Took a look at the mazda 6 today,and was somewhat surprised when I pointed to my contour outside and told
the salesman that I considered the 6 to be it's replacement as ford had no V-6 5-speed 4 door car available
and he became quite offended. He assured me that the 6 had nothing in common with Fords and was a com-
pletely new Mazda only design,and that a lowly contour was nowhere near the quality and luxury/power of
this new Mazda. I was somewhat taken aback as was my wife so we left without even a test drive,looks like
I will have to consider going to another dealer in another city before I'd buy one from them.
Anyone else run into this kinda attitude?
Originally posted by 96SEMAN:
Took a look at the mazda 6 today,and was somewhat surprised when I pointed to my contour outside and told
the salesman that I considered the 6 to be it's replacement as ford had no V-6 5-speed 4 door car available
and he became quite offended. He assured me that the 6 had nothing in common with Fords and was a com-
pletely new Mazda only design,and that a lowly contour was nowhere near the quality and luxury/power of
this new Mazda. I was somewhat taken aback as was my wife so we left without even a test drive,looks like
I will have to consider going to another dealer in another city before I'd buy one from them.
Anyone else run into this kinda attitude?
Should have bet him the car.
You to Mr Salesman: "If I can show you the link between the Contour and the Mazda 6S, will you give me thar car for free?"
You to Mr Salesman: "You understand that I only buy from folks who are 100% honest to me, and I will ask you questions that I already know the answer, to test your honesty."
I know a guy at a Mazda MPV board who got lifetime free oil changes from the service manager, by showing him the FL820S oil filter on his 2.5L Duratec engine. The service manager was certain they had a special Mazda filter.
Of course this guy knows the service manager, so it wasn't that big a deal, and he brings the synthetic oil and K&N filter to them to do the change.
TB
Actually when I went, the sales rep (european guy) asked how expensive it was to import my Mondeo and proceeded to tell me how much the 6 has with the Mondeo. Then I think we spent more time with him gawking at the SVT then me pawing over the 6.
I think I would send two letters as well. Send one to the saleman, and call the dealership and send one to the General Manager and/or the Sales Manager as well.
Let them know that you were not happy with the salesman insulting your car to start with.
Second that you don't appreciate salesmen that either lie or make stuff up as they go along. Neither of those traits are worthy of you spending your money there.
Finally, let them know that you will tell everybody you know about this, and because of this will discourge friends, family and co-workers from doing business with their business.
That is the only way to get rid of lousy dealers, to stop buying cars from them.
I'd rather give my money to the guy who charges a bit more, but gives good service than to the lowest priced, but slimey dealership.
Stop rewarding slimy sales practices.
TB
I've learned that many a car salesman just doesn't know much about cars. To them, its just a job.
However, you find the right one and you'll probably be jawing past dinner time.
-R-
I bet this dude thinks Mazda is owned by Honda too right
Geez what kind of statement is "the 6 had nothing in common with Fords and was a completely new Mazda only design,and that a lowly contour was nowhere near the quality and luxury/power of this new Mazda." Geez the Contour is practically the same thing! If you check the 1/4 mile times they are the same as the "less powerful" SVT! Ha, this dude needs to do some research before he opens his big mouth. Oh yea, please tell us the dealership name and location, so we can go tell him the truth!
Dealers will trach any other car, and they just want to make $$$, couldnt care less about designs.
just like jaguar designs and builds their own cars specifically on their own. . .
nothing in common with ford, sheesh. . .
Originally posted by Richard David:
I've learned that many a car salesman just doesn't know much about cars. To them, its just a job.
However, you find the right one and you'll probably be jawing past dinner time.
-R-
I don't mind if someone doesn't know something. My customers ask me questions all the time that I don't know the answers. However, I DONT MAKE STUFF UP. I tell them I'll get an answer, look it up, etc.
If they make something up, that is pretty much the same as lying.
TB
I'm still incredulous over the look on his face when I mention and gestured towards my lowly contour.....
" if you opt for the V6, you get a 3.0-litre variant of the DOHC Ford Duratec
family, rated at 220 horsepower at 6300 rpm and 192 lb/ft of torque at 5000
rpm"
I'm tempted to print off that test drive report and take it to them,but it's not worth my personal satis-
faction.
Doesn't matter though,I still want one in a few years.
The engine is a Duratec if im not mistaken , that certainly has NOTHING to do with contours for sure.
Car salesman, who cares what they say?! They are not in the business because they are car enthusiasts, they work on commission. They under pressure to produce results. IMHO they don't care about cars or customers, they are concerned with the sale.
Originally posted by Marky:
Car salesman, who cares what they say?! They are not in the business because they are car enthusiasts, they work on commission. They under pressure to produce results. IMHO they don't care about cars or customers, they are concerned with the sale.
Which is exactly the wrong thing to do if you want to sell to the majority of the public. If I feel as if I am not even a factor in the car buying process, and that the salesman only cares about my money, getting my money, and making his money, then my interest in that dealership is finished. I believe you have to show a little bit of respect and interest in your customer so gain a little bit of trust to help push the deal in the right direction. Just saying what you want and throwing your opinion left and right isn't going to produce very good results, given you are dealing with a customer who wants to feel comfortable when buying a new car.
I sure as hell wouldn't want to deal with that salesman after his comments on my current car. It just sounds downright rude the way it was said. You do have to be aggresive and think on your feet in sales (basically be crooked) but that is no excuse for personal comments to be made to the customer in a negative manner.
-Bishop
Not all of em are sharks, I met one at a local Carmax who actually was an car nut, and owned an Audi TT coupe.
I'll go back there when I need a car.
Still, Mazda dealers act as if they are so above Fords, but forget that Mazda is controlled by Dearborn. In fact there would be no Mazda 6 if it were not for FoMoCo.
