Why does Ford Paint SUCK?

Originally posted by cliffjohnson:

Originally posted by freakshow:
Isn't the warranty on ford's paint good for 6 years?

anyone know anything about this? if so and it's true, i'm going to see what i can do b/c the black paint on my car is frickin horrible. i too have the spider cracks and sh*t everywhere.

No, the only way it would be covered is if it rusted through. Even then its only for 5 years if I recall correctly.

Anything deemed to be caused by "environmental" factors is never really covered although the warranty literature seems to indicate they would cover it for 12,000 miles or 12 months.

SOL

My black 98 SVT has this also; only along the areas where the sun shines on the car. I don't know how many people have this problem, but it seems like alot.

Class Action???

I'm getting spider cracks on my hood trunk and roof on my black 99svt. I keep my car IMMACULATE but somehow i ge stone chips on the side of my doors. This honestly has to be the worst factory paint job i've ever had.

If you do a search on paint defects you should get all the data you need. To sum things up,

Most of the dark color tours and mysts built in the KC plant have spider cracks on the hood and other places where it gets hot. IT IS NOT AND NEAVER CAN BE BLAMED ON ACID RAIN UFOS OR DRIVING HABITS. It happens because the paint is applied too thick (A FACTOR DEFECT) and thick paint can�??t flex with the changes in temperature. So it cracks, or in paint shop terms �??checks�?�. Some people have been able to get parts of their cars repainted (if under 3-36k warrantee) but most have been handed the Acid rain line and sent on their way.

Class Action�?�. Forget about it, Ford lives for that. I tried it. All I do now is show everyone the great Quality Job One paint job, smile, and point to my wife�??s shinny new Subaru (it could have been a Ford for want of a little paint).

jeff

Well, if it was Acid Rain or ANYTHING else besides a SHODDY paint job then the cracking would not be ocurring UNDER the clearcoat.

Another black SVT with a pathetic paint job here too. Mine is actually too THIN in areas! Like, the core support and most under-hood areas, inside door openings, the door handle cut-outs on at least the driver's side, and several other places. I also have the cracking thing happening on at least the horizontal surfaces. I have good-sized chunks of paint gone (~1/4-3/8, possible larger) from the lower door panels from, I'm assuming, rock chips. Small little nicks I could see, but friggin' rock chunks?!?. Gimme a break. This has to be one of the sorriest factory paint jobs.

Marty

And I alwasy thought it was just me...glad (sort of) that I'm not the only one.

My understanding is Ford, Chevy, and Dodge are all using the same paint, primarily DuPont. I don't know if thats who they were using back in 1998, but blame the paint manufacture, not ford.

Originally posted by BURNTU2:
My understanding is Ford, Chevy, and Dodge are all using the same paint, primarily DuPont. I don't know if thats who they were using back in 1998, but blame the paint manufacture, not ford.

I'm not so sure on that. I've only heard of SVT's doing it.

Also keep in mind that black (the color with all colors in it), absorbs the most light energy from the sun's rays, therefore it gets the hottest in the sun. Therefore it will be more suseptable to damage than any other color when exposed to the same amount of UV radiation. Also factor in that we've been destroying the atmosphere more in these last 2 decades than any other time before in existance, and you can see why it's so tough to make a cost effective paint and application technique that can withstand more than a few years of this UV exposure and still look good. Ford REALLY only cares about if the car's condition makes it through warrantee. Anything beyond that and they figure it's all on you now

ProudSVT

I hate to burst your blue oval but it�??s not Dupont�??s paint or the paint itself that�??s bad. It�??s that the paint was Applied too thick at the Factory that causes it to crack. The inability of the paint to flex with changes in temperature causes the cracks. This is the blame of Ford not anything or anyone else.

jeff

OK i just repainted my car and i phiscaly did all the prep work. I cam e to find out that the reason it spider cracks is not because of the paint, but because of the clear coat, for, my car, ford used too little and its also possible they used too much hardner to cause the clear coat to dry to fast. Which in turn it did not set right so the heat from the engine causes the paint underneath to spider crack.

After i preped it i took it to my friends shop, and they confirmed how thin the clear coat was. I left the hood un sanded and had them sand it. in the area about 4 to 5 inchs fomr the left and right edges of the hood in 20 seconds of sanding we were talking off paint. In the middle of the hood it took 2 pads to get throught the clear coat. and this was 400 grit sand paper the thinest to use.

