyer today, I'm bringing him the documents tomorrow...I gotta get my kit or my money...I can't wait another year.
Originally posted by Lazzzy:
I talked to my lawyer today, I'm bringing him the documents tomorrow...I gotta get my kit or my money...I can't wait another year.
Sweet! Go for it! Keep us updated!
Since I can't act as any kind of liaison (since Andy's seems to ignore me) someone should get a status report next week.
Also - for those who need it for their own reference or any kind of small claims you may be persuing, I have a notorized affidavit basically stating my role in this whole mess and that I have fulfilled my part to you guys and was acting in good faith throughout this mess. I know nobody is holding me accountable but for legal purposes it was done and is available to those who would like a copy - just PM with a fax number or I can email you a PDF version for your records.
ok the one thing i am wondering about is the hood i purchased.
since no one is making that how do i get my money.
andy's has to know how to contact Chris - the only way if Chris doesn't come clean is to have him investigated then prosecuted. Waiting to see what Andy's since we don't know what Chris and Andy's agreed to.
All - How many would be willing to pay a fee to have a PI locate our man? Without going into specifics I have detailed personal information on both Chris, Tony and Family. To go any further will require about $300 total for further info. This info will be turned over to the proper authorities once the lawyer reads it over.
Chris I hope you are reading this. Give Andy's the list or sh!t will hit the fan. I am giving you till the 15th of March to wrap up Andy's contract. And Tony if you read this, please pass the message to Chris
I give you Exhibit A......Tony's car and plate number...
Just a warning to people that plan on screwing others, do not post personal info in the web, it may bite you in the butt.
i got on probetalk.com and messaged both chris and tony and tony sent me a pm saying that i would have to deal with chris. I tried sending him a reply but i am not allowed anyomore and i am also not allowed to post on the boards. Tony is an admin on that board so he took my rights.
Just wanted to keep the list of those paid on top:
www.kaoticinnovations.com/payments.doc
This will aid in finding those as$ho!es and holding them accountable. Also since we know their active....or atleast Tony that means they obviously have time to finish the deal.
Since this is the land of free speech and opinion, please cast your vote if you would like to more information on the life of Kaotic Innovations to be made public
I am most particularly interested in the AFTER-life of Kaotic & its main characters. Crooks like them always seem to make a bee-line for Florida when the Sh!t hits the fan.
So i'm guessing SUPER TUESDAY we'll know the results?
Gotta love democracy!
On the payment list it says i paid 200 and 300. But I actually paid the 150 deposit and then last summer i paid the other 500 so now all i owe is shipping. Just wanted to let ya know so yall could fix that on the list
Originally posted by GirlieGirlTour98:
On the payment list it says i paid 200 and 300. But I actually paid the 150 deposit and then last summer i paid the other 500 so now all i owe is shipping. Just wanted to let ya know so yall could fix that on the list
That list represents those who paid me - the $150 you're talking about was paid to Terry Knight Jr. which was due to Chris for initial design of the kit
Don't worry - when all the wrong is done right i'm sure everyone will be taken care of.
Exhibit B
Known home addresses; current to earliest, not all listed, these guys each have 5 other known addresses. Some may have been used just for billing purposes (cell phone or CC etc)
ANTHONY J NOVELLO
1275 BELBROOK PL
MILPITAS CA 95035-3116
PH: (408) 263-6778(Chris is linked to this address/Phone# as well)
2584 GREENWOOD LN APT 22
CAMERON PARK CA 95682-7714
113 MOUNDHAVEN CT
SAN JOSE CA 95111-3721
CHRISTOPHER CROFT
24545 ONEIL AVE APT 206
HAYWARD CA 94544-1601
4641 WESTPORT DR
MECHANICSBURG PA 17055-4843
1666 S MAIN ST
MILPITAS CA 95035-6267
I just hope one of these guys gets a hold of Andy's with the list before something more personal gets revealed..........
I'll await the poll closing at 7pm PST....
Hey knu, i wanna see these guys go down just as much as the rest of CEG; but can you get in trouble for posting info like this? It would really suck if one of you guys gets into sh!t needlessly. I dunno, maybe its not the wisest thing to release more info yet....maybe unlees an actual case has been legally set up or whatever.
Originally posted by nyceboi:
Originally posted by GirlieGirlTour98:
On the payment list it says i paid 200 and 300. But I actually paid the 150 deposit and then last summer i paid the other 500 so now all i owe is shipping. Just wanted to let ya know so yall could fix that on the list
That list represents those who paid me - the $150 you're talking about was paid to Terry Knight Jr. which was due to Chris for initial design of the kit
Don't worry - when all the wrong is done right i'm sure everyone will be taken care of.
For those of use who paid Terry, we should be taking legal action against him or no?
Originally posted by hydro:
FYI:
To all those who purchased body kits through me directly (i.e. SVT ST PETE, Ashley Hall, Rick Lemptski etc.), refunds will be promptly sent back. if you have any concerns feel free to contact me at teejay313@hotmail.com.
Another phone call to him today. He found out it was me and refused to take my call (again) and got sent to his voicemail (again). I left a message (again). I recommend all that paid Terry directly call him and keep harassing him until someone actually talks to him. PM me for his office phone#.
Let the info begin already!
I called Andy's today and they said thier sending out body kits this friday or today for 25????? "for a group buy"
reason being i had 150, that i got stiffed on for the deposit. So i went through andys, and purchased my own. Made sure i left a good paper trail too.. so i am not worried dealing with andy's. They say their sending it monday.
Anyway i dont know if Info was given to them or what about the group buy.. I totally gave up on these theives who took our
money (Terry&Chris).... I doubt that the people who payed Terry are even going to get it back. Because Nyceboi has nothing to do with that payment. I paid Terry and havent heard anything.. so now finally said it...
Well guys:
This is just an update on my car and the progress for those interested - nothing about the pending case. There is one important thing I need you guys to read atleast about how the kit was designed. Go the BOLD section.
My car is near the finishing stages. Honestly Chris did a really sh!tty job on the body work and there was tape under the areas where he primered or did fiberglass and bondo work! The body lines were wavy and a lot of attention was NOT paid to detail. He used really crappy primer and didn't prep the car good for paint. The doors were not straight and quarter panels were molded wrong and uneven.
Whew...i'm glad it left that shop for those reasons alone. I can't believe Chris' dumba$$ thought he could finish my car in just 4 days from the day I discovered he was lying to me. What a loser.
The new shop gets all the credit - the remolded pretty much everything and fixed all the cracks and wavy lines in the body. Evened out the widebody and body panels. The fixed all the overspray (there was a lot of it). Unfortunatley it's costing me a$$ loads but it's worth it - the car looks beautiful. I really thought Chris did good work - I honestly did - but after seeing what the body work looks like now - Chris did a really bad job.
PROBLEM! The back bumper has a crucial flaw. It's not a real bumper - just a bumper cover. The difference? Our cars are made with the bumper support as part of the bumper cover itself. For anybody who has taken off their rear bumper you know what i'm talking about. That bar that runs along the inside back of the stock bumper is our bumper which is bolted to the frame when the bumper is attatced.
Most cars have this seperate. The bumpers for our car were not designed with this in mind - instead what Chris did was make up a bracket - a poorly designed one at that - to hold the back bumper in place. If SVT ST PETE could take some pix of the rear I think it would help (sorry for calling you out but I don't have pix of that bumper). So basically you have no support in the rear. There are no install brackets either - you basically have to drill into your body.
How my shop fixed it - I had to buy another back bumper and they remolded the aftermarket rear to the stock rear to work with it. I don't think Andy's has addressed this - if they did the cost of the rear bumper should be higher. I wasn't really aware of it initially since I didn't know a lot about this kind of stuff and basically took Chris' word that it was okay - I'm not the biggest car guy. My shop did not want my car leaving that shop unless the bumper was in fact a real bumper.
I hope I explained that correctly - basically there is no support under the bumper - nothing to absorb impact in the way an actual bumper would.
I have been talking with Eric about our situation and he does acknowledge that kits are owed. So it comes down to Chris getting a list to him. I have forwarded him as much info as I had available. If anyone receives anything from Andy's please post it here. If nothing happens, more exhibits are ready for viewing.......
