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Originally posted by gearhead:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Because we DEMAND that our Soldiers are heald to a HIGHER STANDARD.
If the Military took a proactive approach to this problem, we wouldn't even be discussing this now.
MORON....we're talking 12 soldiers out of 150,000!!!! Our fine military maintain the highest standards in the world. Don't impugn the many for the actions of a few! And, FYI, the military removed those bad seed from the system and started an investigation and charged the perpetrators in January. How's that for proactive? Face it, you just hate the military like all liberals..... 
How do you know how many are involved ? How is he impugning the very, very vast majority of the troops ? 
Bless our servicemen & women overseas.
L.Cpl Ian Malone, 1st Battalion Irish Guards, R.I.P.
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Quote:
MORON....we're talking 12 soldiers out of 150,000!!!! Our fine military maintain the highest standards in the world. Don't impugn the many for the actions of a few! And, FYI, the military removed those bad seed from the system and started an investigation and charged the perpetrators in January. How's that for proactive?
*hands gearbox a dictionary*
Now go look up the word proactive.
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I understand your point now, and kinda agree with it. While 2 wrongs might not make a right, both wrongs deserve equal coverage. However, I really don't see the big deal over what happened in our prisons, and there is nothing that anyone can tell me short of mass murder that will get me to change my mind. I think these people deserve everything they have comming to them, my opinion, im not stating it as fact so don't bother arguing... -Nick
"Moore has also accused the American people of being the stupidest, most naive people on the face of the Earth. And after last weekend, he's got the box office numbers to prove it!"
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Originally posted by 99blacksesport:
I understand your point now, and kinda agree with it. While 2 wrongs might not make a right, both wrongs deserve equal coverage. However, I really don't see the big deal over what happened in our prisons, and there is nothing that anyone can tell me short of mass murder that will get me to change my mind. I think these people deserve everything they have comming to them, my opinion, im not stating it as fact so don't bother arguing... -Nick
I dont know why or for what all those people are in the prisons in Iraq. Maybe some (a lot maybe ??) are there for attacking troops, maybe some are there for general criminal activities.
If our wish is to bring US style freedom & democracy to the people of Iraq, we should be treating those prisoners the same way prisoners are treated in the US. Innocent till proven quilty. -edit- That also means we treat them with respect and with human decency until they are convicted of whatever crime they are charged with.
I see how you dont think the abuses are that much of a big deal but as someone else pointed out, they ARE a huge deal to Muslims.
Bless our servicemen & women overseas.
L.Cpl Ian Malone, 1st Battalion Irish Guards, R.I.P.
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Originally posted by zgendron:
Originally posted by Sandman333:
Including death by lowering head first into a vat of acid? Yeah, Saddam did that too.... Where was the outrage in the Muslim world then?
There you go comparing what Saddamn did. You CANNOT compare. Its like Apples and Oranges. Is it fair? Maybe not. But none the less, you can't compare.
Saddam was a known abuser of Human Rights, and we're known ENFORCERS of Human Rights. That's one of the reasons we're there, to eliminate the abuse of Human Rights. However, if we ourselves abuse our power, does it make us any better? Whose going to police our actions?
No one but ourselves. Precisely the reason we must hold ourselves to a HIGHER MORAL STANDARD.
Well, sir, if all you believe is that America's only objective is to be full Human Rights Enforcers for the entire freakin' world, then we'll be enforcing human rights far into the future...much further than either you or I will see. And it will last until there is no more oxygen to breathe, because no matter how many "good" people there are in the world, there will ALWAYS be a few bad groups of seeds out there. That has happened, is happening now, and will always continue to happen with the population of planet Earth being as vast as it is. But I'm sure you knew that already. 
And why can't there be a comparison? Not everyone in America is "good", just as not everyone in the Muslim world is "bad". I'll wholeheartedly agree that a majority of their population is a source of trouble, but that by no means says that every American existing, obviously including the US Soldiers that were abusing prisoners, is a perfect little angel. Therefore, I see your claim that an American terrorist can not be compared to a Muslim terrorist as false. 
