Probes? - CEG Archives

Todd can we use the SHO 3.0L engine in our 3.0L swaps?

Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Todd can we use the SHO 3.0L engine in our 3.0L swaps?

Gee, i heard a rumor that the Ford Windstars 3L is the one everyone has been using.

Originally posted by SVT Driver627:

Originally posted by todras:
Why does this come up every 3 weeks? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Completely different. Search newbie!!!!!

Well i wan't quite sure, didn't think of searching, got an instant result didn't I? and todras, i'm not quite a newbie, jsut somewhat ignorant on ocassion

You're sure acting like a newbie right now ... getting defensive over someone telling you to search ... not bothering to search in the first place ...

Had you bothered to search, you could find your answer AND some more detailed information as to WHY it's different.

Originally posted by 98 SE:

Originally posted by SVT Driver627:

Originally posted by todras:
Why does this come up every 3 weeks? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Completely different. Search newbie!!!!!

Well i wan't quite sure, didn't think of searching, got an instant result didn't I? and todras, i'm not quite a newbie, jsut somewhat ignorant on ocassion

You're sure acting like a newbie right now ... getting defensive over someone telling you to search ... not bothering to search in the first place ...

Had you bothered to search, you could find your answer AND some more detailed information as to WHY it's different.

he didnt get defensive at all. idk what you're talknig about, defensive???

(mick jaggar accent) WHY ARE WE FIGHTING AND WHAT FOR?

nerdfest2k5

Originally posted by tourifik:
nerdfest2k5

omg 2 funny

Wesley

why is searching so much better than answering the question? no one forces anyone to reply

because it gives people something to complain about

Originally posted by 98 SE:

Originally posted by SVT Driver627:

Originally posted by todras:
Why does this come up every 3 weeks? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Completely different. Search newbie!!!!!

Well i wan't quite sure, didn't think of searching, got an instant result didn't I? and todras, i'm not quite a newbie, jsut somewhat ignorant on ocassion

You're sure acting like a newbie right now ... getting defensive over someone telling you to search ... not bothering to search in the first place ...

Had you bothered to search, you could find your answer AND some more detailed information as to WHY it's different.

honestly... shut up? ---

everyone knows that searching requires so much more time and searching to do... when you ask, someone responds quickly and your question is answered... you for one, are acting like a 'noob' because your being the most un-helpful of all because he had a simple question... people like you make people not want to ask questions/get help because you act like an @a$s at simple questions....

grow up... be nice... help when needed.. jesus

Originally posted by judis:

grow up... be nice... help when needed.. jesus

Is your name Jesus, or are you cursing?

Just wondering...

I just want to chime in on this...

I think for newbie's the search feature is a good thing to use. but all of the senior members of the forum shouldnt be so hard on them. When they ask a question, the senior members should answer it for them to help them out. after all thats what this board is for, helping each other out. Along with your answer to their question, just add that the search funstion is availableand you might find more information by using it. Lets help each other out here guys(and girls).

Originally posted by 98 SE:

Originally posted by SVT Driver627:

Originally posted by todras:
Why does this come up every 3 weeks? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Completely different. Search newbie!!!!!

Well i wan't quite sure, didn't think of searching, got an instant result didn't I? and todras, i'm not quite a newbie, jsut somewhat ignorant on ocassion

You're sure acting like a newbie right now ... getting defensive over someone telling you to search ... not bothering to search in the first place ...

Had you bothered to search, you could find your answer AND some more detailed information as to WHY it's different.

Well the 2.5 in the probe is a mazda spec motor. We just incorporated into our ford cars after we bought 90% of mazda's stock. Doing so we have been capable of using mazda engines and there copyrights. Since than we took there technology and transformed it into what we have now a duretec. Therefore americans took japanese equipment and just transformed it to our likings. Everything practically is different. It just kinda looks like ours. Also remmber the 1994 ford escort gt, yup that was mazda spec also!!

For everyone else who just replies you are being insuborbanent!! The rules on this site, and you not being a newbie should know this. IS If a questions has been posted before and is a repost please do not flame, I the Coordinator do not want to baby sit you guys from attacking the newbies. Please refrain from atacking others. If you are not to add to the converstion do not add any remakes at all.

So who on this post attacked SvtDriver?? obviously does not know post rules.

