Well, after seeing the stories about people with dying 3Ls, I've decided enough is enough. I just got approved for a blank check from my credit union, and I'm going to go trade in my car while it still has a reasonable quiet and running engine. I'm downgrading myself to a FSVT. My only concern.. the focus message boards seem to suck compared to this one. Sigh.
In all honesty, I'd do the same...except minus the FSVT ;-) seem to be good platforms and a better aftermarket
Well if you've got a good suggestion, I'm open to ideas. Can't be japanese, has to be <$21k out the door price. The FSVT has $3k cash back, which is what really turned me on to it.. since I'm gonna have $4200 negative equity from this piece of crap.
depends what your looking for, but honestly the Gulf/Jetta 1.8ts have me eye balling them. Not thati'd ever buy one, but I think they are sharp little cars.
has to be <$21k out the door price.
Take a look at the Dodge SRT/4. Under $21k, Mopar Stage 1,2,3 mods for over 300 hp if you want it and a 0-60 of 5.9 seconds stock without any stage upgrades.
If I didn't love tinkering with my Mystique so muc I'd have one in my garage right now.
Originally posted by RogerB:
E36 M3.
Your joking right?
I second the SRT-4.
Originally posted by Antonio:
I second the SRT-4.
Third. Don't know how much used GTO's (the new ones) will run ya, but take a look at those too.
Make sure you test drive the fsvt first my buddy just bought one the csvt is much better even he thinks so,but the sound system kicks ass and the six speed is awsome.I know you said no japanese how about a subaru or a 95+ M3.The only good american cars I can think of are the mustang,new hemi dodge wagon,the GTO 33,000+.I dont know if that helps.
I know you said no japanese, but give the Maxima a look. They got pretty good speed and handling charecteristics in stock form. They aren't as common as Honda and Toyota and seem to be quite reliable. My wifes '99 Maxima is about to turn 100K with out an issue.
You can get a quality used one for a decent price, and they have a better aftermarket than the contiques.
Originally posted by TheAlmightyMe:
I know you said no japanese, but give the Maxima a look. They got pretty good speed and handling charecteristics in stock form. They aren't as common as Honda and Toyota and seem to be quite reliable. My wifes '99 Maxima is about to turn 100K with out an issue.
You can get a quality used one for a decent price, and they have a better aftermarket than the contiques.
i agree with the maxima...those cars from 95- up are basically bulletproof as long as you do the maintence on them...we just sold my wife's 95(for the same price as we paid for it)with 165k miles on it,and it still runs perfect....only reason we sold it was we were given a 97 lincoln by a family friend...maximas are great little cars...
I like what the neon is about, but I just can't over the fact that its still a neon.
Originally posted by RoadiJeff:
has to be <$21k out the door price.
Take a look at the Dodge SRT/4. Under $21k, Mopar Stage 1,2,3 mods for over 300 hp if you want it and a 0-60 of 5.9 seconds stock without any stage upgrades.
If I didn't love tinkering with my Mystique so muc I'd have one in my garage right now.
Quote:
2004 Maxima
An inspiring blend of luxury and performance. ($29,350 as shown)
Starting at $27,100
You must have been talking used.. I do think Maximas are nice cars but I am approved for a NEW loan. I *can not* buy a used car (and wouldn't after this experience), and if I buy new it most likely will have to have ~$3000 cash back. I still owe alot of money on my contour, and will probably get crap from the dealer as a trade-in value.
The neon.. well.. if it wasn't for the fact that its a neon I would consider it. I have a couple friends with neons, they're probably the only people who have more unreliable cars than me.
Originally posted by GRN99SVT:
Make sure you test drive
Hahahahaha sorry I know you are just trying to help but.. has anyone actually ever bought a car WITHOUT test driving it...?
Originally posted by Antonio:
Originally posted by RogerB:
E36 M3.
Your joking right?
I second the SRT-4.
Why would I be joking?
You can keep your cheesy little Neon.
Now a used Maxima, I'd consider.
But considering that BMW was a target for SVT when they took hold of the Contour, I mean, what better car to replace it with?
I'm talking about the 95-99 MY version, btw. Did you think I meant a new one? Anyway, you can find plenty of nice M3s in his stated price range, and they are definitely not Japanese.
Originally posted by GRN99SVT:
...how about a subaru or a 95+ M3.
Careful. Antonio will think you're joking.