So who am I supposed to be getting my refund for my deposit from? Andy or Chris?
Originally posted by nyceboi:
The bumpers for our car were not designed with this in mind - instead what Chris did was make up a bracket - a poorly designed one at that - to hold the back bumper in place. If SVT ST PETE could take some pix of the rear I think it would help (sorry for calling you out but I don't have pix of that bumper). So basically you have no support in the rear. There are no install brackets either - you basically have to drill into your body.
I wish I could help, but I have sold the rear and sides of the KI kit.
Echoing Kremit's post, who do we collect money from - Andy or Chris?
Thr group of us has to figure out what we are going to do about this situation. It seems as if those who want their money back have not made any progress in taking some kind of action to get refunds.
Also, a couple CEGers have called Terry Knight, Jr. and he refuses to take their calls, too.
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
So who am I supposed to be getting my refund for my deposit from? Andy or Chris?
Andy's has nothing to do with a refund. I do not know the details of the agreement between Chris (KI) and Andy's, but it appears that Andy's "purchased" the mold by fulfilling our outstanding orders. So Andy's will not nor should they refund us any money.
If you expect a refund for the hood or anything else you will have to deal direct to Chris or Terry.
I will have some more info for you guys tomorrow, got a few calls to make
Not to [censored] at you guys what what have you done other than other than post here to find this Chris guy ?
- Have any of you called a lawyer ?
- If any of you have called a lawyer, is he only representing you ?
- It might be more of an 'attractive' case for a lawyer if he can represent all of you that are affected by this issue.
- All of you, please organize all your paperwork and correspondence regarding this matter. You will need it when you go to the lawyer.
Good luck. I feel for you that are out of $
Hey,
Nyceboi can you do me a big favior. I paid for the body kit too, it was paid in full. I know that you never receved the money from me but I payed Terry. He had to give it to someone because it was on the web site as paid, and all you needed was the shiping, and that is what I sent you. I am asking is there any way you can get me some sort of doc. saying that the kit ws paid for. I dont have the web site page that stated I paid for it any more. I would like to print this for my lawyer. thanks so much
Richard Lempitski
Richard:
What I have is this -
http://www.kaoticinnovations.com/payments.doc
I also just uploaded the OLD LIST!
http://www.kaoticinnovations.com/c27.htm
This is the list that was up originally - IT IS NOT UPDATED WITH NEWER INFORMATION - IT IS WHAT YOU ALL SAW THE LAST TIME IT WAS UP. NONE OF THE LITERATURE WILL CHANGE FOR LEGAL PURPOSES.
This will aid those of us seeking refunds from Terry as well. Do not message me or say that you are not on the HTML list - like I said it is the original list which has not been updated.
My doc list shows payments made to me for the kit which i payed to chris - the html list shows general payments from Terry as well.
thank you that is just what i need for my lawyer to make a case
Alright back to the show:
ELX0918
GGC52
Chris / Tony
The police will find you......
I'll take the bike for payment of my money/kit!
I'm not sure posting all this personal info is going to be beneficial if the case is ever litigated. It'll hurt those on CEG seeking reimbursement.
I am sending a message, those on CEG can do as they will with the above information. Lawyer and Police have been notified, the next steps are slowing evolving. This is just the tip of the iceberg as far as I am concerned. This info listed is nothing compared to the rest I have in my possesion..............
Right now $12,914.98 is unaccounted for as far as I am concerned, how much of that is yours............
btw, CEG voted, its back on page 32 IIRC
I dont think there will be any legal trouble with posting the info. I saw a clip on the news about a guy posting info on undercover cops and where they lived and detailed info about their families and there is nothing they can do about it. So I wouldnt be afraid to post info on these two criminals if people can legally post info about undercover cops. I think I also saw it on a clip from TecTV today. Check their website if you want more info.
nice knu...whered you get the pics from....if i may ask?
The license plate fairy.....
okay, I accepted the fact that I'm never getting my kit a long time ago...but we all are gonna hafta start busting our asses and doing our part so we can at least get some money back. I can't afford to have this $800 out of my possession any longer. We all need to talk to our lawyers and track this guy down. Its been months since we've all started "legal action" and we haven't seen any sign of this [censored] being cleared up. I admit that I have been lazy and haven't done my part either. But we all need to take initiative and get our hard earned money back. Also, update everyone else in the group on your progress, we definitely gotta work together on this...
Well here is where we are at - Andy's acknowledges the fact they have taken over the GB and they in fact are going to make our kit for us. BUT they need a list from Chris, who probably doesnt have a list anyway and will wind up giving Andy's the same exact list that Nirish has sworn to be accurate. This list of Nirish's is good enough in a court of law, but not for Andy's Autosport, I guess they feel laws do not apply to them or this topic.
I have been in contact with a lawyer and things are progressing slowly I have to complete a summary of this situation with all the people involved (mainly Chris, Tony, Nirish and now Andy's) Once completed those involved will be receiving letters, finally if nothing comes of that, we will be transfered to a partnering law firm in CA where suit will be filed. This is long from over legally.
I commend you for your actions, and I am sure everyone on here is greatly appreceitive(sp) of your hard work. If all Chris has to do is give a list or get sued, it seems simple to me. Than again we are dealing with the challenged
KnuKonceptz, I commend you on your lead in this matter. I'm not part of this group buy fiasco, but I would like to know if there are any legal expenses that will be incurred that you may need some reimbursement for. I'll help out where I can.
Even if there are no expenses at this point, keep track of your costs so whatever happens, your fellow CEGers could perhaps help out - if needed.
If this all goes to court, it is likely that somebody else will foot the bill, but until then you're on the hook for the legal fees. Anybody who gets the benefit of your action should be willing to help out.
I for one am willing to help out where ever I can!
Thanks for the support guys, so far there hasn't been any real expenses. That however will be changing in the near future and will need the 18 people that are listed in Nirish's statement to PM me on how far they are willing to go on this. Basically what is worth to us to sue Chris?
Anyone know how i can get a hold of Terry.. yeah right.. Also i purchased my body kit directly from andy's autosport and is finally being delivered 3/19/2004. I am tracking every mile...
as for my money Terry has..
I have no idea how to get a hold of him. Or what steps to take.
Originally posted by svtsoboss:
Anyone know how i can get a hold of Terry.. yeah right.. Also i purchased my body kit directly from andy's autosport and is finally being delivered 3/19/2004. I am tracking every mile... as for my money Terry has.. I have no idea how to get a hold of him. Or what steps to take.
What did they charge you for the whole kit? What about shipping? I am fortunately only out the deposit, so i'm thinking about just buying the front from Andys. Make sure you keep us updated on this, and if you could post pics when you receive your kit that would be helpful.
I only have $75 into this, so I'm not willing to put more than that in. Also, I would only be willing to put some in if I was gauranteed some back, which I believe is impossible. Though I will do any non-financial support I can offer, just PM me if you think there is anything I can do. Also if I was to get $75 back, I'd reimburse $25-$50 of it to whoever gets this done.
If I had $75 into the body kit, I would walk, no, run away...hopefully we can do something for your situation as well, but I do not think Andy's will be making a hood.
Originally posted by EuroTour99:
Originally posted by svtsoboss:
Anyone know how i can get a hold of Terry.. yeah right.. Also i purchased my body kit directly from andy's autosport and is finally being delivered 3/19/2004. I am tracking every mile... as for my money Terry has.. I have no idea how to get a hold of him. Or what steps to take.
What did they charge you for the whole kit? What about shipping? I am fortunately only out the deposit, so i'm thinking about just buying the front from Andys. Make sure you keep us updated on this, and if you could post pics when you receive your kit that would be helpful.
Its Friday 3/19/2004 and my shipment is in. Well at the shipping dock so I'll pick it up after work. Pictures will be posted.
The price was 799 flat. The shipping was free well for me, that day. I just happen i orderd the kit when they had a free shipping week. But i would imagine shipping would of have been like 200-150 some where around there..
