Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 8 of 14 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 13 14
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,467
A
Hard-core CEG\'er
Offline
Hard-core CEG\'er
A
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,467
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
That racism accusation is quite unfounded. The 'Buy American' campaign was not born at a backyard B-B-Q of sheet wearing hicks (probably not anyway...). It was a call to arms by the unions to support union labor, and embraced by the politicians at the time to shore up the domestic economy. Keep American dollars in American pockets, and support American workers kinda thing. It was Nationalistic in nature, not a racial divide. After all, not every American worker is a white guy from Mississippi.

Let's keep things in their proper historical perspective and not practice revisionist history.




I am not talking about Pro-American being racist. IIRC, there is no conclusive evidence stating that a car made here in America is better then a car made in Mexico, Germany or even Japan for that matter. That is where the ignorance and yes even underlying racism comes into play.

Look at it like this. If you KNOW for a fact that Mexican workers build below quality cars then VW and Ford should know that too, right? Why would they even to waste money on recalls?

So, they must have faith in the quality of the Mexican workers. Maybe some of you all should too.

Last edited by Antonio; 07/09/04 04:26 PM.

Now I hate America? That is a new one to me.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,280
C
Hard-core CEG'er
Offline
Hard-core CEG'er
C
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,280
Ya'll quit talkin 'bout us rednecks. We good folks.


2000 Contour SE 2.5L ATX - Toreador Red 2001 VW Golf GLS 2.0L MTX - Tornado Red Buy my possessed VCR!!
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867
R
Hard-core CEG'er
Offline
Hard-core CEG'er
R
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,867
Wanting or desiring a European car over a Japanese car, or a US car built in Mexico has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with culture.

I have two Fords in my garage. One of them was designed and built in large extent by and for the European market and the other was a product of Detroit through and through. The former, my Contour, is and has been an excellent vehicle befitting its reputation as an enthusiasts' sedan. The latter, my Windstar, is a piece of utter crap. Granted it's only one data point, but the fact is that Europeans demand more from their cars, and Ford of Europe, before Ford went "global" was a whole different animal than Ford of NA. Guess what? The European staff of Ford Global is still European (mostly.) German engineers are still products of their outstanding educational system, and like it or not, German cars were outstanding during the dark ages of Detroit protectionism, when US cars really were crap.

Japan makes excellent cars, too, but before TQM and the industrial "revolution" that occurred after WWII (helped largely by American industrial assistance) "Made in Japan" was a joke. It took a long time, and a string of really good products, before that reputation turned around. Now "made in Japan" means quality. "Hecho En Mexico" is in somewhat of a transition. Mexico is not known for stellar education or great engineers. This says nothing about a person's ability or intelligence, but a nation's ability to mold talent and capitalize on the gifts of its population. Does Mexico deserve its bad rep? It used to, but I've heard people say that the Mexican Contours had fewer quality problems than the KC versions. True? Maybe, but it points to a turning in public perception.

So what's wrong with US cars? US management philosopy? Unions? Yankee culture? I say all of these and probably more. Racism? Not.







Function before fashion. '96 Contour SE "Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,397
F
Hard-core CEG'er
Offline
Hard-core CEG'er
F
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,397
Originally posted by Antonio:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
That racism accusation is quite unfounded. The 'Buy American' campaign was not born at a backyard B-B-Q of sheet wearing hicks (probably not anyway...). It was a call to arms by the unions to support union labor, and embraced by the politicians at the time to shore up the domestic economy. Keep American dollars in American pockets, and support American workers kinda thing. It was Nationalistic in nature, not a racial divide. After all, not every American worker is a white guy from Mississippi.

Let's keep things in their proper historical perspective and not practice revisionist history.




I am not talking about Pro-American being racist. IIRC, there is no conclusive evidence stating that a car made here in America is better then a car made in Mexico, Germany or even Japan for that matter. That is where the ignorance and yes even underlying racism comes into play.

Look at it like this. If you KNOW for a fact that Mexican workers build below quality cars then VW and Ford should know that too, right? Why would they even to waste money on recalls?

So, they must have faith in the quality of the Mexican workers. Maybe some of you all should too.




I don't recall anyone here saying that a car made in mexico was of lower quality. Quit trying to make people who like to "buy american" out to be racists...it's ignorant paranoia and it doesn't fit. And I don't really care what happened on some stupid messageboard to make you think that....since when is some dumbass internet messageboard a proper representation of the average U.S. citizen?

Kinda ironic how you get mad about "racists" blanketing a whole group of people yet you do the same by saying that these "buy american" types are racists. And before you try it...I am in no way racist but I am sick of people WHINING and MAKING UP racism where it doesn't exists...save that crap for the REAL RACISM issues that unfortunately still exist.


Formerly known as Sneaku I MISS MY BABY!!! '00 Blk CSVT #1087/2150 built 12/23/99
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
S
Hard-core CEG\'er
Offline
Hard-core CEG\'er
S
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Quote:

Everyone loves to point out that Camrys and Accords are built in the US. But what does that really mean? The majority of the parts come from Japan. The vast majority of the engineering, marketing, sales support, etc. was done in Japan. And finally, the majority of the profits go back over there too.




US Marketing and Sales Support is not handled from Japan; it's handled by the US subsidiaries of the respective companies.

And who cares where the profits go? The US got all it's taxes from the sale and income, and most of those profits will probably be re-invested back in our economy in the form of new facilities which will in turn provide more jobs.

So, let's see, they provided jobs to thousands of American Autoworkers, most of whom were hired from labor pools laid-off when American companies sent their labor to Mexico, they build facilities here hiring thousands of construction workers, source out billions in parts and employ tens of thousands more people, pay what amounts to probably more in taxes to the government than the Big 3 does, and in the end their cars will probably have a lower foreign parts content than your "American" car.