That particular salesman was probably selling shoes before getting into the car sales business!
Some salesmen don't even know much about the car they are driving.
Doesn't really matter what he did before or how much he knows.
There is no valid reason for a salesperson to make stuff up, or to insult the horse you rode in on.
Like I said, take the 15 minutes to write a polite letter and mail two copies, one to the GM and/or Sales Manager, and a "courtesy copy" to the salesguy explaining that you don't expect him to know everything, but you DO expect that everything he tells you is 100% true and accurate.
Close with you don't really appreciate being insulted about the car you drove to the dealership.
Tell him it makes you suspicious when the guy spends time running down your car when he should be selling the new car. It makes you wonder if he's trying to hide something about the new car by changing the subject to cutting down the trade.
TB
Like someone pointed out above, alot of salesmen
(NOT ALL) have no idea what they are selling. Some will even sink so far to trash other nameplates (i.e. a VW salesman comparing a Jetta to a 3 Series), assuming you are gullable enough to believe their load of bull.
Then again it works on about 80% of the people that step foot in showrooms because most people are too lazy to do their homework and rely on useless facts from Consumer Reports not to mention the whole thought of a car to get from point A to B
end rant
Originally posted by 2&1/2:
Like someone pointed out above, alot of salesmen (NOT ALL) have no idea what they are selling. Some will even sink so far to trash other nameplates (i.e. a VW salesman comparing a Jetta to a 3 Series), assuming you are gullable enough to believe their load of bull.
Then again it works on about 80% of the people that step foot in showrooms because most people are too lazy to do their homework and rely on useless facts from Consumer Reports not to mention the whole thought of a car to get from point A to B
end rant
I acknowledged that, several times in this thread. However, there is no excuse for someone making stuff up that they don't know.
I'm pretty sure there is product documentation, other experts to contact etc.
Heck, I'd accept an I don't know, you want me to find out long before I would accept some off the cuff, BS answer the guy made up.
But you are right, the majority of folks don't have the skills to tell when someone is making this stuff up.
They just care about the lowest price.
Funny though, if they can't tell when the guy is BS'ing about the product, how are they going to find the BS in the deal?
TB
Originally posted by 2&1/2:
useless facts from Consumer Reports
THANK GOD there are more people out there sharing this opinion! I would so LOVE to have a job that exposed this shady organization to the naive public. 
Originally posted by Peach:
I sure as hell wouldn't want to deal with that salesman after his comments on my current car. It just sounds downright rude the way it was said. You do have to be aggresive and think on your feet in sales (basically be crooked) but that is no excuse for personal comments to be made to the customer in a negative manner.
He was rude. There are much better ways to sell & make money - I know since I worked my way through college as a wine salesman. The "my cars are great, everything else is crap" attitude will cost this bozo money, and it should.
Like most people, you went into the dealership because you were interested in the cars there. He should know that you bought your 'Tour because it had virtues that you valued & should not have bad mouthed it. People hate to hear bad things about their judgements concerning anything - especially such major investments as a car.
Selling is easy, just find out what the person wants in a car. Find out what their plans are in the future to be sure the car will continue to fulfill their needs. Then show them what they wanted, followed by a suggestion of what else may fit them - perhaps fit better. I love choices, don't you?
I would have said something like "Wow...thats surprisingly ignorant. Is there another salesperson available that knows a little bit more?" Or ask to speak to the manager. Of course its tough to come up with the right way to react to something like that when it happens out of the blue and you just werent ready for it. I've had good experiences and bad experiences with car salespeople -- as someone mentioned, some of them just do not have all the facts and are really not interested enough in the cars to bother to get all the facts. And some are just downright pushy "lets go into the office and work through the details, shall we?"
My favorite own story is I went to a dealership that I had called ahead of time to see if they would be open and if I got there 15 minutes before close if they would let me test drive a car I was interested in, and he said sure no problem come on down. Well I show up, and ask to drive the car, and the salesguy like, well we are almost closed, are you going to buy the car? I said I dont know, thats why I came to drive it. I asked if the other salesguy was there, and he said no hes busy in the back and wouldnt get him. Then he basically told me I needed to come back tomorrow they were closing and needed to move the cars around-- very annoyed to say the least I started walking towards my car and the I hear the guy complaining that he hasnt sold a single car this week to another sales guy. Well no f**king kidding a**hole!
ezsvt,
I can go you one better. I was ready to sign for a Mazda 323 back in 1987. I called the dealer and said I would leave work at about 4:30, pick up my mom (who had to cosign for the employed, but no-credit history soon to be college grad) and I'd be there around 6PM, so would they have the car, and paperwork ready, would they be open, etc.
Sure,
So I drive my heap (a 1975 Buick Century) to get Mom, pick her up from work, and drive back to the Mazda dealer.
Closed!
She suggests that we visit one of her clients (she was an ad rep for a local paper)
So I buy a Chevy Beretta that night, and called the dealership the next day and let them know that I didn't need to buy the car from them, since they said they would be open and weren't when I showed up.
And you know what, back in the late 80's the Beretta was compared favorably to BMW 3'ers of that day, much like the Contour was during it's heyday.
TB
Originally posted by 96SEMAN:
I was somewhat taken aback as was my wife so we left without even a test drive,looks like
I will have to consider going to another dealer in another city before I'd buy one from them.
If I were you I would go on the test drive, haggle with him for hours over options..waste a whole afternoon of his prime selling time..then say: "Well, the good news is I want to buy this thing. The bad news is, I don't want to buy from YOU because you dissed the Contour"...
Then pop the hood, point at the Duratec, and say "does this look familiar"..