Originally posted by RogerB:
I'm talking about the 95-99 MY version, btw. Did you think I meant a new one? Anyway, you can find plenty of nice M3s in his stated price range, and they are definitely not Japanese.
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
I *can not* buy a used car (and wouldn't after this experience), and if I buy new it most likely will have to have ~$3000 cash back.
Originally posted by RoadiJeff:
has to be <$21k out the door price.
Take a look at the Dodge SRT/4. Under $21k, Mopar Stage 1,2,3 mods for over 300 hp if you want it and a 0-60 of 5.9 seconds stock without any stage upgrades.
If I didn't love tinkering with my Mystique so muc I'd have one in my garage right now.
I second this. You really can't beat the performance vs. dollar of this car. It's also built very very well, so you don't have to go into the engine unless you start going over 500hp or so. The interior isn't great, my friend was vacuuming his and some of the carpet just came right off. BUT you are paying for the engine,tranny,and suspension when you buy it. Though if creature comforts,etc. are more your thing, you don't want the srt4.
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
Originally posted by GRN99SVT:
Make sure you test drive
Hahahahaha sorry I know you are just trying to help but.. has anyone actually ever bought a car WITHOUT test driving it...?
Ummmmmmmm. 
I was in Turkey late in '95. I did a lot of research. I had a trusted friend check it out. My wife did the paperwork. Car was waiting for me when I got back. Only surprises were the front license plate mount (which I had requested to NOT be there) and over 2k on the odo.
I have truly not been disappointed.
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
I *can not* buy a used car (and wouldn't after this experience), and if I buy new it most likely will have to have ~$3000 cash back.
Well, there goes my M3 idea.
...I have once...
I actually bought the car while I was in Africa ;-)
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
Originally posted by GRN99SVT:
Make sure you test drive
Hahahahaha sorry I know you are just trying to help but.. has anyone actually ever bought a car WITHOUT test driving it...?
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Originally posted by RoadiJeff:
has to be <$21k out the door price.
Take a look at the Dodge SRT/4. Under $21k, Mopar Stage 1,2,3 mods for over 300 hp if you want it and a 0-60 of 5.9 seconds stock without any stage upgrades.
If I didn't love tinkering with my Mystique so muc I'd have one in my garage right now.
I second this. You really can't beat the performance vs. dollar of this car. It's also built very very well, so you don't have to go into the engine unless you start going over 500hp or so. The interior isn't great, my friend was vacuuming his and some of the carpet just came right off. BUT you are paying for the engine,tranny,and suspension when you buy it. Though if creature comforts,etc. are more your thing, you don't want the srt4.
Not really looking for a super fast performance. I don't do major mods, I barely even do minor ones. I just enjoy a spirited drive every once and a while, so its gotta be just a little sporty.
If you think you have negative equity in your CSVT just wait until you get the FSVT. Dealer discounts have em marked down over $6K, down to $16,500. Have a look at what used '02 and '03 FSVT's are going for. If resale is an issue and your financing longer than 48months I would stay away from FSVT's unless you can pick one up at the $17K mark.
Saturn Red Line would be in your price range.....
Mazda? kinda Ford....... a 6s out the door is close to $21K after disocunts
The problem with the negative equity isn't that I'm concerned about getting it. The problem is that I *have* alot of negative equity, and have to get it financed. The cash back and the negative equity almost cancel each other out. It'll basically go back up to the MSRP, which I can get financed for. Watch this example (values are approximated):
FSVT:
$20k + $7k (current loan) - $3k (trade-in value) - $3k (incentives) = $21k to be financed.
SRT-4:
$21k + $7k (current loan) - $3k (trade in value) = $25k to be financed.
So with the FSVT, I have to get a loan for $21k on a $20k car. With the SRT4, I have to get a loan for $25k on a $21k car. Credit union won't do finance that high over, I have to come up with $4k out of pocket.
Yeah but as soon as you roll that car off the lot you're gonna be right back to having negative equity again...that's what I believe he was trying to point out. Focus depreciates rapidly, worse I think that the CSVT so it you manage to get one at MSRP AFTER paying off the excess on your 'Tour the Focus will drop off so fast that you'll be right back to negative equity; just on a different car. Your best bet really is just to keep the car a little longer until you can get it paid off or at least within a grand of it being paid off. Otherwise, you're just going to to through a perpetual cycle of owing more on your car than it's worth.