Knu, I'll contribute towards the fees of getting this settled.
how come andy's site only lists 98+ contours...i would like to order the front directly from him, but if he is only offering 98+, i am SOL
~Andrew
Originally posted by onosway:
PROBLEM! The back bumper has a crucial flaw. It's not a real bumper - just a bumper cover. The difference? Our cars are made with the bumper support as part of the bumper cover itself. For anybody who has taken off their rear bumper you know what i'm talking about. That bar that runs along the inside back of the stock bumper is our bumper which is bolted to the frame when the bumper is attatced.
Most cars have this seperate. The bumpers for our car were not designed with this in mind - instead what Chris did was make up a bracket - a poorly designed one at that - to hold the back bumper in place. If SVT ST PETE could take some pix of the rear I think it would help (sorry for calling you out but I don't have pix of that bumper). So basically you have no support in the rear. There are no install brackets either - you basically have to drill into your body.
How my shop fixed it - I had to buy another back bumper and they remolded the aftermarket rear to the stock rear to work with it. I don't think Andy's has addressed this - if they did the cost of the rear bumper should be higher. I wasn't really aware of it initially since I didn't know a lot about this kind of stuff and basically took Chris' word that it was okay - I'm not the biggest car guy. My shop did not want my car leaving that shop unless the bumper was in fact a real bumper.
I hope I explained that correctly - basically there is no support under the bumper - nothing to absorb impact in the way an actual bumper would.
This is the problem I have Andy isn't aware of this problem. so they need some pictures of the bracket/inside bumper and the screws that keep the top corners of the bumper. I sold my SVT rear bumper and dont have a picture of it to send them. also the two top screws that hold up the bumper. There is no way else to mount this bumper.. If any one can help send to my email address jaybenally@srmaterials.com thanks... I'll post the pictures of the kit late today or early tommorrow.. thanks again. hope i made sense iam at work and typing fast...
Here I snapped a few quick pics of my extra bumper, that should help.
those bastards...
however my shop fixed the problem
but i'm saying 'F' Andy's and that a$$ Eric over there. (yeah...i'm bitter)
Originally posted by svtsoboss:
The side skirts are made like crap.. dont buy this kit.. front bumper and rear are great if they could find a way to mount the rear bumper.. The side skirts are junk....
How did you find out?
He bought the kit from Andy's...
As I figured - the only thing that would mount properly was the front bumper. I doubt Andy's has a Contour to test fit on. Plus that rear, as I've said before has no BUMPER REINFORCEMENT! So bascially your butt is not protected - dangerous...very dangerous in a rear collision.
The side skirts were designed wrong - The only way to make it work is to mold it to the car. I thought that they would of changed that but if they're going with the design that's on my car there is no way around it. If you don't mold it you'll have these really ugly bolts in your door jam.
FU** CHRIS CROFT yet again. (yes i'm still angry)
Goddm@n it I want my money now! forget the kit! this is a bunch of crap!
i really need to know how i can get my money back for my hood.
i still am willing to wait to see the out come of the kit but i need my hood money, for the home i am buying.
Has anybody outside of the GB straight up purchased this from Andys? What is their lead time for shipping? Hows the quality? Any other word on whats going with the "contract"? No new info on Chris?
has any one heard any news.....
I bought the kit out side the gb.. And straight up from Andys. The guys were great. No delays honest people. I got a tracking number as soon as i placed the order.. but i have a deposit that i got jacked on.. Through the group buy
The front bumper.. wow that is done very well i love it..
The side skirts.. no likey why you have to drill in to the bottom of the doors
The Rear bumper... wow that also looks great... i love it
but no brackets to mount with a little time. mount would be no problem.
Over all I'll make a bracket for the rear and i have the front mounted...
and damn she looks sexi...
The rear I'll trade some one for the stock CSVT... If not I'll Work with it...
Sides.. I'll mold it on if i have to.. but would rather not..
I am just interested in the fit and finish of the front bumper. Could you post some pics?
just to put some of you at ease... there are people working on this situation for us but as you can imagine it's hard to fight this battle with a rat in hiding.
Originally posted by onosway:
just to put some of you at ease... there are people working on this situation for us but as you can imagine it's hard to fight this battle with a rat in hiding.
Thanks for the update Nirish! I was kinda getting anxious since we havent heard any news one way or another. I am very willing to help out as much as I can. I am a broks a$$ college student but I could scrape up some money to put toward expenses. Let us know if ther is anything we can do to help! Thanks again!
I have had the kit now for about three weeks. out of group buy. I was in the group buy. It is now just getting prep for paint, I talk to my body man and he thinks that this is the worse kit he has every sean.
front bumper have folds in and it is three seperate molds stuck together, 4 hours of sanding and getting all pissed off it looks good. not on car yet so don't no. well keep you updated.
Rear bumper looks great, again brakets being made to fit also not on car yet.
Side skirts
S@#T I was thinking about just burning them but he said that he would do his best to make them work, Air bubbles every where.
I am going over to see him later today see how he is doing, hope okay. I will let you guys know, but I would also like to say all the trouble that evryone is going through, it is not worth it. I know its $600-700 bucks. if we all get our money back then great, getting the kit DONT DO IT...
Originally posted by STU:
I will let you guys know, but I would also like to say all the trouble that evryone is going through, it is not worth it. I know its $600-700 bucks. if we all get our money back then great, getting the kit DONT DO IT...
I dont want the kit anymore. I just want the $$. Fu{k the Kit I already bought an SVT one anyway.
I want the kit i paid for not hopes and dreames
I just want my deposit back.
I just want my deposit back.
Originally posted by STU:
I have had the kit now for about three weeks. out of group buy. I was in the group buy. It is now just getting prep for paint, I talk to my body man and he thinks that this is the worse kit he has every sean.
front bumper have folds in and it is three seperate molds stuck together, 4 hours of sanding and getting all pissed off it looks good. not on car yet so don't no. well keep you updated.
Rear bumper looks great, again brakets being made to fit also not on car yet.
Side skirts S@#T I was thinking about just burning them but he said that he would do his best to make them work, Air bubbles every where.
I am going over to see him later today see how he is doing, hope okay. I will let you guys know, but I would also like to say all the trouble that evryone is going through, it is not worth it. I know its $600-700 bucks. if we all get our money back then great, getting the kit DONT DO IT...
just to make a point, since yall apparently became professional body work people over night.
look at your front bumper
tell me how you'd make a 2 piece mold pull apart with those vents in there. it wouldnt work moron, thats why its 3 pieces put together, lots of kits are made like that.
not standing up for these guys but this idiotic banter bothers me.
so it looks like we all gave up after years of waiting and throwing our money away. I just wish i was a rich kid. Sue the sh*t out of this a** hole and get my money back. well we helped some one make very easy money..........
Originally posted by Ricksvt:
so it looks like we all gave up after years of waiting and throwing our money away. I just wish i was a rich kid. Sue the sh*t out of this a** hole and get my money back. well we helped some one make very easy money..........
This should not be over. Not if you have a lawyer that is worth a chiz.
When Chris sold the molds to Andys, I read of an agreement of some sort to take care of you guys & get your kits built. Andys is supposedly waiting for a list, but barring getting one from Chris, there should be evidence-a-plenty in these boards/posts & receipts to establish who paid for what, and what parts and/or funds are owed to whom.
Andys is on the line at this point. Based on their posts, they knew of these costs when making the deal, so before accepting the molds they should have gotten the list to give them some ballpark of what their liabilities were. Put together your own lists and go after them because the liabilities came with the molds - Period.
NO MERCY.
I have not given up, but I have not had much time to work on this whole fiasco. people are still working, its just a slow process and currently not my top priority. He'll rear his ugly mug some where. Maybe I should cut/paste all his info for the hell of it..................
Originally posted by KnuKonceptz:
Maybe I should cut/paste all his info for the hell of it..................
I say go for it! If there is anyway I could ever be a thorn in his A$$ you better believe I would! I am so frustrated and there is not much I can do.
DO IT DO IT!!
hey guys - there's a new member to CEG WHO WORKS FOR ANDY'S - screen name is HOWIE and he posts in the CALIFORNIA FORUM.