A salesmans lack of knowledge unbelievable at times. My father asked me earlier this year to help him purchase a Marauder. So we head down to the Mer/Lincon dealership and start talking to the salesman. Well he was cool and let us have it for a test drive(ohhh what a test drive
That car can move) But during the whole thing he would try to tell us about the spec and history of the car. Well lets say 90% of it was wrong. He was like " yeah this things goes just pefectly fitted with that 5 speed auto trans". Well the car was a 4 Speed. Next " and those are 18 inch mag wheels on there". They are 17's. We pop the hood and he says "look how big the heads are on this thing" and he's pointing to the throttle body lol.
But i have to say i envy my fathers Marauder
Some car salesman are knowledgable, some are not. I think he was trying to cut down your trade-in value.
Anyway, I had a nice experience last summer when my wife and I were shopping for her car. We were cruising through a used car parking lot in my SVT and a salesman stepped in front of my car so I had to stop. Then he knocks on my wife's window and I roll it down.
"You guys need any help?"
"No thanks. We are just looking."
"What are you looking for?"
"Maybe a small four-door."
"You going to trade this thing in?"
"pshhhh. No."
"Come on man. I need some cars for the high-schoolers."
At that point I rolled the window up in his face and sped off. I was trying to get his foot with my rear wheel but he kinda jumped back.
I think you should call this salesman and give him the address of the present thread:
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=general&Number=373324&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=2&fpart=1#Post374372He will know what we think of him and PERHAPS he could get a measure of his ignorance!
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
Then pop the hood, point at the Duratec, and say "does this look familiar"..
i dont think it would - the UIM is different i think?
Hell, my husband and I had a friggin salesman tell us to "have someone steal" our Explorer when we tried to trade it in.
This thread makes me wanna go to a Mazda dealer and have a little fun with em.
I just recently came from a Mazda dealer in N. OKC and I got exceptional help and service. The salesman knew from the start that I was only there to see what they had to offer and get a feel for how some of their cars handled and felt. He spent 2 hours talking w/ me about various cars, letting me test drive and look over every square inch of them. Got to look really closely at the RX-8, drive a Protege 5, and then got to drive the ever so 6S 5speed and have a little fun...
This guy was above par knowing I wasn't driving one off the lot that day. I even spoke w/ the sales manager and commended them for the service I recieved and how well I was treated. I'm leaving to move to AZ the end of this week and told them my time frame for purchasing a new car and even if I end up staying in AZ for long term, I'm still going to purchase one through this particular dealer when that time comes, all because of how I was treated. More than I can say for other dealerships who just want you to purchase something now or get off the lot... 
This just helped put the mazda 6 back up at the top of my list of considerations. 
Originally posted by 2000GreenTour:
Not all of em are sharks, I met one at a local Carmax who actually was an car nut, and owned an Audi TT coupe.
I'll go back there when I need a car.
Still, Mazda dealers act as if they are so above Fords, but forget that Mazda is controlled by Dearborn. In fact there would be no Mazda 6 if it were not for FoMoCo.
there'd be no *mazda* without Ford. who do you think keep the company afloat during those dark post RX-7 pre-miata days
Originally posted by mmarfan:
I bet this dude thinks Mazda is owned by Honda too right
Mazda dealer in my town is owned by honda dealer. I went to honda dealer and looked the two 6's they had there (waiting to be sent to mazda dealer on other side of town) instead of the hondas.
I had a similar experience. I was up at the Mazda dealer with a buddy of mine, we had just decided to stop and check the car out. We pull up in my car right next to the 6, and just step out to look at it. Of course we were immediately hounded by a salesman, who went full-bore right away. It took me a few minutes to insist to him that I'm not looking to buy, just looking for shitz and giggles. And he tried to belittle the SVT and saying how inferior it was to the 6. Not quite.
Bottom Line, Do your research! Know your stuff better than all the crap handed to you by some freaking idiot that just babbles and blows bubbles all day.
BigMoney and I live in a town where, as I figure it, trains them. Had an older salesman look at me when I was on his lot, and was sizing me up there! "Well how about first we check your credit rating...Blah Blah..." "Well lemmie find something first" "Where do you bank...." conversation goes on for a time and then he starts to tell me how I need to do my credit and yada yada, hands me his card....Wife and I walk to the car and on the way, tear up the business card, and leave it in the parking lot!
And oh yeah, that makes three of us that think consumer reports....sux...
L8R
As the owner of a CSVT I wouldn't have been offended in what he said, what did he say that isn't true? I mean fit and finish for instance, do you think the area around the trunk or under the hood isn't painted to match the rest of the car for instance? As far as power goes, well, it does have the 3.0L w/ VVT right? I remember a guy pullin' 175 hp w/ only 5K on the clock and it was bone stock
Then if you look at the car, inside and out, its really a better lookin' car than ours IMO. Now don't get me wrong, I still love my car, even 3 1/2 years later, but if your honest with yourself let me pose this question..."if both cars were infront of you back when you bought your car (if you bought new) which car would you have bought
Yeah....I guess alot of salesmen, managers, and service advisors tend to forget that word of mouth advertising is not only free, but in most circumstances more powerful than an advertisement will ever be.
I for one wanted a Mazda 6s before I found my Contour, but due to the experiences I had with my 2000 Mazda 626.....I couldn't bring myself to buy anything that rolled off that assembly line.....any freakin way yeah off topic but just had to add my 2 Cents.
Originally posted by The Striped SVT:
...if both cars were infront of you back when you bought your car (if you bought new) which car would you have bought
Without any doubt the SVT!
The Mazda6 has a plain and boring front end (the fog lights have been misplaced), the rear end looks a bit narrow and high, and the sport package looks like ugly aftermarket additions.
I personally put the Mazda6 in the anonymous cars category with the sedentary Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.