Originally posted by Mkingracing:

Originally posted by 98 SE:

Originally posted by SVT Driver627:

Originally posted by todras:
Why does this come up every 3 weeks? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Completely different. Search newbie!!!!!

Well i wan't quite sure, didn't think of searching, got an instant result didn't I? and todras, i'm not quite a newbie, jsut somewhat ignorant on ocassion

You're sure acting like a newbie right now ... getting defensive over someone telling you to search ... not bothering to search in the first place ...

Had you bothered to search, you could find your answer AND some more detailed information as to WHY it's different.

Well the 2.5 in the probe is a mazda spec motor. We just incorporated into our ford cars after we bought 90% of mazda's stock. Doing so we have been capable of using mazda engines and there copyrights. Since than we took there technology and transformed it into what we have now a duretec. Therefore americans took japanese equipment and just transformed it to our likings. Everything practically is different. It just kinda looks like ours. Also remmber the 1994 ford escort gt, yup that was mazda spec also!!

For everyone else who just replies you are being insuborbanent!! The rules on this site, and you not being a newbie should know this. IS If a questions has been posted before and is a repost please do not flame, I the Coordinator do not want to baby sit you guys from attacking the newbies. Please refrain from atacking others. If you are not to add to the converstion do not add any remakes at all.

So who on this post attacked SvtDriver?? obviously does not know post rules.

so then you are saying that our 2.5 is evloved from their 2.5? so then porsche designed the engine for mazda, not ford?

I had a nice long post defending myself, but decided to scrap it in favor of one sentence that sums up everything.

SVTDriver is NOT a newbie.

All of my other reasons basically boiled down to that one fact. That is why I flamed.

Mking, please direct me to what number rule that is in the forum guidelines/rules. I don't see it. I'll let others flame you for your other misinformation.

Everybody says search, search, search but I have found that if you don't get the exact phrase you get a negative return. That gets frustrating after a while, you put in a word or phrase that you feel describes what you are looking for and braaaaap, no dice.

So please don't be in such a hurry to slap someones pee-pee in the dirt cause they didn't search. They might have searched but didn't use the right "secret" word.

But seriously is it that hard to search the archives? Anything you would want to know about your car is in there. I guess for me i don't find it to hard to search thru the archives, but i guess i'm different. Maybe lance should just get rid of the archives and the search feature from the site, that would justify everyone for not searching. I can finally see where the site is going.

Originally posted by 98 SE:

Mking, please direct me to what number rule that is in the forum guidelines/rules. I don't see it. I'll let others flame you for your other misinformation.

By SvtPete pm him for forum rules and he will gladly pm u in return with this exact message. if you don't beleive me!!! This is also posted within these forums, if you don't beleive me search

Flaming/sarcasm towards new CEGers will not be tolerated and will be deleted - repeat offenders can be banned.
- Point them to the FAQs and Search
- Provide useful information to answer their question(s)

Please read the Forum Rules!!

Originally posted by 98 SE:
for your other misinformation.

What other??

I had a 95 GT Probe and it was a nice car, but it rode pretty stiff.....I had every bolt-on (short a supercharger) that yo could put on that thing...

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
By SvtPete pm him for forum rules and he will gladly pm u in return with this exact message. if you don't beleive me!!! This is also posted within these forums, if you don't beleive me search

Flaming/sarcasm towards new CEGers will not be tolerated and will be deleted - repeat offenders can be banned.
- Point them to the FAQs and Search
- Provide useful information to answer their question(s)

Exactly where did I flame a newbie? I NEVER do that to newbies. I ALWAYS point newbies in the right direction whenever I make a post to one.

With his post count, I don't exactly consider SVTDriver to be a newbie.

That's my point.

Originally posted by 98 SE:

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
By SvtPete pm him for forum rules and he will gladly pm u in return with this exact message. if you don't beleive me!!! This is also posted within these forums, if you don't beleive me search

Flaming/sarcasm towards new CEGers will not be tolerated and will be deleted - repeat offenders can be banned.
- Point them to the FAQs and Search
- Provide useful information to answer their question(s)

Exactly where did I flame a newbie? I NEVER do that to newbies. I ALWAYS point newbies in the right direction whenever I make a post to one.

With his post count, I don't exactly consider SVTDriver to be a newbie.

That's my point.

I don't either and atcually i know him cause i met him face to face. You called me out to be flamed by others? Right!. SO i wanted to clear my name after you accused me of making up forum rules about flaming. Now you asked for proof and i showed it. As you asked!!
I never stated that you where flaming, now did I? And you even stated that you where joking.

