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Its pretty simple.. I think there should be a cap to when you STOP recieving welfare. A year or two and you're still not even close to a job = thrown into a "happy" camp.
The Spickle
New Car: Infra Red '04 FSVT
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The only reason I'll see it is because it may just be the best comedy of the year.
1998 SVT Contour Silver Frost for sale in Classifieds.
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Indulge me for a moment. One of your points deals with crime and the notion that increased gov't spending won't fix it. Yet every time there's a "get tough on crime" proposal, there's talk of needing money for more prison beds and more cops on the streets. Granted, I'm not referring to eliminating crime 100% and I assume you are not either so we're NOT discussing idealistic unattainable utopias here. Are you saying don't INCREASE that form of governmental spending; or instead saying don't even spend as much as we do now, cut it, as it doesn't work anyway?
Do you mean to imply that increasing spending on law enforcement, prevention, corrections, is wasteful, so forget it? This is rhetorical, but: If a program can and does cut recidivism in half, should it be considered; OR don't even bother to find out what it would cost?
Yeah, the details are a [censored] when you make general statements. How about an "Amen" to that?
MSDS, SHO-shop Y, custom 2.5" catback; xcal2; 63mm TB, K&N 3530; Koni struts, Aussie bar; THaines forks, Quaife, SpecII, UR fly; DMD; Nima UD pullies; Stazi brakes; f&r Pole120 mounts. Just a daily commuter car. Silver '98 SVT E0 #3159
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Originally posted by RT and his SE:
$5.45 x 40 hours a week = $218 x 52 weeks = $11336 - 23% tax = $8728.72
I will question the suggestion that a minumum wage earner only takes 77% of earned income home.
Using Minnesota taxation, which is one of the higher income tax states.
11336 - 7800 (exemptions) = $3536 Taxable income. Fed Tax = $353. Minnesota State Tax = $190 Total income tax = $543.
Payroll Taxes are 7.65% of gross. 11336 x 0.0765 = 867.20
867.20 + 543 = 1410.20 or 12.44% of gross.
11336 - 1410.20 = 9925.80.
I will be the first to admit this is a very small income to live on, but it is above the poverty line for a single person. Other taxes are assumed to be paid as part of the income.
The minimum wage is not designed, and should not be designed for someone to raise a family on working 40 hours a week. This belief that all anyone should be expected to work is 40 hours is all nice platitudes, but there is no right to it.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Many of these programs that are referred to would actually cost less than incarceration. I believe our society views long prison terms as an overly convenient way to punish criminals. A correct (and much quicker and broader) application of the death penalty, along with more sensible sentencing guidelines for many offenses (drug use offenses is a leading cause of prison overcrowding where treatment is more assured of success at a lower cost).
The government's crusade to throw more money at all the problems in the world is just as lacking detail as my comments to reduce the cost of government. Those types of details are best reserved for numerous other threads at other times.
As a blanket statement, I believe there needs to be an assurance that the money government already has is spent efficiently on all levels before they ask for more.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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Originally posted by svtcarboy:
The minimum wage is not designed, and should not be designed for someone to raise a family on working 40 hours a week. This belief that all anyone should be expected to work is 40 hours is all nice platitudes, but there is no right to it.
Exactly what I was saying in my post. If you have put yourself in a place in life where you are forced to support a family at minimum wage, then maybe your family planning decisions need to be looked at closer. It is certainly possible for 1 person to make it on $10,000 a year, but like I said, it will take sacrifices including maybe working 2 jobs, finding a roomate to share rent, etc.
As far as welfare goes, there are times in everyone's life that we need help. Thats what welfare is for. However our welfare systems in almost all states rewards you for working less, having more kids, and being a lazy bastard. If we all believed in Moore's way of life, we would all be working to support eachother, no one getting ahead of anyone in life. Communism at its best right there. I think the title of that movie "Michael Moore Hates America" is very accurate. Moore hates what this country was founded on; hard work, making a better life for yourself, and self sufficiancy.