Originally posted by Captain Bart:
Originally posted by The Striped SVT:
...if both cars were infront of you back when you bought your car (if you bought new) which car would you have bought
Without any doubt the SVT!
The Mazda6 has a plain and boring front end (the fog lights have been misplaced), the rear end looks a bit narrow and high, and the sport package looks like ugly aftermarket additions.
I personally put the Mazda6 in the anonymous cars category with the sedentary Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.
I'd have to say about the exact opposite...the 6 has some flare, some character...the SVT looks like a Contour with aftermarket additions.
The wife and I decided to go back and grab a different salesman and really paw all over the car,but I'm waiting to buy a lease back one and let someone else take that big new car depreciation hit for me. I'll post what happens when we go back this time.....
If you go to
www.mazda.com, it says ford motor company in huge letters right at the bottom of the main screen. Doesnt get much more obvious than that that there is a link, does it?
I like the mazda 6, but it doesnt look exceptional to me. And the exhaust looks like two tiny little pipes with ricer chrome extensions on it. I prefer my svt -- if I was buying a NEW car now, it would not be a mazda 6 -- for a little more I can get a wrx (turbo and all wheel drive -- important around here) for example.
Originally posted by The Striped SVT:
I remember a guy pullin' 175 hp w/ only 5K on the clock and it was bone stock
That's one of the problems I had with the car. You would think that a "modern" version of the 3L Duratec would do much better. If it dynoed round 185 to 190, I would have no problem buying one this week.
side by side I would pick my SVT.
When the 5 door comes out I might lean somewhat in that direction but in the end it would still be my SVT.
But I LOVE THE INTERIOR - I might just install that interior somehow into my car
Originally posted by The Striped SVT:
Then if you look at the car, inside and out, its really a better lookin' car than ours IMO. Now don't get me wrong, I still love my car, even 3 1/2 years later, but if your honest with yourself let me pose this question..."if both cars were infront of you back when you bought your car (if you bought new) which car would you have bought
I think the SVT is clearly nicer looking outside..
Inside...Mazda nicer by a wide margin...
Power.....a draw slight edge to Mazda simply for "modability"
Handling....slight edge to SVT
The Mazda has more polish..the SVT more viceral character.
It would be a tough choice...but I got the SVT for 18.4K new...we have a winner!
If it is a tough choice between the already seven years old SVT and the 2004 Mazda6, not only we have a winner with the SVT, something is wrong with the Mazda6: it lacks character and exclusivity!
Hey Boyd did you get a chance to check out the RX8s they had on the lot? They got quite a few of them in before being moved around the province or getting picked up by thier owners. It's kinda neat living here for that. Saskatoon's SVT dealer gets the entire province's allotment of Cobras and lightnings, so if you go at the right time, there's dozens of these rare cars randomly parked in a field beside the dealership
There will be 6 SVT Foci on the lot at a time, one of every color.
I remember when I was looking at the SVTF just bofore buying the ZX5. The salesman was all giddy about me buying a SVTF from him, spent a good hour talking stats and specs, then went on about the Contour I'd be swapping. I went back a few days later and said I'd take a ZX5 instead. All of a sudden I ceased to exist and he handed me a card and walked off. I was still going to buy a car from him until that point. I ended up buying from Steacy Ford in Battleford. So far the only decent salesman I've met in s'toon was at the Hyundai dealer
When they wouldn't even let me drive an SVT without a firm commital I gave up on that idea too....
Originally posted by 18psi2300:
Originally posted by Captain Bart:
Originally posted by The Striped SVT:
...if both cars were infront of you back when you bought your car (if you bought new) which car would you have bought
Without any doubt the SVT!
The Mazda6 has a plain and boring front end (the fog lights have been misplaced), the rear end looks a bit narrow and high, and the sport package looks like ugly aftermarket additions.
I personally put the Mazda6 in the anonymous cars category with the sedentary Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.
I'd have to say about the exact opposite...the 6 has some flare, some character...the SVT looks like a Contour with aftermarket additions.
Even with the inherent unfairness of making stylistic comparisons between a 1998-2000 model and a 2003-2004 model, I'd have to say your perception is still backwards.
Meaning no slight to non-CSVT owners, I'd say all Mystiques and non-SVT Contours (respectable cars in their own right) look like diminished versions of the CSVT.
It being the American version of the Mondeo, the CSVT is the benchmark, the Daddy.
But, Ford marketing, in its finite wisdom circa 1995, somehow came to believe it would be savvy to wade in slowly and first introduce the Contiques' various versions with ambiguously-Euro styling that was somewhat more domestic(ated), yet still suggest the "world-car" pedigree that all Contours and Mystiques certainly have. But remember, at that point, Ford Marketing had been twiddling with the world-car concept since the introduction of the Mercury Lynx ... and whatever the Ford version was called ... in 1977. So, it was too bad that, 18 years later, yet again displaying their retractable scrotums, Ford Marketing still thought it would be a smart move to bleach almost all hip, Euro styling cues out of the basic Contique design, unlike, say the Dodge Neon, the Chevy Cavalier and, when Ford finally woke up, their own Focus.
Like my brother once said, when you park a car you really love, you never accidently leave the lights on ... Because you always turn around and look at it as you're walking away.
Originally posted by Drumbo:
Even with the inherent unfairness of making stylistic comparisons between a 1998-2000 model and a 2003 model I'd have to say your perception is still backwards.
Meaning no slight to non-CSVT owners, I'd say all Mystiques and non-SVT Contours (respectable cars in their own right) look like diminished versions of the CSVT.
It being the American version of the Mondeo, the CSVT is the benchmark, the Daddy.
You do realize that contour=mondeo not CSVT=mondeo don't you? You realize most mondeos are equipped with zetecs or normal duratecs? The CSVT=ST220 or ST200, something like that. The non-SVT and non-ST contours and mondeos were first and thus are the benchmarks.