As long as the car LASTS me that long, that doesn't really concern me. I was going to trade in my car when the first engine was dying, but you guys told me not to. Now, about $4000 later, as my new engine, new clutch and flywheel, A/C, fuel pump, and more are dead or dying.. I'm wondering why I listened. I would assume the focus will last me 7 years, I know it'll last me at least 5 because that's the warrantee it comes with. When I get to that point, I won't have to worry about negative equity because it'll be PAID OFF.
How in the world do you get upside down by $4200 on a 7 model year old Contour? I'm not criticizing, I'm just curious as to how it happens!
-Lance
Well why not SAVE like crazy the next 3-4 months and try and come up with your negative equity and sell the car for $5K.
No chance you will keep the FSVT more than 3yrs....... How long have you owned the CSVT?
Originally posted by RogerB:
Originally posted by Antonio:
Originally posted by RogerB:
E36 M3.
Your joking right?
I second the SRT-4.
Why would I be joking?
You can keep your cheesy little Neon.
Now a used Maxima, I'd consider.
But considering that BMW was a target for SVT when they took hold of the Contour, I mean, what better car to replace it with?
I'm talking about the 95-99 MY version, btw. Did you think I meant a new one? Anyway, you can find plenty of nice M3s in his stated price range, and they are definitely not Japanese.
After my SVT went to dust. I looked at ALOT of E36 M3's. Many of the 95-97's have dropped into the $15,000-$20,000. The thing is most have high mileage. Now if you factor in repair costs and general maintenance then his budget will be shot. Shall we talk about insurance prices?
Now, do you have anything else smart to say?
SpliceVW, live up to "VW" in your name and get a used GTI. You know you want to. 
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
Hahahahaha sorry I know you are just trying to help but.. has anyone actually ever bought a car WITHOUT test driving it...?
Well, I did, actually. Ordered my SVT Contour sight unseen when it was announced in March 1997. I had never seen one in person until the salesman drove it up to me in the dealer parking lot. If you have a taste for performance cars, test drives are not all that easy to get. And even when you do, you can't really tell all that much about the car because you have to
a. be careful with a near-zero mileage car with an unbroken-in motor.
b. have a salesman in the car with you pressuring you to drive as conservatively as possible, as well as get back to the dealership to consumate the deal.
c. realize that a single test drive is essentially meaningless. How much can you really learn about a car with just one drive? Maybe how it fits your body, how the car's controls feel -- that's about it. To really know a car takes a long time.
Before I get flamed, I'm talking about high-performance cars that are relatively rare. Dealers almost never have sports car test-drive mules, and they don't want people to test drive their inventory because no buyer wants to purchase a sports car that has been potentially been beaten on by previous shoppers. It's a Catch 22: you can't test drive the car unless you buy it, but you won't buy it unless you test drive it.
When Evos and STi's first came out, getting a test drive was nearly impossible. That has improved a bit, but the same set of rules apply to a C6 Corvette, Porsche 911, Mustang Cobra, or other similar sports cars.
Much as people rail about the car magazines (rags), they are the only group that has enough access to the cars in environments that allow them to truly explore the car's limits. I find if I pick a writer that I trust based on years of reading their opinions, then I can usually tell whether the car they are writing about is one that I could grow to like. It's a crapshoot, to be sure, but it is a price we pay for being automotive enthusiasts.
Now, if you were going to buy a Dakota or a Camry or Buick, then by all means, take a nice, long leisurely test drive. Most of those dealers would be happy to accomodate you.
Originally posted by PlatoSVT:
Third.
fourth. i just read the article in scc a couple of days ago. that makes me want to get one even though i will never give up my tour
Originally posted by Fmr12B:
Well why not SAVE like crazy the next 3-4 months and try and come up with your negative equity and sell the car for $5K.
No chance you will keep the FSVT more than 3yrs....... How long have you owned the CSVT?
First of all, I would NOT sell this car private party. Personal ethics. I'd have to disclose everything that's wrong with it, and NOBODY would want it for $5000. A dealer, on the other hand... well, I have no problems lying to them. Second of all, my car might not be WORKING in 3-4 months, so I'd get even LESS trading it in.
Why don't you think I'll have the FSVT for more than 3 years? I planned on running this car into the ground, my whole family is that way. The only reason I'm getting rid of this one is because of the engine trouble. I'm pretty sure the Zetec is a much more reliable engine.
