Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Zetec Maintenance Is the timing belt tensioner adjustable?

Originally posted by caltour:

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I just got back from the mechanic's shop. He took the top timing belt cover and middle timng belt cover off the motor, and found the problem: the timing belt idler pulley on the lower right side is disintegrating. It's missing large chunks! A fine quality part that lasted for 27,000 miles.

The mechanic wanted $400 to replace the pully. He said the pully costs $60 and the rest is labor. He said I really should also replace the belt, the tensioner and the other two idler pullies, and that would be an extra $200, for a total of $600.

I declined (too expensive). So I had the car towed home just now. I've got my repair manual and some hand tools, and I am going to try to replace the idler pully myself. yikes

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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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It is must be nice to be so over paid that you can throw away aftermarket parts.

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Don't whine. I charge fair prices [never over *suggested list* and my labor rate is about $10.00 per hour less than most in my area] because I'm such a nice guy.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I do agree on one thing, the cams should not be their own camshaft holders, BUT again, a special tool is not needed,

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What's wrong with using the right tool? Isn't that why *you* went to a professional when you had your gears/pulleys changed...because they had that *special* tool [the same tool that I use when doing the belt replacement, in the first place] that you didn't have?

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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you can use a wrench on a certain part of the cams to hold them.

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Not all year models...and why didn't you do that? You're the expert that says it's so simple to do, using makeshift tools...why did you bug a professional with your pulley job?

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Though I didn't even have to do that because there is another way to hold them as well, but I don't suggest it for everyone to do.

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Love to hear about it.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I guess you don't even know what kind of file I am talking about. A large file that is used to sharpen blades (not fingernails), a file that is in the same shape/size as the ford tool will perform the same job as the ford tool.

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I'm dealing with cams, so I'll use the right tool, always, not some file that's designed for another task. And when I need a file, I'll use a file, not a rock or a Greek man's chin whiskers.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Anyways, I obviously know how to work on a zetec (yes A zetec, so I guess if I had to work on another, I couldn't do it, because I've only worked on A zetec yet it still runs fine ).

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Could you make a living at doing it, expert?

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I think you'd be a mechanic I would avoid, number 1 because you probably over charge for a SIMPLE timing belt replacement, because you think you have to buy hundreds of tools to do it.

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Any decent mechanic does exactly what I do [buy tools for the cars that they're working on], except they probably charge more...and probably even sell parts to customers that aren't really needed, but we never do that at our shop. Fact is, every mechanic at our shop that has ever tried to over-sell a job, has been terminated.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Yet I can change it in my backyard. Any decent mechanic will know how to change a timing belt (correctly) on a zetec and will already have the tools to do it (even if they aren't all ford specific tools).

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Can they make a living at doing in their back yard?

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I know the performance shop that installed my cam gears didn't have all the Ford tools yet they managed to install my cam gears perfectly

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By using...let me guess...an OTC tool, which is the same tool as Ford's tool?

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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and in less time (less cost) than they had originally quoted. But I'm sure you could find something to argue about with the owner of the performance shop, an owner that builds and races various race cars. There will always be a "by the book" way and then there will be the "what works" way.

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He uses what works...or does he use special tools that are required when working on and building engines?

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I go by the "what works" way because it's cheaper, takes less time, and guess what?,,, it works.

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You'd never get hired as a mechanic, I trust.

As a mechanic, your customers expect you to use professional tools and to have the proper training and experience. That's what they're paying for.

Using the right tools save time, they don't make the job harder to do. LOL.

If a customer asked you to scan their computer and to fix the problem, would you whip out a paper clip, w/ a big smile on your face, or would you show them your $10,000 MODIS and tell them that this is at least as good as what most professional mechanics are using, today.

If a customer had a misfire problem their late-model DIS, Direct-Fire, etc, you'd grab up some vacuum hoses and a test light, or maybe a screwdriver and some rubber gloves, or would you ask them to please pull up to your $18,000.00 Diagnostic Center, telling them that it's not the most expensive, but it's at least as good as what most professional shops are using, today?

And timing belts are simple? Tell that to the shade-tree b**b that doesn't do it right the first time, and ends up having their car towed to the shop for a $1,500.00 repair because they expected their engine to be a free-wheeling design, and it wasn't.

Originally posted by caltour:

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I just got back from the mechanic's shop. He took the top timing belt cover and middle timng belt cover off the motor, and found the problem: the timing belt idler pulley on the lower right side is disintegrating. It's missing large chunks! A fine quality part that lasted for 27,000 miles.