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Originally posted by Drumbo:
Even with the inherent unfairness of making stylistic comparisons between a 1998-2000 model and a 2003 model I'd have to say your perception is still backwards.
Meaning no slight to non-CSVT owners, I'd say all Mystiques and non-SVT Contours (respectable cars in their own right) look like diminished versions of the CSVT.
It being the American version of the Mondeo, the CSVT is the benchmark, the Daddy.
You do realize that contour=mondeo not CSVT=mondeo don't you? You realize most mondeos are equipped with zetecs or normal duratecs? The CSVT=ST220 or ST200, something like that. The non-SVT and non-ST contours and mondeos were first and thus are the benchmarks.
I'll realize what you said about the engines if you'll realize what I said about the styling. Even with a four-banger, the Mondeo is a sharp-looking set of wheels.
I don't see how the "Daddy" can come after the sons/daughters.
I agree with what other people say about the SVT looking like it has added on parts, but to me it looks like factory added parts (like other cars have such as corolla type-s,etc.) which is what the SVT body parts are, factory added.
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
I don't see how the "Daddy" can come after the sons/daughters. I agree with what other people say about the SVT looking like it has added on parts, but to me it looks like factory added parts (like other cars have such as corolla type-s,etc.) which is what the SVT body parts are, factory added.
Yeah, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche-Audi, hell, even VW also seem to have the same "factory add-on" problem with their styling.
Shoot, they way they all carry-on, you'd almost think it had something to do with the aerodynamics of a GT performance-car, or something.
Where did I say it was a problem? I was discussing the "daddy" CSVT and the benchmark contour... Nice way to get off track there.
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Where did I say it was a problem? I was discussing the "daddy" CSVT and the benchmark contour... Nice way to get off track there.
KTF, review the thread. It's about the styling of the car, not the engine, not the chronology of the marque, just the look of the car.
"the CSVT is the benchmark, the Daddy."
The 1995-97 Contour SE came first, and the SVT shares many parts, so it isn't like it was built in its own factory or was hand built.
Originally posted by 2000GreenTour:
"the CSVT is the benchmark, the Daddy."
The 1995-97 Contour SE came first, and the SVT shares many parts, so it isn't like it was built in its own factory or was hand built.
Yes, what you've said is correct. Completely off-topic, but correct.
Like I said to KTF ...
"Review the thread. It's about the styling of the car, not the engine, not the chronology of the marque, just the look of the car."
Wow, I seem to remember you talking about the CSVT being the benchmark and the "daddy". Even as far as styling goes this would not be correct, especially the "daddy" part. Review the thread.
i was at my work (pizza shop) and a guy comes in to get food, and starts asking "does anyone know what the 260 on the window of that car means?" im like, thats my car, and i took it to the track last night and didnt get a chance to clean the window off. then he asks if i got it all "tricked out" im like soon it will be (not giving details about the 3L swap) then he says something about a dodge and a hyundai, and hands me his business card (he works for what i believe to be the biggest dealership in the city, #1 cochran for you pittsburgh ppl, that sells practically every brand of car) now im 19, and work in a pizza shop, does it look like im tryin to buy a brand new car? i guess this guy was desperate...
i dunno about that. if i was a salesman, and a saw a car enthusiast, i'd go out of my way to impress him. when you are looking for a new car, you'll remember him cause he gave you respect, and when all your friends go to you, the car guy, asking for advice, maybe you'll drop the guy's name, he seemed nice enough, right?
like someone else mentioned earlier in this post, don't underestimate word of mouth advertising. one good recomendation from a friend is worth all the billboards in the world.
Originally posted by Drumbo:
Like my brother once said, when you park a car you really love, you never accidently leave the lights on ... Because you always turn around and look at it as you're walking away.
That's a pretty good quote. I definately take a second, third and even fourth look at my car after I get out.
Originally posted by Drumbo:
Meaning no slight to non-CSVT owners, I'd say all Mystiques and non-SVT Contours (respectable cars in their own right) look like diminished versions of the CSVT.
Meaning no slight to CSVT and second generation Contour owners, I'd say that Ford took a serious step backward in the design department when they restyled the first generation Contour. For me anyway, the racer-boy gee-whiz styling of the CSVT is an enormous liability and the overall styling of the second generation Contours was a serious mistake.
I want to like this styling, I really do, but the styling, especially the front grill and headlights of the second generation makes me cringe. My next car will be either a pristine '96 CSE with low mileage or a new Mazda 6.
I do, however, like the styling of all Mystiques - no matter what the year.
Originally posted by 96RedSE5Sp:
... the racer-boy gee-whiz styling of the CSVT is an enormous liability and the overall styling of the second generation Contours was a serious mistake.
I want to like this styling, I really do, but the styling, especially the front grill and headlights of the second generation makes me cringe. My next car will be either a pristine '96 CSE with low mileage or a new Mazda 6.
I do, however, like the styling of all Mystiques - no matter what the year.
Just goes to show, "To each, his own.". You may like the look of the new Mercedes cars, but I think its a bit pedestrian considering the modern style trends. I prefer the classic sweeping lines of a Jag.
I LOVE my 2nd gen Contour styling. I think its slick, and smooth, and "on the edge" in its time, perhaps even ahead of its time.
The SVT ... There was an article about SVTs posted here last week that talked about the ground effects being a take-off of the M3. I have heard very few critics of the M3 styling & its ground effects, as was the determination of the columns author.
Love it, hate it. It was an awsome car when introduced & I love my SE still. 
