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Originally posted by sigma:
Stupid Media.
How dare they say anything negative!
There's a marked difference between objectively showing the facts in light of their relevance and impact to their surroundings, then there's orchastrating and reporting those facts in such a fashion as to be entirely one-sided and sensationalizing them to the point where it's "infotainment" and not "news"...
Two guesses which one is going on here, though you'll only need one.
I can't count the number of news spots on the "bad" news that comes out of Iraq, where I can't think of but one or two "good" news spots on ANYTHING that covers Iraq...
EDIT: I'm NOT saying that the troop abuses shouldn't have been reported and dealt with harshly (quite the contrary) but the media has run such a blisteringly NEGATIVE campaign on this that there's no hope of recovery.
Odd that you don't hear how thousands upon thousands of Iraqi troops are being clothed and fed better than they were under Hussein's command.
Last edited by JaTo; 05/13/04 10:09 PM.
JaTo
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Originally posted by JaTo:
I can't count the number of news spots on the "bad" news that comes out of Iraq, where I can't think of but one or two "good" news spots on ANYTHING that covers Iraq...
But this is ALL news, not just Iraq. When do you ever hear about a Politician that did good? However if he had a run-in with the cops, you'd sure know about it.
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That's precisely my point. Most of the media in this country and in many others are nothing more than vultures and jackals that circle the dead carcasses of events; they are only attracted by the rotting stink of today's latest tragedy or misfortune instead of anything remotely positive or uplifting.
Hell, I'd settle for a 70%-30% mix of bad/good news in programs today as it's been so damn skewed to report on the bad.
It's not entirely their fault, either. I'm not ignorant to that fact.
The audience that they serve has been their barometer of what to push out. It's a sad commentary on society...
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Originally posted by zgendron:
Originally posted by UPSTART-SVT:
you are so right. About all of it. Thats the problem the media doesn't think about what can happen all they want is ratings. Make the U.S. look bad great for ratings. Showing the true side of the enemies of the free world not so good for ratings.
Hey, the media is CLEARLY not the one to blame in this situation. If you want to place blame, its on the soldiers that committed these acts, and then were dumb enough to take pictures of these WAR CRIMES, and the send them to their friends! You tell me who's to blame?
The military took NO ACTION for a period of 2 months AFTER a report on the incidents was filed. Do you think the BEATINGS, RAPE, and MURDER would have stopped on its own?
I understand you're upset, but how is this possibly the medias fault?
The media is OBVIOUSLY to blame for this because look what it has done to the country. People shifting attention from what should be happening in Iraq and it's rebuilding to scrutinizing our own military.
And don't snap back asking me if what those soldiers did was right or wrong. What happened in that prison was wrong but this is a horrible time to bring the issue to light, especially to the US public and the world. Screw whatever the terrorists construe this issue to be for them, whether it "rationalizes" killing more soldiers and civilians, they'll do that anyway. But the fact that it has caused a large percentage of the US population to scrutinize our own military when in fact we should be behind them 100%.
Basically, investigate the "atrocities" after the "war" is over so that it doesn't sway a single person from fully supporting our troops.
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Originally posted by deftoned989:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Originally posted by UPSTART-SVT:
you are so right. About all of it. Thats the problem the media doesn't think about what can happen all they want is ratings. Make the U.S. look bad great for ratings. Showing the true side of the enemies of the free world not so good for ratings.
Hey, the media is CLEARLY not the one to blame in this situation. If you want to place blame, its on the soldiers that committed these acts, and then were dumb enough to take pictures of these WAR CRIMES, and the send them to their friends! You tell me who's to blame?
The military took NO ACTION for a period of 2 months AFTER a report on the incidents was filed. Do you think the BEATINGS, RAPE, and MURDER would have stopped on its own?
I understand you're upset, but how is this possibly the medias fault?
The media is OBVIOUSLY to blame for this because look what it has done to the country. People shifting attention from what should be happening in Iraq and it's rebuilding to scrutinizing our own military.
