Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Zetec Maintenance Is the timing belt tensioner adjustable?

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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I think it anybody could work on a car. I think even someone like my mom, who acts like she could never work on a car, actually could, if she wanted to. That's why I wanna design cars, not just work on them, hopefully (and I'm sure it will be) it'll be more of a challenge.

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Could she do a timing chain and a water pump on a quad engine, or figure out and repair a reoccuring no-start problem on a BMW, replace a heater core on a F-body, while the customer waits because they're already late for an appointment? She's up to the challenge, expert?

Dream on.

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Not overnight of course. You didn't crawl outta your momma's womb able to do it either. I said if she wanted to she could. Meaning she could do the same thing as you, read a book/look at a dvd/cd and figure it out. If it was worth it to her, and if she wouldn't mind getting dirty, then yeah, I'd imagine she'd be up to the challenge.

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Good, tell her that we start work at 7AM...your mother's job today will be an evaporator, tune-up, rear struts and right-front wheel bearing on the '96 blue Subaru. Has to be finished by closing tomorrow, no later. Oh, and one of the heat shields is rattling on the exhaust, but tell her not to worry about that, I'll handle that myself.

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I won't even reply to your other replies, because you just try to change the subject and not even comprehend what I say or make a very good response.

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I tried to change the subject?

b.t.w. I expect your mother's shirt to be tucked in...and she doesn't need to worry about packing her lunch, that'll be on me.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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Didn't say that, I said I'd rather help someone do it themselves, rather than tell them the "by the book" way which they can easily find themselves (either in a book or on dvd/cd).

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You'd have them cut corners, instead of doing it right while they had it apart?

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No, I'd have them do it right, but without buying tools they don't absolutely need, or have them do anything they don't have to do.

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You'll dictate to them what tools they can buy and not buy? What do you plan to do, block their way when the Mac tool man arrives?

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That would be a know-nothing attitude. But I've talked to mechanics that act like they are the ONLY person to ever work on a car and that the owner doesn't know anything about automobiles. You definitely seem to be one of those.

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You think your backyard graduation can keep up with my experience, expert?

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As far as the any job I've done so far on the zetec, yes.

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A very limited yes?

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Keyword number 2 and 3: another state

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1st Keyword: Dealer...so if his source for the one part is the dealer, why would you have him find another source for the tensioner spring and bolt that they already have, right there?

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Put the keywords together, DEALER from ANOTHER STATE. Same source buddy.

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But I thought you wanted him to find a seperate source for each item. Why not just buy it at one place, seeing that the spring and bolt are dealer items, and he was already thinking about getting the pulley from the dealer...

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Hmm, I work on my car out of necessity, and I give advice based on my experience and what obviously works. Even if you don't like it, other people appreciate it, and you can shove your head into your thousand dollar dvd to figure stuff out if you don't like how me and others on here do it ourselves.

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You can keep your files and cardboard, and you can just imagine what you would do with a professional shop that is packed full with real nice equipment and boxes that are stuffed with every tool you'd ever need...while trying to tell me that doing it right, following procedure, is somehow the wrong way to do it.

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I'm not saying it's wrong to use the "correct tools" and the "correct" procedure, but no need to do all that if you don't have the "correct" tools already and if you want to save time. There are some cases where you can save money and/or time by substituting tools,

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Using the right tools saves time, it doesn't waste it...and the right tools make for a better job, not an inferior job.

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changing procedure,etc. that will still result in a perfect job. Like I said, ask countless zetec owners on here (the ones that don't have flapping timing belts, the ones that do have flapping belts have either never changed their timing belt or have gone to so called "professionals" or in a few cases, just don't know what they were doing and screwed their stuff up).

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LMAO, the profesionals are the ones that will most likely have the right tools and will know about the outlined procedure of adjusting the cam pullies during the belt replacement, going the extra distance to get it perfect, when the DIYs have never even heard about it because their paperback never even clued them in on that procedure.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Originally posted by CRZYDRVR:

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My Dad (and probably Kremits too, probably about the same age) come from the old-school way of thinking. If you dont have the tool, you still gotta fix the problem. No need to go out and spend $$ if you dont have to.

Can we all just get along now?

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Yeah, definitely same kinda dads.

I'm all for getting along. I think meangreen is real worked up about this and thinks I'm really worked up about it too. I'm not though, I just like to discuss/argue stuff.