You came back with accusations about me after i made a statement. Look back at what i wrote. I am being polite right now. Cause i never called you out, u did too me. So lets leave this on better terms adn stick to the subject.

Probes!!

Originally posted by Mkingracing:

Originally posted by 98 SE:

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
By SvtPete pm him for forum rules and he will gladly pm u in return with this exact message. if you don't beleive me!!! This is also posted within these forums, if you don't beleive me search

Flaming/sarcasm towards new CEGers will not be tolerated and will be deleted - repeat offenders can be banned.
- Point them to the FAQs and Search
- Provide useful information to answer their question(s)

Exactly where did I flame a newbie? I NEVER do that to newbies. I ALWAYS point newbies in the right direction whenever I make a post to one.

With his post count, I don't exactly consider SVTDriver to be a newbie.

That's my point.

I don't either and atcually i know him cause i met him face to face. You called me out to be flamed by others? Right!. SO i wanted to clear my name after you accused me of making up forum rules about flaming. Now you asked for proof and i showed it. As you asked!!
I never stated that you where flaming, now did I? And you even stated that you where joking.

You came back with accusations about me after i made a statement. Look back at what i wrote. I am being polite right now. Cause i never called you out, u did too me. So lets leave this on better terms adn stick to the subject.

Probes!!

HAHA, harry, you said 'probe'

damnit alex

, u never called me back 2 weeks ago for redline!! Slacker.

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
damnit alex , u never called me back 2 weeks ago for redline!! Slacker.

i was at work a-hole, you'd knwo if you had read my post about that meet.

IMHO, people like Todras, who are always nasty to people online, are worse than any newbie asking an FAQ in a forum.

Being someone who "knew about Contours a long time" is nothing to brag about, or act like some HS jock who gives wedgies.

You have to look at it from the viewpoint of the "old G's" ...those that have been on here a long time see the same questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.... and over again. This can make a person go crazy...or just become rather cranky. The noobs are lucky that the old guys stick around as a source of info!

Originally posted by judis:

everyone knows that searching requires so much more time and searching to do...

That just isn't true. If you know how to enter that proper keywords, instant answers are just a click away.

Originally posted by amarv12:
You have to look at it from the viewpoint of the "old G's" ...those that have been on here a long time see the same questions over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.... and over again. This can make a person go crazy...or just become rather cranky. The noobs are lucky that the old guys stick around as a source of info!

Originally posted by judis:

everyone knows that searching requires so much more time and searching to do...

That just isn't true. If you know how to enter that proper keywords, instant answers are just a click away.

but there in lies the problem. Some times u dont know the "proper" key words to put in. I have been a member for years and some times i still get no response to my searches.

Wesley

when i first started on this site. I was always told to search search search. Ok i sat for hours on end looking up information i needed to solve my question. Then 2 days later a newbie would ask the same question and he would get flamed and also answered. I was like wtf. I sat for 3 hours reading a bunch of bull$hit and i found my answer. And it took him 3 min. So i can see where veterans would get pissed about newbies getting it easy over what they had to go threw to find answers.

Now there are two sides here!

1. Why would i need to spend 3 hrs reading threw all the old archives to find a technical answer that i needed. OR just post and get it answered.

Well you can psot but posts like this piss me off!!

2. IF you have stupid questions that are like "Does an ebay chip really add horsepower" then those people deserve no acknowledgement what so ever, on these boards. I will tell you why!!

question some one would give me is??
"Well he doesn't know anythinga bout an ebay chip, that is why he is asking"?

Then i would repsond with if you don't know anything pick up a book and read for christ sake. OR do not touch $hit that you do not know anything about!! That is how little boys destroy a mans stuff.

there fore littls upid questions get annoying, but technical questions u do not get flamed for!! So agree wit hsoem flaming, but it is against forum rules!!

You know what?

The whole "searching is hard" and "magic word" excuse gets old.

I, for one (as well as countless others) have seen a post, noticed that the decription was WAY off, and so, in the middle of my reply I will put

(FOR ARCHIVE/SEARCH PURPOSES: HANG, TH< Throttle, MOOSE, IDLE, ROAR, FOGHORN)

And then sign the post, this way ANY search about the moose, even though nobody in their right mind would search for "moose", will get a result. All it takes is trying.