So it really has to do with the clear coat, Becasue in the areas it took the least to go throught the coat it was spider cracking on my car.

Roz

Originally posted by BURNTU2:
My understanding is Ford, Chevy, and Dodge are all using the same paint, primarily DuPont. I don't know if thats who they were using back in 1998, but blame the paint manufacture, not ford.

There are 3 major paint companies, PPG, BASF and DuPont. I can't speak for Ford or GM, but the largest supplier to the Chrysler is PPG by far (9 of 13 plants in N. America).

As for who is to blame for film builds (paint thickness): it is a combination of the corporate materials, the paint company and the assembly plant. The paint company defines ranges of acceptable film builds based on certain criteria. The materials group dictates to the assembly plants what the film builds should be. Then the plant is responsible for applying that amount. Without knowing what the specifications are for the film builds, it is tough to place blame.

As for me, my car does not have any cracking but it does have a record number of paint chips in the hood. The next new car I buy better have a powder coat primer.

The fact remains that my car was only two years old when the paint started cracking. Ford flatly refused to even offer to split the cost with me because the car had 39k miles. So you can blame who you want for the bad paint job, but Ford can only blame themselves for poor customer satisfaction and declining sales. Just look at my shiny new Subaru and the fact that I won�??t even look at a Ford product to replace the Myst. As much as I wanted a new Mach 1 I�??ll pick an RSX-S- instead.

jeff

Is this the problem we are all speaking of? This, as you can see is T-Red, '98 48K. Hood, roof, trunk lid.
Once I really started looking at these spots I started noticing more spots.

Originally posted by ChriSVT:
Is this the problem we are all speaking of? This, as you can see is T-Red, '98 48K. Hood, roof, trunk lid.
Once I really started looking at these spots I started noticing more spots.

Looks like a bad case of SVT herpes to me.

Yet another black svt with a horrible paint job. Even worse is when they repainted my back passenger-side door they painted right over the ding guards which left a ugly stripe when I took them off.

ChriSVT, yeah that is what I am talking about. It is Almost that bad on ALL the horizontal surfaces of my car.

You guys must abuse your paint, because I didn't wax until maybe 2000 (which means I bought the car new in June '97, so like 3 years) and it was garaged throughout it's time course, and I have NONE of those problems. My hood has some chips from the drive down from MI to TX, I have a handful of scratches and some chips on the bumper from having POS Ford repaint it (what a joke, it chipped in the first month). . .

Is there any OTHER paint we can repaint our cars with besides Dupont?? How about Audi or BMW paint, I heard they were top notch??

I think the spider cracks are black specific. Which is a shame because it's the nicest color on SVTs. Mine is Amazon Green which is dark as well but paint looks good (except scuffs on rear bumpers - my fault). Have not seen a bad green or silver.

Originally posted by ssmumich00:
Is there any OTHER paint we can repaint our cars with besides Dupont?? How about Audi or BMW paint, I heard they were top notch??

It's not necessarily the fault of the paint (see my post above). The general cause of checking/cracking is excessive basecoat film builds (paint thickness). The desired film build is influenced by multiple parties.

Also, Audi and BMW use the same brands of paint as everyone else. But being more exlcusive brands attuned to the desires of the customer, they tend to use the best of what the paint suppliers have. Also they don't skimp on material usage. Although I can't say for sure, I would guess they scrap a larger portion of their cars at the assembly plant for paint problems due to strict quality control guidelines.

Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
I think the spider cracks are black specific

FYI- Look about five posts above yours. See that big red picture? lol

No, it is not abuse, and it is not just black. It seems to be most dark cars built in KC. A friend of mine purchased a black LS from the same dealer about one moth after me. He lived in an apartment and never washed his car. My car Dark Satin Green was washed and waxed regularly. My car developed cracks and his didn�??t. The difference? His was built in Mexico and mine in KC.

I tried to put together a class action and even got names of other owners with cracking. The one thing all the cars had in common? All dark colors built in KC.

ssmumich00, check your assembly plant, I don�??t see the proudly built in KC sticker on your windshield.

jeff

Mercman, what happened to the Class Action? I would be willing to participate or even lead the action.