Meangreen, it's OK to not know everything and to be wrong sometimes. Every one is wrong every know and then. It's also OK to do things differently in different situations. Not everybody does everything the same way. Everybody can't do everything the same way. It must be nice to be able to afford thousands of dollars of tools, and to throw away aftermarket exhausts,etc. but most of us can't do that,,, so we make do with what works. And when I say make do with what works, we do it because it WORKS. And if it works, even if it's not by the book, then it's OK by us.

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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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People like Paul are why we can manage to do our own timing belt changes while not being "professionals". Paul delivers correct, helpful, and precise information. While the "professional" just says what the book says and argues endlessly.

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No, when I have more time, I'll address Paul's bad advice and self-confusion. He's wrong, but you believe his carboard theories and his one tooth allowance rule/crap, it's only because you don't know enough to know, and he knows just enough to be dangerous...but he got extremely long-winded with his amateurish rant, that's what convinced you, I'm sure.

b.t.w. Your mother better be leaving for work, soon...our shop opens up for business in 45 minutes. /

Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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Wrong. I can probably repeat what I did before...order it online and get it in 2 days...or at worst, order it off of one of the weekly tool men, and have it in the next week, not a month.

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Guess the Ford dealerships don't know to order it online.

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And they never think to ask the local Cornwell or Matco tool men, etc... about those tools, each week that they're allowed to drive right on up to their service bays?

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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The tool IS for timing belt changes. I don't know what you're going on about. Are we even talking about the same thing?

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Pretty hard to tell, with you in the conversation. I'm trying to be as clear as possible about the distinction of exactly which jobs are being talked about for each point, and you keep coming back with confusion.

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We're talking about timing belt service and you're the one that brought your cardboard and one tooth rules to this conversation, not me.

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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Are you talking about the tool [flat bar] that locks the cams? Fool, that alignment tool [flat bar] is an absolute must in order to set the cams in the "Valve Overlap" position...the settings have to be accurate.

Who said it was okay? You? The same person that said cardboard would work as an alignment tool.

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If it's an "absolute must", then how come Kremit and I both got our engines to run perfectly without needing it? Coincidence? Luck? Did we leave saucers of milk out for the engine fairies?

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You don't need to align your cams...really? When you removed your belt's tension, do you remember what happened? One of your cams jumped for you, yes...even tho' everything was set at #1 TDC...correct? Why? Because it was under tension and didn't want to stay in the exact same position, the very moment that you started to release tension? And you claim that a tool isn't needed? LOL...then why did Kremit make one/use one...are you pretending that others don't use them?

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That's why I say cardboard, or nothing at all, is okay --

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Because your cams are floating in mid-air?

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because when my friend and I went to the trouble of fabricating and using the precision alignment tool, all we accomplished with it was to show that the alignment was perfectly good already, just as it had been before the engine was taken apart. Because we kept the existing sprocket alignment on the camshafts. (And this wasn't just a belt change, this was a total teardown of the engine.)

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Then how come about 99.9% of the time, at least, the alignment tool doesn't just flop in there like a piece of cardboard...the cams have to be rotated with an outside force to make the tool fit into the slots...because the cam is under its own pressure/

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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The three tools are required because on the zetec you sometimes have to readjust the cams...

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Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:

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Yes, you do, but not as a normal part of a timing belt change! When you do need to, then the alignment tool is required.

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What are you going on about? The alignment tool will always be needed. What's wrong? You're unable to even use the proper terms for the tools?

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I'm being as precise as I can.

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You're doing a terrible job.

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Camshaft alignment tool = flat plate of precision thickness. Cam sprocket tool = long arm with two pegs a few inches apart (another thing I have a homemade version of). Crank positioning tool = the pin thing. All three are needed if you adjust the timing of the camshaft sprockets on the camshafts. None of the three are needed (though some are helpful) if you are only adjusting the timing of the belt teeth on the sprockets. The former is a fine adjustment, the latter is a coarse adjustment. That is why the first requires precise measurements and the second requires only rough ones. I don't know how I can be any more precise and careful in spelling out the distinctions I'm making.

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By starting over...and you got it just back-a**wards...the alignment tool is the coarse adjuster, the sprocket holding tool is for going in and doing the fine adjustment [fact]...because, silly, once the belt is installed, everything is set but not just right, almost ready to go, you use the sprocket holder to back off the cam bolts...and the belt will get tighter, like magic, even though you probably won't actually see it happen when the tensioner pulls its little trick.

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As far as I can tell at this point, you are not arguing with any one specific point I'm making, but just making a vague general denial in which I can't even tell which specific point you're trying to attack. I'm left wondering if you're the one who is confused between the two separate jobs being discussed and maybe not using the terminology clearly.

