Rant and thoughts: CSVT or BMW 3-Series

This is one of those "just thinking" kind of posts made at 2 AM when one gets dreamy. Reader beware

While having more problems with my Probe (untrustworthy acceleration now forcing me to not drive it, hopefully just a bad cat or fuel filter, possibly more, plus I am replacing the brakes this weekend as well), and also having driven my cousin's '03 BMW 325xi again today, I am lost in a confusing warp. Sell my car or keep it. If sell, get a CSVT or an older (much older) 3-series BMW 318 or 325 sedan with 5-speed. If keeping the PGT, fix it and still be generally unhappy.

I want to love my car, but it's just not happening. I've only had it since November, but with all its problems, big and small, plus the fact that it's a coupe and can't comfortably nor legally seat five adults (I transport my friends a LOT) nor satisfy me in general. In addition, its general lack of options are beginning to annoy me - power locks and windows I have now found are a necessity in any car I own. Frivelous, I know, but that's me.

I have always had a love for the CSVT, particularly the E0, but with prices dropping so low nowadays, I could even find an older '92 or '93 BMW for around the same price. Plus, having driven one today, I am slightly glaze-eyed and becoming ever more partial toward this option. Mileage doesn't scare me, nor does age deter me.

Of the CSVT or BMW, which car would be more reliable? Which is cheaper for insurance?

Which would feel more fun to drive in? I must admit the solidness of the BMW still startles and pleases me, but at the same time I want the overall exclusivity and "standard-options" of the SVT.

If I were to get another car I would like to budget $6000, and that car would be either a CSVT or BMW. Being a college student with limited funds and no money right now, I would have to go without a car for nearly a year to save up for another. (Having no insurance and car bills would certainly help; most of my paycheck currently goes to support the Probe). This is feasable; I'll be living on campus and can get a job at the grocery down the street (working 20 minutes away from campus currently), but I tried this very thing last year and only lasted three months before I made a rash decision and got the Probe. So there is also a possibility of insanity if I have no wheels nearby.

Here is the part where you get to chime in: Which route would you recommend I take, if I were to take any?

Nothing may happen of this, but as time goes on and repairs become more frequent, I am quickly getting tired of the PGT.

EDIT: This is an example of THE kind of BMW I would like. Green, 92, high mileage, 5-speed 325i sedan on eBay for $6K.

Originally posted by MarkO:
Really seriously, have you thought about a regular Duratec ? They seem to be very cheap and should be in reasonable supply. $6k should get you a nice newer one without all the headaches you're facing now.

BTW, do you go to QCC ??

I am interested in the E0 SVTs. By the year 2004, if I take a year to save up, they will be six or seven years old, and hopefully better deals will be available. I have also considered and will look at the Duratec/MTX as you suggest (hopefully with keyless entry and a sunroof, lol ). It would definitely be a sensible choice.

I was considering the BMW as well for its reliability; from what I've noticed at school, the 90s and even the 80s models are still in decent condition. (Unless I'm totally off base here in which case somebody tell me!

)

I actually go to WPI, and love nearly everything about it. I can't wait till next month when we go back and I can see all my friends again without having to travel out of state!

Have you looked into an late 80's early 90's 325 or 318? These can be had pretty cheap and still look good IMO. I did a quick search on autotrader and found a whole bunch of them in the 3k range. check these out Click Here

Later - Joe

The key issue here is that you are a college student with negligible income. If you are going to pursue another car, just get something that is very reliable and gets good fuel economy. Thus, look only for a used Honda or Toyota. Don't let your impulsiveness get the better of you. Wait until you get out of college and get a decent paying job (at least hopefully given current economic trends).

One of the issues that is unclear is "How is college being paid for right now?" If you are running-up debt via financing, definitely don't get impulsive on cars. When you get out of school, if the job market is tough, you will want a cash cushion to handle paying back the financed tuition. Don't ever default on debt!

Dave Keller
1995 Contour SE
1999 Contour SVT

Start saving your money now. You've got a year before you'll reach your goal and your mind and circumstances may well change before then. By the time you get ready an E0 may be in the $6,000 - $7,500 range and keeping a sharp eye on the CEG classifieds and other sources may get you one.

