|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,960
Hard-core CEG'er
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,960 |
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
....... We have found many WMDs in Iraq. You just haven't seen the reports because the media has been busy reporting the Abu Ghraid prison "scandal". ....
Bolding by me.
Prove it.
A Fox news link or item will suffice.
Bless our servicemen & women overseas.
L.Cpl Ian Malone, 1st Battalion Irish Guards, R.I.P.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198 |
Originally posted by MarkO:
Prove it.
A Fox news link or item will suffice.
Haha 
sigma proved my point that the WMDs we find over there have to be of some special kind to count as actual WMDs. So I could spend my time and go and find news stories (I never saved them on my desktop, sorry  ) of evidence of WMD in Iraq, but I'm sure a grand story (like sigma's) about why they don't count as WMDs would follow.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 28
New CEG\'er
|
|
New CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 28 |
Anybody can take a bunch of film footage, cut it up, delete sections and arrange them in a different order to take things out of context to skew the view and advance an ideology. At least that's what he did with Columbine. It wouldn't surprise me if he did it again with the latest movie.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 28
New CEG\'er
|
|
New CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 28 |
"ASTANA, Kazakhstan ?? Russia gave the Bush administration intelligence after the September 11 attacks that suggested Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq was preparing attacks in the United States, President Vladimir Putin (search) said Friday. " "Information that lieutenant colonel in Saddam??s Fedayeen was ??a very prominent member of al Qaeda? has reached 9/11 bipartisan commission - according to member John Lehman in NBC??s Meet the Press. If confirmed, he said, Cheney was right and panel would modify final report to reflect evidence reversal." Originally posted by PA 3L SVT:
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
I don't see how wishing for someone's death is indicative of a lack of open-mindedness. I wish Osama bin Laden was dead. Damn that's close-minded! There are some people I see as harmful to others, whose departure from this Earth would benefit a great many people.
Helz yeah I want OBL dead. Not because I disagree with his views, but because he was responsible for the deaths of 3000+ innocent people.
To think that only agreeing with your views serves the betterment of mankind is pompous. To think that anyone who disagrees with your views should be dead for the betterment of mankind is completely self-centered and despicable. To think that you are in any position to determine who should live and die for the betterment of mankind is frightening, actually.
Here's a point: I can name one very prominent person who belives that all people that don't agree with him should be put to death. His name is Osama bin Laden.
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
Not to make this thread into an argument about the Iraq War, but.... 1) the 9/11 Commission has nothing to do with the Iraq War, even though the media is trying to make you think its great revelations do in fact have something to do with the war.
Wow, you are terribly ignorant. The 9/11 commission has been charged with directly investigating ties between al-Queda and Iraq and found none. Iraq's ties to A-Q was a central point in Bush's argument for war now and it seems there aren't any credible ties at all besides A-Q trying to establish some relationship and Iraq ignoring them.
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
2) We didn't go to war based on the faulty intelligence, again, even though the media is trying to make you believe we did.
So, what, Tenet and Clark are making this up? And Tenet lied to a congressional committee? I guess the fact that Clark isn't a Bush yes-man anymore makes him less credible in your book.
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
3) We have found many WMDs in Iraq. You just haven't seen the reports because the media has been busy reporting the Abu Ghraid prison "scandal".
Wow, oh wow. You don't think that O'Reilly and Limbaugh (and Tony Blair and Pres. Bush) would be shouting it from the rooftops if we had found some? I seem to remember that when the troops found 'suspected' WMD sites, it was all over the news, until tests showed they weren't what they first appeared to be.
And here's a problem with your argument that Moore should have released Abu Gharib abuse photos as soon as he had them: You damn him for not releasing them. You damn the media for covering the scandal. So, if holding the images is wrong, and releasing the images is wrong, what exactly should be done?
Nobody should hold views that cannot stand in the presence of dissent. Fortunately for you, this country is founded on the premise that all people are free to believe what they want, and free to present their views in an open and fair forum. So continue to believe what you want to believe, but to become a more complete person you really should allow yourself to let those views be tempered with those that are in opposition to them.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220 |
Quote:
sigma proved my point that the WMDs we find over there have to be of some special kind to count as actual WMDs. So I could spend my time and go and find news stories (I never saved them on my desktop, sorry ) of evidence of WMD in Iraq, but I'm sure a grand story (like sigma's) about why they don't count as WMDs would follow.