Plus.. I don't see any good alternatives that people gave me. I like the FSVT better than the GTI, anything else is just plain too expensive. Too many horror stories about neons.. I'd like to hear ONE person tell me that they're reliable.
how about a later model 3 series...like a 98???
I like the FSVT.....was going to get one.....ride nice.....comfortable and plenty of room.
even though i voted for the srt-4 your fsvt idea makes more sense economically based on the numbers you provide.
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
Plus.. I don't see any good alternatives that people gave me. I like the FSVT better than the GTI, anything else is just plain too expensive. Too many horror stories about neons.. I'd like to hear ONE person tell me that they're reliable.
Not trying to sway you, but the srt4 is pretty different from your standard neon. I know A LOT of people that will tell you how reliable a srt4 is. Some of them I know myself. One, you may know, tim (ATL-SRT, used to be -SVT), I'm sure could fill you in. But the fsvt will be much better for getting around day to day, though the srt4=more fun,easier to mod,and more fun.
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
Finally, someone. Hah!
It was a nice car.....was top of the line.....heated seats, engine block heater, HID projectors, moonroof.......car was real peppy and brakes were great......Did not even need exhaust.....the tone was just right. All it needed was some tint. 
Originally posted by LoCoZs/c:
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
Finally, someone. Hah!
It was a nice car.....was top of the line.....heated seats, engine block heater, HID projectors, moonroof.......car was real peppy and brakes were great......Did not even need exhaust.....the tone was just right. All it needed was some tint.
You forgot to add serverly outclassed. With the SRT-4 out, only a fool would buy a FSVT. The car needs like a new engine to compete with the market. At least with the GTI you can chip the car.
SpliceVW, go with the SRT-4. The car is very,very nice.
Originally posted by Antonio:
SpliceVW, go with the SRT-4. The car is very,very nice.
The engine,tranny,and suspension are very nice. Actually the interior looks good too, BUT it's not good. Like I said the carpet sucks up, and back seat head rests are made of reinforced titanium or something. Front seats are good though, just don't vacuum anything.
Originally posted by Antonio:
Originally posted by LoCoZs/c:
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
Finally, someone. Hah!
It was a nice car.....was top of the line.....heated seats, engine block heater, HID projectors, moonroof.......car was real peppy and brakes were great......Did not even need exhaust.....the tone was just right. All it needed was some tint.
You forgot to add serverly outclassed. With the SRT-4 out, only a fool would buy a FSVT. The car needs like a new engine to compete with the market. At least with the GTI you can chip the car.
SpliceVW, go with the SRT-4. The car is very,very nice.
Yeah but for all around the FSVT would still be a better pick......for power I would go with a SRT-4 or a GTI.
Originally posted by Antonio:
Originally posted by LoCoZs/c:
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
Finally, someone. Hah!
It was a nice car.....was top of the line.....heated seats, engine block heater, HID projectors, moonroof.......car was real peppy and brakes were great......Did not even need exhaust.....the tone was just right. All it needed was some tint.
You forgot to add serverly outclassed. With the SRT-4 out, only a fool would buy a FSVT. The car needs like a new engine to compete with the market. At least with the GTI you can chip the car.
SpliceVW, go with the SRT-4. The car is very,very nice.
Are you saying that the SRT-4 is reliable?
The srt-4 is very reliable. The engine is built like a brick house. Tranny is built pretty well too. Just look at how much abuse these cars take every day from teenagers and people at drag strips. Reliability will not be a problem with the srt4 (nor would it be with the fsvt).
Okay.. so I looked at the SRT-4, and after my negative equity I'd end up paying ~$27k. Too high, sorry.
Yeah, no kidding. I really wish I could have saved up enough to pay off that loan (or at least get it down so I wouldn't have negative equity) but I know my car would die by the time I got there.
Oh well, in like... 5 years.. I'll be okay. At least I'll have a running car. That's numero uno on my list right now.
Sorry for being misunderstood,What I was saying was not to get sold on the car before you even test drive it.I was sold on the Fsvt but it seems less of a car look at the sticker price on your csvt 23 thousand and change in 98,99,00 know look at the fsvt 24 thousand and change for a lesser car but has a warranty,but if you went through 2 motors since 98 no warranty will cover the way you abuse your car.