Don't compare an '03 BMW to a '92. They are a world apart. Not so much because there have been significant changes but more because the '92 will have 12 to 13 years of wear and tear on it.

Regarding quality, I don't think there's as big a difference as myth would have you believe. If you compare a $6,000 BMW with a $6,000 Contour SE 2.5L you shouldn't have any trouble picking the SE. If you look at Edmunds they list:

1992 BMW 3 Series at:
Price - $5,217 - $9,889
Consumer Satisfaction - 7.6
JD Power Mechanical Quality - 3/5
Crash Test Passgr/Driver - N/A / N/A

1998 Ford Contour at:
Price - $4,275 - $9,765
Consumer Satisfaction - 8.0
JD Power Mechanical Quality - 3/5
Crash Test Passgr/Driver - Good/Excellent

Regarding which will be less expensive to insure, that depends on several factors, many that are specific to you. Your best bet is to call your auto ins. agent and get the figures.

Expense of ownership is no contest. The BMW will kill you. Price out the cost of an exhaust, a set of struts, and full set of four brake calipers and rotors for both (don't even need to look at the differences in allowable shop times for their instillation). These are all normal wear items (except the Ford exhaust - it's stainless steel).

Road & Track magazine did a road test of the E0 in their July 1997 issue on page 90. I've got a copy, somewhere, if you'd like me to scan it. They compared it to the '97 BMW 318 and they said it was a strong contender with either one being a good choice. The 318 had better steering feedback but wayyyy less power (168? vs 195) and nowhere near the creature comforts. They obviously would have picked the '97 SVT over a '92 318 in a heartbeat. Good luck

Regards, Alan

I was a college student, my daughter is NOW a college student. Here is what I suggested for her, & what I would suggest for you:

Forget the BMW. They'll be 12 years old, & the first time you need to buy a radiator ($400), tranny coolant hose ($130), or a drive shaft ($700), you'll be really sorry.

Forget the SVT. For that kind of money, you won't really know what you're getting into.

If you're willing to put up with a few quirks & problems of the Contiques, get plain-Jane & mod once in a while.

For my daughter, we went the reliability route with an Escort ZX-2. If you want more passenger room, pick up a sedan or wagon. These cars will serve you well & you can get a 2000 with less than 30,000 miles for about $5000 - in many cases less than that. WAY less than a Japanese car. WAY less expensive than a BMW.

Boring, you say. You driven a properly modded Ztec lately?

Thanks guys for your replies. As fun as it would be to own a BMW now, I can wait till I'm older, out of college, and able to afford a more decent one. I am thinking more toward a regular Contique (V6/MTX) now, but will not put the SVT idea away yet.

Thanks for all the other suggestions, but I am not considering any other cars. I think the Contique will be the most lively and attainable of anything I could afford, when considering handling (my most important attribute to a car) . Also, once I do get a car, I do not plan on "modding" the engine or suspension. It will remain for the most part stock.

Now just to fix up the Probe enough to sell it...

i'd get a v6/mtx too (maybe im biased cause i got one?) but they are really nice, and you'll save some cash over the svt.

Originally posted by 98 SE:

I am interested in the E0 SVTs. By the year 2004, if I take a year to save up, they will be six or seven years old, and hopefully better deals will be available. I have also considered and will look at the Duratec/MTX as you suggest (hopefully with keyless entry and a sunroof, lol ). It would definitely be a sensible choice.

you should come down my way, we always seem to find then around here, and the kicker is the one I just got came from NH anyway...

I to would like a SVT but that can be in the future, and a BMW after that in the future.

I have to agree but the whole point now is to have a reliable car for college. I think why my parents decided to get the four contour was so I might have something when my Mystque does go, since I had to put some money into it recently and I am in fairly uncharted areas closing in on 120k. So I see it as having to great, and fun reliable cars to have for the next few years.

If I have my way I will never get rid of them

oh yeah, also someone else said it, repair costs, the BMW will be crazy and the Contour, with good know how you can fix yourself for much less

Originally posted by TourDeForce:
........Forget the BMW. They'll be 12 years old, & the first time you need to buy a radiator ($400), tranny coolant hose ($130), or a drive shaft ($700), you'll be really sorry........