And don't snap back asking me if what those soldiers did was right or wrong. What happened in that prison was wrong but this is a horrible time to bring the issue to light, especially to the US public and the world. Screw whatever the terrorists construe this issue to be for them, whether it "rationalizes" killing more soldiers and civilians, they'll do that anyway. But the fact that it has caused a large percentage of the US population to scrutinize our own military when in fact we should be behind them 100%.
Basically, investigate the "atrocities" after the "war" is over so that it doesn't sway a single person from fully supporting our troops.
You can't be serious.  The fact is matter is these "acts" should not have never been done in the first place. The officals at the Pentagon are not mad for what they done. They are mad because they got caught. There is old saying. "The ones who are victorous are the ones who write history." Do you really think they would tell the public about what went on in that prison if pictures never got out? Please, don't be so damn naive.
Last edited by Antonio; 05/13/04 10:41 PM.
Now I hate America? That is a new one to me.
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Originally posted by zgendron:
Originally posted by UPSTART-SVT:
you are so right. About all of it. Thats the problem the media doesn't think about what can happen all they want is ratings. Make the U.S. look bad great for ratings. Showing the true side of the enemies of the free world not so good for ratings.
Hey, the media is CLEARLY not the one to blame in this situation. If you want to place blame, its on the soldiers that committed these acts, and then were dumb enough to take pictures of these WAR CRIMES, and the send them to their friends! You tell me who's to blame?
The military took NO ACTION for a period of 2 months AFTER a report on the incidents was filed. Do you think the BEATINGS, RAPE, and MURDER would have stopped on its own?
I understand you're upset, but how is this possibly the medias fault?
no, the military took plenty of action, the DoD even TOLD the media they were investigating this crap back on Jan 16 i believe it was. it wasnt a story then though, they couldnt sensationalize the evil tyrannical america with photos of a few twits having sadistical fun.
Additionally, you are an assclown for levying the charges of rape. the British 'rape' photos have been proven to be fakes, as has a set of American ones, these are the only alleged rape accounts in the press. You ought to be ashamed.
Additionally as for murder, the no number's cause of death is still unknown, People have had heart attacks, strokes, emballisms being questioned by the police department. Wait for the facts before you conjure up [censored]. IIRC the only other murder case involved a guard and an iraqi prisoner throwing rocks at him. The guard was certainly out of line to light the bastard up...
but on the other hand my meanspirited side says any einstein prodigy dumb enough to throw rocks at a man with a machine gun needs to be eliminated from the gene pool.
You need to learn to take your banter with a grain of salt, Innocent until proven guilty is how we do it here. the only guilty souls are those guilty of humiliating prisoners (GC4) and they damned themselves by making their own evidence, open and shut case.
take this load of BS as a prime example of what happens compared to what you find in the press.
Quote:
Frauds Try to Exploit Iraq Abuse Scandal
Fallujah native Abdul-Qader Abdul-Rahman al-Ani, his left elbow wrapped in bandages, his right forearm bound in a cast, recounted how he was beaten by soldiers who picked him up last month. The soldiers tied him and two others arrested with him to a tree and sodomized them one after the other, he told journalists.
"I ask President Bush," he said. "Does he agree with this?"
As Ani, 47, repeated his story, he was interrupted by Jabber al-Okaili, a member of one of the human rights groups that organized the gathering. "He's lying," al-Okaili shouted. "He's a liar!"
Al-Ani was rushed to an office, where al-Okaili and others unwound the bandage on his left arm and found the elbow unscarred and healthy.
German TV has been showing footage of the [censored] crying on camera without the accompanying footage of the [censored].
from newsday
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-iraq-prisoners-stories,0,5805631.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines
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Originally posted by deftoned989:
The media is OBVIOUSLY to blame for this because look what it has done to the country. People shifting attention from what should be happening in Iraq and it's rebuilding to scrutinizing our own military...
It just doesn't work that way. If these actions weren't done in the first place, the media would have nothing to report.