The mechanic wanted $400 to replace the pully. He said the pully costs $60 and the rest is labor. He said I really should also replace the belt, the tensioner and the other two idler pullies, and that would be an extra $200, for a total of $600.

I declined (too expensive). So I had the car towed home just now. I've got my repair manual and some hand tools, and I am going to try to replace the idler pully myself. yikes

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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Originally posted by caltour:

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I just got back from the mechanic's shop. He took the top timing belt cover and middle timng belt cover off the motor, and found the problem: the timing belt idler pulley on the lower right side is disintegrating. It's missing large chunks! A fine quality part that lasted for 27,000 miles.

The mechanic wanted $400 to replace the pully. He said the pully costs $60 and the rest is labor. He said I really should also replace the belt, the tensioner and the other two idler pullies, and that would be an extra $200, for a total of $600.

I declined (too expensive). So I had the car towed home just now. I've got my repair manual and some hand tools, and I am going to try to replace the idler pully myself. yikes

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Labor should be less than $200 for everything. You can usually get parts cheaper yourself from www.fordpartsonline.com If you don't think you can do it yourself, you can find a more reasonable mechanic and purchase the parts yourself. If you are just replacing the idler pulley and you have all the stuff to reset the tensioner, then it should be a fairly straight forward job, as long as you do everything just right.

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Originally posted by caltour:

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Meangreen, do you know if I can replace that lower idler pulley without having to reset the timing? My Haynes manual (I know, I know) seems to indicate that I can replace the pulley without removing the belt. It looks like I could just fasten the belt tightly with clamps (so it doesn't slip out of time) and then just replace the idler pully. What do you think?

Like you suggested, I am considering buying the entire timing belt kit. But the kit costs over five times the cost of the one idler pully that's broken ($39 from Signature Lincoln Mercury). The other pullies and the belt have no apparent wear or damage.

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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Though obviously we disagree on some views, which I'm tired of arguing about,

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Though obviously we disagree on some views, which I'm tired of arguing about,

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It's only because my advice is professional, and you're trying to discount it and pretend that somehow it is wrong, because you're not speaking from a professional stand-point.


No it's not. It's because I'm sick and barely can type right now. It is right to a degree, that some correct tools are needed to do certain things on a car. But not again, a piece of metal is a piece of metal when it comes to the cam holding tool, ask anybody on here and they'll tell you if it's long enough/slim enough/strong enough, then it'll work. Though I'm looking at it more from a diy stand point, but I still wouldn't have a problem with a mechanic using a $2 file instead of a $30 piece of metal from ford to keep the cams in the correct position. I don't see any other professionals in this thread, so why are you even talking about what a professional should do? A professional knows what to have/do so you don't have to put it on here. I'd rather help somebody do it themselves. You're the kinda mechanic (like many, not all) that has a know-it-all attitude that would cause me, as a customer, to walk right out of your shop and go else where.

And I don't think the same of all "professionals", I've been to two professional shops, and they couldn't make my CEL go away, but I spent more time with it and got it to go away, and this time stay away. All with my $85 worth of computer scanning software, and my cheap tools/autozone loaner tools.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I agree with what you're telling caltour for the work he is gonna do. I would get the spring and post for the tensioner (not from your local ford dealer usually, even for cheap things like that,

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I said local dealer, because it appeared that Caltour was going to his local Mercury/Ford dealer to get his guide pulley anyway.

Actually, it appears he was planning to get the pulley from a dealer in another state, but whatever.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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it's still cheaper to go through fordpartsonline or one of the CEG friendly dealers) as a safety measure. I would go ahead and do everything so you know it's done right and you don't have to do it again,, but I guess if you don't have the money then that's not an option.

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So would I, but since Caltour claims that everything else looks undamaged, and since it's not an interference engine, won't really hurt to do just what's needed, right now.

Agreed, except it's not fun to go back and do it all again.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Meangreen I could make money doing repairs, but I don't have the proper tools. When I did my timing belt I used my dad's tool, none of which were ford tools, just breaker bars, sockets, and torque wrenches. But I don't really enjoy working on cars that much, but I do love cars, especially engines and suspensions, so I'm going into mechanical engineering.