Exactly, to each his own
I didnâ??t like the 2nd generation restyle of the contour until I saw the SVT. I think the deeper air dam, sill extensions, and back bumper of the SVT combined with more aggressive wheels and dual outlet exhaust really helped balance the look of 98+ models. Otherwise, the bigger headlights and mystique-styled taillights look too bulbous and top heavy when compared to a leaner, more chiseled, 1st generation contour. I was never crazy about the 1st gen mystique.
I guess if I were to rank the best looking Contours I would go:
1: SVT
2: 1st generation SE
3: 2nd generation non-svtâ??s
imho, of course
Originally posted by ezsvt:
I prefer my svt -- if I was buying a NEW car now, it would not be a mazda 6 -- for a little more I can get a wrx (turbo and all wheel drive -- important around here) for example.
If I were buying a new car now, I'd stay away from all FoMoCo products, due to the huge quality control problems they've had over the last few years. They may be coming out of it now, but for a while there they were making even Chrysler look good, quality-wise.
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
Originally posted by 96SEMAN:
I was somewhat taken aback as was my wife so we left without even a test drive,looks like
I will have to consider going to another dealer in another city before I'd buy one from them.
If I were you I would go on the test drive, haggle with him for hours over options..waste a whole afternoon of his prime selling time..then say: "Well, the good news is I want to buy this thing. The bad news is, I don't want to buy from YOU because you dissed the Contour"...
Then pop the hood, point at the Duratec, and say "does this look familiar"..
rotflmao
Tomorrow is the big day I return to test drive the "6" and
see what he says to me this time....I better at least get
to drive the car,or he's going to be in for a fun time....
Originally posted by 96RedSE5Sp:
Originally posted by Drumbo:
Meaning no slight to non-CSVT owners, I'd say all Mystiques and non-SVT Contours (respectable cars in their own right) look like diminished versions of the CSVT.
Meaning no slight to CSVT and second generation Contour owners, I'd say that Ford took a serious step backward in the design department when they restyled the first generation Contour. For me anyway, the racer-boy gee-whiz styling of the CSVT is an enormous liability and the overall styling of the second generation Contours was a serious mistake.
I want to like this styling, I really do, but the styling, especially the front grill and headlights of the second generation makes me cringe. My next car will be either a pristine '96 CSE with low mileage or a new Mazda 6.
I do, however, like the styling of all Mystiques - no matter what the year.
Yeah, despite earlier confusion re: my comment that the CSVT's styling cues, derived from the Mondeo as they are, make it the styling "daddy" stateside, I've sometimes wondered what the EO would have looked like if its styling had leaned a bit more toward the earlier generation Contour/Mystique ... Meaning the headlights, primarily, I guess.
One thing I have noticed, though, is when viewed from an elevated angle or when the car is on an incline pointed nose-down, it's easier to see how the CSVT headlights fluidly integrate with the car's lines.
Fortunately, I still get a big enough kick in the pants when driving it and enough favorable comments about its appearance to keep me happy ... and looking back at it every time I park it.
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Wow, I seem to remember you talking about the CSVT being the benchmark and the "daddy". Even as far as styling goes this would not be correct, especially the "daddy" part. Review the thread.
No need. The (quoted) comment I replied to was about the car's styling.
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by 96RedSE5Sp:
... the racer-boy gee-whiz styling of the CSVT is an enormous liability and the overall styling of the second generation Contours was a serious mistake.
I want to like this styling, I really do, but the styling, especially the front grill and headlights of the second generation makes me cringe. My next car will be either a pristine '96 CSE with low mileage or a new Mazda 6.
I do, however, like the styling of all Mystiques - no matter what the year.
Just goes to show, "To each, his own.". You may like the look of the new Mercedes cars, but I think its a bit pedestrian considering the modern style trends. I prefer the classic sweeping lines of a Jag.
I LOVE my 2nd gen Contour styling. I think its slick, and smooth, and "on the edge" in its time, perhaps even ahead of its time.
The SVT ... There was an article about SVTs posted here last week that talked about the ground effects being a take-off of the M3. I have heard very few critics of the M3 styling & its ground effects, as was the determination of the columns author.
Love it, hate it. It was an awsome car when introduced & I love my SE still.
I saw that article a few years ago. My reaction was the same as yours.
Who knows? Maybe the writer was driving a BMW and just couldn't stand the thought of the 1998 CSVT actually coming out ahead of every 3-series Beemer BUT the M3 in so many important performance criteria. Or maybe he and the BMW PR guy had just come back from an all-expenses-paid trip to Vegas. Let's face it -- if car mag writers were subject to even minimal conflict-of-interest guidelines, many of them wouldn't have taken the gig in the first place.
Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:
Originally posted by ezsvt:
I prefer my svt -- if I was buying a NEW car now, it would not be a mazda 6 -- for a little more I can get a wrx (turbo and all wheel drive -- important around here) for example.
If I were buying a new car now, I'd stay away from all FoMoCo products, due to the huge quality control problems they've had over the last few years. They may be coming out of it now, but for a while there they were making even Chrysler look good, quality-wise.
True. But it's getting difficult to find a safe-bet these days at any price.
In a recent issue of TIME magazine (which, having just looked, I discovered I no longer have), there was a comparison of "out of every 100" late-model Buicks vs the number of late-model Mercedes that come into dealership service depts for "non-scheduled maintenence". The Buick number was somewhere in the mid-20's; Mercedes was in the mid-40's.
Not only is this is in-line with other items/murmurs I've seen/heard about persistent QC/QA problems in the Mercedes line over the last 2-3 years, it's also in-line with the experience of friends of mine who bought a 430-series (or whatever the biggest-displacement 8-cyl MB drop-top coupe was about two years ago). Over the 10-11 months they had the car, it was in the shop nearly 20 times. Problems ranged from the (really crappy -- I drove it) Triptronic transmission to the onboard navigation. Finally, after hammering on the dealership long and hard, they renegotiated the deal, gave them back the 430, and drove off with a newly-traded, same-year Lexus SC400 ... Which turned out to be a far better car -- plenty of power and everything worked ... and still does.
