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Gearhead, you need to learn to read or something. The UCMJ is proactive. You're absolutely right about that. But that's not what you said was a proactive action. What you said was: Quote:
...the military removed those bad seed from the system and started an investigation and charged the perpetrators in January. How's that for proactive?
That is not a proactive approach. That, by very definition, is 100% reactive.
Apparently the laws set forth by the Geneva Convention and a full understanding of the UCMJ and of the repercussions was not given the priority that it should have been. That is proactive.
At least take the proactive stance of telling people how friggin' stupid it is to take pictures.
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Because we DEMAND that our Soldiers are heald to a HIGHER STANDARD.
And by stating it that way, it implies you're talking about ALL soldiers when it was a very very few who committed this misconduct.
How in the hell do you get that implication out of that sentence?
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Originally posted by gearhead:
......... And I'm sure that you don't think the disciplinary action which was immediately taken once this misconduct was reported and the resultant PROACTIVE investigation didn't prevent these types of abuses from recurring. .........
The alleged abuse was reported in January. So far, charges have been brought against 7 of those involved and charges against 2 of those were brought the other day. Is that your definition of 'immediate action' ?
Bless our servicemen & women overseas.
L.Cpl Ian Malone, 1st Battalion Irish Guards, R.I.P.
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Originally posted by deftoned989:
...... But the fact that it has caused a large percentage of the US population to scrutinize our own military when in fact we should be behind them 100%. ....
We do support our troops 100%. Scutinizing the small number that are involved in these incidents does not mean we tar all of them with the same brush.
Bless our servicemen & women overseas.
L.Cpl Ian Malone, 1st Battalion Irish Guards, R.I.P.
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Originally posted by Speed Demon:
no, the military took plenty of action, the DoD even TOLD the media they were investigating this crap back on Jan 16 i believe it was. it wasnt a story then though, they couldnt sensationalize the evil tyrannical america with photos of a few twits having sadistical fun.
Your right, the Military did investigate this back on January 16th. They wrote a report, and Rumsfeld had it in hand for 2 Months and didn't read it until the pictures were brought to the public. What action was taken after the investigation????
That's like saying. "Ok, we now know Why the gas tanks in pickup trucks invovlved in rear end accidents blow up. Have a nice day." And then never actually fixing the problem.
Originally posted by Speed Demon:
Additionally, you are an assclown for levying the charges of rape. the British 'rape' photos have been proven to be fakes, as has a set of American ones, these are the only alleged rape accounts in the press. You ought to be ashamed.
I'm quoting Rumsfeld himself. There are pictures of sodomy as discussed by Rumsfeld, and the various individuals that viewed 1800 pictures yesterday behind closed doors. How much more evidence do you need here?
Additionally as for murder, the no number's cause of death is still unknown, People have had heart attacks, strokes, emballisms being questioned by the police department. Wait for the facts before you conjure up [censored]. IIRC the only other murder case involved a guard and an iraqi prisoner throwing rocks at him. The guard was certainly out of line to light the bastard up...
He admitted there were beatings and deaths in some of the pictures. Also, do you think maybe those "heart attacks, strokes, emballisms" may have occurred while the guards were disregarding the Geneva Convention? If these prisioner deaths were infact accidental, I'm sure the military would be the first to release that information! These prisioners are dead, and died while in the hands of the US Military! How they died is an important issue, but based on the current evidence of the treatment of soldiers, its incredibly logical to connect the dots here. Need to borrow my pencil? In fact, they are even looking into 2 prisoners dying in the hands of contract interrogator. What the hell is a contract interrogator???
Originally posted by Speed Demon:
Innocent until proven guilty is how we do it here.
Last time I checked, Military court is the other way around. Oh, and ask the prisioners if thats how its done. Don't even get me started on the Guantanamo Bay situation. It may be how its done for US CITIZENS, but has never been that way for the rest of the world, or the military.
Its very clear that someone is loosing an arguement when they resort to personal insults. All of the information I've provided has been stated by the media. All you're going on is speculation. "But but but they might have died by another means..." Stop your whining and start presenting facts. Sure, its a possibility, but lets be a little more realistic.
- Zack
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I'm not talking just about the media coverage about this situation, I'm mean in general. I do blame (not for the berg killing) the soilders in on the abuse of the Iraqi pisioners. They were clearly wrong in what they did. I have never said anything differnet, but I don't think it gives the green light to all the wacko's of the world to kill U.S. citizens or anyone else for that matter. How do we know how many of those pictures are real? We've all see what photoshop can do on this site. I've heard some are fakes.
I well never understand how strapping on a bomb and blowing up a school well ever help any cause. Why kill people cause there a differnet reliqon than you, or there from the west?
All I want is some reporting done about the good news, thats all.
Plus, I think it's weird that the pictures come out now it being an election year and all.
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Quote:
Plus, I think it's weird that the pictures come out now it being an election year and all.
It's not like these pictures were taken 10 years ago and just resurfaced.
They were taken (by all accounts) this year. When do you expect them to come up? Next Year?
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Quote:
Additionally, you are an assclown for levying the charges of rape. the British 'rape' photos have been proven to be fakes, as has a set of American ones, these are the only alleged rape accounts in the press. You ought to be ashamed.
The charges of Rape, Sodomy, and Homicide have been levied by Rumsfeld himself.
You ought to be ashamed for defending something you obviously don't know a damn thing about.
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Originally posted by CarpePoon:
This thread is going to be a long one 
Was I right or was I right?
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Originally posted by sigma:
At least take the proactive stance of telling people how friggin' stupid it is to take pictures.
You're right about that...it was stupid for them to take pix and not expect them to get out.
Originally posted by zgendron:
Because we DEMAND that our Soldiers are heald to a HIGHER STANDARD.
[qoute=gearhead]And by stating it that way, it implies you're talking about ALL soldiers when it was a very very few who committed this misconduct.
Originally posted by sigma:
How in the hell do you get that implication out of that sentence?
You're also right about that....I realized that was not implied last night after I posted but it was too long after to edit it out.  And yes, the disciplinary action was by definition reactive, but I felt that the investigation was a little of both reactive and proactive. Reactive for obvious reasons, proactive because it most likely prevented anyone else from engaging in such unacceptable behavior. I just think there's been waaay to much made over this and everyone just needs to let the various investigations go where they may and get back to the business of defeating the terrorists.
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