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Good luck...and not saying that you couldn't learn, if that's what you want to do, but unless you specialize in just a few areas, a mechanic or two can get together and spend $100,000 real fast, for just hand tools and a few black boxes, not even counting shop equipment, specialized testers [quality], machines to service vehicles, repair A/C, etc...then you can add another $150,000 - $250,000, easily, if you're not too big of an operation.

Just saying that if working on modern vehicles is your profession, a large tackle box full of basic tools won't get you very far...and for mechanics that do timing belt replacements, consistently, will most likely invest in the proper tools to do the best job that they can, in the most efficient manner possible.

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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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No it's not. It's because I'm sick and barely can type right now. It is right to a degree, that some correct tools are needed to do certain things on a car. But not again, a piece of metal is a piece of metal when it comes to the cam holding tool,

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It's not a holding tool, it's an alignment tool.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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ask anybody on here and they'll tell you if it's long enough/slim enough/strong enough, then it'll work. Though I'm looking at it more from a diy stand point, but I still wouldn't have a problem with a mechanic using a $2 file instead of a $30 piece of metal from ford to keep the cams in the correct position.

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I don't believe that. If a mechanic whipped out a backbone of a rainbow trout and said..."Hey, it works!"...you'd probably think...Hell, why am I paying this guy to do this, I could do that myself.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I don't see any other professionals in this thread, so why are you even talking about what a professional should do?

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Didn't Caltour try going to the professionls? You've been to the pros, others have been to the pros...so my advice should come in handy for those that go to the pros, and even the ones that don't.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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A professional knows what to have/do so you don't have to put it on here. I'd rather help somebody do it themselves.

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You think you know more than I do? How is knowing less better?

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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You're the kinda mechanic (like many, not all) that has a know-it-all attitude that would cause me, as a customer, to walk right out of your shop and go else where.

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SO...if you were to ask me about your car, and I were to say..."gee, d'uh...I don't know. D'oh!" while digging at my ear with an inkpen, you'd get real impressed and hand me your keys?

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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And I don't think the same of all "professionals", I've been to two professional shops, and they couldn't make my CEL go away, but I spent more time with it and got it to go away, and this time stay away. All with my $85 worth of computer scanning software, and my cheap tools/autozone loaner tools.

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Must have been fairly simple...and I hope that you enjoyed paying those professionals your money. They seemed not to be "know-it-alls"...just how you like it.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Actually, it appears he was planning to get the pulley from a dealer in another state, but whatever.

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Keyword: Dealer

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I guess you didn't read/don't know what I said. I'm going into mechanical engineering. It's where I design what you work on.

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And you said that you think you coud make a living at it, but you don't like working on cars. So I guess we're back to my original question about you making a living at working on cars, since you're giving out advice about working on cars, not designing them.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I have to disagree with you on the price of tools. The average shop owner will spend $100k+, even $200k+ on tools,etc. (this is doing more than just timing belts though,, there are actually plenty of small shops that just do small things like timing belts and spend comparably very little on tools),

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That's why I made mention of those that limit themselves to just certain jobs.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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but the average mechanic doesn't spend that much.

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I've seen mechanics spend $7,500+ just for a bottom tool box. And most mechanics I know from surrounding shops are expected to furnish all of their tools, while the *shop* takes care of the equipment...and that means that almost everyone that I see are spending $5 - $6k on OTC scanners, around $10k or so for Snap-On, etc...and that's just to get them started, has nothing to do with their other testers, their hand tools, etc...and if they don't have it, they buy it the next week when the toolman pulls up, because the others don't pass their tools around to the ones that don't like spending their own money for their own tools.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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My dad is a diesel truck mechanic and basically is the head mechanic where he works. He has spent a lot of money on tools, but by that I mean thousands, maybe $3k, $4k at most, not 10s of thousands. He has bought used tool boxs to save lots of money but of course only buys new tools. He has enough tools (save for air compressors, computers, lifts,etc.) to do basically anything to a diesel truck, and most passenger vehicles as well. I'm sure he has some specialized tools but ONLY if they are needed and no other tool can be substituted. And somehow he manages to do the job right because he doesn't want trucks coming back in to the shop.

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3k is absolutely nothing. I could [did] spend over 1k just to work on a few FWD wheel bearings/hubs, and that includes no hand tools...spent over that much [1k] for just one 3/4 drive *airgun*...$850.00 on a battery tester...$400.00 for a short tracer...$200.00 for a few sockets...just some basic stuff. But I don't work on that many diesel trucks...just work on Acuras - Volvos, and pretty much everything in between, bumper-to-bumper, like most modern shops.