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You don't know enough to understand what's happening...it's as easy as that.

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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I think that someone said that the peg is only needed when the cams need to be moved...so...why...the belt is meant to work as the cam holding tool, instead of an actual tool, allowing the crank to stay locked while the belt gets destroyed?

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"Belt as a cam holding tool??" Now you're just throwing out general confusion. Your idea of what you think I'm saying is practically the opposite of what I said, which was just that the sprocket holding tool is another item that is needed for sprocket timing adjustment but not for a timing belt change.

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Absolutely not true. There are times that readjusting the cams is absolutely needed when doing the belt replacement. You can't just ignore the step just because you're too lazy or too dense. Did the factory let the engine leave out with misaligned cams? No. That's why the tools are needed and why the book says to get it closer than you already have if you can't put the tool right back into the slot, right after you just removed it.

And the timing peg is used for only one reason...when you grab up that belt with your hands and install it on the engine with your hands...no matter how ruff you try to get while removing the slack and getting the belt over the exhaust cam...no matter how much you growl and puff, the crankshaft will not move on you, not the least little bit.

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No, the belt is not used as a cam holding tool. There is no need for a tool because you don't need to do any cam holding.

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The peg/crank holder is doing its job at holding the crank, the alignment bar is doing its job at holding the cams, while *installing* the belt.

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Just stick them right side up and slap the belt on, then verify that the crank and the cams are facing the correct direction at the same time, within an error of 4.5 degrees, which is pretty hard to miss.

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4.5 degress...as in the alignment
tool will NOT fit back into the provided slots on the camshafts?!!...even tho' they're stuck up in the right direction? Darn...guess you'll have to loosen off the tensioner, reinstall the tool...and try it aGAIN...still too loose? Crap...better dig out the ol' cam pulley holding tool

Originally posted by Stryker:

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ya know meangreen, nobody has said it, but i will, you are being a real [censored] , you think these people give a [censored]? i couldnt give 2, except for the fact that you are badgering/flaming fellow members. you are not arguing, your being a dick...that comment about kremits mom was totally uncalled for. i actually had some respect for you until you said that.

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Go suck yourself. He's the fool that brought his mother into this. You believed him when he wailed that she could be a professional mechanic? You believed me when I said that her shirt needed to be tucked in? He should have never used her to try to make his point. And if you're crying because the fellow members are needing to try and make me believe that by doing it right is somehow doing it wrong, just so they can argue with me about timing belts even tho' their frustration still comes from what I did with my old exhaust system, not my fault that they're finding any excuse that they can to dispute me.

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i could care less what you do with your stuff, cause you paid for it. i have stayed out of it till now, but i cant any longer...that comment was so harsh, that i am taking it personally, and it wasnt even directed at me. my mother (as well as his and yours im sure) has forgotten more about most things than you (or I) will EVER know. and they deserve a little more respect than they get from MOTHERF****** like you.

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my mom makes more money than she knows what to do with, and she STILL has to put up with [censored] like you everyday. STFU and quit being a prick . that said, have a nice day.

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She reads this forum?

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oh, BTW, i take my car to a professional that i know and i TRUST. the same people that have been working on my/my parents cars for over 20 years. get over yourself, your not the best. and i only take it there when i dont have time to do [censored] myself.

consider yourself OWN3D. i am reporting ths thread to a moderator in the hopes that it will be locked. this is rediculous and a waste of bandwidth/siteresources...not to mention a waste of fu(k!ng time.

oh and another thing, my dad can tell me exactly whats wrong with my engine 97% of the time just by listnening to it...if its engine related he can hear/feel it. so dont give me this "times have changed bullsh!t" an engine is still an engine and the basic concept behind it (ecpecially the inline format that our 4 cylinders have) has not changed in 100 years...

and dont give me the [censored] about dual overhead cams being different, they are still cams...they are jsut relocated so the valves dont need rods to open and close...it adds horsepower too, but they are also easier to work on/with, and they make things more compact. if you are any kind of mechanic, you should know this and agree.

ok im done.

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I won't even respond to that over-emotional and inaccurate slop of yours...I'll just instead.

Originally posted by Stryker:

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go for it, im done here, i have said what i wanted to...i dont belittle the mechanics profession, my grandfather was a mechanic for 45 [censored] years, so go blow yourself.

laught at me all you want, i could give 2 [censored], as i said.

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Show me where I said you ever did belittle the profession. Kremit made the comment, not you, so get over it and calm down.