I'm sure you've witnessed it, but SAYING we must hold ourselves to a higher moral standard is far easier than PROVING we are capable of it. 
Troll. 1997 VW Jetta MkIII GLS 5spd
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It's war! It's not pretty, it's not fun and it's played by a set of rules that there is almost no way to enforce on the battle field or in a POW camps except by the honor system. If naked hog piling is the worst that happens to these guy's and they have to go home with they're head hung in disgrace such are the fortunes of war. It could be worse.
Terrorist's know this war like the Vietnam war has a weapon that can bring the war home to America. It's TV! Most American's don't have the stomach for war especially in their living room in full color high def and surround sound. The Viet Cong knew this and you better believe that the Iraqi resistance knows this as well. They can't beat us but by using TV and our own outrage they can help us to beat our self's!
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Originally posted by gearhead:
Sir, you have my undying respect!!!
Thank you. 
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
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Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
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A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Originally posted by RT and his SE:
It's war! It's not pretty, it's not fun and it's played by a set of rules that there is almost no way to enforce on the battle field or in a POW camps except by the honor system. If naked hog piling is the worst that happens to these guy's and they have to go home with they're head hung in disgrace such are the fortunes of war. It could be worse.
Terrorist's know this war like the Vietnam war has a weapon that can bring the war home to America. It's TV! Most American's don't have the stomach for war especially in their living room in full color high def and surround sound. The Viet Cong knew this and you better believe that the Iraqi resistance knows this as well. They can't beat us but by using TV and our own outrage they can help us to beat our self's!
By most accounts, there was a lot more going on in Abu Ghraib than piling people up into pyramids. Anyway, enough with that issue. It's being investigated, it will be dealt with.
I dont think this war bears comparison with Vietnam. People wont turn on the troops the way they did then. I worked with a Vietnam vet a couple of years back and he still felt very bitter about the way he was treated when he got back Stateside. People may turn on the President for invading Iraq and sending the troops over there but the troops wont be blamed and rightly so.
Bless our servicemen & women overseas.
L.Cpl Ian Malone, 1st Battalion Irish Guards, R.I.P.
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They better not, because if I ever saw someone "boo" or chastise a troop/s, say at a homecoming parade, I'd headbutt the c@#t to the ground, Joe Pesci (in Casino) style!
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Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
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Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Originally posted by gearhead:
Originally posted by zgendron:
Because we DEMAND that our Soldiers are heald to a HIGHER STANDARD.
If the Military took a proactive approach to this problem, we wouldn't even be discussing this now.
MORON....we're talking 12 soldiers out of 150,000!!!! Our fine military maintain the highest standards in the world. Don't impugn the many for the actions of a few! And, FYI, the military removed those bad seed from the system and started an investigation and charged the perpetrators in January. How's that for proactive? Face it, you just hate the military like all liberals.....
I hardly believe there are only 12 soldiers involved. Just yesterday Military officials showed lawmakers THOUSANDS of photos that showed beatings, sex, and other acts that were considered to be FAR WORSE than the handful of pictures released to the public. In fact, its been determined that these photos are so troubling that they WILL NOT be released into the public. Most of the lawmakers were digusted an Appalled with the pictures AND VIDEO they saw. For 3 hourse they were able to view these images.
1000s of pictures and video were probably not just 12 soldiers. And how do you know how far this has gone, or who is involved?
Also, I am certainly not Anti-Military. I have some of my best friends in the military, including my college roommate who is a navigator in the Air Force (I was his Best Man). I believe that the majority of our soldiers are not involved in these heinous war crimes, and support the job they are doing in restoring Iraq. These soldiers represent us, America! And as we all know, only negative stories are posted on the news.
Just like many in the USA have taken a "I hate all Muslims (or Iraqis, or Afghanis, or any other group painted by one brush)", these acts will continue to paint a "I HATE ALL AMERICANS" picture to many Muslims.
Oh, and you do need to look up "Proactive" Let me help you with a link: proactive
- Zack
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