Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Common Interests Ok conservatives, George Will gets it.........

Originally posted by spgoode:

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Those articles are quite old. the fist two are from the time we initially found the trailers, and we know that at that time we would find "WMD's" everyday, and later find out it was bogus.

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Give me a break. The article's ages have NOTHING to do with the FACT that some of the trailers found had dual-purpose equipment TOTALLY unrelated to hydrogen balloon refilling attached to them and that they had been meticulously CLEANED by the one thing that would destroy just about any biological agent.

If you are going to try to next convince me that Iraqi's are borderline neurotic in terms of cleanliness, save your breath.

Originally posted by spgoode:

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However I will concede that we can't be sure they were not used for making biological weapons. Here's a more recent article where David Kay sounds pretty convinced that they were not.

"And Vice President Dick Cheney cited discovery of two semi-trailers in Iraq as "conclusive evidence" that Iraq "did, in fact, have programs for weapons of mass destruction."
Here's David Kay on that canard: "When you look at those two trailers, while they had capabilities in many areas, their actual intended use was not for the production of biological weapons."

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36854

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I was waiting for you to take this approach. Here's Kay's testimony to the CIA. EDIT: Sorry, House and Senate Intelligence Committees.

Read it, you might learn something other that what you pick up from CNBC:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html

Check the middle for the discussion on the mobile labs. Kay's final words on this topic were:

"That said, nothing we have discovered rules out their potential use in BW production."

From the horse's mouth and under sworn testimony, not some reporter throwing loaded questions to illicit the sensationalized responses they want...

Also know that a number of other veteran inspectors found that although those trailers weren't ideal bioweapon facilities, they were capable and would serve their purpose just fine. They weren't built for ease of use; they were built for concealment, which often forgoes comforts and "best practices"...

Comments?

Originally posted by JaTo:

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The most important of these contacts that the US gained was Hussein Kamal:

http://usatoday.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&expire=&urlID=4894507&fb=Y&partnerID=1660

More on Kamal (God do I hate using the Washington Post as support):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A23545-2002Jul30?language=printer

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Originally posted by spgoode:

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This has nothing to do with the alleged biological weapons trailers.

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I NEVER said it did, as the INC didn't have much to do with the alleged bioweapons trailers either, or much anything to do with the intelligence on them for what I've read or heard. Where are you getting that the INC was solely responsible for the mobile WMD labs intel, or are you ASSuming it was only from them?

You actually think the CIA only gets it's intel on Iraq from ONE source???

The INC hasn't been the ONLY resource that the CIA used in intelligence-gathering in Iraq and that many of them have turned over valuable and accurate intelligence, where as you seem only content to throw up only that which supports your mainstream media-fed assumption. I don't doubt for a minute that the CIA was spoon-fed a load of s**t by a number of informants and defectors. Sifting the good and bad intel is the very nature of their job and existance, which is precisely why there were two camps inside the US intelligence community that were at odds with each other on the uses of these trailers. Again read Kay's report on what has been turned up by his past investigations. A number of those finds were done through informants...

Tangent: Before Somalia in '93, intel experts refused to believe that an RPG could take out a UH-60. A simple 45 degree blowback tube that could be made out of scrap turned these anti-tank weapons in to helicopter-killing armaments, something they weren't EVER designed to do.

Point: Typical lab types refuse to believe that those weapons labs could produce any quality strain of biotoxin in an easily-accessible and easily-created fashion. The fact stands that the equipment for biotoxin production was ON BOARD those trailers and they had been BLEACHED clean of any possible evidence, which you've still been totally silent on. I have been SHOWN an example where thick sheets of saran-wrap like material could seal those things up tight as a drum and using a water-extraction method in a damn washtub could prevent ANY spread of the biotoxins outside those trailers...

S**t. Any meth cook worth half their salt and a little bit of training could culture a crude form of anthrax in a matter of weeks using commonly-available items you can get from Home Depot, a chemist supply shop and the grocery store. Whether it would take to the human respiratory system or not is where things get tricky in terms of effectiveness, as it's a matter of sizing the spores right (so I've been told).

The point is that some REALLY serious crap has been developed in conditions as bad if not worse than what those trailers held.

Anyway...

Originally posted by spgoode:

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Hussein Kamal defected nine years ago and gave information on WMD programs going on at that time. The inspectors neutralized these programs.

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Really? You're certain of this when Kay himself said that he had unearthed a lot of dual-nature programs that udner his estimation, were going on right up until the US-led invasion? Better call him and let him know this, then.

Originally posted by spgoode:

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The issue here is did Sadam have an active program at the time we invaded and was the administration duped by more recent defectors.

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It's obvious that they bought some of the BS that was being sold (Al-Qaeda links, African Uranium, though MI6 still hasn't backed down from this one like the US has) and that Iraq didn't have a ready WMD program that would immediately effect any invader of the size that was surmised. At the same time, there already is enough evidence to conclude that limited development was going on and TONS of circumstatial evidence that points to crash programs being thrown together before the invasion.

Regardless, I must conceed that there exists no "smoking gun" or 100% hard physical evidence on WMD, despite piles of broken hard drives, destroyed computers, burnt documents and a "clensing" effort by Iraqi's that would make an embassy under attack proud, in terms of removing evidence...

...or the fact that tons of agents are still missing from UN tallies to this day.

Quote:

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It would seem that blinders are in fashion this year.


Well, at least if Kerry gets voted in, you'll know that no matter what side of any issue you stand, Kerry will be right there to back you up, 100%.

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Originally posted by JaTo:

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Originally posted by spgoode:

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However I will concede that we can't be sure they were not used for making biological weapons. Here's a more recent article where David Kay sounds pretty convinced that they were not.

"And Vice President Dick Cheney cited discovery of two semi-trailers in Iraq as "conclusive evidence" that Iraq "did, in fact, have programs for weapons of mass destruction."
Here's David Kay on that canard: "When you look at those two trailers, while they had capabilities in many areas, their actual intended use was not for the production of biological weapons."

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36854

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I was waiting for you to take this approach. Here's Kay's testimony to the CIA. EDIT: Sorry, House and Senate Intelligence Committees.

Read it, you might learn something other that what you pick up from CNBC:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2003/david_kay_10022003.html

Check the middle for the discussion on the mobile labs. Kay's final words on this topic were:

"That said, nothing we have discovered rules out their potential use in BW production."

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Originally posted by UPSTART-SVT:

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Quote:

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It would seem that blinders are in fashion this year.


Well, at least if Kerry gets voted in, you'll know that no matter what side of any issue you stand, Kerry will be right there to back you up, 100%.

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Thats really funny and really scary at the same time!?!?!


Vote Bush

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