Yes, the questions get old.. and then some. Everyone speaks of the "vets" as if they were GIVEN this knowledge, and information. I tell you what, take note of something, here: every "vet" that you say has knowledge is also one of the "search" nazi's... (INCLUDING ME!!!) We are not telling them this to save OURSELVES time...

Its far easier to just give the answer in one post and have the problem FIXED, DONE and out of our hair, than it is to say "search", then listen to "why search", etc.. NOW we have to respond to THAT, too.. then respond to WHICH post we are trying to point them to, and follow up with HOW it works... Instead of them searching and learning all that on their OWN, and not having to have us hold their hand.

Anyone worth their salt on this board will tell you that they learned what they know through READING and research.

The FRAH concept. (FAQ's, RULES, ARCHIVES, and HOW-TO's...)
That's my new response from now on.... FRAH.. not anything else.. just "search for FRAH"...

They'll find this thread, and get the point.. done.

Oh yeah.. to help:

(FOR SEARCH PURPOSES: search, searching, newbie, noob, sucks, keyword, keywords)

Ray

Ray

WOW you guys sure are getting all over heated for such a small matter! There are valid points from both sides and no one is going to give an inch.. but think of it this way, There are really not many post going up everyday so at least it gives us something to read

Question or not.. Or rant about a question lol it is just a place to talk about your car and everyday life with friends that share the same passion for cars.

You would never fight face to face like this at a car meet if someone asked you what you consider a dum question becasue it can be found in the FAQ section you would just anwser him and enjoy your cold beer

ACTUALLY:

There are TONS of posts, per day, that I have to go through, read, research, and then write answers to. I hang out in (almost ONLY) troubleshooting, and the Duratec boards, and I don't know about YOU, or what YOU consider "alot", but I find it taking a lot of time to sit there and type the answers to Each and every thread (only to have the SAME QUESTION asked the next day... They didn't even have to SEARCH FOR THAT ONE!!! look down the page ONE POST on the list of threads!!!... )

See how many posts I have to my name?

I've raised it by about 1400 or so in a very short time since I have begun hanging out in TS more and more. With the exception of this, and my regional posts, that is all there really is.. That seems like a lot to me!

Ray

OK... Well Ray it seems you are a pretty good guy and very helpful to fellow members. I did not know that you spend that much time taking care of people... and I can see where it ticks you off seeing the same questions all the time. I have had many cars and on the other boards I have seen alot more posts only because the car is still in production there for more owners but not important. As you know there will be another person a month from now asking the same question.. and then another after that. It is the same on every msg board.. Nothing much can be done to stop it.

The new guys always ask before looking and that will never change.. and I will always see people giving them crap for asking these questions, it seems to be a vicious cycle of ignorance and lesson .. the member asking the question pleads ignorance and another member gives the answer along with a firm scalding the lesson. You have been a member for some time now so i am sure you have just about been asked everything from why does this blink to does duct tape really work lol

Originally posted by SVT Driver627:

Originally posted by todras:
Why does this come up every 3 weeks? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Completely different. Search newbie!!!!!

Well i wan't quite sure, didn't think of searching, got an instant result didn't I? and todras, i'm not quite a newbie, jsut somewhat ignorant on ocassion

You could have just IM'd me. I know all.

Originally posted by DopePope:

so then you are saying that our 2.5 is evloved from their 2.5? so then porsche designed the engine for mazda, not ford?

Umm no porsche never worked on the mazada spec motors or with mazda ever. Porsche has only worked with Volkswagon, and Suburau.

Sorry i missed this question.

Mk,

You aren't stating that Porsche had "nothing" to do with the Duratec platform are you?

Common knowledge that they began the design process, and Ford used the design, *slightly* modified, to fit.

Ray

Originally posted by Ray:
Mk,

You aren't stating that Porsche had "nothing" to do with the Duratec platform are you?

Common knowledge that they began the design process, and Ford used the design, *slightly* modified, to fit.

Ray

I was mentioning that they had no working effors with mazda.
with the mazada design of there 2.5 mazada spec motors.

The other companies i mentioned are wide spread involvments!! So those are obvious.

It was just that you stated that ford took the mazda engine and placed in the contour, but changed it significantly, then stated that Porsche never touched the mazda engine, so I was wondering where you were going with this..

Ray

This thread needs to die!

