|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469 |
It certainly is a stale argument but I think it would be wise to examine this societal standard "revision" in the Scandinavian countries were this has played out a few years. My understanding is that divource rates in Demark have increased substantially (I've heard 80%) in recent years, though I have not really examined this, and may be incorrect. I have no time now to research this now but if anyone has a bit of time it may be interesting..
Certainly gay marriage has no impact on the "individual" traditional marriage, I agree. But I also agree with the point made earlier that more people are getting married for "self" reasons...less about others (children). I understand this..as "me" has become our collective nature but I regret the impact it has on the children. Gay couples have had a higher partner "turnover rate", and I think this will continue into marriage. However, will NOT be the ROOT cause of the increase in divource...rather selfishness and immaturity. So in the broad sence, I think gay marriage is not the problem but perhaps a symptom of a big problem. So I guess I have no strong oppinion on this one as we have BIGGER issues that need addressed. Our declining standards and expectations for marriage in general ARE big problems and the price will be born by the children.
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,220 |
Quote:
Why shove a square peg in a round hole? It IS different, so why not call it that? I don't think there's a ton of overt discrimination against couples of any persuasion (man/man, woman/woman, man/woman) that are simply living together, so I don't see a cultural backlash against those that would be "unioned" or whatever moniker one would wish to use.
I don't necessarily disagree with your JaTo -- it is "different" than what has been the culturally accepted 'norm'.
But I know people, and people, for some reason, take offense at being 'different'.
If people can find the statement: "My black friend Justin is cool" offensive. I know they would find the differentiation of "My unioned friends Steve and Joe" offensive. So people will refrain from saying it. They'll stick with whatever moniker works in the group that they're in. So, at say a Republican Party Convention (to use a vast generalization) they'll use the term "Unioned". But in general public or on the evening News, most people are going to use the most "politically correct" term -- and that would be to somehow avoid the terms 'marriage' or 'unioned' entirely, or to just go with the word that avoids potentially hurting someone's feelings.
So, call it whatever you want, it'll still be called a "marriage" by 95% of the people 95% of the time.
But, hey, maybe if you use the word and make it seem like such a bad thing, then the homosexuals will pick it up and begin using it themselves much like another minority group and a certain derogatory expletive. 
2003 Mazda6s 3.0L MTX
Webpage
2004 Mazda3s 2.3L ATX
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,166
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,166 |
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
Gay couples have had a higher partner "turnover rate", and I think this will continue into marriage.
Without numbers, I would have agreed with you on this point. However if you look at the Survey posted above, I was surprised at the demographic of people getting married. These are people in the middle of their life that have been together for long periods of time. I don't see these people as having a higher turnover rate.
http://www.boston.com/news/specials/gay_marriage/articles/2004/05/18/survey/
To me, these numbers actually show couples that are committed to eachother, and are not making a mockery of marriage.
- Zack
WANTED: T-Red HEATED Side Mirrors
FOR SALE: 4 14" Alum Alloys and Nearly New Avid H4s Tires w/ Center Caps
2000 T-Red SVT
1995 LX V6 MTX (RIP)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,469 |
I am a little surprised too. You're right, the group is older and nearly 1/2 report being together 10+ years. I think that group is committed...
I am not sure the group represents a cross section of future "typical" gay couples getting married. I do want sometime to look at the Sandinavian experience in some detail. But I am willing to keep an open mind.
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,986
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,986 |
Originally posted by PackRat:
I move to change the name of Massachusetts to Homochusetts.
And to the people lamenting the intolerance. [censored] you. I'm sick of being required to "tolerate" every freak of nature that comes down the pike.
Grow up!
I'm sick to death of "tolerating" stuffy a$$ republicans!
Suck it Trebek! And by Trebek I mean Seaegee!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,899
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 4,899 |
Originally posted by Mushu:
Originally posted by PackRat:
I move to change the name of Massachusetts to Homochusetts.
And to the people lamenting the intolerance. [censored] you. I'm sick of being required to "tolerate" every freak of nature that comes down the pike.
Grow up!
I'm sick to death of "tolerating" stuffy a$$ republicans!
This is me giving a hoot about your opinion....... 
Ever notice how those who preach "tolerance" are intolerant of people's opinions that aren't the same as theirs? Funny that.
Last edited by PackRat; 05/18/04 05:42 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 552
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 552 |
Originally posted by 00SVT:
then why isn't anyone protesting to make divorce illegal? I mean, didn't you stand before God and some priest and make a lifetime commitment to someone "for better or for worse, until death do us part"?
I think they tried adding that to the constitution already, like 1914 or something...didn't work then either. I know (assume) you were being sarcastic or just making a point, but I thought I'd respond anyways.
2000 Black Contour SVT
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 839
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 839 |
I want to get married to my dog. I love her. Who cares if we get married, its none of your business.
Feel the same way now, or did you "tolerant" hippies suddenly think that idea was completely out of line? Not so tolerant now that the idea goes against your personal beliefs, now are you? What makes that taboo and illegal, while gay marriages aren't? Don't tell me they're completely different, the idea is the same.
Maybe you could change dog to sister, or mother, or 3 women. Maybe even a vibrator, some people get really emotionally attached to them.
The Spickle
New Car: Infra Red '04 FSVT
Former Car: Black '98 CSVT, #3137/6535 "The Unluckiest car.. ever"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 682
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 682 |
Originally posted by SpliceVW:
I want to get married to my dog. I love her. Who cares if we get married, its none of your business.
Feel the same way now, or did you "tolerant" hippies suddenly think that idea was completely out of line? Not so tolerant now that the idea goes against your personal beliefs, now are you? What makes that taboo and illegal, while gay marriages aren't? Don't tell me they're completely different, the idea is the same.
Maybe you could change dog to sister, or mother, or 3 women. Maybe even a vibrator, some people get really emotionally attached to them.
I'd start with getting the dog some human rights first. Then to those inanimate objects you choose to marry.
Once their gender is the only thing keeping them from marrying, we can talk..
98.5 Contour SVT
"Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country"
--US President George W Bush
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 552
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 552 |
I'm going to have to disagree. Getting married to your dog. At least not with today's technology. Let's say you die and your dog gets half. How do we know what your dog wants to do with it or who the dog wants to leave the money to when it (he/she) dies? I don't speak dog. At least with another queer, you'll probably have some idea.
And yes, it doesn't have to be a dog or vibrator, there are cases where people are incapable of stating their intentions as well, but whatever.
Oh and the ideas are completely different anyway (regardless of what you do or do not want me to say). Tell me how same-sex marriage is bad. and moral reasons are opinion. Try to give me some facts. I want to hear them.
Oh, and good point daenku. Only thing separating these people is gender, kinda like race (an amendment that couldn't pass even in 1912).
2000 Black Contour SVT
|
|
|
|
|