I've said my piece but I think we should all chime in there!! GO TO CALI ROOM and look for HOWIE. His real name is MATT, I think i've met him @ Kaotic in the past.
Hey i think you should leave him personally alone....Me, mike Carlos and a few other locals meet him sunday night...I did ask him about it.
He wasn't shy or beat around the bush...the Kaotic issue had nothing to do with him, all he knows is that Chris from kaotic was suppost to mail/fax a list of people in the GB that are getting kits...he said he hasn;t heard anyhting since the inital comversation since then.
I talked a little more indepth with him, and theres nothing he can do...he did not make/sign the agreement, so im not sure how he has anyhting to do with it.
until he gives me some sort of reason to think that hes directly involved, i see no reason to hassle him...maybe he can forward some messages to his boss or somehting, that is a possability.
Lupe
Originally posted by Roz 1999 SVT-C:
until he gives me some sort of reason to think that hes directly involved, i see no reason to hassle him...maybe he can forward some messages to his boss or somehting, that is a possability.
He's advertising his company in his signature, he can take any comments that come with said advertisment. If he doesn't want to be hassled about his affiliation with the company, then he shouldn't mention that he works for em.
His signature says he is the "Head Designer," I don't believe that he has zero pull within the company. Maybe he's the connection that all the people that have been robbed by Kaotic need.
Originally posted by perry:
Originally posted by Roz 1999 SVT-C:
until he gives me some sort of reason to think that hes directly involved, i see no reason to hassle him...maybe he can forward some messages to his boss or somehting, that is a possability.
He's advertising his company in his signature, he can take any comments that come with said advertisment. If he doesn't want to be hassled about his affiliation with the company, then he shouldn't mention that he works for em.
His signature says he is the "Head Designer," I don't believe that he has zero pull within the company. Maybe he's the connection that all the people that have been robbed by Kaotic need.
That does make a good point, but i was reading the Post that Nirish (nyceboi) posted in CA forums....and he wasnt very nice (not mean, but you can sense the hostility in the post) i just don;t want the Hostility part, to come off wrong...then you could push away your guys chance....I should have re-worded my post and said "not to come off hostile twards him."
I want to say this, i do not support Andy's ( cannot make any judgements of Andy's as i do not know them or have delt with them) taking over the kit and I personaly do not like Kaotic at all (i hate what they did..but again i wasn;t around to see first hand there practices) but all i ask is that people talk to Matt in a respectful way. I have had the pleasure of meeting him and He came off as a Good guy with good intentions.
But I do agree with you Perry this is a chance to get a foot in the door...seeing that chance (if you go to the Ca forum) since i live 20 minutes away form Andy's, i am willing to site down with the owner to do what i can...I want to go in there prepaired, so i need a list of all who paied in full, and partial.
And any proof they have showing payment (thoes who paied Kaotic directly should be easier tog et proof).
I can try and get a foot in the door for you guys, Its the least i cna do since im local...and the fact i respect my fellow CEGer's.
Please let me know what i can do.
Lupe
just an idea. Does any one mabe want to pool some money together and we ...if we can get a lawyer to help all of us ...guys im sorry just hoping that we can do some thing. I am so poor right now if i had half the money i had when this gruop buy started this people would be screwed im callindg a local news station and see if they can put these guys on blast.....
Originally posted by Ricksvt:
just an idea. ... im callindg a local news station and see if they can put these guys on blast.....
I keep saying the media is one good way to get things done. If somebody could contact the news media about this whole issue, and ask them to take it up with Andys, I'm sure it would finally get resolved.
Andy's was aware of the obligations in the GB when they accepted the molds, they just never got the list (supposedly). You guys have collected enough evidence to present a case for getting your parts and/or money. The list & copies of the receipts should be forwarded to one guy & let it rip!
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Ricksvt:
just an idea. ... im callindg a local news station and see if they can put these guys on blast.....
I keep saying the media is one good way to get things done. If somebody could contact the news media about this whole issue, and ask them to take it up with Andys, I'm sure it would finally get resolved.
Andy's was aware of the obligations in the GB when they accepted the molds, they just never got the list (supposedly). You guys have collected enough evidence to present a case for getting your parts and/or money. The list & copies of the receipts should be forwarded to one guy & let it rip!
I work for a pretty big newspaper and have lots of background search resources I can use. If you guys want me to dig up some more info on these guys, just give me their full names. I can find crime records, SSN's, and anywhere they have lived recently. Hell, I can even find out if they're registered to vote.
Honestly, it will be difficult to get much media attention to a case like this because sad to say, this sort of sh*t happens all the time. Maybe bring it up with a local newspaper or publications that relate to cars.
Seriously, you guys need a lawyer to handle this.
IIRC, you only need 15 participants for a class action lawsuit...
lets do all we can together, we all got our self in. lets get what we paid for or money
Guys, gather that info. Make your list. Copy those receipts. Save a few bucks & take the evidence to the press first - will cost you nothing to try it that way first. Nothing like a camera & microphone in the face to encourage a business to do the right thing.
Hell, if they're smart they'll play it for the positive PR value and be upbeat about the whole thing!!
If they refuse, then it will be time get a hired gun and have him sort it all out.
You guys see what Andy's has done with the C-27 now?
Link to taurus pics. Pricing. I found out from another site i frequent. So, looks like they're making even more money from this kit, yet a lot of our own guys still don't have what they paid for.
Originally posted by amarv12:
You guys see what Andy's has done with the C-27 now?
Link to taurus pics.
Pricing.
I found out from another site i frequent.
So, looks like they're making even more money from this kit, yet a lot of our own guys still don't have what they paid for.
F^CKING BASSTARDS! WHEN I GET SOME MORE TIME I AM GONNA TRY AND LOG INTO THAT SITE AND BASH ANDY'S before they start buying the kits! AHHHHHHHHHH
I've advised you guys on what you can do to get Andys to pony up. If you just follow through I'm sure you'd get some results.
Whatever. I'm done with this thread.
maybe someone should advise the taurus owners how bad the quality of the kit sucks.
I'm guessing if anyone is dumb enough to put that kit on their Taurus then they won't heed someone's advice about the lack of quality.
Originally posted by amarv12:
You guys see what Andy's has done with the C-27 now?
Link to taurus pics.
Pricing.
I found out from another site i frequent.
So, looks like they're making even more money from this kit, yet a lot of our own guys still don't have what they paid for.
woooooooooooooowwwwwwwww, that kit looks soooooooooo much better than the one for the Contour. You guys should get Andys to redesign that ugly kit like they did for the Taurus.
Ok Nirish, i do not know where you are, but the offer still stands if you want my uncles Legal advice....but i need to know really soon or hes taking a case against 2 major MFG's.
I let you know about this before, but i ahve yet to hear from you.....please let me know.
Lupe
u have to email nirish, he gets on here like once a week.
Originally posted by lsneo:
u have to email nirish, he gets on here like once a week.
k...thanks for the heads up...ill e-mail him when i get off work.
Lupe
Hi there, I don't post here to often but, in regards to the kit for the taurus, We found out that they were making a kit for the Gen 4 Taurus, turns out they did their combat kit, we then got them to make a kit for the Gen 3 Taurus, We wanted them to make a kit that looked like the Taurus RAGE concept, wich ironically enough is incredibally simular in appearance to the C-27 kit that they "in theory" have for the contour. So they ported it over to the Taurus. I must be one of thouse dumb people who is going to put a kit on a taurus because, I orderd the kit. I may not have if I had seen this topic before, but oh well too late. I will just have to wait and see if they come through or not. I will let you all know if I recive my kit when Im supposed to and if the quality is good or bad. Sorry to hear about the mess your all in. Hope this dosn't happen to me as well, other wise I might just have to join in with all of you.
~Deltar
You should be fine. The whole deal in this thread was a change of ownership of the molds. The previous owner took money from CEGers & others for advance orders, then never delivered any kits. The new owners bought the molds, but never got a list of who was owed kits, so they have not built/shipped either. Since they were never paid, they have no incentive to send out any free kits without the list.
