GETTING THE SHAFT FROM FORD!!

Originally posted by Beachboy:
Ford won't honor the warranty if the car's been abused or raced. Your screen name of Blackbirdracing is damning evidence there, man.

So the SVT models are garage queen's now ? Is that it ?

My dislike for Ford grows stronger.

Mitsubishi is doing the same thing to people racing theier EVO cars.

My warranty is Ford ESP premium care. (whatever)

It's good until 75K or 06/06 whichever first.

Thanks for your help guys, I already called the customer care line, that is a crock of you know what. They are about as good as nothing

Travis

Do you know if ESP sent an inspector to look at your car? It is possible but uncommon. If they did, the inspector would have sent pictures as well as his statement about why it was not covered. Should you go to court, this information would be used. Shopuld you go to court you would want to get all the info that the dealer and Ford have compliled about your car (through the discovery process) so that you can effectively answer to it.

Originally posted by Big Jim:
Do you know if ESP sent an inspector to look at your car? It is possible but uncommon. If they did, the inspector would have sent pictures as well as his statement about why it was not covered. Should you go to court, this information would be used. Shopuld you go to court you would want to get all the info that the dealer and Ford have compliled about your car (through the discovery process) so that you can effectively answer to it.

I was told that an ESP inpsector has come out and he has made the "denial" decision. I don't know of any pictures,

I don't even know what my next step is going to be.

I will be hearing from the regional service rep. monday.
What should I ask/tell him.

Travis

From Autoweek:

You Break it, You Buy it
Whether abuse or autocrossing, most automakers are not covering it
ANDREW LUU
Published Date: 7/5/04
Michael Miller didnâ�?��?�t know it, but the drivetrain warranty was already void on his sonâ�?��?�s new Mitsubishi Evolution before he even took the car in for service to his local Salt Lake City dealership.

Unbeknownst to Miller, Mitsubishi placed a lifetime warranty restriction on the engine, clutch and transmission in Millerâ�?��?�s Evo because the company discovered the car had been entered in a Sports Car Club of America autocross event a month earlier.

Miller said that about two weeks after entering the Evo in the SCCA event he heard bad noises emanating from the engine bay and took the car in for service."The dealer performed a vehicle service inquiry and I was told there was a restriction placed on my file,"Miller says.

Bottom line: After entering the car in one SCCA event, Miller was left with a $7,000 bill for repairing two failed connecting rods and a blown turbocharger.

"Problems related to racing or modifications are not covered under warranty," says Mitsubishi spokeswoman Janis Little. "Autocrossing, or timed competition, is classified under the warranty terms as racing. Itâ�?��?�s difficult for us to know if youâ�?��?�re out there racing, but if there is evidence of racing damage, weâ�?��?�re going to look into it and you may have warranty restrictions placed on certain parts of the vehicle."

Most owners recognize that part of the cost of going racing means footing the repair bill when something goes awry. Manufacturer warranties and owner manuals typically specify that harsh use, abuse, non-factory modifications and racing can void all or part of a vehicleâ�?��?�s warranty intended to cover defects in materials or workmanship. Millerâ�?��?�s case, however, raises questions about how the company discovered his autocross involvement.

The buzz in online communities suggests Mitsubishi is cross matching names from its owner database with SCCA autocross results. Those who turn up on both lists are notified that their vehicle warranties are void, the online chatter claims. Miller says Mitsubishi wasnâ�?��?�t clear on how it learned of his autocrossing.

Mitsubishi adamantly denies that it uses automated web search systems to look for Evolutions involved in race events."We donâ�?��?�t have people out there searching websites for names,"says Little.

No matter how racing involvement comes to the attention of an automaker, companies steadfastly stand by their right to limit warranty coverageâ�?��?�even if the cars they sell are clearly built for speed and marketed with flashy ads and brochures that promote enthusiastic driving. Most automakers say the same thing: Racing, track use, competition and other abuses arenâ�?��?�t covered.

"When it hits the track, all bets are off,"says Bob Carlson, Porsche Cars of North America spokesman.