"Moore has also accused the American people of being the stupidest, most naive people on the face of the Earth. And after last weekend, he's got the box office numbers to prove it!"
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Originally posted by svtcarboy:
Originally posted by RT and his SE:
$5.45 x 40 hours a week = $218 x 52 weeks = $11336 - 23% tax = $8728.72
I will question the suggestion that a minumum wage earner only takes 77% of earned income home.
Using Minnesota taxation, which is one of the higher income tax states.
11336 - 7800 (exemptions) = $3536 Taxable income. Fed Tax = $353. Minnesota State Tax = $190 Total income tax = $543.
Payroll Taxes are 7.65% of gross. 11336 x 0.0765 = 867.20
867.20 + 543 = 1410.20 or 12.44% of gross.
11336 - 1410.20 = 9925.80.
I will be the first to admit this is a very small income to live on, but it is above the poverty line for a single person. Other taxes are assumed to be paid as part of the income.
The minimum wage is not designed, and should not be designed for someone to raise a family on working 40 hours a week. This belief that all anyone should be expected to work is 40 hours is all nice platitudes, but there is no right to it.
An extra $100 a month oh boy now we can have food! 
99 Contour Sport SE MTX
KKM filter, B&M shifter
No res, BAT kit
Green car silver hood (because silver is faster)
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Derek
Scion xB 5-spd
Previous: 2000 Silver Frost SVT
Please share the road with cyclists.
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caltour - I don't like Moore's films because they can be easily mistaken as truth, which they should not be taken as. I love his films because they make me think good and hard. Davo - I respect you and your opinions. I am merely replying to your comments. Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
Originally posted by caltour:
He is in favor of such things as housing for low income people and the homeless,
Translation: He is a socialist.
What's wrong with that? One could also call him a humanitarian.
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
Originally posted by caltour:
closing tax loopholes for offshore corporations,
Translation: He is in favor of making things more expensive here, in order to restrict capitalism.
No. There's no good reason as to why people who make bukoo bucks should receive special taxation benefits. Just because they can afford expensive lawyers means they get to slip through the cracks? F*ck that.
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
Originally posted by caltour:
cleaning up the environment and preserving open space,
Translation: He uses this view to promote anti-capitalism.
I don't think it's anti-capitolistic to preserve our natural landscapes and responsibly use our precious and finite resources. There's gotta be a happy medium between using the resources (capitol gains) and conserving.
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
Originally posted by caltour:
providing day care for children of working parents,
Translation: Socialism, once again. Not to mention the destruction of families he's in favor of by supporting this view.
Again, what's wrong with being a socialist? He has every right to have socialist viewpoints.
I'm not familiar with the families he'd destroy. Could you please explain that for me?
Derek
Scion xB 5-spd
Previous: 2000 Silver Frost SVT
Please share the road with cyclists.
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Originally posted by svtcarboy:
Off topic: Where's the Fab5 when you need them? Michael Moore desperately needs help in dress and grooming, and a few social graces wouldn't hurt him either.
LMAO! Yes, he certainly could use a good grooming lesson!
Originally posted by svtcarboy:
The minimum wage is not designed, and should not be designed for someone to raise a family on working 40 hours a week.
That's an interesting point, James. I had never thought about that. Unfortunately, there are far too many trying to do so!
Originally posted by svtcarboy:
As a blanket statement, I believe there needs to be an assurance that the money government already has is spent efficiently on all levels before they ask for more.
Agreed. I don't want my tax dollars going to food stamps so people can buy doughnuts and snickers. Unfortunately, to assure that the money is appropriately spent...there's gotta be some sort of gov't agency to do so. D'oh!  
Derek
Scion xB 5-spd
Previous: 2000 Silver Frost SVT
Please share the road with cyclists.
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While Moore embelishes in his "documentaries," his main purpose is not to lie and portray the information he's showing on screen as "truth." I really feel that Moore wants you to watch his movie(s), think about 'em, and investigate for yourself. Anyway, that's my take on his stuff. I know it's not all true, so I don't take it to be.