Yeah, you guys are really getting the crappy end of the stick here, Hope it works out for you all soon.
Hey everyone I thought you might be interested in this. A long time ago I added Tony's screenname (Tjnovello) to my AIM and he actually logged on while I was checking the website. So I figured I would shoot him an IM to see if he would respond and he actually did. The little bit of info I got out of him was that Chris and his wife seemed to have packed up and headed back to PA. He aslo told me that Andy's is in charge of the kit and that its all there deal now. He said that the whole thing was setup between Chris and the owner of Andy's. I tried to get info on chris out of him like contact info but as I figured there wasnt any. aside from his email
crofty59@hotmail.com . I told him about how Andy's says they know of no list and are giving us the run around on the kits and what not, he said he would go over there thursday or friday and see whats going on. I know that this is all a bunch of crap but I figured if anything it would remind him that this is not over and we are still trying to get justice.
tony aint going to do shiznits. he has always acted as if he knows nothing. but if you ask me, the water is about to get hotter. If tony does try to help us then it wont be voluntery.
Ok guys, I have not heard form Nirish...I lost his number and for some reason (maybe my own bad) i got my e-mail set back.
I will gladly talk to my unlce if any of you would like to form a Lawsuit and begin to get the ball rolling. He is on a seperate case right now and possibly for the next month and a half, but if you guys are serious about getting you money back i can talk to him and see if he still can help (i told him about it months ago, but Nirish did not take the offer..so he couldn;t sit and wait)...But if he cannot take it, it is possible one of his associates might be able to.
I will talk to him tomorrow and see what he can do.
If anyone is serious, i reconmend you all get together, and bring as much infomation as you possibly can, so if he can help, then you guys come prepaired... I will talk to him soon.
Lupe
Thanks Lupe we apprecieate your help. Let me know what your Uncle has to say and Ill see what I can do. I hope that this gets somewhere soon
Wow, I have been off the boards for a while and was reading up on this. Someone needs to go give that dude an asswhooping. I dobn't normally condone violence, but I would unleash on this dude
All CEG needs from his is a freakin' list. If we could contact him & have somebody with some backup give him a 'complete as possible' list of people who are owed items, we could have him sign the document & present it to Andys for fullfillment or refund.
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
All CEG needs from his is a freakin' list. If we could contact him & have somebody with some backup give him a 'complete as possible' list of people who are owed items, we could have him sign the document & present it to Andys for fullfillment or refund.
Ha, you don't understand what kinda people we're dealing with if you think that'll work. None of the people involved (not talking about nirish) care to get anyone's kit made or anyone's money back.
tony, chris and andys all work together and are really tight with each other. Thats why andys doesnt want to give it to us unless we make them.
Originally posted by lsneo:
tony, chris and andys all work together and are really tight with each other. Thats why andys doesnt want to give it to us unless we make them.
Well, we need to assemble a death squad then.
let me know what i can do to help . I wan my money back or kit man
Dam this sucks! Something finally seems to come around for these neglected and underrated cars and this is what we end up with. I really wanted to get in on this group buy too but didn't have any money and my car was broke. I hope every one get's what is rightfully theirs. I never trusted Chris ever since he smashed up his own car to get insurance money.
ok people.. i have spoke with someone at andy's.. and they still say even though chris says differently. that thye never recieved a list of people who are supposed to get the kits. and aren't going to do anything until they do from chris.. This deal was set up between chris and the owner of andy's. I was not involved in it. and i wasn't invovled in any of the contour paper work or aggreements with ceg. If you notice. all money paid was paid to chris croft. not kaotic innovations or myself. all checks and paypals were made out to chris. weather this is believed or not.. there isn't much i can do about that. Chris has moved back to PA.. i haven't spoke wiht him in over 2 months. i don't even know if he checks his email anymore.
if there was something more i could do to remedy this situation i will. but at the moment. it is between chris and andy's.
ok people.. i have spoke with someone at andy's.. and they still say even though chris says differently. that thye never recieved a list of people who are supposed to get the kits. and aren't going to do anything until they do from chris.. This deal was set up between chris and the owner of andy's. I was not involved in it. and i wasn't invovled in any of the contour paper work or aggreements with ceg. If you notice. all money paid was paid to chris croft. not kaotic innovations or myself. all checks and paypals were made out to chris. weather this is believed or not.. there isn't much i can do about that. Chris has moved back to PA.. i haven't spoke wiht him in over 2 months. i don't even know if he checks his email anymore.
if there was something more i could do to remedy this situation i will. but at the moment. it is between chris and andy's.
So, basically you have nothing new to add for anyone.
Saying the money was not paid to you directly is fine and dandy. But you put yourself into the mix back in the actual group buy thread. You clearly stated that "we" meaning you and Chris, were not going to rip anybody off and that YOU were doing the kits all by yourself (01/14/04).
Why bother telling everyone that there is nothing you can do if you didn't do anything when you had the chance? You stated you were the "co-owner" and had access to this so-called "list", yet Andys knows nothing about it.
Oh well.
Originally posted by 1314:
So, basically you have nothing new to add for anyone.
Saying the money was not paid to you directly is fine and dandy. But you put yourself into the mix back in the actual group buy thread. You clearly stated that "we" meaning you and Chris, were not going to rip anybody off and that YOU were doing the kits all by yourself (01/14/04).
Why bother telling everyone that there is nothing you can do if you didn't do anything when you had the chance? You stated you were the "co-owner" and had access to this so-called "list", yet Andys knows nothing about it.
Oh well.
yep.. well i had nothing to do with the closing of the shop.. chris decided to leave. and it couldn't be run by one person.. chris took the molds.. and worked out the deal wiht andy's.. chris has and had all the paperwork concerning the contour bb. chris was handling the shipping. so i never needed to see the "list". the only person that can resolve the issues between ceg and andy's and chris.. is chris..
Originally posted by tnovello:
ok people.. i have spoke with someone at andy's.. and they still say even though chris says differently. that thye never recieved a list of people who are supposed to get the kits. and aren't going to do anything until they do from chris.. This deal was set up between chris and the owner of andy's. I was not involved in it. and i wasn't invovled in any of the contour paper work or aggreements with ceg. If you notice. all money paid was paid to chris croft. not kaotic innovations or myself. all checks and paypals were made out to chris. weather this is believed or not.. there isn't much i can do about that. Chris has moved back to PA.. i haven't spoke wiht him in over 2 months. i don't even know if he checks his email anymore.
if there was something more i could do to remedy this situation i will. but at the moment. it is between chris and andy's.
Well, thanks for looking into it this far at any rate. One last thing you might do, if you can contact Chris somehow, is to have Chris forward a copy of the list to Andys and that would solve the problems - You may even want to post a scan of the list in this thread when it gets sent. We just need a list.
Now if Chris no longer has that list, members here may be able to provide payment information & dates so that Chris can re-make a list as complete as possible and forward it to Andys - and again have a scan posted here. That should solve the majority of problems, though perhaps not all.
How 'bout it??
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Now if Chris no longer has that list, members here may be able to provide payment information & dates so that Chris can re-make a list as complete as possible and forward it to Andys - and again have a scan posted here. That should solve the majority of problems, though perhaps not all.
You guys are out of your minds if you think Andy's is going to make (however many) kits once they receive this magical list. Chances are there was no agreement from Andy's to make the GB-promised kits. At most, you might be able to get one from them by paying for it like a regular customer would.
Your best option here is to try to get your money back from Kaotic.
Originally posted by Davo:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Now if Chris no longer has that list, members here may be able to provide payment information & dates so that Chris can re-make a list as complete as possible and forward it to Andys - and again have a scan posted here. That should solve the majority of problems, though perhaps not all.
You guys are out of your minds if you think Andy's is going to make (however many) kits once they receive this magical list. Chances are there was no agreement from Andy's to make the GB-promised kits. At most, you might be able to get one from them by paying for it like a regular customer would.
Your best option here is to try to get your money back from Kaotic.
I would tend to agree with you Davo... I guess I'm offering the benefit of a doubt..., and pursuing every course of action before giving up on the deal and smacking people over the head with lawyers is just a prudent thing to do.