Finally got back to the dealer,he wouldn't let me test drive without a more firm commitment,(NOT!!) as they only had
1 manual car and it was inside the showroom,so I guess when I go out to another city this weekend I can
only hope to have more luck and maybe someone who acknowledges just how much ford is actually in
the "6"
About 1.5 years ago I went to the Mazda dealer here in Lancaster looking at 6s and 3s for my ex-gf, and by talking to me he figured out I knew something about cars. The interesting thing is that he actually KNEW something about the cars and he spent most of his time telling me how much the mazda's have in common with ford and how that was such a good thing. He knew all the platform sharing and everything. He praised the contours and focuses in fact. He didn't even mention the great fit and finish on the mazdas (which it is MUCH better than ford). If i would ever decide to buy a car at a dealership, I would definately go to this place, I was very impressed.
On the other hand, EVERY ford dealership I go to doesn't no anything about anything. They always try and make up these stupid statistics about cobra's and saleens and stuff. I don't bother respecting them or anything, I just tell them right away that they are wrong, then I tell them what the correct info is, and then I leave
Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:
Originally posted by ezsvt:
I prefer my svt -- if I was buying a NEW car now, it would not be a mazda 6 -- for a little more I can get a wrx (turbo and all wheel drive -- important around here) for example.
If I were buying a new car now, I'd stay away from all FoMoCo products, due to the huge quality control problems they've had over the last few years. They may be coming out of it now, but for a while there they were making even Chrysler look good, quality-wise.
a friend who is a mechanic at the local chrystler dealership has differing opinions on chrystler quality, not to say he doesn't like some of the cars though.
I went to a nissan dealer looking at an SER and the guy started bashing my car saying "why own an underpowered ford?", and "get a nice car, not a piece of sh!% like that."
Originally posted by Augi:
I went to a nissan dealer looking at an SER and the guy started bashing my car saying "why own an underpowered ford?", and "get a nice car, not a piece of sh!% like that."
LOL what a frickin loser, Nissan sucks
Originally posted by Marky:
Car salesman, who cares what they say?! They are not in the business because they are car enthusiasts, they work on commission. They under pressure to produce results. IMHO they don't care about cars or customers, they are concerned with the sale.
Heyhey, be carefull on what you say. I'm a car salesman (yes at 20yrs old) and I do know what i'm talking about when someone walks in and wants to buy a 300 or a Dodge SX2.0. I wont [censored] them. And aftersales service, I do my best for my clients to be happy with their purchase. Some dealers dont care about customers, but others do!
Originally posted by IanD:
Originally posted by Marky:
Car salesman, who cares what they say?! They are not in the business because they are car enthusiasts, they work on commission. They under pressure to produce results. IMHO they don't care about cars or customers, they are concerned with the sale.
Heyhey, be carefull on what you say. I'm a car salesman (yes at 20yrs old) and I do know what i'm talking about when someone walks in and wants to buy a 300 or a Dodge SX2.0. I wont [censored] them. And aftersales service, I do my best for my clients to be happy with their purchase. Some dealers dont care about customers, but others do!
Way to respond to the guy 2 years later.
Mark
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Way to respond to the guy 2 years later.
Mark
but everyone was doing it 
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by IanD:
Originally posted by Marky:
Car salesman, who cares what they say?! They are not in the business because they are car enthusiasts, they work on commission. They under pressure to produce results. IMHO they don't care about cars or customers, they are concerned with the sale.
Heyhey, be carefull on what you say. I'm a car salesman (yes at 20yrs old) and I do know what i'm talking about when someone walks in and wants to buy a 300 or a Dodge SX2.0. I wont [censored] them. And aftersales service, I do my best for my clients to be happy with their purchase. Some dealers dont care about customers, but others do!
Way to respond to the guy 2 years later.
Mark
And I was not a memeber 2 years ago
Originally posted by IanD:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by IanD:
Originally posted by Marky:
Car salesman, who cares what they say?! They are not in the business because they are car enthusiasts, they work on commission. They under pressure to produce results. IMHO they don't care about cars or customers, they are concerned with the sale.
Heyhey, be carefull on what you say. I'm a car salesman (yes at 20yrs old) and I do know what i'm talking about when someone walks in and wants to buy a 300 or a Dodge SX2.0. I wont [censored] them. And aftersales service, I do my best for my clients to be happy with their purchase. Some dealers dont care about customers, but others do!
Way to respond to the guy 2 years later.
Mark
And I was not a memeber 2 years ago
...........but i was!!!,and i am also a car salesman...
Originally posted by tour96se:
Originally posted by IanD:
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by IanD:
Originally posted by Marky:
Car salesman, who cares what they say?! They are not in the business because they are car enthusiasts, they work on commission. They under pressure to produce results. IMHO they don't care about cars or customers, they are concerned with the sale.
Heyhey, be carefull on what you say. I'm a car salesman (yes at 20yrs old) and I do know what i'm talking about when someone walks in and wants to buy a 300 or a Dodge SX2.0. I wont [censored] them. And aftersales service, I do my best for my clients to be happy with their purchase. Some dealers dont care about customers, but others do!
Way to respond to the guy 2 years later.
Mark
And I was not a memeber 2 years ago
...........but i was!!!,and i am also a car salesman...
And a clint and a president???
I knew this post looked familiar...But hey, at least you know someone here used the search feature
you think its a funny reaction from a mazda salesman, try convincing a
Jaguar salesman that its nearly identical to the contour.
it really is practically identical interior-wise and driveability-wise. in fact, if you really love your contour, go look at some 01/02 Xtype 3.0s (with loooow miles). you can get them with a manual, FULLY loaded, and with AWD!!! for about the same price as a brand new 6.