P.S If still sold on a fsvt and like YELLOW and live in oregon I might know wre to get a new 03 fsvt for 17+
Originally posted by GRN99SVT:
Sorry for being misunderstood,What I was saying was not to get sold on the car before you even test drive it.I was sold on the Fsvt but it seems less of a car look at the sticker price on your csvt 23 thousand and change in 98,99,00 know look at the fsvt 24 thousand and change for a lesser car but has a warranty,but if you went through 2 motors since 98 no warranty will cover the way you abuse your car.
P.S If still sold on a fsvt and like YELLOW and live in oregon I might know wre to get a new 03 fsvt for 17+
You're saying *I* killed my motors?! First of all, I haven't owned the car since 98, I've only owned it since the beginning of last year. I made the mistake of buying it without getting it checked out first. It died within a year of me buying it. I may enjoy a spirited drive every once in a while, but I didn't beat up on my car. The SECOND engine started messing up 3 months after installation. Most likely an issue with the engine, as I never (and still don't) took the car above 4k RPMs.
I understand that its less of a car. I can deal with that, I haven't been able to really DRIVE my car since last year! I don't even remember what my car performs like, its been running so bad (between the engines, fuel pump dying, catalytic converter clogging, and O2 sensors getting f'd).
in august of 2004 i would personally be suspicious of any new 2003 car. there would have to be a pretty good explination.
Originally posted by Antonio:
Originally posted by LoCoZs/c:
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
Finally, someone. Hah!
It was a nice car.....was top of the line.....heated seats, engine block heater, HID projectors, moonroof.......car was real peppy and brakes were great......Did not even need exhaust.....the tone was just right. All it needed was some tint.
You forgot to add serverly outclassed. With the SRT-4 out, only a fool would buy a FSVT. The car needs like a new engine to compete with the market. At least with the GTI you can chip the car.
SpliceVW, go with the SRT-4. The car is very,very nice.
I must be one of those "fools". I dont race, or drive much faster then the speed limit. And I dont need to have the fastest thing I can get either. 
Im still looking at getting an FSVT.
ugh - sorry to hear of the negative equity situation; sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place, w/ the $$ worries and the unreliability of the car.
if i were spending ~$21k OTD and needed a car w/ rebates to offset the neg. equity.....i'd say that an SVT focus wouldn't be a bad choice at all. it's definitely one you'd have to commit to for the long haul due to depreciation and the equity problem, but it sounds like that's not a problem.
i very seriously considered an FSVT before i bought my miata last fall - coulda found barely used '02's w/ under 6-8k miles for about $13-14k at the time, and a test drive of a new one was very pleasing. didn't like the feel of the shifter - it took me forever to find first gear in that thing for whatever reason - but other than that it's a blast. the euro-pkg recaros are very sweet, though even the non-euro seats are great too.
you might also consider the new '05 focus ST - not sure about rebates, but the 2.3L mazda engine is a pretty nice piece....not quite as aggressive styling-wise as the FSVT, but still looks pretty good.
i personally would look seriously at the SRT-4, but there's probably not enough price flexibility to help you out - and plus there are little things that bother me about the car (like the manual rear windows and no cruise control, among others).
i'd suggest the scion tC, but that's a car w/ a fixed MSRP and no rebates....so the negative equity situation presents a problem there.
you don't seem too enthralled w/ the GTI suggestion, but that (and the jetta 1.8t GLI) are also cars i'd consider - should be able to get a pretty good deal on one, and the interior is very nice, the turbo engine is pretty stout, and it has a lot of mod potential for whatever that's worth. VW reliability isn't necessarily the top of the heap, though...
i wouldn't rule out mazdas, either - might be able to swing a good deal on a 3s - 4-door or 5-door - or perhaps even a 6, since the rebates there are pretty impressive right now. if you don't need practicality, i'd earnestly suggest a miata - leftover models can be had for $6-7k off sticker from what i see on miata.net!!! can't beat the fun-to-drive factor w/ a miata, that's for sure.
my .02...
Originally posted by acrdklr:
in august of 2004 i would personally be suspicious of any new 2003 car. there would have to be a pretty good explination.
Where did that come from?