For instance, even though Subaru pops for a one-year SCCA membership for every interested WRX buyer, and in its marketing materials appears to encourage owners to enter their cars in autocross events, the company says autocrossing is racing and racing can void warranty coverage. The WRX/SCCA application form says the SCCA"looks forward to helping you fully experience the benefits of owning this car."But the form also includes a disclaimer that Subaruâ�?��?�s warranty excludes "damage or failure resulting from participation in competition or racing events."

"If the damage looks to be racing related, youâ�?��?�re not going to be covered," says Subaru spokeswoman Larkin Hill. "We donâ�?��?�t want to punish the person who goes out once in a while and autocrossesâ�?��?�and that shouldnâ�?��?�t cause any problems with the car anyway. However, autocross is considered competition and the warranty does not cover abusive driving or competition. If youâ�?��?�re out there racing every weekend, you canâ�?��?�t expect us to fund it."

Youâ�?��?�ll hear the same story at DaimlerChrysler Street and Racing Technology, where they make the Dodge SRT-4, the Viper-powered Ram SRT-10 and the supercharged Chrysler Crossfire SRT-6. "Technically, racing damage is not covered under warranty,"says SRT spokesman Dan Bodene. "If a guy autocrosses, submits a problem for warranty and the dealer suspects it is racing related, heâ�?��?�s going to huddle with our technicians to find out. If it is, our dealers are not obligated to cover it under warranty."

Chevrolet lures young buyers with the performance promise of its 2005 supercharged Cobalt SS, but the ownerâ�?��?�s manual clearly states the warranty does not cover alterations and misuse.

"Under the misuse heading, such things like running over curbs, improper loading and competition or racing are spelled out specifically," says Chevy spokesman Mike Stoller. "If thereâ�?��?�s a car coming into the dealer that has been racing and that results in damage, and itâ�?��?�s something that is probable or obvious, that would not be something we would be compelled to cover."

Internal investigations arenâ�?��?�t limited to autocrossing, but cover any activity deemed outside normal use, such as track days and plain old aggressive driving.

"If a guyâ�?��?�s constantly lighting up the tires on the street, thatâ�?��?�s not normal wear and tear," says Chryslerâ�?��?�s Bodene.

Adds Mitsubishiâ�?��?�s Little: "Youâ�?��?�re not going to get black-flagged just for entering an autocross, but if something happens we want people to be reasonable and responsible for their own actions. If you go once in a while, just like if you drive hard on the street, whoâ�?��?�s going to really know? But if youâ�?��?�re coming in two or three times to replace a blown clutch, we know youâ�?��?�re probably testing your carâ�?��?�s 0-to-60 time."

But what about all those manufacturer- and dealer-sponsored"racing" eventsâ�?��?�track days, club meets and
performance driving programs that seem to encourage owners to drive competitively?

The big difference, companies note, is that manufacturer-sponsored driving programs such as Mazdaâ�?��?�s Rev It Up or the Porsche Driving Experience provide cars and instruction, and no owner vehicles are permitted.

One rare exception is track day events organized, sponsored and sanctioned by the national Ford SVT Ownersâ�?��?� Association and local Ford/SVT dealers. Owners bring their cars, and the association and participating dealers agree to cover any mechanical failures brought on by normal track use.

"Owners can participate in the instructional days without automatically voiding their warranties," says Ford Performance Vehicles spokesman Alan Hall. "Obviously if they abuse it [the car] on the track, or thereâ�?��?�s a part that breaks due to aggressive driving, that will not be covered under warranty. But your warranty will not be voided across the board by just participating in that event. We donâ�?��?�t automatically void a warranty unless above-normal abuse is shown on a vehicle."

Masscontour I subscribe to autoweek and have read that article before.

As a matter of fact I was showing it to a friend about 2 weeks ago.

I do not Autocross my contour.

nor do I drag race it.

ive heard that Dodge supposedly browses the SRT forums to gather info on owners who race. although, you cant exactly prove that the person online is who they say they are.

Quote:

Masscontour I subscribe to autoweek and have read that article before.

As a matter of fact I was showing it to a friend about 2 weeks ago.

I do not Autocross my contour.

nor do I drag race it.

I know you're pissed; I would be too, I guess. I was just passing it along FYI. Good luck.

Oh, and by the way, before you go getting all pissy telling me you don't do this or don't do that, keep in mind that we can look at all of your past posts (hint, hint).

i know brad Webb. If you would like me to talk to him i can. I am the one who bought the aussie bar from you. brad gave me my svt for cost.