Originally posted by Ray:
It was just that you stated that ford took the mazda engine and placed in the contour, but changed it significantly, I never stated that!!

Then stated that Porsche never touched the mazda engine, so I was wondering where you were going with this.. Porsche has never touched hte mazda spec 2.5 liter motor!! I don't understand what your trying to prove here?
Ray

Originally posted by Mkingracing:

Originally posted by Ray:
It was just that you stated that ford took the mazda engine and placed in the contour, but changed it significantly, I never stated that!!

Originally posted by Mkingracing:

the 2.5 in the probe is a mazda spec motor. We just incorporated into our ford cars after we bought 90% of mazda's stock. Doing so we have been capable of using mazda engines and there copyrights. Since than we took there technology and transformed it into what we have now a duretec.

You didn't say that ford took the mazda engine, and used it, but transformed it significantly?

I didn't ever say Porsche touched the Mazda engine.. I stated that they were responsible for a portion of the DESIGN of the duratec.. however, you were indicating that the duratec is nothing more than the Mazda engine that's been changed.

WOW.. I am SO lost, aren't I?

Ray

Originally posted by Ray:

Originally posted by Mkingracing:

Originally posted by Ray:
It was just that you stated that ford took the mazda engine and placed in the contour, but changed it significantly, I never stated that!!

Originally posted by Mkingracing:

the 2.5 in the probe is a mazda spec motor. We just incorporated into our ford cars after we bought 90% of mazda's stock. Doing so we have been capable of using mazda engines and there copyrights. Since than we took there technology and transformed it into what we have now a duretec.

You didn't say that ford took the mazda engine, and used it, but transformed it significantly?

I didn't ever say Porsche touched the Mazda engine.. I stated that they were responsible for a portion of the DESIGN of the duratec.. however, you were indicating that the duratec is nothing more than the Mazda engine that's been changed.

WOW.. I am SO lost, aren't I?

Ray

Ok, this is boring me. good conversation i am just getting to the point we are running in circles!!

I don't think he is trying to argue with you, but I'm somewhat in the same boat as him, so please just explain. Did you mean that the 2.5 in our car evolved from the mazda engine or not? To me it looked as if you said that, so I was just wondering where Porsche played a role in that because it has been stated before ford got the engine from a porsche design (i think). sorry if my first statement led to some confusion.

Originally posted by DopePope:
I don't think he is trying to argue with you, but I'm somewhat in the same boat as him, so please just explain. Did you mean that the 2.5 in our car evolved from the mazda engine or not? To me it looked as if you said that, so I was just wondering where Porsche played a role in that because it has been stated before ford got the engine from a porsche design (i think). sorry if my first statement led to some confusion.

Pope, I am glad that you saw that.

I wasn't trying to argue, I was just thoroughly confused at to what he was trying to convey. I saw, nearly verbatim, that he said the aformentioned statements, but when they were brought up, he simply said that he was bored..

Anyway..

Ray

Originally posted by Ray:

Originally posted by DopePope:
I don't think he is trying to argue with you, but I'm somewhat in the same boat as him, so please just explain. Did you mean that the 2.5 in our car evolved from the mazda engine or not? To me it looked as if you said that, so I was just wondering where Porsche played a role in that because it has been stated before ford got the engine from a porsche design (i think). sorry if my first statement led to some confusion.

Pope, I am glad that you saw that.

I wasn't trying to argue, I was just thoroughly confused at to what he was trying to convey. I saw, nearly verbatim, that he said the aformentioned statements, but when they were brought up, he simply said that he was bored..
Anyway..
Ray

Ok what kinda statment is that, did i really say after you first replied that i was bored. No i explained my self then you wrote back then i explained again then you wrote back. Am i speaking greek too you!! After all those times yes i am getting bored!! Cause from what i see you go aroundand jsut hassel people for no reason.

Ok when ford started to get ideas for a new engine they turned to mazada for there 4 cylinders. Like i stated ford got the 2.5 duratec version idea from mazda. Sorry let me clearify, ford did not take the mazda motor and drop into the contour. They desinged a whole new motor. Transformed was a bad word. But i have never heard that porsche had a role with the 2.5 design. Porchse doesn't even like ford. And that statment is a fact!!

Me getting bored is that maybe i am not getting across right or either you are not understanding me.