Thats an excellent point, it may be a $6k car now but the parts/service depts still treat them as they are a $30k car. It's great if you can do all your own work but thats the minority of us.

I had a BMW 325E for 15 years and 251,000 miles before I got my '99 Mystique. I loved the BMW and intend to get one again sometime in the future. My BWM ran and looked like new, even with a quarter million miles on it. But everytime I took it into the dealer with a problem, I resigned myself to spending between $500 to $750, even for regular maintenance issues. Fortunately, it needed very little in all those miles....still had the original clutch, hoses, etc.

If you live in the snow belt, BWM's are rear wheel drive and very poor on slick roads. I had to buy a 4WD vehicle for those months the BWM was too dangerous to drive on the highway.

If you do your own work, most parts stores don't have a lot of BMW parts, so you'll have to visit the dealer's parts department for anything more than oil filters or spark plugs. Working on it was easier than the Mystique...the inline six left a LOT of room under the hood. I could change the oil filter from above, which is rare nowadays.

I agree with some of the other guys here...if you're in college and money is tight, buy something reliable now, like a Honda or Toyota. BWM's are great cars, but if you can't afford to take care of them like they deserve, they'll break down just like anything else.

Originally posted by MarkO:

Originally posted by TourDeForce:
........Forget the BMW. They'll be 12 years old, & the first time you need to buy a radiator ($400), tranny coolant hose ($130), or a drive shaft ($700), you'll be really sorry........

Thats an excellent point, it may be a $6k car now but the parts/service depts still treat them as they are a $30k car. It's great if you can do all your own work but thats the minority of us.

Those quotes are for the parts only! I just replaced the drive shaft for my 1986 325e a few months ago, $690 for the driveshaft & the U-joints CANNOT be replaced separately on these units like you can do on an American car. A freakin' tune-up on a BMW will cost about $1200 if the dealer is willing to treat you nice.

In Mass, for safety reasons, you really are better off in a FWD car. My 'tour with snow tires can handle almost any weather condition securely and safely.

Originally posted by 96RedSE5Sp:
In Mass, for safety reasons, you really are better off in a FWD car. My 'tour with snow tires can handle almost any weather condition securely and safely.

RWD is NOT unsafe in the snow! You all are a bunch of no-ability sissies if you say otherwise! I drove a Miata with good snow tires for 2 Buffalo winters and never had a problem, and passed many a sport-ute off in a ditch in that time. So long as you have GOOD SNOW TIRES, which you ought to have with any car in a snowy area, RWD is as safe as FWD. </rant>

As far as BMW vs. CSVT, the BWM will not necessarily cost more in parts or service, especially if you're doing work yourself. There's a number of mail-order places where parts are very reasonably priced. The insurance on the BWM will likely be higher, but you need to contact your agent to see for sure. As for a quarter-million miles on the 325e, first of all inline-6's are bulletproof generally, and second the eta motor was about the lowest-stressed motor ever made. Redlined at what, 5k? If I never pushed my car over 5k I'd get a quarter-million miles too. As for the other stuff on the car, there's something to be said for German engineering and build quailty - built to last.

Scott

I actually made the switch from a 1988 BMW 535i over to a 99 Contour SE Sport. Granted, I gave up some luxury items, like the onboard computer, rwd, and 8 way power seats, I got peace of mind, and never having to worry about replacement parts. I had to do a radiator and fan clutch on the BMW ($540), brake pads ($80), but when the front end got the dreaded shimmy, the air went out, the brake bomb went, and I realized that the car would need work after that, I decided to cut my losses, and go with the Contour. BMWs are nice, but unless they have been cared for, they're not worth the hassle and expense. When they have been cared for, you pay a premium for it. I had $5k to spend on a car, and weighed the options, a 92 bmw with over 100k, or a 99 Contour with 46k. I chose the Contour, figuring that parts would be cheaper, it's an american car after all, the folks at the salvage yards won't give me attitude - quite the problem with going to a salvage yard and asking if they have parts. Though, we also have the Ford owned salvage yards here in Tampa, so used contour parts aren't too hard to come by. That's just my $.02.

- Ian in Tampa
99 SE Sport 5spd 48k