Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Forced Induction Building a Custom Water - Air Intercooler

Seems there is alot of hear say on this board. I again am new here, but it seems without anyone actually pushing the limits of teh rods, how can one say what the limits are. Rods will not spontaneously combust or break once a mgical number is laid down. Mainly the concern with my experience is RPM and trying to prevent any preignition and/ot detonation. Having been into teh import community since 1996 there has always been "You cant's" But they are always proven sooner or later. You can't make a 1.8l make 800horsepower its not possible their is not size rod that can do that. The stock rods are too weak in that 3sgte (toyota 4 cyl) to go up to 9500rpm and make over 500+ whp. The aluminum block of teh sr20 cannot handle the cylinder pressure of 30+ psi without cracking... You can't make 1000+ whp on a stock toyota short block. All have been proven wrong. Why? Because someone had the balls to try something new. i seriously doubt the extra 20 ft lbs of torque you guys are talking about is going to bend stress teh rods anymore than with 20ft lbs less. I have been readin thsi board alot and have respect for three main people, Demon, Warmonger and Keyser, all have tried things and some work, some don't. Great, so now you guys have starting points. I know boost hasn't been around much in yoru community but thats why you guys should try it out, test your motor see what it really has. Prove to people that teh mustang isn't teh only car with a powerful and strong motor. Someone has to step up and really see what it can do before you go and say it can't handle it. Bench racing is for bench racers... Get off the bench!!!
That is all... And oh yeah flame suit is on and ready.
As long as you can control detonation and do not sustain max rpm for extended periods of time i would say you guys are in teh clear. Hell your rods are twice if not three times teh size of d16z rods and they can handle 350 ft lbs of tq stock... And teh stock rod ratio is terrible something like 1.9, not to mention teh pistons speed at 7500rpm is well over optimum...

Here is the problem. You have never had the honor of swaping a Duratec motor. It's not for the faint of heart or someone who has a busy schedule. You take a guy who has limited knowledge and time, encourage him to ride the razors edge and then boom. His DAILY driver is blown. That is the situation I'm trying to help some people avoid. What's worse is after the motor is blown it usually takes the turbo with it or requires a rebuild to make sure all shards are removed.

Having worked on your duratec motor, i can tell you its a drop in the hat when compared to working on the cramped engine bays of a vg30dett motor from a 300zx, or even an 3000gt. Once you guys get your upper intake off things are a breeze. I know your trying to help them out, and i praise for it every community should have someone like you and demon and warmonger. But i just don't see proof that the rods are weak. How do you know thats the razor's edge? Hell 450 ft lbs could be the razors edge... We are talking about maybe 40 ft lbs more and about 75 hp more. How do you know your not at the razors edge? Stress testing?? they won't break or bend if your tuning is in order and don't raise teh rpm limit. If its the boost prssure your worried about don't because if its a huge concern teh rod will not likely bend, your bearings will more than likely go first due to teh pressure pounding down on them. Control preignition and proper tuning and you should be in teh clear. Can someone tell me what the bore and stroke for teh engine is? And how long the rod is? I guess I am a blacksheep, i like to push limits to prove to people that things can be done.

PS: Having seen our old race car blow motors from too much rpm (broke a rod, btw this was in 96, we had the first civic coupe in the 9's as well as the 4th FWD car into teh 9's, we were there ahead of teh game before anyone could test things for us), we have never lost lost a turbo because of it.
300z engine bay
http://www.h3.dion.ne.jp/~mokei/image/z-egup.jpg

3000gt engine bay
http://www.cjbyron.com/photos/engine2.jpg

pray you don't have to work on those....

Pictures of teh old car:




BTW this car was running a t3/t4 turbo 60-1 and made over 600whp. T series turbos hadn't come across teh minds of sporct compact racers until late 98, they thought they were too big to spool. It also did not have a sleeves, and/or diferential spool... Things that you see these days are as constant as gravity...

Thansk again for listening to me, again i mean no disrespect and actually praise you guys for your sucess so for. Just trying to help see you guys go further.

Let me say first that Chris does have a good point about not wanting to risk riding the edge given the circumstances he listed. I fully understand the aspects of reliability.

However, I feel a kinship with anyone who says they like to push the limits to prove what can be done. I've been doing that since I started modifying this car several years ago.
This is the second iteration of my turbo'd engine, in the last setup I was the first person to pass 300 wHP on 91 octane and ~6-7psi boost. I sold off the header pipes from that last turbo motor and built this current turbo piping setup from scratch and off of stock gutted exhaust manifolds just to prove that it could be done more affordably. I built a system this time that could be installed comfortably for around $2500-$3000 with intercooler and the ability to do your own work. I know that the exhaust system wasn't optimal but again I had a point to prove. I hit the numbers you see in my signature, still without any additional changes to the current conservative timing setup. The other goal I have had has been the most driver friendly turbo contour made. I spend more time on driveability than I do on the actual construction of the project. Consequently the car is docile enough that anyone can drive it until pushed.
Chris will agree that I wasted more of his time with little details fine tuning the chip than over anything else.
I am going to be tweaking this system a bit more when I get back so that I can produce even more power out of the stock motor. The only way I'm going to get a good test this time is to adjust the timing. Right now I have a chip that we tuned at SF and a piggyback eManage to adjust A/F in addition. I can't afford the reburns on the chip all the time with as many different things as I try so I keep the eManage on.
A lot of effort has come together to get us all this far. None of us would have built what we have without building on the work of each other. I guess that means that we all have something to offer.

Rara,

Good to hear from you. How are things over in Ford brake land? What kind of power does the vanquish have anyway?

i thought the same thing when i read your site... Anyone that can build a coil output for the emanage to work for their contour, i have got to talk to I like your spirit. And i fully understand what Chris is saying (keyser right). I am just one that likes to see proof i guess. Having proved so many wrong, this is how things become myths... 8 years down teh road when you, chris, and demon are gone, there will be 3 or more individuals to pass on teh turbo crown to. But they will only know what you have taught them and then spew out what they know as fact. When really it wasn't fact just a conservative way of thinking. Keeping it at 330 hp and 300ft lbs. When you may have a 400hp worthy motor at your figure tips and never know it. You know what i am saying, i am not telling anyone to boost it till it blows, but be open minded, there is not limit until a limit is proven. Always remember eager minds are listening, and taking your word as if its written in stone. Trust me there will be in the next few years, "well keyser said..., Well Demon said.., Well Buck said..., Well Warmonger said..." You guys started it and will be the ones people come to. And trust me they will hang on your every word, because it is hard to come into something like forced induction when you know little about it.

This is from someone who has pushed the limit in many communities, and its true.

tweecker... I think demon has one. I know someone with one. And his will prolly be the first turbo contour with one.

It wasn't TwEECer, it was a lot more user friendly.

I'll be stuck with an AFCII and a chip to keep my SVT happy, but would like to step up a bit in tunability.