Originally posted by MassContour:
Oh, and by the way, before you go getting all pissy telling me you don't do this or don't do that, keep in mind that we can look at all of your past posts (hint, hint).

Of course you can look around sir.

As far as getting pissy, I'm not going to get pissy on here at any of you guys, were all here to back each other up, right?

If ESP has sent an inspector, I would guess that your chances of getting Ford to pay for it are not good.

I'll give you a bit of an idea on how it works.

You take your car in for ESP repairs. The dealer checks it out to determine what it is likely to cost to repair. They check to see if it less than their limit (some dealers have higher limits than others). If it is over their ESP self authorization, they call ESP and tell them what they found. ESP decides if they are going to send an inspector or not. If they send an inspector, they wait for his report. These inspectors are independent inspectors that they get from a pool or list of approved inspectors. Most inspectors usually work for several extended warranty companies. Frequently they are trade school instructors (so they really know their stuff). ESP reviews the inspectors report and determine if they will pay the claim or not.

Sometimes in this process, the customer is contacted and told that ESP requires a tear down and that if the repairs are not covered that the customer will be responsible for the cost of the tear down. California law ( I don't know about other states) requires that the tear down extimate also allow for reassembly "as best possible". The customer can wave his right to the reassembly to reduce the cost if he wishes to tow the car out.

If the Claim is denied, the customer is given the option to pay the dealer for the repairs or to make other plans.

The main point I wanted to get to, if ESP denies a claim, they feel that they have a very strong case. Should you wish to contest it in court later, be very well prepared with your own experts.

Back to your question about what to ask about when you talk to the rep, try to find out as much as you can about why they are saying no, then try to determine if this is something that was beyond your control or if indeed it was from abuse. If you think that it was beyond your control, explain as carefully as possible why you feel that way. It would need to be very compelling to get him to find a way to overide whatever evidence ESP already has.

If you still do not succeed, you will need to evaluate if you want to pursue it in small claims court. You mentioned that Terry Haines may be able to help. Should he inspect the car and find strong evidence in your favor small claims court would probably be where you could sort that out.

I hope I have helped you better understand the position you are in, as have the other posters.

Don't forget to play the "SVT" card. The literature shows that it was built for such use (at least up to a point) and you did not use it in a manner that was inconsistant with their own indications. If you choose to go down this path, make sure you are well prepared. Get your hands on some SVT literature and become very familiar with it.

Originally posted by blackbirdracing:
Turns out I check out "oasis" from another dealer he says the trans has been replaced or rebuilt 3 times. Prior to me owning the car.

Originally posted by Big Jim:
If you think that it was beyond your control, explain as carefully as possible why you feel that way.

maybe i am missing something here so forgive me if i am wrong. but assuming that blackbirdracing has not abused the car since he has owned it would he not have recourse since the previous owner clearly abused it most likely without his knowledge? that would seem to me to be out of his control.

That may mean that he has recourse with the person or dealer that he bought the car from for lack of disclosure or even the dealer that did the prior repairs. ESP may or may not step up to that.

But I agree, that may be part of his defense. Sometimes Ford will step up rather than force the customer to duke it out with with another dealer.

If you can, you really want to try to get the dealership on your side if at all possible in such cases. If the service manager can tell the factory rep that this had to be out of the customer's control because of prior repair history and he did buy an extended warranty the rep just might step up.

I don't know enough about all the details here to help much more. Also things may have changed in the last few months. It has been nearly a year since I left a Ford dealership.

Good luck, man.

I do not know how "the system" works in IL, but here in WV, our Attorney General office will investigate claims against auto warranty programs. Might be something worth looking at.

Originally posted by my csvt:
maybe i am missing something here so forgive me if i am wrong. but assuming that blackbirdracing has not abused the car since he has owned it would he not have recourse since the previous owner clearly abused it most likely without his knowledge? that would seem to me to be out of his control.

You are probably wrong. The warranty he signed more than likely states in small print somewhere that the warranty does not cover breakdowns caused by abuse regardless of whether the abuse predates his ownership of the vehicle.

Also, the warranty probably does not permit him to go to small claims court. Most warranties included language stating that if there is a dispute the parties agree to use an arbiter and split the cost of the arbiter regardless of the outcome. This discourages people from contesting the warranty company because arbiters can be quite expensive.