If "special" means "actual sanction-violating weapons" then, yes, you need to find some "special" ones.
2 shells. A whopping 2 shells, that our own military and the Bush Administration have discounted as being any sort of proof of a WMD program, are proof enough for you, then I'm happy that you're opinion doesn't count for anything.
By your wonderful reasoning if I walked over there, placed a WMD in the sand, and pointed it out to a US soldier, it's all the proof we needed that Iraq continued to develop WMDs after imposed sanctions.
Please, tell me how a shell produced before the Persian Gulf War is proof that Iraq continued to develop WMDs after the War. I'm really interested in how you reach that conclusion.
Before you go off spouting loads of crap, I suggest you read the entire news stories. And, please, as others have asked, post links to these stories you say exist showing that we've found "many" WMDs. I'd love for you to make me eat crow on this.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198 |
And by your interpretation, you can have all the WMDs you have space for, as long as you didn't have programs that developed them.
This is actually all moot. Say we never find "the right kind" of WMDs, what does it really matter?
Last edited by Davo7SVT; 06/21/04 04:27 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220 |
Quote:
And by your interpretation, you can have all the WMDs you have space for, as long as you didn't have programs that developed them.
There are 2 seperate arguments here:
1> That Saddam continued to develop WMDs after imposed sanctions. This is the big one. This is primarily what the Bush Administration wants proof of because it's the most significant unsubstantiated (so far in concrete evidence) claim that they made.
2> The Saddam hid stockpiles of the weapons he was supposed to destroy under UN rulings.
Obviously, finding a weapon made ~1990 doesn't support any argument that he continued developing weapons after the Persian Gulf War.
And the military has determined that the shells found were very likely misappropriated or misplaced shells from the many movements or armaments that Saddam made. In other words, they're not proof of any sort of stock-piling because there were found on a one-off occasion, were placed by lone rebels who likely just came across a single shell somehow, and were used in such a way that the person who placed them did not appear to know what they had (sarin-tipped shells as opposed to regular shells).
Quote:
This is actually all moot. Say we never find "the right kind" of WMDs, what does it really matter?
Doesn't matter a damn to me. Politically, it's huge. It matters a HUGE deal to the Bush Administration. If they could find it, November is in the bag, and the US regains a great deal of cred in the international community.
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,143
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 3,143 |
Originally posted by Davo7SVT:
And by your interpretation, you can have all the WMDs you have space for, as long as you didn't have programs that developed them.
This is actually all moot. Say we never find "the right kind" of WMDs, what does it really matter?
By the right kind do you mean any WMD produced in any time period? If say we found a russian nuke that was 30 years old in Iraq does that mean Iraq was producing them? I don't think so, same could be said for these Sarin gas shells that were/are 15?! years old
As far as Moore and documentaries go, I hope some of you realize that just because there is factual information presented and it doesn't agree with your political ideals that it's still a documentary. Furthermore, while I am a fan of Moore and his works they must be taken with a grain of salt. This is true for virtually all media, anyone who doesn't question this stuff and/or makes their own decision is just letting the world brainwash them.
"Bros before Hoes" <-- More men need this mentality.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,198 |
Originally posted by sigma:
Doesn't matter a damn to me. Politically, it's huge. It matters a HUGE deal to the Bush Administration. If they could find it, November is in the bag, and the US regains a great deal of cred in the international community.
I don't think it's as big a political issue as some may wish it was. People forget that we have several UN resolutions that say Saddam has WMDs in his possession and at one time had several WMD-building programs running. Even the liberals in America were saying he had them and that he needs to disarm. They said this as recently as 18-24 months ago. It's puzzling how they now doubt he ever had them. There's that tricky hindsight again.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469 |
Originally posted by sigma:
He is a great filmmaker. And the stuff that he makes has superb entertainment value, especially his older not-so-right-hating stuff like TV Nation and Awful Truth.
He was also great as "FAT BASTARD" wearing a Scottish kilt in that Austin Powers movie...Oscar worth performance, heard he lost 100 lbs for the role!
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
|
|
|
|
|