If by some magic we get said list, it can be presented to Andys and it becomes their problem. Chris will be out of the picture finally and we will be dealing with a going concern. That gives us some leverage, and an avenue to pursue that is currently not available.
Chris, wake up! This is your way out.
That's all great, if Chris made Andy sign something that said Andy would make the kits for the people in the Group Buy. I'm doubting that ever happened. I'm guessing Chris sold the kits straight up, with no strings attached, then hit the road.
Andy's knows about you all that were dealing with Chris, according to this (posted back on page 13ish, depending on your settings, 2/20/04):
Originally posted by ohsigmachi:
I just recieved this email from Eric today, maybe just maybe there is something on the works.
Michael, thanks for the email. Chris has provided us with the molds, but the contract for our purchase of them has not been finalized. We have not received any funds, and have not yet been provided any information regarding specific people who need to have orders fulfilled. That being said, one of the terms of the contract was that the existing customers have their orders fulfilled. Being that the contract is not finalized (and that we don't have a list of people to send to!), we are not in a position yet to fulfill these orders.
I would urge you to stay in contact at your convenience. We look forward to ensuring that all customers of
Chris' company get what they paid for.
Thanks,
Eric Ferguson
Andy's Auto Sport
1-800-419-1152 x106
ericferguson@sbcglobal.net
Originally posted by Davo:
That's all great, if Chris made Andy sign something that said Andy would make the kits for the people in the Group Buy. I'm doubting that ever happened. I'm guessing Chris sold the kits straight up, with no strings attached, then hit the road.
We may not need that signed paper. Andys is on record having said they're waiting for a list. Getting that, they would be obligated to follow through with what they are on record as saying - they'd make kits.
They may have said they were waiting for a list, but I doubt they expect to be doing all that work without cost to the consumer.
I guess I don't know. I don't really know many details, other than pretty much everyone got the shaft but Matt, and I guess driving out there was the only real way to get any Kaotic product (it was a hell of a trip though).
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Davo:
That's all great, if Chris made Andy sign something that said Andy would make the kits for the people in the Group Buy. I'm doubting that ever happened. I'm guessing Chris sold the kits straight up, with no strings attached, then hit the road.
We may not need that signed paper. Andys is on record having said they're waiting for a list. Getting that, they would be obligated to follow through with what they are on record as saying - they'd make kits.
Note that they also say 2 other things:
1> We have not received any funds, and have not yet been provided any information regarding specific people who need to have orders fulfilled
Which, to me anyways, seems that Andy's wasn't going to make all these kits and get nothing but just a mold -- Chris was paying them some amount as well. Money they, apparently, never received.
2> The contract was never finalized, meaning they have no obligation whatsoever to do anything once you give them a list, however you go about doing it.
Andy's does say they are waiting for a list -- but they say that only as a secondary condition to the contract being finalized first. There is obviously more than just a list that Andy's is waiting on.
as far as i see and and as the law sees it, chris and tony owned the company, therefore responsible for the companies actions (chris). Chris made a contract with andys, proven by the posts and the phone calls that they have answered, so therefore chris and tony are therefore responsible fot the orders. If chris makes a contract representing his company then tony (who is also "the company") is able to hand over the list and finish their side of the contract. Now tony can hand chris (from andys) the list because the contract was made between kaotic inovations and andys. If no one wants to comply with the andys-kaotic contracts then they are breaching ceg's contract between us and kaotic. Andys recognises that they need to supply us with our products. If noone does their part then out lawyers will do their parts. And yes that does mean that chris and tony will go down first. Tony this is your chance to get out of it, dont be stupid and ignore us. Either get them the list, or get chris to get the list to andys. Andys needs to understand that they will be held responsible also.
Tony, really man, get the list to Andy's. For the sake of everyone else, not me. I doubt I'll ever see my $75 back. Though I should be on that list, because I KNOW I was on YOUR company's website as having paid that $75. You may say Chris did everything, but you can't tell me you just stood there and didn't realize anything or have anything to do with what's going on. Either way, you're still involved in this, so it's up to you to fix it or get Chris to fix it.
my only question to all this is why hasn't anyone sued Nirish or Kaotic. Everyone here that thinks this is going to pan out is smoking something. They took your money and ran. If nobody is going to step and take action you might as well kiss everything goodbye. Where is Nirish in all of this?
omg nirish didnt do anything, dont talk if you dont know the truth. Chris took the money not nirish.
all i said was sue to get the money back. who are you gonna go through nirish?? I don't see him on here helping anybody out. people that gave him the money are entilted to get it back from him. im not saying he took anything.
We're entitled to kits/money from Kaotic or Andy's depending on the contract between them and Kaotic. Nirish was just one of us, trying to get something good done for the contour community, and he's still in it with us.
as far as i know.. eric did sign paperwork saying he would conplete the bulkbuy and i have someone that was there at the time.. other than chris. and how he says there was no recipt of funds.. well.. as far as i knew.. he wasn't getting any money.. it was molds.. for kits to be delievered to the remainder of the bb.. i'll see if i can get ahold of chris.. i have to on another matter he got me in the middle of.. i'll see if i can get a copy of the list and take it to eric myself and find out what's up.. if i can get this over with for you guys.. i will
Hey, do me a favor and make sure that I and others that only made deposits get our money back. You may get Andy's to make the kits for those that fully paid (and maybe a few that made deposits and that wanna go ahead and pay rest for a kit) but I doubt that they'll refund those of us that paid deposits and either sold our cars or just don't want the kit anymore. As far as I'm concerned that is for Kaotic to take care off. And as far as I know, Kaotic = You and Chris. I was listed on your website as having paid $75 and others were listed to (most having paid more than me). And we're entitled to our money back just as much as those that fully paid are entitled to their kits.
Tony, please email me at
perry@contour.org. I'm talking to Eric @ Andy's and have a couple questions for you.
Nirish, please email me also.
ok guys i just got reading this thread today. I gave hella 150 deposit and i figured it was just lost since i didn't ever here anything from him. I just got the balls to ask about this in the GB section and i got sent here.... can someone some up whats happening with "going after _____" I read.. ( really don't want to take ALL weekend to read everything i missed sorry)
Like I told you before this thread and your deposit to "Hella" are two different deals. Going after hella is all on your own. Jeez he works in Troy I guess so go find him! Good luck
well narish and i will be going to andy's next friday to hand over a list of the names for the people that have paid.. we are working on a solution for those that have paid deposits.. but the deposits that have been made will have to be taken up with chris when he surfaces.. narish and i are working together to finally get this sorted out and get everyone as close to happy as can be. narish and i had a long talk today and worked out a lot of the details.. more info will follow as we get it.
Glad you guys were able to work some things out
Try and push for as many kits as you can above and beyond what Andy's is supposed to make.
I feel...like a virgin..posting for the very first time...
Hey guys, Tony and I talked early this morning and we're working out things for the group. I am still alive - just not here for obvious reasons. I will update you with any new news - next week I am going to meet up with Tony at Andy's and settle this. There are other details and things that need to be figured out. Biggest thing is flushing out Chris from his spiderhole in PA.
Thank you Nirish. You are doing more than anyone else has done and achieving more. We definitely need to get everything worked out with everyone and it seems things are starting to turn out good.
i know how we can help nirish. GB on nyceboi emblems. I think he has 10 left.
thank you so much for helping us out...
There is a guy here in Jackson i see sometimes with a silver contour with the body kit. I dont really like the back bumper but the rest looks great. I dont think i like it enough to spend another 650 dollars to buy it AGAIN.
Will the kits still be shipped out in the same order from before, and what about the extra I put down for the widebody?
Thanks for the update,
Doug C.
So did you guys go and see them last friday or what?
hi guys, dont mean to intrude here but just poking in to offer a little help.
i read the first 16 pages! and then the last 4 or 5. too many to read now.
i got the gist of what's going on though.
i am currently in law school and can hopefully shed a little light on this, but dont take it as legal advice..
i read someone say something about finalizing the contract. sounds normal, but not necessarily true. the shop guys is talking like he knows what he is talking about. if negotiations have already begun and both parties intend to form the contract, then the contract can be legally binding depending on the circumstances/facts.
for a class action, you need a 100 plaintiffs. wont do much here.