Mercman is right - my 98 SE is dark green, and was built in KC, and is spidering bad. I love my Contour, except for the crappy paint. In addition to the spidering on the hood, roof, and trunklid, I now have paint peeling on the rear bumper behind the wheels. Since I bought the car used, I do not know the car's repair history, so I'm not sure if I can blame Ford for that. Since we're on the subject - how much should a complete paint job cost if needed?

A complete paint job is about $4k here in NY. As far as the class action, I could not find a NY lawyer willing to take on Ford. We have nothing but slip and fall guys around here. So unless I got hurt from the bad paint job, forget it.

I would still like to get Ford to at least paint my hood and roof, perhaps a lawyer from another state would be willing to take our case?

jeff

Mine sucks also and I take very good care of it. I asked my dealer about the cracks and they blamed it on me and I quote "you probably drove through something on the road and thats why your paint is cracking. I laughed and left

this is a MAJOR problem with '94ish ford probes, There is actually a petition with a couple thousand names on one of the probe boards. But its FORD, they only care if 65% of us are happy. Thats why I swear Im on my last Ford vehicle.

My black 96 is starting to have a single spider crack on the rear of the roof, i expect it to spread rather quickly now. I have seen alot of black fords with horrible top side paint.

Originally posted by ProudSVT:
I'm not so sure on that. I've only heard of SVT's doing it.

ProudSVT,

I've got a 1998.5 SE Sport with the same defect in the paint.
Spider cracks in the hood, roof and trunk.
The cracked paint is actually starting to 'lift up' and'curl'.
nossvtcontour has a Red 1995 SE with spider cracks in his paint also.

The next time I go into my FORD Dealer for service, I am going to bring this to their attention.
They know how I take care of my car, and they know that the car ALWAYS comes in clean for service.

We'll see what the FORD REGIONAL SERVICE MANAGER has to say about this.

Mamisano,

I'm with you on the Class Action Lawsuit.
We just need to find a lawyer who in interested in representing us.
This will be a major case.

yeah and yet another 1998 black svt owner pissed off about my paint, yeah the preveous owner must have lived on a dirt and rock road cause the rock guards are all chipped up but the hood,roof,and trunk are shi**y. i am going to price and see how much the cheapest black metalic paint job is, so i dont have to pay big money and change the color and pull the engine so everything matches. that may work. also 1996-1998 ford had alot of toxin problems in thier paint. i had a 1997 contour off the showroom and 6 months later brought it back cause the paint was chipping, they re-painted the entire car for me **free* and gave me a mustang gt for those 2 weeks to drive, then again thats alaksa for ya.

ryan

Originally posted by ryanblacksvt:
yeah and yet another 1998 black svt owner pissed off about my paint, yeah the preveous owner must have lived on a dirt and rock road cause the rock guards are all chipped up but the hood,roof,and trunk are shi**y. i am going to price and see how much the cheapest black metalic paint job is, so i dont have to pay big money and change the color and pull the engine so everything matches. that may work. also 1996-1998 ford had alot of toxin problems in thier paint. i had a 1997 contour off the showroom and 6 months later brought it back cause the paint was chipping, they re-painted the entire car for me **free* and gave me a mustang gt for those 2 weeks to drive, then again thats alaksa for ya.

ryan

Depending how bad they have to sand to get the paint chips out, 3000-5000$ is what your looking at....majority is labor....it takes so much time to sand a car down properly.

Roz

ohh i didnt know that, i thought they pretty much scratched up the top layer so the new paint would stick and painted it, thats probly what macco does hu?

ryan

Just noticed my 98 with spiders on the roof! I hate eastern roads. My bumper and hood have over 100 stone chips in it. I've got places where the paint is raised but I'm thinking it could be touch up paint done badly.

Damn, me too. Although, I noticed it the very first sunny day I owned it. Bought it on a rainy week. I will jump in the class action suit, if anybody really takes the bull by the horns. That would be funny actually, a bunch of pissed dark car owners sueing Ford. At least we're not bringing them tires with no tread.

it has always been a problem

Ford Paint Service Bulletin

Article No. 93-8-4
April 14,1993
PAINT - EXTERIOR CLEARCOAT "MICROCHECKING" HAZING OR PEELING

FORD:

1983-93 THUNDERBIRD
1984-93 TEMPO
1985-93 ESCORT
1986 LTD
1986-93 TAURUS
1989-93 CROWN VICTORIA, MUSTANG, PROBE

LINCOLN-MERCURY:

1983-93 COUGAR
1984-92 MARK VII
1984-93 TOPAZ
1985-89 TRACER
1986 MARQUIS
1986-93 SABLE
1988-93 CONTINENTAL, TOWN CAR
1989-93 GRAND MARQUIS
1991 -93 TRACER
1993 MARK VIII

LIGHT TRUCK:

1983-93 RANGER
1986-93 AEROSTAR
1987-90 BRONCO II
1988-93 F SUPER DUTY, F-47
1991 -93 ECONOLINE, EXPLORER
1992-93 F-150 -350 SERIES
1993 VILLAGER

ISSUE:

The clearcoat layer of the basecoat/clearcoat paint system may "microcheck" (crack and erode), turn white, flake or peel off the vehicle. This condition is noticeable on the horizontal surfaces only.

ford might repaint for free if you ask nicely

It's not just what you say, but how you say it...
Making a successful complaint against an automaker is like preparing a good case in court: you need to have all your facts in order before you start, and then make your points in an organized, convincing way. Here's what I've learned in thirty years of consumer advocacy about how to make sure your complaint gets results:

Getting a paint/defect settlement

The following settlement advice works not only for paint defects but for any other vehicle defect you believe is the automaker's/dealer's responsibility. If you're not sure if the problem is a factory-related deficiency or a maintenance item, have it checked out by an independent garage.

1. If you know the problem is factory-related, take your vehicle to the dealer and ask for a written, signed estimate. When handed the estimate ask that the paint job be done for free under the manufacturer's "goodwill" program (Ford's euphemism for this secret warranty is "Owner Dialogue Program; GM's term is "Special Policy," and Chrysler just calls it "goodwill." Don't use the term secret warranty, yet.)

2. Your verbal request will probably be met with a refusal, or an offer to repaint the vehicle for half the cost, or, if you're lucky, an agreement to repaint the vehicle free of charge. If you accept half-cost, make sure it's based on the original estimate you have in hand, since some dealers jack up their estimates so that your 50 percent is really 100 percent of the true cost.

3. If the dealer or automaker has already refused your verbal claim, and the repair hasn't been done yet, get an additional estimate from an independent garage that shows the problem is factory-related.

4. Now, send a registered claim letter or fax to the automaker (copy the dealer) claiming the average of both estimates. If the repair has been done at your expense, send a registered claim letter or fax with a copy of your bill. A sample claim letter or fax you can use is on this website.

5. If a satisfactory response isn't received within five days, deposit a copy of the estimate or paid bill, any photos you may have (photos of paint defects are excellent proof) and your letter or fax before the small claims court and await a trial date. This means that the automaker and dealer will have to file a defense and appear at mediation or await a trial date.

No lawyer is required, costs should be minimal (under $100), and a mediation hearing or trial will likely be scheduled in a few months. Most cases or settled for two-thirds to three-quarters of the claim at the mediation stage. A trial and judgment will follow a few months later if the claim isn't resolved through mediation (time varies among different regions).

Again, evidence that will help your case: pictures, maintenance work orders, previous work orders dealing with your problem, dealer service bulletins, and an independent expert (the garage or body shop that prepared your estimate or did the repair). Citing the two court judgments based on English common law found on this website will also be helpful.

Other Situations

If the vehicle has just been repainted but the dealer says "goodwill" coverage was denied by the automaker, pay for the repair with a certified cheque and write "under protest" on the cheque. Remember, though, that if the dealer does the repair you won't have an independent expert who can affirm that the problem was factory-related or that it was a result of premature wear-out. Plus, the dealer can say you or the environment (bird droppings is a frequently-used defense) caused the breakdown.

If the dealer/automaker offers a partial repair or refund, take it. Then sue for the rest. Remember, if a partial repair has been done under warranty it counts as an admission of responsibility—no matter what "goodwill" euphemism is used. Also, the repaired component/body panel should be just as durable as if it were new. Hence, the clock starts ticking again, no matter what the dealer's repair warranty limit says.

Send a reminder to the dealer or automaker that you expect the repair to last a reasonable period of time. File a copy away in your glove compartment and bring it out if the same problem reappears.

Conclusion

Very seldom do automakers contest paint claims before small claims court, opting instead to settle once the court claim is bounced from their customer relations people to Legal Affairs. If you do have to go to court, stand fast and contest the unfair nature of this "secret warranty" program (automaker lawyers cringe at the idea of trying to explain why consumers aren't made aware of these programs)..