Originally posted by CodeRed18s:
Mazda dealers act as if they are so above Fords, but forget that Mazda is controlled by Dearborn. In fact there would be no Mazda 6 if it were not for FoMoCo.
Or MPV or B2000 truck for that matter.
As car people it's up to us to be informed about the new car we're interested in buying. Don't count on the salesmen. You may get a really knowledgable one(about the product), but in most cases you won't. When I buy a new car I already know everything about it before I step in to the show room. In the age of the internet how could you not?? All I want from a sales person is to make the deal with me.
My salesman knew nothing about the Sierra except for the typical "this is what makes GMC trucks better than others" sales pitch. I tell them to save it and lets talk money!! The same dealership I bought my truck at I actually walked out of last year. After I made the deal they changed the #'s around creating a higher sale price than negotiated. I walked right away from the deal!! I then complained to the sales manager and was promised that I would be well taken care of if I go back. I did go back (a year later, only because of the LARGE selection!!) and I mentioned my previous experience. THEY KISSED MY A**! I even walked away with a 5 yr 100K miles extended warranty (for free) due to my past experience! In the end I was glad I went back.
If you're a serious buyer it PAYS to talk to the sales manager.
Sounds like something that just happened to a really good friend of mine. He went to a Nissan dealership to test drive a 350z. Being 23 years old, the salesman mocked him and said that he wasn't going to let him test drive the car. Being the patient guy he is, he let the salesman talk down to him until he finally reached into his pocket to pull out the $30k Cashier's Check he had from one of his investment properties, that he was willing to put down on the new 350z. Needless to say, he called the sales manager and let him know what kind of an incompetent idiot he had working for him. You can guess what happened, the salesman told him to talk directly to him as he'd take GOOD care of him if he were to still be interested in the car.
Mark
actually since salesmanagers are the ones who put all the numbers together for the salesman...it doesnt matter who you talk to..in the end you'll get the same number, the salesmangar might make you feel better about the a$$ pounding your about to get,but thats his job,thats why he's were he is, making 80k+ a year...
Originally posted by tour96se:
actually since salesmanagers are the ones who put all the numbers together for the salesman...it doesnt matter who you talk to..in the end you'll get the same number, the salesmangar might make you feel better about the a$$ pounding your about to get,but thats his job,thats why he's were he is, making 80k+ a year...
I understand that. But the fact of the matter is, I'm more likely to be treated with a little respect from the sales manager, as opposed to some salesman that'll most likely be losing his job within the month anyway. I also feel more comfortable going straight to the top, and bypassing the BS that the typical salesman tries to throw at me. I know what I'm looking for, I don't someone to tell me what's right for me. Give me the sales manager and we'll discuss what's important, price.
Mark
Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by tour96se:
actually since salesmanagers are the ones who put all the numbers together for the salesman...it doesnt matter who you talk to..in the end you'll get the same number, the salesmangar might make you feel better about the a$$ pounding your about to get,but thats his job,thats why he's were he is, making 80k+ a year...
I understand that. But the fact of the matter is, I'm more likely to be treated with a little respect from the sales manager, as opposed to some salesman that'll most likely be losing his job within the month anyway. I also feel more comfortable going straight to the top, and bypassing the BS that the typical salesman tries to throw at me. I know what I'm looking for, I don't someone to tell me what's right for me. Give me the sales manager and we'll discuss what's important, price.
Mark
....well if you want to go straight to the top, than your missing your mark with the salesmanger...the general sales manager..and in most stores even the owner is hidden deep in the offices somewere,all of which have more power over the price than the salesmanager...besides most salesman arent fired..they jump from store to store...
also...even if you skip the salesman to get higher up,your still supporting the salesman,b/c sm dont get credit for the sale,the comm, either goes to the guy who was next up, or the guy who greeted you on the way in
That's fine. I really could care less if the guy that washes the car before I pick it up gets the commission. My point is, I don't like to d!ck with people who aren't going to work with me. If I go straight to the sales manager and they don't want to work with me, I'll go to the general sales manager, and to the owner from there if I have to. I know that the salesman doesn't have the authority in most cases to haggle price, so I go to someone who can. If that person can't get me where I want to be, then I'll go to the next person up the ladder and so forth. If I still can't get it, then it's not that important to me. I'll wait for them to call me back and tell me they can't get rid of item "X", and that they'll come down to the price they should have come down to in the first place.
Mark
if only sales really worked that way
Originally posted by tour96se:
if only sales really worked that way
I understand how sales works. And I'm not talking specifically about automotive sales. It has to do with sales as a general. If I know a price is negotiable, you better believe I'm going to talk you down. If you aren't willing to meet my price, then you won't make the sale, plain and simple. Only I know what I want to spend. If your bottom dollar doesn't agree with what I'm willing to spend, then that's the end of it. And I've had sales managers at different levels of retail, call me and state that they would be willing to come down to my offered price, after everyone in their store has told me no. It's all a game, and it's just a matter of who will break.
Mark
mmmmmmmmmmm...maybe...i've had plenty of salesmanagers say no to customers...their theroy? why only make 1500.00 on this guy, when we MIGHT be able to make 3100.00 on the next person...alot of owner or managers are more than willing to take that chance........generally when they "break" your not getting that good of a deal is all that i am selling, NO BODY is going to sell something were they break even,or make say 500.00, unless its a pile,they stole it from the customer........anyways mark this is getting dumb...i understand your point
The most important thing to remember in any negotiation is that "he who cares the least wins". If you like the way things are going down, walk. You will seldom if ever do worse when you return, and you may end up doing much better.
That should read "if you don't like the way things are going down, walk".