Either way Ford has used mazda engines in the past. After years of usage ford turned arounnd and decided to design a new one, instead of paying money to mazda to build plants to produce there spec 2.5 motor. Ford then decided to build ther own version of 2.5 and decided to release the duratec. IF prochse had a role in the 2.5 design i have no idea. Never heard of it in my life. I have to ask others who worked at ford (cousins) who are engineers for over 30 years wether of not they got help. The 2.5 was not porchses idea. It was fords!!

Originally posted by Mkingracing:

Either way Ford has used mazda engines in the past. After years of usage ford turned arounnd and decided to design a new one, instead of paying money to mazda to build plants to produce there spec 2.5 motor. Ford then decided to build ther own version of 2.5 and decided to release the duratec. IF prochse had a role in the 2.5 design i have no idea. Never heard of it in my life. I have to ask others who worked at ford (cousins) who are engineers for over 30 years wether of not they got help. The 2.5 was not porchses idea. It was fords!!

read me 1
read me 2

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Ok when ford started to get ideas for a new engine they turned to mazada for there 4 cylinders. Like i stated ford got the 2.5 duratec version idea from mazda. Sorry let me clearify, ford did not take the mazda motor and drop into the contour. They desinged a whole new motor. Transformed was a bad word. But i have never heard that porsche had a role with the 2.5 design. Porchse doesn't even like ford. And that statment is a fact!!

Me getting bored is that maybe i am not getting across right or either you are not understanding me.

Either way Ford has used mazda engines in the past. After years of usage ford turned arounnd and decided to design a new one, instead of paying money to mazda to build plants to produce there spec 2.5 motor. Ford then decided to build ther own version of 2.5 and decided to release the duratec. IF prochse had a role in the 2.5 design i have no idea. Never heard of it in my life. I have to ask others who worked at ford (cousins) who are engineers for over 30 years wether of not they got help. The 2.5 was not porchses idea. It was fords!!

Wow, I was hoping to stay out of this for fear of angry, flaming participants turning their torches towards me, but the pathological spread of misinformation here offends my sensibilities...so I have to contribute.

The 'KL' Series Mazda V6, whose 2.5 Litre version made its debut in the 1993 626/MX6/Probe, and Ford's 1994 'Duratec V6' share little in the way of design features other than having 6 cylinders, 4 cams, and lots of valves. The Duratec runs a chain to independent cams on each bank, whereas the KL runs a belt to 1 cam on each bank which is direct-geared to counterrotate its complement (same with Toyota's belt V6's). The Duratec has roller followers for valve actuation. The KL uses direct tappets. The Duratec's 'dual-runner' air induction system is markedly different in concept, construction, and operation from Mazda's Variable Resonance Induction System (VRIS) -- if anything, one can speculate the Mazda version was lifted from Toyota's late 80's 2VZ-FE 2.5 Litre V6 (of remarkably similar design topology--air induction, belt-drive, valve actuation--to the KL except for its iron-block), whereas Ford's design for twin runners with butterfly valve air management evolved from the Yamaha-designed 3.0 Litre SHO motor. The water pumps are located in completely different positions on each motor.

As has been discussed at length on this forum for years now, Porsche Engineering was contracted by Ford Motor Company to develop the Duratec 'prototype'. Cosworth weighed in with its licensing to Ford of the well-known rollover, low-pressure, precision sand casting technique for the block and heads. The Porsche 'prototype' in its original incarnation is not the engine we know as the Duratec -- it underwent a certain amount of 're-engineering' by Ford before production began (a sore subject around here), but retained the Cosworth casting technique and many design features native to the prototype.

But one needn't look specifically at Porsche Engineering's involvement with the Duratec or the wide range of design differences between the two engines...the simple fact that the KL and the Duratec were placed into production within a year of each other--and at least two years prior to Ford's acquiring its 33% controlling interest in Mazda--means that there wouldn't have been time for Ford to 'copy' or 'transform' Mazda's technology to another design. Both engines were in the thick of their design, development, and testing schedules almost simultaneously.

Ok my whole argument was that ford got its 2.5 idea fro m the mazda spec motor. Identical as you mention it is not.

Ok so bottom line i always thought and now is wrong that the ford 2.5 never got any ideas from the 2.5. They got it from porsche and with cosworth help. Then ford changed it again.

I have been told and am in shock that they never recieve any input from the 2.5 spec motor. Or influence??

PS. That was teh best replie i have heard in this post. Tks that is the best articles and reviews.