There could also be a breech of contract against Kaotic(?). you dont necessarily need a lawyer. this can be handled in small claims court. the person who dealt with the shop, Nirish?, can file in his town handle it (up to $5k only). it sounds like Nirish and the shop are in the same state, and nearby? so thats good. as far as suing out of state via small claims court, im not sure. but im sure you can find out on the web. lawyers (unless you know them personaly) are only going to advise you to go with the action that will get you to pay him.
Please remember people, there are statutes of limitations for whatever action you seek to address (breech of contract, fraud, etc..)
out of curiosity, has anyone contacted the FBI? any kind of fraudulent legal actions via interstate is a federal offense and the fbi takes it seriously. they are very friendly. give your local office a call, they will put you on with an actual agent immediately and answer all of your questions as to if they can help you or give you advice as to where to go. I have called them before.
If whoever is the most knowlegable on this situation would like to pm please feel free. you can give me some info/list of questions and i would be more than happy to take them to class and discuss with one of my professors. they are very nice and helpful. (and obviously unbiased cuz they dont stand to make any money off it). dont spend $2500 on a lawyer when each person only has $700 or so invested. IF he can get you any money back, when you divy it up, youll have much less, some none. He might not even be able to do anything.
another thing, is the shop incorporated or no? as someone said earlier they might not truly "own" anything but be in mass debt. this is true, BUT, if they are not Inc, and you get a judgment, then you can file a lien against his house or any assets (car, tax returns, etc...garnish wages if he loses his business and gets a real job).
anyway, sorry to interrupt and only trying to help.
feel free to contact me if you like, ill be sitting here studying and reading the posts.
So how about an update?????????
Hello everyone, you all may want to know this because you might find it interesting. Your "Chris Croft" guy is actually up here in Williamsport Pennsylvania teaching a Fiberglass/Composites class here at the Pennsylvania College Of Technology. He moved here from california and even told us he worked for andys auto sport. I cant believe i found all this [censored] on my teacher. Let me know guys what you want me to do, or to just find out more information, contact me on aol instant messenger at meckamaniac.
all i can say is wow
Tell him I want my deposit back! Im still out $150!
meckster, you probably just flunked your class.
Originally posted by meckster:
all i can say is wow
That's awesome!
If he ever tries to give you $h!t.... 
its weird that im even posting here, i own a cavalier (www.cardomain.com/id/meckster), but all the trails led here and i decided to post. And yes this is 100% the chris croft you guys are talking about.
Originally posted by meckster:
its weird that im even posting here, i own a cavalier (www.cardomain.com/id/meckster), but all the trails led here and i decided to post. And yes this is 100% the chris croft you guys are talking about.
If this is the Chris Croft involved in the group buy rip-off, you fellas might want to go to www.pct.edu and look him up under faculty and staff directory.
wow. sucks to be him.
Originally posted by XKontour98:
Hey everyone I thought you might be interested in this. A long time ago I added Tony's screenname (Tjnovello) to my AIM and he actually logged on while I was checking the website. So I figured I would shoot him an IM to see if he would respond and he actually did. The little bit of info I got out of him was that Chris and his wife seemed to have packed up and headed back to PA. He aslo told me that Andy's is in charge of the kit and that its all there deal now. He said that the whole thing was setup between Chris and the owner of Andy's. I tried to get info on chris out of him like contact info but as I figured there wasnt any. aside from his email crofty59@hotmail.com . I told him about how Andy's says they know of no list and are giving us the run around on the kits and what not, he said he would go over there thursday or friday and see whats going on. I know that this is all a bunch of crap but I figured if anything it would remind him that this is not over and we are still trying to get justice.
This is a couple pages back ... everything is lining up perfectly (moving to PA part at least) ...
good luck guys, I am thankful I didn't get into this mess at all!
Can I have my $75 back? Please. Where the . is terry (hellahydro). I'd like to just meet that loser. He can have my money, I'd get the pleasure of stomping him down.
RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!
Employee Directory Search Results 1 - 1 of 1:
Last Name: croft
CROFT, CHRISTOPHER L
P/T FACULTY, COLLISION REPAIR
Employee Group: FACULTY
Office: ATC/133
Extension: 7275
DIF: 0125
E-mail:
ccroft@pct.edu
Originally posted by DJ Capp 911:
RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!
Employee Directory Search Results 1 - 1 of 1:
Last Name: croft
CROFT, CHRISTOPHER L
P/T FACULTY, COLLISION REPAIR
Employee Group: FACULTY
Office: ATC/133
Extension: 7275
DIF: 0125
E-mail: ccroft@pct.edu
LOL! I see someone getting a lot of hateful VM's!
I can understand how all you guys feel, but i want to hear some facts. No he says this, he says that kind of crap. What exactly does he owe you guys? He's a pretty nice guy and the class is pretty cool, so its hard to imagine some of the stuff ive read on here. Dont start calling the school and starting crap with him just to cause trouble.
Originally posted by penncollegeguy:
I can understand how all you guys feel, but i want to hear some facts. No he says this, he says that kind of crap. What exactly does he owe you guys? He's a pretty nice guy and the class is pretty cool, so its hard to imagine some of the stuff ive read on here. Dont start calling the school and starting crap with him just to cause trouble.
He accepted several thousand dollars from the CEG community and bankrupted his company before he could complete the project he accepted the money for. Granted, anyone who sent the $600+ or even a deposit needs their head examined, especially for something that did not exist and they did not even know what it was going to look like. But Chris could have handled it in a more professional (and legal) manner. Not only did he bankrupt his company, he left town and left a very ambiguous description of how the project will be completed. In short, he hightailed out of town with several thousands of dollars and no product delivered. As far as I know, most of the people who purchased the body kits have had them delivered (via Andy's Auto Sports), but the process took way too long and was very, very unprofessional.
In addition, the project car (owner: Nirish, or onosway) was left nearly destroyed when Chris left Oroville. This left Nirish with several thousands of dollars in needed body work that Nirish understood was going to be done by Chris. And the way Speed Demon was treated when we went out to get his bumper (the first one made) was despicable. But I don't want to get into that again.
You (penncollegeguy) came here and said you would act as a liason between CEG and Chris Croft. If you didn't understand CEG's response to your inquiry, then you don't understand what the CEG community thinks of Chris. Don't start to backpedal now that people may actually take some action on this.
No im not backing out of anything, i just wanted to find out some more info so maybe a resolution can be made.
Originally posted by mikey boy:
wow. sucks to be him.
yes sir Anybody got some rope?
Originally posted by penncollegeguy:
No im not backing out of anything, i just wanted to find out some more info so maybe a resolution can be made.
If you've read the thread, you know the paticipants want restitution. They paid money for a product. No product, return the money. SIMPLE.
Originally posted by penncollegeguy:
I can understand how all you guys feel, but i want to hear some facts. No he says this, he says that kind of crap. What exactly does he owe you guys? He's a pretty nice guy and the class is pretty cool, so its hard to imagine some of the stuff ive read on here. Dont start calling the school and starting crap with him just to cause trouble.
You want to know the facts bro? Go back and read the first 46 pages of this thread!!!!!!!!! That alone tells you that something was [censored] up!
I am here to post in Chris's defense. I am presently in chris's class now. I have know Chris for a short time but in that time myself and all of my classmates have no reason to not respect Chris. He has given us nothing but respect. This was topic was talked about in class the other day. Chris explained to us the whole situation to us and gaves us the reasons for the closeing of his shop and for him moving. While Chris was exlpaining the situation he did not once say anything bad about this fourm or the people belonging to it. His still thinks highly of you. I will not share with you what he said because I am not going to share his personal life all over the internet. But I can tell you that Chris took the correct steps to make sure that the kits would reach you. He was sorry for it taking so long and took full responeablity for his actions but [censored] happens and this didnt work out like he would have liked them to. I can see how this would look like fraud but it isnt. I is a case of a man who did what he thought was right. So I am just here to say that Chris deserves your respect and all though I do not know the present problems with the situation I can tell you it is not in Chris's hands and he is not running. I hope that you will someday understand what has happened and not look down on Chris becuase he is nothing but a good man that is doing what he can to make his way through life. Thank you for your time and I Hope you get your kits and that you can look back on this and realize it is a misunderstanding..
