Quote: Nope, haven't heard of that actually, and im not saying it didn't happen.
Well Rumsfield himself admitted that it has happened. One of his key quotes: "There are other photos -- many other photos -- that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners, acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman." . He goes on to say that there's also videos that have been made. Video, reportedly (it's never and hopefully will not be released) of soldiers, both US and Iraqi Security Forces raping young boys, and raping and sodomizing female and male prisoners.
Quote: That is far from the norm though, because as you said "you couldn't find the pictures taken after that one..."
Oh come on, "that one" was a figure of speech and you know it.
I have no idea how "normal" it is. There are two seperate cases and soldiers charged with the homicide of prisoners though, and 18 homicide investigations that haven't led to charges. So at least two murders that are known about. The tales of rapes are much more common.
Quote: How many Americans were beaten, tortured, burned alive, strung out on bridges, decapitated, the list goes on of the atrocities done to us.
Too damn many, that's for sure.
But that is no justification at all for doing the same, or doing anything violent in return. You can't say "Well they did it to us, we're going to do it to them." We're supposed to be better than that.
Besides, if that's the logic you want to use, you're taking it out on the wrong people.
If you want to find the people that did those horrible things and return the favor, more power to ya. Dish out some of that 'eye-for-eye' punishment. I'll even videotape it for you myself and we can post it on al-Jazeera's website.
And, no, I'm not being sarcastic. I don't have a problem in the world with a little (or a lot of) cruel and unusual punishment -- as long as the right people are the ones on the receiving end of the stick.
Quote: I ask, where is the outrage over that?!?!
The difference is Expectations.
Terrorists are expected to kidnap people and cut off their heads. US soldiers are not expected to be defiling, raping, and beating prisoners.
Expectations by the very fact that we expect them are not "news-worthy". They don't make good and exciting news. Unfortunately the media is a private enterprise (and for good reason) and needs to make money the same as every other company. News stories that we all expect to hear don't make people watch the news.
Quote: Sadly, there is almost none compared to the outrage over what mostly was no more than fraternity hazing of the prisoners!
Again, stop comparing this to some "fraternity hazing". Comparing what the soldiers were doing to Iraqi prisoners to a hazing is like calling the beheading of this innocent man a "time-out".
Fact of the matter is it doesn't matter a damn what we here think of the incidents. I don't see it small stuff like the posing and what not as a huge issue either. But the Iraqi people do. And if the Iraqi people stop seeing us as Saviors and start seeing us as Oppressors, we're going to be in it pretty deep.
Two things to remember that not only hold true in this case, but in life in general:
1> People, and nations, are judged not by their preachings, but by their actions.
2> People forget the good things much more readily than the bad things.
A whole lot of building schools, running utility lines, providing security to establish a democratic system, etc is all flushed down the toilet when "the good guys" get caught abusing prisoners.
Quote: And frankly, I don't feel in the least bit bad that it happened to him either, he would have done it (maybe not the rape part) to us if he had the chance, and probably has too. Seeing that he was a prisoner of war, he has at least shot at U.S. soldiers.
What kind of logic is that? If he's a prisoner of war he must have shot at US soldiers? The fact that he's a prisoner and not a dead man means he's probably one of the tens of thousands of soldiers (the vast majority) that never fired a shot and were waving their white flags as soon as the US rolled across the border.
Don't you remember why it was so easy for us to get to Baghdad in the first place? Hardly anyone did fire a shot, and those that did, like the oft-mentioned Republican Guard troops largely fought to the death.
Those soldiers who layed down their rifles, who risked the absolutely horrible incomprehensible things dished out by Hussein's sons that happened to soldiers that defied orders under Hussein, were the heroes that saved thousands of US soldiers lives.
And of course some shot back. They did what any good soldier would do if his nation was being invaded. I would expect the same of any US soldier that took an oath to protect the people of the United States from any enemy, no matter what good intentions they had.
Again, just to re-iterate my point, and maybe explain it a little better and more precisely...
I don't have any problem with doing the cruelist most sadistic, defiling, hell-damning things in the world to the people that did this to Berg, would do it to any civilian contractors, or would threaten the way of life of any citizen of any nation of the world.
I do have a very serious problem with the blanket of hatred that's draped over Iraqis or even Muslims as a whole -- i.e. the "Glass Parking Lot" approach. And/Or the many people using the "He started it" or "They did it so we'll do it too" logic. We're supposed to be better than that here.