Now, that doesn't excuse them from sensationalizing this to the point that it's inflammed Muslim extremists so much as to make a statement through hacking the head off of an American civilian. The 5 Arabs that did that aren't the only people with blood on their hands...
Hopefully the rest of the pics and ALL of the video can be kept off-air. The media has done their due dilligence and justice is being served. Wonderul, great, excellent. For them to keep pounding on this will only serve to fan the flames in an already tense environment and situation.
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Quote:
Basically, investigate the "atrocities" after the "war" is over so that it doesn't sway a single person from fully supporting our troops.
Do you actually think before you type?
I mean, seriously, sit and think about the implications of what you said. That has got to be one of the most ignorant things I've ever read in my life.
Let's just give the military carte blanche to do whatever the hell it wants to do for the next up-teen years. We'll just worry about the horrible things they did later.
Oh, soldiers are hunting civilians for sport? Ah well. Don't want any support to waver for our troops. We'll just keep that on the down-low okay.
Oh, we're operating concentration camps. No need to worry about that! Don't want people to stop waving those flags around, do we?
Oh, let me guess. You don't mean those kind of atrocities do you? You have the imaginary line between what's allowed to be covered and what's not allowed in your head. Right?
The media being there to cover the war keeps actions like that from occuring. It's one of the main reasons why media are allowed to be so close to the action -- Commanders know that the media's presence, generally, keeps them in line and conscious of their actions.
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i'm not even interested in seeing the rest of the pics. if they're any worse than what we've seen already then you'd really have to have an appetite for the sadistic to demand they be released to the news medias imo.
releasing what we've seen already was going to be good for ratings just by the nature of the situation, but without the photos i doubt justice would be served or the scope of the problem investigated.
smh @ "wait until after the war" to handle the situation. every now and then i'm stupefied by the naivity of some people.
we as americans present ourselves to the rest of the world as leaders and living by higher standards. we have to walk the walk and make sure justice is served whenever things are not right in order to retain legitimacy. it's important because our troops will not be leaving the current war zones any time soon.
americans who group all muslims together as throat slashers and terrorist who want all americans to die need to get your head out of your arse.
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Originally posted by zgendron:
Originally posted by gearhead:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Because we DEMAND that our Soldiers are heald to a HIGHER STANDARD.
If the Military took a proactive approach to this problem, we wouldn't even be discussing this now.
MORON....we're talking 12 soldiers out of 150,000!!!! Our fine military maintain the highest standards in the world. Don't impugn the many for the actions of a few! And, FYI, the military removed those bad seed from the system and started an investigation and charged the perpetrators in January. How's that for proactive? Face it, you just hate the military like all liberals..... 
Oh, and you do need to look up "Proactive" Let me help you with a link: proactive
Originally posted by sigma:
*hands gearbox a dictionary*
Now go look up the word proactive.
You can keep your link and enigma can keep his dictionary. Use them to go look up the word "regulation(s)", you know, like the thousands which were written when the military was formed and constantly updated which define the military code of conduct. Or the UCMJ which was written to deter the breaking of those regulations and to outline the punishment for doing so. Of course I guess you two geniuses wouldn't consider that as being proactive. And I'm sure that you don't think the disciplinary action which was immediately taken once this misconduct was reported and the resultant PROACTIVE investigation didn't prevent these types of abuses from recurring. Also, the evidence and the "thousands of pictures" available so far only incriminate 12 to 15 soldiers. I'm sure as more investigation is done there may be more, including some command officers.
Originally posted by zgendron:
Because we DEMAND that our Soldiers are heald to a HIGHER STANDARD.
And by stating it that way, it implies you're talking about ALL soldiers when it was a very very few who committed this misconduct.
Also, even though the actions of these few is inexcusable, one must remember that these prisoners were NOT in there because they jaywalked. This particular area of the prison was reserved for the worst of the worst according to the reports. The soldiers who committed these acts were undisciplined, acted based on emotions and will be punished for their actions.
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