Originally posted by Scary Version:
I am here to post in Chris's defense. I am presently in chris's class now. I have know Chris for a short time but in that time myself and all of my classmates have no reason to not respect Chris. He has given us nothing but respect. This was topic was talked about in class the other day. Chris explained to us the whole situation to us and gaves us the reasons for the closeing of his shop and for him moving. While Chris was exlpaining the situation he did not once say anything bad about this fourm or the people belonging to it. His still thinks highly of you. I will not share with you what he said because I am not going to share his personal life all over the internet. But I can tell you that Chris took the correct steps to make sure that the kits would reach you. He was sorry for it taking so long and took full responeablity for his actions but [censored] happens and this didnt work out like he would have liked them to. I can see how this would look like fraud but it isnt. I is a case of a man who did what he thought was right. So I am just here to say that Chris deserves your respect and all though I do not know the present problems with the situation I can tell you it is not in Chris's hands and he is not running. I hope that you will someday understand what has happened and not look down on Chris becuase he is nothing but a good man that is doing what he can to make his way through life. Thank you for your time and I Hope you get your kits and that you can look back on this and realize it is a misunderstanding..
Since when is cheating people considered good to make a way in life? Like i said before, he cheated me out of my $150 deposit and still havent received my kit.
Originally posted by Scary Version:
some people just dont get it. i wonder how much time and work cegers had to do to get the money for the kits just to have someone walk off with it. yeah he is a really great guy. i wonder if he cried when he was telling the class about how he robbed families of their money.
So Chris is a great man for taking my money? I have no body kit and am out some money. Yeah Chris is a freakin great guy.
Something sounds fishy here. How does one correlate there teacher with an online scandal? I never went out and searced for my teachers and there previous mis-doings. Don't take offense if its for real, just strange to me. Kind of seems like its himself posting, or little puppets for him. Either way I am confused
I'd bet $20 that this "Scary Version" guy is Mr. Chris Croft himself... I love the "I can see how this would look like fraud but it isn't..." line. How the F is it not fraud? This guy took a buttload of money and then skipped out without producing parts or refunding money. I might have missed English class that day when we were going over vocabulary words, but that sounds like fraud to me.
I hope that you will someday understand what has happened and not look down on Chris becuase he is nothing but a good man that is doing what he can to make his way through life What a quote. If he was such a good man he'd have kept his word and either spit out some parts or refunded money. Simple as that. Forgive me if he doesn't get my Humanitarian of the Year vote.
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Something sounds fishy here. How does one correlate there teacher with an online scandal? I never went out and searced for my teachers and there previous mis-doings. Don't take offense if its for real, just strange to me. Kind of seems like its himself posting, or little puppets for him. Either way I am confused
I've searched for professors names to find out about previous projects they've been part of, or books they've written... many people I know have done similar.
Anyway, I can't remember everything perfectly from the whole 'kaotic' fiasco. But from what I do recall, it seems that Chris successfully fooled a lot of people....meaning that he is not stupid. He's probably feeding these kids in his class some sort of sob story so that he can look like a 'good guy' who got caught up in a bad situation. These kids apparently believe everything he say.
If we take a step back and look at everything that has happened, I think people have to agree, Chris isn't stupid....look at everything he has managed to get away with.
wow - i'm still alive guys...
... in a sick and twisted way i'm glad Chris is too...
... this fu'kr is going down this time
... chris, time to skip town again bi'ch
... this is beyond personal now, you messed with too many people.
AIN'T KARMA A B!TCH
now back to your regularly scheduled posting.
I was shown this thread by someone else because they visited my car site at
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/366130 which shows how Chris Croft Ripped me off. Here is another summary of what happened to me.
I was dealing with a guy from Cali named CHRIS CROFT (formly owner of Kaotic Innovations). I told him i was interested in a body kit for my car but i didn't have the money. I told him i had a brand new still in box ZEX kit that i didn't need because i already had a SC. The guy then says to me...."hmmm that's not really a fair trade...i'm going to need something else" Originally he wanted a Purge Kit AND a Remote Bottle Opener. I then told him that's too much and could only do the Purge Kit. He agreed and i spent another $300 on a purge kit. I sent the ZEX kit from one mail source and then sent the purge kit using another mail service. After months had gone by he says "I haven't Received anything" WTF :wtf: So i phoned both mail service companies and BOTH of them said that the package had been tracked down and reached it's destination. He then still denies he received anything. I phoned the company up where he had been working at the time (Andy's Autosport) and asked another worker if he knew if Chris Croft Received anything? He said he wasn't sure...."the only thing i've seen Chris receive in the last couple of weeks is a purple nos kit....but that's about it" :wtf: Well Chris tells me that he'll send me a kit out soon.................that was 4 years.
Can we all get together and sue this guy? I'm all ready for this. Plus i still have EVERY email you ever sent me please proof that i sent him the stuff. What's the next step?
My email is
jstoykoff@sympatico.ca
I was shown this thread by someone else because they visited my car site at
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/366130 which shows how Chris Croft Ripped me off. Here is another summary of what happened to me.
I was dealing with a guy from Cali named CHRIS CROFT (formly owner of Kaotic Innovations). I told him i was interested in a body kit for my car but i didn't have the money. I told him i had a brand new still in box ZEX kit that i didn't need because i already had a SC. The guy then says to me...."hmmm that's not really a fair trade...i'm going to need something else" Originally he wanted a Purge Kit AND a Remote Bottle Opener. I then told him that's too much and could only do the Purge Kit. He agreed and i spent another $300 on a purge kit. I sent the ZEX kit from one mail source and then sent the purge kit using another mail service. After months had gone by he says "I haven't Received anything" WTF :wtf: So i phoned both mail service companies and BOTH of them said that the package had been tracked down and reached it's destination. He then still denies he received anything. I phoned the company up where he had been working at the time (Andy's Autosport) and asked another worker if he knew if Chris Croft Received anything? He said he wasn't sure...."the only thing i've seen Chris receive in the last couple of weeks is a purple nos kit....but that's about it" :wtf: Well Chris tells me that he'll send me a kit out soon.................that was 4 years.
Can we all get together and sue this guy? I'm all ready for this. Plus i still have EVERY email you ever sent me please proof that i sent him the stuff. What's the next step?
My email is
jstoykoff@sympatico.ca
Originally posted by onosway:
wow - i'm still alive guys...
... in a sick and twisted way i'm glad Chris is too...
... this fu'kr is going down this time
... chris, time to skip town again bi'ch
... this is beyond personal now, you messed with too many people.
AIN'T KARMA A B!TCH
now back to your regularly scheduled posting.
I'll be keeping an eye on the news out of PA.
isn't there anyone from PA that bought one of these kits that didnt get it. track his azz down a unleash hell...or untill i felt i had beaten the $xxxx out of him that i lost so that I can sleep happy again.
Originally posted by onosway:
wow - i'm still alive guys...
... in a sick and twisted way i'm glad Chris is too...
... this fu'kr is going down this time
... chris, time to skip town again bi'ch
... this is beyond personal now, you messed with too many people.
AIN'T KARMA A B!TCH
now back to your regularly scheduled posting.
nirish, do you have a email i can get ahold of you at? im trying to help in this situation and id like to send you an email on what ive done.
well now that everyone knows where he works, it's a pretty easy way to screw with someone's life....harass them at work! I think LOTS of people calling the university to complain about this loser's past misdeeds will seriously have an effect on him.
if it's one thing people like this dont like, its to have new people find out about the [cenosred] theyve done to other people. nothing like airin' some dirty laundry!
*i didnt even get ripped off in this deal and it pisses me off!
im full of nasty ideas when it comes to retribution so ill keep peeking in here for futher developments.
ps if you can get that muthaphuchar's home address, phone number, and email you can probably count on many many people helping you in "contacting" him
what is the update on this situation?