At least these were two features of my own warranty that I discovered when my synchros began to grind.

Definitely read the warranty paperwork, especailly the fine print. Although my extended warranty wasn't an ESP, I did have a somewhat similar situation. Spun a bearing in the 2.5L @ 52k miles and an inspector came out to look at it. I'm friends with everyone at Ford and my Service Advisor told me about his meeting with the inspector. He said the motor was extremely clean and could tell that it wasn't because I neglected it. The reason my claim was denied was because I couldn't show "proof" that I had done regular maintenance(oil changes) to the motor. I would have had to shown receipts of professionally done oil changes, so me doing my own oil changes and showing them receipts of oil/filter purchases wasn't good enough. Might want to see how the warranty defines "abuse" in your case.

Mark

Originally posted by ODC:

My dislike for Ford grows stronger.

I see the dark side is talking...aka import cars. Fight the urge!

Quote:

The reason my claim was denied was because I couldn't show "proof" that I had done regular maintenance(oil changes) to the motor. I would have had to shown receipts of professionally done oil changes, so me doing my own oil changes and showing them receipts of oil/filter purchases wasn't good enough. Might want to see how the warranty defines "abuse" in your case.

This is absolutely against Federal Law. The Magnusson-Moss Act requires that companies allow you to perform your own maintenance. The only exception is if they are willing to pay for the maintenance themselves. If a dealer and/or the company themselves tells you that you have to go to a particular location for service that is then deemed "Warranty Service" and must be provided free of charge. So the next time the dealer tells you to take it to a "Professional" for its' Oil Change, ask him for a Filter and $20. The Act is very clear in this regard.

Quote:

Also, the warranty probably does not permit him to go to small claims court. Most warranties included language stating that if there is a dispute the parties agree to use an arbiter and split the cost of the arbiter regardless of the outcome. This discourages people from contesting the warranty company because arbiters can be quite expensive.

If a warranty states that you cannot take the warranty company to a public court then whatever alternative that the warranty company wishes to use must "be available free of charge to consumers". It also must provide a response within 40 days of notice, so it's not like they can sit on the case forever either.

Originally posted by Cris'pus:

Originally posted by ODC:

My dislike for Ford grows stronger.

I see the dark side is talking...aka import cars. Fight the urge!

Think I'll just go back to GM ...

3.9L 6 speed G6 Coupe Cabrio or 4door!

And yes Ford's Customer Service (in general) is very awful. Small town dealers are the worst!

Well Ford says I'm SOL.

Dealer says $3300 to replace trans?

Sounds high?

Thanks again guys, it all boils down to what I can prove and we all know there isn't a dealer in the world that will admit to wrong doing.

Terry The trans is coming to you, just have to save first.

Originally posted by Cris'pus:
3.9L 6 speed G6 Coupe Cabrio or 4door!

And yes Ford's Customer Service (in general) is very awful. Small town dealers are the worst!

Are you kidding ? That G6 is hideous.

I was thinking of importing a GTO or doing a manual swap to a GTP.

Hell with it, I'll buy some cheap 80's camry and spend the rest on a ZX-6

how can they prove that the car has been beating I just don't get it, oh well.

its a shame how ford works, when I got my kl03 swapped (I picked the motor up from a mazda dealer, wrecked mx-6.. they gave me a good 6 month warrenty... and they KNEW I was going to beat it (its a good thing I'm friends with them)
one of the head gaskets blew up... got it fixed all for free no questions asked....

altough I did get them a case of beer and stayed there with them to help out at night... mazda in hamilton is a highly recommended place.

Mad Mederios, How much for the engine and the swap? I will have to get another kl03 for my 626 but I can't until at least August. Send me a PM if u can please.

Aaron

Sorry to hijack the thread

Originally posted by BlackBirdRacing:
Well Ford says I'm SOL.

Dealer says $3300 to replace trans?

Sounds high?

Thanks again guys, it all boils down to what I can prove and we all know there isn't a dealer in the world that will admit to wrong doing.

Terry The trans is coming to you, just have to save first.

hey I have a used tranny sitting in my garage thats still good. How deperate are you for a trans?

Ford service sucks.