Probably one of the most helpful posts! I think I'll test drive the ST, I think I can get a rebate with that one as well. I did check actually out the GTI, it didn't have a big rebate. I could probably afford that one, but it'd be a bigger stretch.. and I personally hate the way they look. I may go test drive one though, and see what the VW dealer would give me for my car.. who knows, they might not notice any of the crap that's wrong with it. You're right about the SRT-4, not enough price flexibility. I'd pick the SVT over the Mazda3, but the Mazda6 looks nice.. but the 6 cylinder goes about $4k over my budget with the negative equity.
21K.. Get a Dodge Durango. I loved mine. Had the 5.9 liter v8. I could lay the rubber down while driving 30 mph down the street. Just punched and wham .. POWER...
Just my 2Cents...
Look at the new Mazda 3's. Great little cars and the 2.3 are strong motors.
-Andy
Originally posted by kevmic28:
21K.. Get a Dodge Durango. I loved mine. Had the 5.9 liter v8. I could lay the rubber down while driving 30 mph down the street. Just punched and wham .. POWER...
Just my 2Cents...
I think he wants a reliable vehicle
My uncle's RAM has lots of funny problems. One day the steering stopped working. I don't think that's a good thing.
edit: PLUS, what the hell are you smoking, those things START at $27. And why would I want an SUV?!
Yeah I don't think splice is looking for a SUV (maybe because he just said so). My dad's RAM has held up pretty well. He has driven it nearly 200k miles. It's a 96 v6 auto. He goes in the woods with it, highway, and city and drives it hard. He had to rebuild the top half of the engine at ~160-~180k miles, but that wasn't a big deal for him at all. Now the torque convertor is somehow cracked and rattling but the truck is still going. Considering the mileage and how hard it's been driven, I would say it's held up very well.
i think you know what you are going to get.....
FSVT.
i'd do it too if i were in your situation.
I think everyone should just agree with me so I can feel good about the decision I'll probably make.
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
I think everyone should just agree with me so I can feel good about the decision I'll probably make.
I agree. Have fun with your new car (whatever it may be).
i like the FSVT a lot. i don't see a reason for you not to get it.
Originally posted by GRN99SVT:
P.S If still sold on a fsvt and like YELLOW and live in oregon I might know wre to get a new 03 fsvt for 17+
this is where my comment came from.
A Dodge Dakota R/T can hardly get out of its own way..I highly doubt your Durango is going to...but I'm not hijacking this thread.. :-)
Originally posted by kevmic28:
21K.. Get a Dodge Durango. I loved mine. Had the 5.9 liter v8. I could lay the rubber down while driving 30 mph down the street. Just punched and wham .. POWER...
Just my 2Cents...
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
A Dodge Dakota R/T can hardly get out of its own way..I highly doubt your Durango is going to...but I'm not hijacking this thread.. :-)
i'm with ya man!
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
I think everyone should just agree with me so I can feel good about the decision I'll probably make.
OK. I named other (used) cars earlier, but when you narrow it down to new cars, I think the FSVT is a good choice. Yes, the SRT-4 is powerful and fast, but I still don't like its looks, and the inside looks cheap and cheesy, even in pictures. Maybe I'm getting old, but that's just too many tradeoffs. I'd make them for a track-only car, but not for a daily driver. I've always liked the Focus, even though a lot of people think it's ugly. I think Ford got the early kinks worked out, and you won't have to worry about pumping sand through a Duratec. It's got more aftermarket than the Contour ever did, etc, etc. Oh, and the financing seems to work out, doesn't it?
Depreciation? Only a problem if you go to sell it.
Originally posted by RogerB:
and you won't have to worry about pumping sand through a Duratec.
Say what you want but I loved my Durango. Awesome truck. Right up until some [censored] stole it and torched it in May.
What am I smoking??? Do some shopping around got mine fully loaded with leather and 4x4 for under 20k. But then again Used some rebates that not a lot of people know about. Like 4k off for a Dodge buyers incentive rebate. IE because it was my second Dodge bought from a Dodge dealer I got and extra 4k off. Check with the ford website and the dealer I think they have the same program but for less off.
BTW I just voiced my opinion. You dont have to a bunch of asses about it.
Originally posted by kevmic28:
BTW I just voiced my opinion. You dont have to a bunch of asses about it.
hey, you're the one that says it can lay rubber at a 30 roll..... 
btw... do you know a james hill from newnan?
Nope dont know him, I just moved here a year ago from Texas. had to keep my paycheck comming in.
I have just one thing to say to the people that said get a neon...