Take my Mazda6 -- a "Japanese" car, made from parts sourced almost entirely within the US (Engine: Mexico; Trans: Japan), built in a UAW factory in Michigan literally right alongside Ford workers now building Mustangs.


2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,155
P
Hard-core CEG\'er
Offline
Hard-core CEG\'er
P
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,155
I sit back, as I do my college homework, and laugh
bwahahahaha
I have to admit, pissing someone off is fun. I do it daily. I aggravate hourly and in fact, I annoy by the second!

Still, when crazy people come onto a forum and complain MY CAR SUCKS I just want to make them a Screaming Speedbump.

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 864
T
Veteran CEG\'er
Offline
Veteran CEG\'er
T
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 864
Originally posted by Matt R:
At least when we drive a Contour we are driving something made right here in America- not Japan! And of course there will always be some specific cars that have something wrong with them all the time- you just got bad luck, heh, just like your car loan @ 19%. Someone like you doesn't deserve to be behind the wheel of a Contour! Goodbye and make sure the door hits you on the way out.




Uh... Check out Honda, They're made in Ohio, illionis, and Tennesse. Since when were those areas Tokyo suburbs?

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 864
T
Veteran CEG\'er
Offline
Veteran CEG\'er
T
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 864
Originally posted by bxd20:
Everyone loves to point out that Camrys and Accords are built in the US. But what does that really mean? The majority of the parts come from Japan. The vast majority of the engineering, marketing, sales support, etc. was done in Japan. And finally, the majority of the profits go back over there too.

Pretty much all an "American built" Accord gives to our country's economy is the wage of the person that assembles it. And if I'm not mistaken, assembling a vehicle is a drop in the bucket when you compare the materials costs, engineering, and general overhead. I would bet we're talking 1% of the car's sticker price (though I've often wondered the exact amount and have never seen a number. should be easy enough, just take the total value of cars produced and contrast to the salary of the assembly line workers in the plant).

So don't take this as "racist", you should feel free to buy whatever you want in a free market economy. But PLEASE do not KID yourself that an Accord is MORE AMERICAN than a Mexican assembled Contour.

Brian
99 SVT




Go to your Honda or Toyota dealer and look at the Window Sticker. Listed will be the American Parts Content, this will be listed as a percentage. Then go look at the Focus and check the American parts Content. You will see that an Accord is MORE American than that focus.

In addition, your statement regarding engineering, marketing and such for Japanese cars being done in Japan. The engineering for the Contour and Focus was done in Europe. Porsche and Cosworth designed, engineered, and tuned the SVT engine and transmission as well as the suspension. How much money went from hot dogs to kraut there?

In regards to marketing; this is done on a regional basis, never global. Honda is not going to hire an Advertising firm located in Tokyo to create ads for the US market, instead will hire a US ad agency, or multiple US ad agencies (as is usually the case) for all US marketing.

Once you boil everything down to its core, nothing in America is purely "American", but rather a hodge-podge or "boiling pot" of product and labor from around the world. Much like this great Country's culture and people. Unlessit's an indeginous plant, show me one thing that is truly, purely 100% American.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,395
T
Hard-core CEG\'er
Offline
Hard-core CEG\'er
T
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,395
Well, I love my 1995 Ford Contour, I love Ford vechiles. Ford pretty much invented the automobile. Because of Ford Motor Company, we have the Mass production line. Before ford vehciles, Cars were expensive. I like the fact that because of the company that made the Contour, we have affordable cars. I will always be a Ford Owner. I will accept a few General Motor vechiles, but when it comes to buying a brand new car, it must be a Ford (Or Ford related). Thats the kind of person I am.


My 1995 Ford contour, is running great, and only problems she has is probaly cus i started it. But you know, sometimes a bad owner makes the car run like [censored]. I will never know. I blame the owner when a car goes wrong...


Former owner of a 1995 Ford Contour GL w/ 2.0L ATX Proud owner of a 2005 Ford Taurus SE 3.0L V6 Vulcan --Looking for Commodore stuff (Drives, Units, Amiga, games, etc)If anyone has any of this laying around and wants it gone, lemme know --
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,231
L
Hard-core CEG\'er
Offline
Hard-core CEG\'er
L
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,231
I work in the automotive sector. I have seen spec sheets for companies like Ford, GM, Honda and Toyota. Most North American automotive companies have specs that are sometimes more than twice the tolerance than Japanese. Now call me crazy but that seems to me that the Japanese autos would be better built than N.A. But to look at one peice of the puzzle is no way to see the full picture. The reason I bought my Mystique was because it was good value for the money, good shape and low on klicks. You wouldnt believe the backlash I got for buyin a Ford. Now I know youll all might bash me for saying this but the next car I buy (hopefully it will be when I want to) will most likely be a Honda. For me they just make better products. Personally I think the whole made in US or made in Japan fight is pretty lame. Big companies will take the money and keep it for themselves. Even if a company is based in the US. That money doesnt go into the US. It just goes into stockholders pockets. The only thing Id really look at is how many people are employed by that company and where they work. I live in Canada. We make parts that are shipped to Illinois and N. Carolina. There they are assembled with other components (ie transmissions) and then shipped back to Canada to be assembled into the finished car. So am I silly to say I shouldnt by a Japanese car? The only thing that wasnt made in North America was the raw steel which was shipped from Japan.


95 Merc Stique Zetec 2.0 Auto
Page 8 of 14 1 2 6 7 8 9 10 13 14

Moderated by  GTO Pete, Trapps_dup1 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5